Post/Author/DateTime	Post
JagAgemo 12-31-06, 12:50 AM	NOTE: This class has gone thru editing many times. please forgive, and point out mistakes. "Don't worry I'll where out his sword with my flesh!!!" "It's a shame you elves have such sort life spans" Skills: Autohipnosis, Bluff, Climb, Craft, Diplomacy, Disguise, Escape Artist, Handle Animal, Heal, Hide, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge(any one knowledge), Listen, Move Silently, Ride, Sense Motive, Spot, Survival, Swim, Tumble. Skill Points: at first level: (4 + int) X 4; after first level: 2 + int Hit Die: D12 Table: Survivor Fort, Ref & Level BAB will saves Special DR 1st +0 +0|+2 Meat Shield, Best at... 1/- 2nd +1 +0|+3 Mettle 1/- 3rd +2 +1|+3 Meat Shield 2/- 4th +3 +1|+4 Uncanny dodge 2/- 5th +3 +1|+4 3/- 6th +4 +2|+5 Heavy Evasion 3/- 7th +5 +2|+5 Courage, Heavy strike 4/- 8th +6/1 +2|+6 Regenerate body 4/- 9th +6/1 +3|+6 Aura of crisis, Fast healing 2 5/- 10th +7/2 +3|+7 Adaptive energy resistance 5/- 11th +8/3 +3|+7 Improved uncanny dodge 6/- 12th +9/4 +4|+8 Spell resistance (10+HD) 6/- 13th +9/4 +4|+8 7/- 14th +10/5 +4|+9 Fast healing 3 7/- 15th +11/6/1 +5|+9 Unearthly Grace 8/- 16th +12/7/2 +5|+10 Improved Heavy Evasion 8/- 17th +12/7/2 +5|+10 Impetuous Endurance 9/- 18th +13/8/3 +6|+11 Oppressive SR 9/- 19th +14/9/4 +6|+11 Fast healing 4 10/- 20th +15/10/5 +6|+12 Indistructable 10/- Religion: Survivors tend to discredit most religions because they have lived before several religions have started, "dude, he was just a carpenter, I mean really, I knew the guy... he made me a chair". This does not stop them from believing in gods of' course. Alignment: Any Special: A character must be alive to take this class. Armor and weapon proficiency: The Survivor is proficient with all simple weapons; light, medium and heavy armor and all shields including tower shield. Best at...: Pick one save from either fort, ref or will treat this save as a bad save and the other two as good saves when taking the survivor class. Meat Shield(Ex): The survivor may elect to place him self in the path of danger in order to protect a comrade or anyone else from danger. Any time that a survivor is within his natural reach (min 5ft for medium and smaller) of a comrade, and his comrade suffers an attack, the survivor may switch places with him and receive the attack in his place. The survivor can use this ability against any sort of attack that requires an attack roll. The survivor can also ready a move action specifying the ally to run towards and defend, or the opponent he will fallow and defend it's victim. In any case the survivor can not defend some one who is out of the range of his land speed; though he may ready a longer action to gain X2, X3 or X4 (with the run feat) his land speed. The survivor can only get in the way of one opponent to defend one ally. He must declare this before the attack roll is made. At 3rd level the survivor can an get in the way of any number of opponents but he can still only defend one ally per round. Mettle(Ex): as the Hex blade ability. Uncanny dodge(Ex): As the rouge's ability. Heavy Evasion(Ex): As the rouge's Evasion ability but can be used even when wearing heavy armor, but not carrying a heavy load. Courage: Knowing fully well he could survive nearly anything the survivor becomes immune to fear and all fear effect. Heavy strike(Ex): At 7th level the survivor gains his first and only offensive ability. whenever the survivor deals damage with a weapon, natural weapon, unarmed strike or any other attack that would be affected by size (melee and range); it deals damage as if it were one size larger. The weapon doesn't actually grow nor dose he gain the ability to use larger weapons, he just deals damage as if they were one size larger. This ability stacks with any other effect that would do anything similar (e.g. Improved Natural attack feat, gold or platinum weapons, Empty Hand Mastery feat, actually using larger weapons, etc.). Regenerate body(Ex): The survivor can now reattach or re grow lost body parts as though he had regeneration. Unearthly Grace(Su): the survivor adds his charisma modifier to all saving throws and as a Morale bonus to AC. Aura of Crisis(Su): Foes within 10ft/3 levels of a Survivor become increasingly aware of their own mortality, and believe the Survivor's destruction is key to their own survival. Foes within the area of effect must make a Will Save equal to 10+1/2 Survivor level + Cha Mod to take aggressive action against anyone except the survivor. Foes must be some how aware of the survivor's presence or are not affected. This ability is suppressable at will as a free action (but is only really off during down time) Adaptive energy resistance: At 10th level a survivor gains resistance to energy damage. the survivor can have resistance to fire, cold, acid, electricity or sonic damage but only one at a time. The amount of resistance is equal to: survivor's level/2 (round down). This resistance last until the survivor chooses a different type of energy but to do so he must meditate for 1 minute (10 rounds). Improved uncanny dodge(Ex): As the rouge's ability. Oppressive SR (12 + HD) This works like his normal spell resistance but if it manages to stop an area spell the spell is completely and utterly negated. the survivor must decide to use this ability before rolling to find out if the spell was stopped or not. Improved Heavy Evasion(Ex): As the rouge's Improved Evasion ability but can be used even when wearing heavy armor, but not carrying a heavy load. Impetuous Endurance(Ex): As the Knight's ability. Indestructible: Having learned and mastered the secrets of immortality by learning from those who claim to be immortal -such as liches (good and evil) and necropolitans- the survivor