+20 BAB Caster? [Archive] - Wizards Community

+20 BAB Caster? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
fatchuck
10-27-06, 11:11 PM Dumb question (I know), but are there any casters that have a natual BAB of +1 per level (without the Divine Power spell)? I haven't been able to find any, but then I don't have all the books either. The question is because my PC is in a gestalt campaign and I'm cross-classing with a martial rogue variant.

Thanks for any tips.
Ariath Ska'Vhor
10-27-06, 11:16 PM Duskblade is your first choice for a +1 BAB/level caster. It isn't the same kind of caster as a wizard or sorc but it is a very nice class for a martial mage. It's in the PHB2.

Other choices, although not at all primary casters but have full BAB are of course Paladin and Ranger, but also the Hexblade.
Yuri_Zhivago
10-27-06, 11:22 PM Do you mean exclusively base class casters? If not, the Eldritch Knight PrC is the standard, and I believe there are others.

Yuri
fatchuck
10-27-06, 11:36 PM Duskblade is your first choice for a +1 BAB/level caster. It isn't the same kind of caster as a wizard or sorc but it is a very nice class for a martial mage. It's in the PHB2.

Other choices, although not at all primary casters but have full BAB are of course Paladin and Ranger, but also the Hexblade.

Yep, I'm looking for a full caster since I'm playing one of 4 evil PCs in an evil gestalt campaign (we're all at level 1), and will have to help out one of my friends with casting. Luckily, I don't need access to high-level spells, just levels 1-5 for the extra spell slots the party's wizard/cleric doesn't have.

Do you mean exclusively base class casters? If not, the Eldritch Knight PrC is the standard, and I believe there are others.

Thanks, funny how this PrC's pre-requisites fit perfectly with the Duskblade's abilities. I'm set.

Chuck
Seerow
10-27-06, 11:37 PM Eldritch Knight gives nothing that Duskblade already doesn't...
Tempest Stormwind
10-27-06, 11:38 PM Dumb question (I know), but are there any casters that have a natual BAB of +1 per level (without the Divine Power spell)? I haven't been able to find any, but then I don't have all the books either. The question is because my PC is in a gestalt campaign and I'm cross-classing with a martial rogue variant.

Thanks for any tips.
In this situation? Duskblade (PHB2), hands down.

It's Int-based (you'll be using Int for your skill points as well, along with Disable Device in particular). It has numerous skills a rogue doesn't (the Knowledges come to mind, as that's often a hinderance in grabbing PrCs, if you want them).

It's spontaneous (no spellbook).

It's almost all about doing damage (something you lost from the lack of Sneak Attack), but it has some small utility effects like short-range teleportation (also great for a martial rogue).

It's full-base-attack, and IIRC it favors Fort and Will. I could be wrong on that. I do know it has a d8 HD, though.

It's proficient with all martial weapons and all armor -- although it can only cast without failure in light armor (eventually Medium armor, or heavy with Battlecaster from Complete Arcane). This is a non-drawback, as you'll be toting light armor for your Evasion ability anyway.

In short, this would be among the best combination of core classes in gestalt, in a situation where no one multiclasses.

(Seerow: EK gives you advancement of *far* more useful spellcasting. I'd rather have advanced wizard casting than any duskblade casting, any day of the week. The thing is, EK is generally there as a placeholder, increasing base attack or caster level as prereqs for other classes that are generally better, such as Knight Phantom. )
Seerow
10-27-06, 11:43 PM (Seerow: EK gives you advancement of *far* more useful spellcasting. I'd rather have advanced wizard casting than any duskblade casting, any day of the week. The thing is, EK is generally there as a placeholder, increasing base attack or caster level as prereqs for other classes that are generally better, such as Knight Phantom. )

I know, but he said that EK fit perfectly with the Duskblade, to which I asked "why?"
fatchuck
10-28-06, 12:02 AM to which I asked "why?"

Pretty simple - Eldritch Knight requires the ability to cast 3rd level Arcane spells, and to be proficient with all martial weapons. Those are two things the Duskblade class grants you without any work or blown feats at all (once you reach L10 for those L3 spells). The only downside (for gestalt anyways) is that EK has a good Fort save, while Duskblade has good Fort and Will saves to complement a Rogue's Ref save.
Tempest Stormwind
10-28-06, 12:10 AM Pretty simple - Eldritch Knight requires the ability to cast 3rd level Arcane spells, and to be proficient with all martial weapons. Those are two things the Duskblade class grants you without any work or blown feats at all (once you reach L10 for those L3 spells). The only downside (for gestalt anyways) is that EK has a good Fort save, while Duskblade has good Fort and Will saves to complement a Rogue's Ref save.
Seerow was right (and I apologize; when I posted I didn't read your post completely and took his in a vacuum), though -- choosing EK over Duskblade is, essentially, "I give up all my class features, my Will save, and one caster level for nothing I wouldn't have gotten had I taken the next Duskblade level".

I'd call that a severe downside.

Besides, hybrid classes aren't allowed in gestalt -- and the Eldritch Knight and the Arcane Trickster are the explicit examples, IIRC.
fatchuck
10-28-06, 12:17 AM Seerow was right (and I apologize; when I posted I didn't read your post completely and took his in a vacuum), though -- choosing EK over Duskblade is, essentially, "I give up all my class features, my Will save, and one caster level for nothing I wouldn't have gotten had I taken the next Duskblade level".

I'd call that a severe downside.

Hadn't thought of it like that, but you're right.

Besides, hybrid classes aren't allowed in gestalt -- and the Eldritch Knight and the Arcane Trickster are the explicit examples, IIRC.

This is my first gestalt campaign, so pardon my ignorance, but are you sure? I was told that you can take prestige classes, but only 1 at a time (can't PrC both sides of the gestalt PC at the same time). Maybe I'm misunderstanding what "hybrid classes" are? If so, what are they?
JulesCARV
10-28-06, 12:21 AM Never mind.
Seerow
10-28-06, 12:22 AM You can take prestige classes, but not classes that advance two classes at once. For example you can't take Mystic Theurge in Gestalt, because it advances both Cleric and Wizard.
fatchuck
10-28-06, 12:30 AM FWIW, for this new game I'm testing out an unused power build that I had previously created for a regular game where the PC started at level 22, based around Hide in Plain Sight using the Dark template (LA=+1) from Tome of Magic p161.

When you combine HiPS with maxed out Hide and Move Silently skills plus magical equipment that gives you +30 to H/MS (for 90,000gp per item), combined with the Darkstalker (Lords of Madness) and Spectral Skirmisher (PHB2) feats, plus a martial rogue that basically has the entire Ranged feat tree and 1,000,000gp for weapons and equipment, it's basically untouchable unless someone can make a Spot check of around 80 to find it.

That's why the Duskblade is going to be so good - all good saves, martial spell complements, and full BAB.
fatchuck
10-28-06, 12:34 AM You can take prestige classes, but not classes that advance two classes at once. For example you can't take Mystic Theurge in Gestalt, because it advances both Cleric and Wizard.

Ah, OK, thank you.
Archangel62
10-28-06, 04:29 AM Eldritch Knight gives nothing that Duskblade already doesn't...

well, you couldn't have said

Need: Since the eldritch Knight can get access to higher tier spells, not to mention having more spell options and is easier to optimize

desire/Want: See above
frasmage
10-28-06, 09:39 AM well, not exactly spellcasters as in casting spells, but both crusader and warblade (ToB) have full BAB and have maneuvers that are just as good as spells... but thats not necessarily what you are looking for
fatchuck
10-28-06, 11:29 AM well, not exactly spellcasters as in casting spells, but both crusader and warblade (ToB) have full BAB and have maneuvers that are just as good as spells... but thats not necessarily what you are looking for