takes it in to his own hands to gain immortality and not just a mockery of life. He takes the rituals one step further and gains his new indestructibility better than anyone else. The survivor can now preform a ritual to make a Phylactery; like a lich he must pay 120,000 GP and 4,800XP to make it (he doesn't need to have the 'craft wonderers items' feat) and an additional 1,000XP to avoid becoming a lich (a normal character can not preform this ritual in ANY way only a 20th level or higher survivor can.) The Phylactery works in every way like a liches Phylactery (it gives off a weak aura of the same aliment as the survivor). It takes 1D6 hours rather than 1D10 for him to be fully resurrected. if the survivors body is completely destroyed (to a point the his regeneration no longer works, such as by a disintegrate spell), it takes 1D10 days for the survivor to be resurrected. The survivor gains some immunities of an undead except as noted here: a survivor is still subject to mind affecting abilities, sleep, Paralysis, stunning, Necromantic effects, Ability Damage, Subdual Damage, and must continue to make fortitude saves normally. Unlike a lich a survivor keeps his constitution and his normal hit die. The survivor gains immunity to poison, Disease and Death effects and is not subject to Critical Hits, Sneak Attack, Ability Drain, Energy Drain, or Death From Massive Damage. He no longer needs to eat or breath but can if he wishes to, the survivor must still sleep normally. A survivor can no longer die from old age an is immune to any and all aging effects. After completing this ritual the survivor type changes to outsider with a native subtype. this change only affects racial hid die, racial saves and racial skill points but not any class levels. Ex'survivor: A survivor who looses it's constitution score can no longer gain levels in the survivor class and looses the Fast healing, Regenerate abody, courage, Aura of crisis, Oppressive Spell resistance, Unearthly Grace, Impetuous Endurance, and the indestructible abilities he might have gained from the class. If a ex'survivor regains his constitution score he may continue to advance in the survivor class and regains the lost abilities after advancing one level of survivor. Multiclassing Survivor: A survivor that multiclasses has special rules. If added together his other classes (including PRCs) are greater than 1/4 of his survivor level he looses his, courage, Aura of crisis, Regenerate body, Oppressive Spell resistance turns in to normal Spell resistance, fast healing (if any) is halved (round down), DR is only 1/4 of what if should be (round down), Heavy Evasion turns in to normal Evasion, his Improved Heavy Evasion turns in to normal Improved Evasion; until the sum of his other classes is no greater than 1/4 his survivor level. Roll: The survivor is truly THE meat-shield and little else. Because of his lack of damage dealing his best place is next to a wizard taking it for the team, survivors also make surprisingly good scouts, having both the spot and listen as class skills and the abilities to back it up they can go nearly anywhere with a high chance of coming back alive. This is the 1st time I ever post on Wizards and this is the 1st 20lvl class I make (so I expect it to be unbalanced^_^). that said Input please:shifty: :shifty:.
Krusk 12-31-06, 01:18 AM	Why d8 hitdie for this class? seems like a d12 would be much more suited. you didnt explain evasion, uncanny dodge, mettle, "Impruved evation", or a bunch of other abilities. You should at least put as equivilent of the rogue ability. to make sure there is no one thinking it is anything better. SR 10+hit die is huge. You might consider reducing it to 5+HD. But you could keep it, because this seems to be the main thing the class has going for it. Might consider 3 good saves, they are supposed to survive "anything". An idea, why not grant a class based AC bonus that increases by levels. Just to make them a little harder to kill. Also, as they are supposed to be a meat shield. Consider adding the ability from the knight class, where you can take damage for your adjascent ally. for regenerations, why not just give them fast healing say 3, and the ability to regrow lost limbs. instead of saying they are wearing an item without the item. The way written leads to thinking you are out a ring slot because youve got a ring of regen.
Engilbrand 12-31-06, 01:21 AM	Hmmmm..... It's WAY too easy to dip into. 2 levels for Evasion? You'll have a TON of people looking to do that, then they're out. Hell, even the first level stuff rocks. There was a 5 level PrC from Savage Species that did a little of this back there in 3.0. Have you looked at that? It sucks, but I could see turning what you've created into a workable and decent 5 or 10 level base class. Problems: He's a tank with medium armor, a buckler and a d8 hit die? Not so much? Those would need to be improved. Just good Fort should suffice. Maybe Ref, too. Why would a character like this ever have a good Will, though? Clarify the Regeneration. He already has the healing ability, why give him more? Give him the ability to regrow a missing limb on himself once per month or something so that it's not super ridiculous. There's a reason that few things get Fast Healing. Starting at level 9, this character wouldn't even need the Cleric if he was given a minute or two. My last complaint is probably my biggest one: Please, please, please, please, please clean it up. The spelling really gets in the way. A lot of the abilities are taken from prominent parts of the books: look at the abilities and correct things as necessary. Must it be perfect? No, of course not. But there are a number of people who really get hung up on spelling and stop reading. I almost did.
JagAgemo 12-31-06, 01:47 AM	D8, 2 good saves, no AC bones, etc. I admit to be a power gamer not a munchkin... I like being balanced and making fights fun (but fighter IS just weak and a wizard IS overpowerd)IMO. The regeneration thing (OK I was lazy on that). I'll get on it. I know of the Prc from SS. It's where I go the idea ^_^ But I just think it had more potential than 5 lvls (maybe a 10lvl Prc... but still, I would like it to be a 20lvl class) Evasion...rogue? They CAN get it at 2nd level! rogue ups: sneak attack, a ton of skill points (even more if taken at 1st lvl), more skills (good skills), trap finding, you don't loose class abilites (Courage in this case) regardless of anything you do (loose the Con loose the class -abilites-). survivor ups: D8, 2 good saves, Fast movement, Courage look like a even chose if your in it for just the 2 levels (but I would go with the rogue my self, but it really depends on the build) OK sorry about the 'engrish' Spanish is my first language and don't I have spell checker. I'll go back and fix what I can. Really your language when spoken is easy and reading is ok BUT THE SPELLING!!!!! AAAAARRRGGGG !!! sorry... T_T OK spelling check regeneration check other stuff checkers (me thinks so anyway)
JagAgemo 01-03-07, 07:43 PM	I came back after a few days and noticed a few spelling errors and fix' em. more importantly what I was really looking for were opinions on balance, something like: I think is balanced, but you could... or It's unbalance because... even you don't expect me to like this **** do you? I'm really not trying to make something Uberpowerd. like giving him never ending Timeless body (as the 9th level psion power)... though that would be cool as a 1/day thing:angelhide :schemes: :devil: Naaaaa...maby...NO!!!
PoorHobo 01-03-07, 08:56 PM	Reminds me of the paladin from WoW. Sure it can wander around the battlefield and hit things but nobody pays any attention to it because it can't pull agro in PVE and can't do any damage. (At least this was true abouty 6 months ago when I stopped playing.) Role: The survivor is truly THE meat-shield and little else. Because of his lack of damage dealing his best place is next to a wizard taking it for the team, survivors also make surprisingly good scouts, having both the spot and listen as class skills and the fast movement to back it up they can go nearly anywhere with a high chance of coming back alive. While the abilities aren't overpowered, the class fails because of this. It fails in its stated role. 90% of the time a survivor is going to be a medium creature that stands in a 5ft square and threatens the 5 feet around it you aren't shielding anybody's meat. If they want they will go right around you and do whatever they please. Why would anybody attack the useless husk standing next to the Wizard when they can just attack the wizard? This class has no direction beyond, I want to survive. Your abilities do not help a party overcome challenges at any level. It can't find and remove locked doors and traps, can't do anything in a fight against a standard CR, can't even really be a party face even with the diplomacy skill (witch makes no sense)
JagAgemo 01-04-07, 01:28 AM	You do make a very good point(s). and I considered giving him the "Harm's Way" ability from the 3.0 devoted defender (SaF) or something like that, but at the moment I really didn't want to give this class even more than it had. And if I did that the class would no longer stand true to its name, rather than survivor I would call it defender... not a bad Idea... then give him the Body Switch(Su) ability from the keeper (P.111 FF)but as and immediate action to protect your comrades from area spells (supposing you would otherwise not be affected, etc.) but that would be a giving him an additional 2 abilities and changing the name to defender. Well Wizards IS the place I go to when it comes to balance SO... would this be overpowered (survivor + Harm's way+Body switch), and more importantly is defender a retarded name?
benstundze 01-04-07, 04:12 PM	bold and underline things....... ben
CaoSlayer 01-04-07, 04:30 PM	no defensive roll? This class screams for it. Also an auto-stabilize wounds or die hard would be nice.
JagAgemo 01-04-07, 04:55 PM	OMFG everyone I know that know anything about DND is goan flip when they find out the people at wizards said the class NEEDS MORE. Supposing I add defensive roll what level should I put it at? but even then I'm not sure if you could use defensive roll when using Harm's way wouldn't that make it to powerful??? Body switch and Harm's way same question (what lvl should they be at?). I would like this class meet it's roll and 'shield da meat'. and auto-stabilize wounds? what do you mean by that exactly? die hard is a feat, if you really want it, take it. not to be rude but the class can survive nearly anything as is and the fast healing would almost over shadow it. although I can imagine a survivor trying to runaway from danger long enough for him to be out of the negatives, so it would go with the class but it realy is just a balance issue. >>>PEACH<<<
Realms of Chaos 01-05-07, 12:22 AM	By autostabilizing ability, he means that you automatically stabilize when knocked below 0 hit points. My suggestion, give them diehard as a bonus feat at 3rd level, replace their single (and rather out of place) offensive ability with one that allows them to get on with less food and water, take away their martial weapon proficiency (this guy is trying to stay alive, not kill the threat), and don't allow multiclassing.
JagAgemo 01-05-07, 01:14 AM	Y no multiclassing? every class I know that can't multiclass sucks, why? YOU CAN'T MULTICLASS!!! don't get me wrong I would play this the whole 20 lvls but just knowing that I can't multiclass makes me want to, and it's even more frustrating sense no multiclassing means no Prcs. your right about the proficiency though and I will change that right now. take away their only offensive ability? this would mean that even though you couldn't be killed you still couldn't win. this is because It(everything) sill needs some (no matter how small) attack power any class that can't do 'some' damage is an NPC class. I'll move the offensive ability to a different level if there is really no other solution but not take it away. as for the autostabilizing ability, if I remember the rules correctly as soon as you get any type of healing you are stabilize (that or a DC 15 heal check) thusly as soon as fast healing kicked in (which would be as soon as your turn arrived) you would be stable, one could say he has an implied autostabilizing ability at 9th lvl. about the no eating thing, a ring of sustence is only 2,500GP you can afford it at 7th lvl (less then 1/3 your character wealth by level). Now if your going to say "then Y not just give it to them" it is because of this: why dose a fighter get a sword? or a bow? this class just like any other offers stuff that is in other ways nearly unattainable through GP. (this is my powergamer side talking [I DO WANT BALANCE]) a ring of regeneration on the other hand is 90,000GP an would not be affordable until lvl 16 (guess at what lvl you get regeneration?) an even still my version is weaker then having an actual ring (but it is Ex) ^_^ why dose a monk get nunchucks? that's right because they both look cool but suck for actually hurting someone. but that's just a side note. as for the defensive roll, Body switch and Harm's way abilities I would really like to hear where you think I should put them. Thanx for the comments! keep'em coming!