Yeah, I saw those classes and they looked pretty good, but I need the casting so that my evil PC can create items with the Dark Craft and Dark Gold aspects from Book of Vile Darkness.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
fatchuck 10-27-06, 11:11 PM	Dumb question (I know), but are there any casters that have a natual BAB of +1 per level (without the Divine Power spell)? I haven't been able to find any, but then I don't have all the books either. The question is because my PC is in a gestalt campaign and I'm cross-classing with a martial rogue variant. Thanks for any tips.
Ariath Ska'Vhor 10-27-06, 11:16 PM	Duskblade is your first choice for a +1 BAB/level caster. It isn't the same kind of caster as a wizard or sorc but it is a very nice class for a martial mage. It's in the PHB2. Other choices, although not at all primary casters but have full BAB are of course Paladin and Ranger, but also the Hexblade.
Yuri_Zhivago 10-27-06, 11:22 PM	Do you mean exclusively base class casters? If not, the Eldritch Knight PrC is the standard, and I believe there are others. Yuri
fatchuck 10-27-06, 11:36 PM	Duskblade is your first choice for a +1 BAB/level caster. It isn't the same kind of caster as a wizard or sorc but it is a very nice class for a martial mage. It's in the PHB2. Other choices, although not at all primary casters but have full BAB are of course Paladin and Ranger, but also the Hexblade. Yep, I'm looking for a full caster since I'm playing one of 4 evil PCs in an evil gestalt campaign (we're all at level 1), and will have to help out one of my friends with casting. Luckily, I don't need access to high-level spells, just levels 1-5 for the extra spell slots the party's wizard/cleric doesn't have. Do you mean exclusively base class casters? If not, the Eldritch Knight PrC is the standard, and I believe there are others. Thanks, funny how this PrC's pre-requisites fit perfectly with the Duskblade's abilities. I'm set. Chuck
Seerow 10-27-06, 11:37 PM	Eldritch Knight gives nothing that Duskblade already doesn't...
Tempest Stormwind 10-27-06, 11:38 PM	Dumb question (I know), but are there any casters that have a natual BAB of +1 per level (without the Divine Power spell)? I haven't been able to find any, but then I don't have all the books either. The question is because my PC is in a gestalt campaign and I'm cross-classing with a martial rogue variant. Thanks for any tips. In this situation? Duskblade (PHB2), hands down. It's Int-based (you'll be using Int for your skill points as well, along with Disable Device in particular). It has numerous skills a rogue doesn't (the Knowledges come to mind, as that's often a hinderance in grabbing PrCs, if you want them). It's spontaneous (no spellbook). It's almost all about doing damage (something you lost from the lack of Sneak Attack), but it has some small utility effects like short-range teleportation (also great for a martial rogue). It's full-base-attack, and IIRC it favors Fort and Will. I could be wrong on that. I do know it has a d8 HD, though. It's proficient with all martial weapons and all armor -- although it can only cast without failure in light armor (eventually Medium armor, or heavy with Battlecaster from Complete Arcane). This is a non-drawback, as you'll be toting light armor for your Evasion ability anyway. In short, this would be among the best combination of core classes in gestalt, in a situation where no one multiclasses. (Seerow: EK gives you advancement of far more useful spellcasting. I'd rather have advanced wizard casting than any duskblade casting, any day of the week. The thing is, EK is generally there as a placeholder, increasing base attack or caster level as prereqs for other classes that are generally better, such as Knight Phantom. )
Seerow 10-27-06, 11:43 PM	(Seerow: EK gives you advancement of far more useful spellcasting. I'd rather have advanced wizard casting than any duskblade casting, any day of the week. The thing is, EK is generally there as a placeholder, increasing base attack or caster level as prereqs for other classes that are generally better, such as Knight Phantom. ) I know, but he said that EK fit perfectly with the Duskblade, to which I asked "why?"