travellersside 01-05-07, 09:16 AM	A very weak class. Sure, give it another huge pile of defensive abilities - it will still be weak. Why? Because, as has been already observed, it can't do anything! Not being dead isn't a good enough class ability. The vast majority of characters without any of these abilities manage to 'not be dead' on a daily basis. Characters rarely die. Sure, it happens, but it's not so common that you give up everything in order to remain alive. An important question: Can this class actually survive an encounter? Let's see. Skills are okay. Nothing especially useful, but not the worst skill list I've ever seen. Hit points: appalling. D8 doesn't cut it. He needs a D12. As is, he will die due to lack of hitpoints. Armour proficiencies: Why not heavy? Lose the fast movement, allow heavy and change evasion to the ability that the Divine Oracle has which duplicates evasion, but can be used in any armour. Unearthly Grace: While it's nice to ad Cha to AC, since this is a deflection bonus, it doesn't stack with one of the most common ways of boosting AC - Rings of Protection. To be honest, this should be a morale bonus. Damage Reduction: It only goes to 5? That's nothing. Monsters do so much physical damage that losing just a handful of points off each attack is almost meaningless. Combined with his poor HD, the Survivor simply... won't. Regeneration & Fast Healing: The Survivor doesn't get regeneration. Call the ability 'Regrow Limbs' or something. Regeneration is the ability to only suffer subdual damage, no matter what the source or how hard it hit. There is always a weakness, however - usually acid and fire, although others are certainly possible. His Fast Healing will simply mean that he doesn't need to heal outside combat. In combat, since most encounters are over within 5 rounds, that means that his healing doesn't have any impact. Spell Resistance: While this is nice, it only comes online at level 17, and it's only HD+10. By this time, almost every enemy will be able to cast spells in some form or another. The majority of these have a caster level of at least their CR. As such, your best case scenario is a 50/50 chance of your SR kicking in. If they're a serious spellcaster, they will almost certainly have Spell Penetration, which will drop your success rate significantly. Also, by 17th level, very few enemies will be using single target spells, which means that, even if you aren't afected, everyone else will be. So, it contributes to keeping you alive, but it's not especially useful, just nice. (SR of HD+5=worthless, +10=okay, +15=good) By the way, his 20th level extension of adaptive energy resistance? Very bad. He doesn't have enough hit points already. Now, in order to not suffer damage from a speculative source, he effectively takes damage from the first hit before he even begins adventuring. At level 20, if you want a decent resistance, it had better be at least 20. So, knowing that you're going up against a white dragon, you take 20 pts of damage, in order to gain Cold 20/-. During the combat, which lasted the usual 5 rounds, it used its breath weapon once, inflicting normal damage-20 on you. However, since you've already taken damage to use this ability, it didn't have any practical effect. To be useful, the dragon would need to breathe at least twice. If you're fighting a dragon, you're doing your best to stop it getting a second breath off, since although you may be happy, your friends won't be. To gain additional energy resistances, you pay double? Why? It's horrifically expensive. To gain a second energy resist 20 costs a total of 60 hp. And this doesn't even give you comprehensive coverage - there are plenty of other energy types that can be used against you. By the way, as it is currently written, this ability doesn't stack with the regular adaptive energy resistance, thus making it even less useful. At level 20, you have 20D8+Con hp. That's a base of 8 + 19*4.5 = 93.5. So, let's be a dwarf, with a base Con of 15+2. With a +5 from wishes and another +6 from an item, that's a total hp of 253.5. That's, um, not very many. Now, we'll put that level 20 survivor into his meatshield role against a white dragon Wyrm (CR 19). With a BAB of 33, Str 35 and WF (not counting spells to boost combat ability) the dragon's natural attacks get a +46/41 to hit. In other words, unless you have a very high AC, you can expect them all to hit. Assuming that this happens, taking your DR into account, you take an average of 104 damage. (This is only with Improved Natural Attack. If you grab the Draconomicon, this can ratchet up significantly) You'll survive 2 rounds, but not a third. Amusingly, a barbarian in the same situation has the same DR, but 38 additional base hp. When he rages, he gains another 80, guaranteeing him a third round's survival, and if he's very lucky, he might pull off a 4th. In other words, as a meatshield, your Survivor is incapable of outlasting a barbarian. This is not a good thing - he should be at the very least equal. During your 3 round life expectancy, you won't have done anything significant to help your party members, so they'll have to do all the work themselves. In fact, since it seems that you can't do anything, it turns to your companions and mangles them instead. As such, you've only bought them at most 2 rounds, wheareas, if you'd done something useful yourself, you'd have made their jobs significantly easier and kept it focused on you. You aren't even able to absorb more damage than a fighter-type, since you have less hp to start with. The phylactery ability is of limited use. Why? Well, let's first assume that the phylactery is completely safe. It won't be, of course, but we'll ignore that for the moment. When (not if) you die, assuming that your companions want you to be returned to life, they can either put everything on hold, waiting 2D10 (and possibly another 1D4) then, having retrieved you, they can continue their extremely delayed mission, or they can use a normal True Resurrection which brings you back right now. You're level 20. So are they. Which choice do you think they'll make? It does mean that a TPK is much harder to achieve, but the DM should never allow a TPK in the first place. In fact, it's more likely that there will be a TPK, since everyone knows that you can try to bring them back. This is not beneficial to the group in any appreciable way, since it encourages carelessness. In order for a class to be worth taking, you have to be able to pull your own weight. There has to be something that you do. You can't fight, can't cast spells and can't cover the necessary skills (apart from Facework, for some odd reason) Sigh Okay. Here's some suggested changes: Increase HD to D12. Change the SR so that, if the spell is resisted, the entire spell dies, which means that your companions won't be affected either. Poisonous flesh - anyone who takes a bite out of him needs to make a fort save or suffer some effect. Probably Con damage. True Regeneration, coming online at level 8, merging Fast Healing into it to become Regeneration X. Your weakness is fire. Acid blood - anyone adjacent to you who injures you takes acid damage: 1D6 per 5 levels. No save. Change the Unearthly Grace AC Deflection bonus to being Morale. Add some sort of mechanism so that monsters are forced to attack you, otherwise they'll just ignore you. DR of 1 per level. Change the phylactery resurrection to one that means that your corpse just heals and resurrects on the spot in 1D6 hours. If your body is annihilated, it reappears by the phylactery 1D10 days later. Liches are perfectly capable of appearing to be in perfect health - it's all down to how much care they're taken of their bodies after they died. No need to take any longer just because you aren't undead. Provide a scaling energy resistance thatdoesn't have to be paid for. Allow Adaptive Energy Resistance to stack on top of it. These changes will mean that you have a decent chance of survival. Even so, you'll be weak, since you need some offensive ability. The current one, Heavy Strike, only gives another 1 or 2 pts of damage per hit. With a med BAB, that's completely worthless, since you'll rarely connect.
JagAgemo 01-05-07, 03:36 PM	haven't finished adding every thing, but something came up so I'll add the rest later.
JagAgemo 01-05-07, 04:50 PM	OK I made the most of the suggested changes Let it be known that If it is overpower or broken or whatever, I was mearly doing what I was told and I was told it was weak Edit: Not throwing blame around, I'm just as guilty (if their is any guilt) for doing as told. I made shur he could accomplished his roll from lvl 1 (Meat Shield) and I figured this is really a back draw for any other class so I don't think I would be a balance issue. on that note I also made it so Unearthly Grace gives him an attacking bonus so he could his something once in a while (please tell me if I did wrong) travellersside thanx for saying it as it is. I took 90% of your advice and smacked it in to the class. So this it mostly the same class just alot more junk added to it. Please anyone comment on it. only then will I know.
Daxen 01-05-07, 05:06 PM	There are a few things that don't make sense to me. Why does this class have fast movement? I see nothing that makes this a non full BAB class. Fort Save should be a good save regardless, they can pick the second. Improvement ideas: They should have an ability that causes them to do more damage and/or get the hell out of dodge as they get hurt. Fight or Flight: There are times when pure instinct is what saves the survivor. System: For every 10 points of damage a Survivor has taken in an encounter he may add +1 to damage or +1 Circumstancial bonus to AC. If this damage is healed in anyway the bonus is negated They should have an Aura that forces enemies to attack them as opposed to the rest of the party. Aura of ***** : Foes within 10'/3 levels of a Survivor become increasingly aware of their own mortality, and believe the Survivor's destruction is key to their own survival System: Foes within the area of effect must make a Will Save equal to 10+1/2 Survivor level + Cha Mod to take aggressive action against anyone except the survivor. Gaze of the Undying: A Survivor of 15th level can instill despair in the hearts of his foes with his gaze. As they look into the eyes of the Survivor they see their own bodies wasting away and their children growing old and dying. Few survive the experience with anything resembling a whole mind, and those who have describe it as a dull throbbing ache in the soul. System: 1/day a Survivor of atleast 15th level can Gaze into the very soul of his foes and give them but a glimpse of what eternity is. The target must make a Will save equal to 10+CL+CHA or take a 3d6 penalty to a Mental Stat of the Surivor's choosing. This power requires absolute concentration and has a max duration of 1 round/5 levels. This increases to 2/day at 17th and 3/day at 20th. Those changes should make it better at it's job. Gaze of the Undying is really wierd and probably a bit too powerful but hey I am just trying to brainstorm.