fatchuck 10-28-06, 12:02 AM	to which I asked "why?" Pretty simple - Eldritch Knight requires the ability to cast 3rd level Arcane spells, and to be proficient with all martial weapons. Those are two things the Duskblade class grants you without any work or blown feats at all (once you reach L10 for those L3 spells). The only downside (for gestalt anyways) is that EK has a good Fort save, while Duskblade has good Fort and Will saves to complement a Rogue's Ref save.
Tempest Stormwind 10-28-06, 12:10 AM	Pretty simple - Eldritch Knight requires the ability to cast 3rd level Arcane spells, and to be proficient with all martial weapons. Those are two things the Duskblade class grants you without any work or blown feats at all (once you reach L10 for those L3 spells). The only downside (for gestalt anyways) is that EK has a good Fort save, while Duskblade has good Fort and Will saves to complement a Rogue's Ref save. Seerow was right (and I apologize; when I posted I didn't read your post completely and took his in a vacuum), though -- choosing EK over Duskblade is, essentially, "I give up all my class features, my Will save, and one caster level for nothing I wouldn't have gotten had I taken the next Duskblade level". I'd call that a severe downside. Besides, hybrid classes aren't allowed in gestalt -- and the Eldritch Knight and the Arcane Trickster are the explicit examples, IIRC.
fatchuck 10-28-06, 12:17 AM	Seerow was right (and I apologize; when I posted I didn't read your post completely and took his in a vacuum), though -- choosing EK over Duskblade is, essentially, "I give up all my class features, my Will save, and one caster level for nothing I wouldn't have gotten had I taken the next Duskblade level". I'd call that a severe downside. Hadn't thought of it like that, but you're right. Besides, hybrid classes aren't allowed in gestalt -- and the Eldritch Knight and the Arcane Trickster are the explicit examples, IIRC. This is my first gestalt campaign, so pardon my ignorance, but are you sure? I was told that you can take prestige classes, but only 1 at a time (can't PrC both sides of the gestalt PC at the same time). Maybe I'm misunderstanding what "hybrid classes" are? If so, what are they?
JulesCARV 10-28-06, 12:21 AM	Never mind.
Seerow 10-28-06, 12:22 AM	You can take prestige classes, but not classes that advance two classes at once. For example you can't take Mystic Theurge in Gestalt, because it advances both Cleric and Wizard.
fatchuck 10-28-06, 12:30 AM	FWIW, for this new game I'm testing out an unused power build that I had previously created for a regular game where the PC started at level 22, based around Hide in Plain Sight using the Dark template (LA=+1) from Tome of Magic p161. When you combine HiPS with maxed out Hide and Move Silently skills plus magical equipment that gives you +30 to H/MS (for 90,000gp per item), combined with the Darkstalker (Lords of Madness) and Spectral Skirmisher (PHB2) feats, plus a martial rogue that basically has the entire Ranged feat tree and 1,000,000gp for weapons and equipment, it's basically untouchable unless someone can make a Spot check of around 80 to find it. That's why the Duskblade is going to be so good - all good saves, martial spell complements, and full BAB.
fatchuck 10-28-06, 12:34 AM	You can take prestige classes, but not classes that advance two classes at once. For example you can't take Mystic Theurge in Gestalt, because it advances both Cleric and Wizard. Ah, OK, thank you.
Archangel62 10-28-06, 04:29 AM	Eldritch Knight gives nothing that Duskblade already doesn't... well, you couldn't have said Need: Since the eldritch Knight can get access to higher tier spells, not to mention having more spell options and is easier to optimize desire/Want: See above
frasmage 10-28-06, 09:39 AM	well, not exactly spellcasters as in casting spells, but both crusader and warblade (ToB) have full BAB and have maneuvers that are just as good as spells... but thats not necessarily what you are looking for
fatchuck 10-28-06, 11:29 AM	well, not exactly spellcasters as in casting spells, but both crusader and warblade (ToB) have full BAB and have maneuvers that are just as good as spells... but thats not necessarily what you are looking for Yeah, I saw those classes and they looked pretty good, but I need the casting so that my evil PC can create items with the Dark Craft and Dark Gold aspects from Book of Vile Darkness.