JagAgemo 01-05-07, 05:57 PM	Why does this class have fast movement? OK that's several people that think fast movement is retarded (but it seemed like a good idea at first) I see nothing that makes this a non full BAB class. Fort Save should be a good save regardless, they can pick the second. I will answer this with a another quote... ok I have no Idea how to do that... but It's because this class is trying to make him self and his companions survive not kill the enemy (stop or slow the enemy shur). As for the Fort I'll change it really only makes sense. I'll change that in a sec. Improvement ideas: :eek: ...shur no one has said it is overpowerd...yet...:D They should have an ability that causes them to do more damage and/or get the hell out of dodge as they get hurt. Fight or Flight: There are times when pure instinct is what saves the survivor. System: For every 10 points of damage a Survivor has taken in an encounter he may add +1 to damage or +1 Circumstancial bonus to AC. If this damage is healed in anyway the bonus is negated Not a bad Idea But I will not add it unless anyone (ANYONE) tells me where to put it (lvl by lvl I'm no longer shur of balance any more, the class is to unique to compare) EDIT: what about fast healing and regeneration? the ability would go away as soon as his turn came. They should have an Aura that forces enemies to attack them as opposed to the rest of the party. Aura of ***** : Foes within 10'/3 levels of a Survivor become increasingly aware of their own mortality, and believe the Survivor's destruction is key to their own survival System: Foes within the area of effect must make a Will Save equal to 10+1/2 Survivor level + Cha Mod to take aggressive action against anyone except the survivor. hmmmm... I was hoping Meat Shield would take care of that... and this ability would be more of a benefit than Meat Shield (cuz your distracting them not just taking someone else's blows) maybe at a higher level 15ish? Gaze of the Undying: A Survivor of 15th level can instill despair in the hearts of his foes with his gaze. As they look into the eyes of the Survivor they see their own bodies wasting away and their children growing old and dying. Few survive the experience with anything resembling a whole mind, and those who have describe it as a dull throbbing ache in the soul. System: 1/day a Survivor of atleast 15th level can Gaze into the very soul of his foes and give them but a glimpse of what eternity is. The target must make a Will save equal to 10+CL+CHA or take a 3d6 penalty to a Mental Stat of the Surivor's choosing. This power requires absolute concentration and has a max duration of 1 round/5 levels. This increases to 2/day at 17th and 3/day at 20th. Just a tad overpowered really "3D6" takes out most orcs or orclike stupid things.(I can't remember if you die from having a 0 on a mental stat), but still a very cool idea... *finishes reading* OK it 'only' make you helpless. but it would still make it a save or die ability in many situations. how about 2D6, 3/day? this way it at least takes a lucky roll to take mentally weak down. *thinks about it* wait this is a very hardcore caster killer!!! on a side note if i allow this (AKA other people tell me it's fine and I blindly agree with them) any other survivors that had access to this ability would be immune to it. MMM... Peach
JagAgemo 01-05-07, 07:53 PM	I've decided to add the aura (and called it 'Aura of Crisis' just a funny thought when your in the midlife you want everone who has a better life than you or looks better for his age than you to suffer lol)
Krusk 01-05-07, 09:22 PM	I have to agree with basically everyone that this class is really underpowered. my comments in bold Increase HD to D12. definatly need this Change the SR so that, if the spell is resisted, the entire spell dies, which means that your companions won't be affected either. cool idea, and actually makes him good at defending Poisonous flesh - anyone who takes a bite out of him needs to make a fort save or suffer some effect. Probably Con damage. I guess... i wouldnt add this True Regeneration, coming online at level 8, merging Fast Healing into it to become Regeneration X. Your weakness is fire. I like this, but instead of the weakness being fire, make them pick an energy type so not all survivors have the same weakness Acid blood - anyone adjacent to you who injures you takes acid damage: 1D6 per 5 levels. No save. anyone adjacent to you takes the damage, if you really want this ability at all. Change the Unearthly Grace AC Deflection bonus to being Morale. make it an unnamed bonus. they need something good Add some sort of mechanism so that monsters are forced to attack you, otherwise they'll just ignore you. some varient on knights challenge would work DR of 1 per level. yes Change the phylactery resurrection to one that means that your corpse just heals and resurrects on the spot in 1D6 hours. If your body is annihilated, it reappears by the phylactery 1D10 days later. Liches are perfectly capable of appearing to be in perfect health - it's all down to how much care they're taken of their bodies after they died. No need to take any longer just because you aren't undead. Provide a scaling energy resistance thatdoesn't have to be paid for. Allow Adaptive Energy Resistance to stack on top of it. add something forbiding them to pick their weakness as the energy they are resistant too. Also I would suggest adding all good saves. they are survivors, they should be able to survive.
JagAgemo 01-05-07, 10:07 PM	Done and done (but I left it as a moral) Unholy S***!!! I was just pointed out that at 20lvl after a survivor does the Indestructible ritual he is no longer subject to Subdual Damage so any thing they did to him would be pointless because of Regeneration. How do I solve this?! Should this be solved?!
marrithl2 01-06-07, 01:45 AM	I really like the idea of this class. I have been toying with it for quite some time myself. Your ideas are good, but you need to remember to make your classes balanced. I don't want to come in and tell you how to play or anything and I don't want to tell you it sucks. I really like this class a lot. I just feel that you need to make a lot of changes to make it playable and on an even playing field with all the other base classes. It is with this in mind that I give you this suggestion. I will be keeping an eye on this thread to see how you take my advice. Either way I'm saving my post for myself because I feel that it is complete. Please be open when reading this revised survivor class. ~Marrithl2 Survivor Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special Damage Reduction ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1st +0 +2 +0 +2 Meat Shield 1/- 2nd +1 +3 +0 +3 Evasion 2/- 3rd +1 +3 +1 +3 Uncanny dodge 3/- 4th +2 +4 +1 +4 Fast healing 1 4/- 5th +2 +4 +1 +4 Ignore Damage 5/- 6th +3 +5 +2 +5 Tough Defense 6/- 7th +3 +5 +2 +5 Mettle 7/- 8th +4 +6 +2 +6 Fast healing 2 8/- 9th +4 +6 +3 +6 Courage 9/- 10th +5 +7 +3 +7 Regeneration 3 10/- 11th +5 +7 +3 +7 Aura of crisis 11/- 12th +6/1 +8 +4 +8 Fast healing 3 12/- 13th +6/1 +8 +4 +8 Improved uncanny dodge 13/- 14th +7/2 +9 +4 +9 Improved evasion 14/- 15th +7/2 +9 +5 +9 15/- 16th +8/3 +10 +5 +10 Fast healing 4 16/- 17th +8/3 +10 +5 +10 17/- 18th +9/4 +11 +6 +11 18/- 19th +9/4 +11 +6 +11 Timeless body 19/- 20th +10/5 +12 +6 +12 Indestructable 20/- Hit Dice: d12 Skill Points: 2 + Int Skills are fine Proficient with all shields since he's taking tons of hits. A tower shield might be a little too much, but I would allow it. Changes: Besides moving the special abilities around: +10 BAB because he is a meatshield, not supposed to be fighting much at all. Good Fortitude and Will because he needs to survive those pesky save or die spells, but reflex is not part of his forté since he'll be wearing heavy armor and such. Meat Shield has two options; as a full action the survivor can delay his turn in order to switch positions with his companions moving a maximum of his run speed. If the survivor does anything during their turn other than delay to use the meat shield manuveur, he can only switch positions with ONE adjacent foe per round. Damage reduction might as well be changed to an all out level/- instead of this level 3 business. Unearthly grace is a silly thing to add to this class. However, an AC bonus is in the taste of the class so I would add Tough Defense, which adds your constitution bonus to AC instead of your charisma. I would also make this switch to the aura of crisis ability. Since your CON is going to be much greater than your CHA, it will benefit you more and makes more sense anyways. Regeneration 5 AND Fast healing 4 is an INSANE comnination. This overpowers the class. Think about it: Damage reduction, Ignore damage (which IS damage reduction), Regeneration, AND fast healing. He will never die. I understand this is the concept. So I left these things in there, just weakened the regeneration to three, spread out the fast healing, and took out the resistance silliness. If you regenerate, fast heal, damage reduce and all that jazz and then ALSO have resistance to everything under the sun, like energy types AND spells... where is the weakness? Every class has a weakness; something that can kill it. You could say your weakness is not being able to hit anything for crap, but that's why you're in a party. There needs to be something that can kill you. Which is also why I say IF you really NEED the resistance crap in there, you can't let the character change the energy resistance at will (which is what a swift action is) and then also let them choose what their weakness will be for the day. So, if you want to fix that problem, you need to say that their regeneration's weakness (fire or whatever) is fixed, and cannot be changed, after they choose it when they gain the ability. Acid blood doesn't fit the class and it wouldn't help anyways... say you're by your companions and you get hit. You spray your acidy blood all over your allies that you are trying to protect and also on the enemy. So I nixed that as well. You are already quite powerful and don't need this extra stuff. If you are worried about not being able to do anything to harm the enemy, remember that you have feats to help you. A lot can be done with feats. Indestructable is a good idea, but I feel you have taken it too far. Keep the phylactery and say that you don't age... but everyone dies; even the monk who never ages. You gain two sweet ass abilities from completely different character concepts... You cannot be immune to the only thing that hurts you (subdual damage). I say you take out your immunity to death effects, critical hits, and subdual damage. The rest of the immunities in that ability should be fine.
Animana 01-06-07, 02:04 AM	I really, really like the concept of this class. This and the Juggernaut are both great concepts. But this is taking it waaay too far. I like what marrithl2 did with it, but even THAT is overpowered. DR 20/-? Ridiculous. That in addition to fast healing and regeneration? Holy crap. It seems like you just took every single ability that keeps you in combat longer and just threw it in there. I'm surprised you didn't put in the Loyalty Beyond Death or Deathless Frenzy in there. Of course if you can just switch your weaknesses on the fly so you don't have weaknesses and even subdual damage does nothing to you, then what's the point? Seriously, this needs a LOT of work, and I whole-heartedly suggest that you begin by taking a good long look at what marrithl2 posted. Seriously, I'd love to see how this turns out and I'll be keeping an eye on it.
JagAgemo 01-06-07, 04:05 AM	First off; this class has bin updated many many times so the only thing you see is the end of it (had you seen how it was or even if you had read the thread for that matter, you would know that I was always looking for balance) But no one EVER said anything about it being overpowerd (and I asked many times) But alas some one has come along and said just that. Fine. I was realy only adding what was said was needed. originaly it didn't even have regenatation, it could just regrow limbs. now lets start with this: skill points: heck I really didn't think I needed +4 but I took the ranger skills as a base and went with it. the shields: the buckler is my personal favorite and the only sheild I would ever use. as of tower shield I'll go ahead and give it to them (I'll still be using my buckler anyway) saves: it's retarded to have Evasion with a bad ref. But it is also retarded to have Mettle with a bad fort AND will. however knowing that giving them all good saves (and I did this form the very start) would be too powerful I just dicided giving them two and alowing the player to diced what he would loose was a better Idea. After many post saying that he would have a good Fort nomater what I changed them to be as they are (and will continue to be) now. BAB: I've never seen a class with a bad BAB that wasen't a caster in one way or another (heck look at war mage his BAB took me by surprize). everything (EVERYTHING) else that isen't a fighter has a mid BAB. CHA Vs. CON: I know what the ups would be from doing this but I also know it would make it suck. not because I'd lose the bonus to saves or to attack (I added the to attack cuz many were saying you couldn't hit anything with this) but more than that It would loose alot of its coolness factore. if it comes from CON its you, But if it comes from CHA it's your awesomeness player 1 "I'm so awesome, I can stop it with my awesomeness, just cuz I'm THAT awesome" player 2 "DAAAAAMN" player 1 wins 4'eva Yes it's stupid but it's also a (good) reason to play a class. Not only that but with all the min/maxers out there having Cha do something for a change is refreshing, all my builds have an at least 10-12 cha not cuz I need it, just cuz I like it. besides explain how (by description) CON would affect any way ANY kind of Aura??? Meat Shield: I really would prefer him not having to spend any of his actions (maby a move action if they are not within a 5ft reach, that would be nice) just to use this ability. and if I didn't frase it correctly; he can only get in the way of ONE opponent to defend ONE ally. (anything else makes it sound like he could defend an army all by himself, and anyone dumb enough to think that, should never ever get a cookie!). Damage Reduction: My original post only had DR 5/- It was the voice of the people that made it as it is now. I thought about doing what you did there, but I was too lazy to type it. thanks for that!!! ^_^ Ignore damage is not Damage Reduction it covers every thing that Damage Reduction does not (that's why it's so damn low). My Idea was, if this thing is gona get hit, then hit some'or and again and again and again and again after some time your bound to be able to Ignore some damage that DR and other stuff don't cover, such as vile, force and sacred damage (just to mention some of the well known ones, look at the sand dragon) however I see that even as a 1/4lvl thing is a tad too high for it to be stacking with everything else so it is now Officially Unstackable. "You could say your weakness is not being able to hit anything for crap, but that's why you're in a party" you say. (couldn't get the damn thing to qoute right) Before I go on, I MUST say this is the wrost argument you could have used. I mean realy... cuz all this time I thought this was the only reason you would have a partys were ever made CUZ " Every class has a weakness" going on; Adaptive energy resistance: this was the original: "Adaptive energy resistance: At 10th level a survivor gains resistance to energy base to the last type of energy that delt damage to him. If the last type of energy was acid it gains resistance to acid, if the last type of energy was fire it gains resistance to fire, and so on. The amount of resistance is equal to: survivor's level/2 (round down). This resistance last for 1 minute or until another type of energy damages the survivor." every one said it was stupid the only way this would work is if a foe hit you twice with the same energy. a mage hardly ever does that. but you are right a swift action is overpowering so it will now take one 1min (10 rounds) of concentration (not the skill just not doing anything else without interuptions) to change the type. now if you read realy colsely to the description you would see that: "he can't choose the same energy as the one he chose for Regeneration" QUOTE ME (JagAgemo) and yes I "really NEED the resistance crap in there" cuz nothing else to stop flaming weapons, cold weather, Oozes, and a bunch of other crap that have no saves that could potentially kill him when he is taking it for the team. and he always is. Timeless body: much like the goggles does nothing...^_^ you can (I more than likely will) take it out all together. player 1 "really you'll no longer look older?" player 2 "no!!!"*in an excited voice" player 1 "does it do anything else?" player 2 "...well...I'm already in my venerable stage of life to get to lvl 17 so... for a few years-... and then" player 1 "so you really just got facial cream for life hu?" Acid blood: go ahead and take it. I really just like the thought of using harm's way in conjunction. fast healing: I orignily set this up as an every 4 levels thing hoping it would go in to epic. Regeneration: 3 is fine, (it didn't have Regeneration to begin with people just asked for it) I realy just threw a number at it and waited for a reaction. as for the weakness I did take it WAY too lightly and yes you can choose your weakness but it will be set. Indestructable: will be commented in my next post PS this is more than likely very misspelled but I'll look at it later
marrithl2 01-06-07, 01:44 PM	wow, you must've gotten really offended... Well if you want to just slap together a class and make it with everything you want; feel free. I don't care what you play. You could give him full spell progression, full BAB, 8 + Int skills, Perfect saves, d12 hit dice, regeneration 10, Damage reduction 20/-, damage ignorance 20, fast healing 10, and immunity to everything. If you want to go to your DM saying "mommy look! This is what I want!! YAY!" Then you can do that. But if you want to make a class that others will play in their campaigns, you need to make sacrafices and take what the PEACH'ers give you. You don't post a class on here and then take EVERY little suggestion and add it on, you need to take what makes sense for the class and isn't too powerful. And you don't post a class that you don't want torn apart. The point of posting it is to make it playable, otherwise you could make up your own class and keep it locked up in your bedroom forever and be the only one to play it. But where's the fun in that?
JagAgemo 01-07-07, 03:14 PM	sorry I just came back and read my/ your post. Yeah I did sound offended, but I didn't mean to I was just tired, and wanting to defend the class and my self. you made it sound like it was my own doing (never mind thats a half truth ^_^; ) making this class overpowerd. I do want to make the class playable if not why bother posting? But when originaly posted I did not get a feedback that wasn't "it needs more". so I just went with it. having this said. I do wish to thank every one for posting and keeping the thread alive one way or another. However travellersside made a very good point, as it was I could not survive, and much less defend for that matter. now from here on please consider that this class does need stuff to keep it alive only becouse of this: most classes (except the wizard once in a while) are will recive 1/4 to, oh say 1/2 of the damage, in a 4 palyer party of the total damage delt to them. the survivor's main intention and hope is to recive 100% of the damage AND still survive throughout the battle. so having DR 20/-, regeneration, fast healing, etc. might seem very unbalencing to most classes but he (if doing his job right) needs them. any and all offensive abilites this class has are (and should be) overshadowed with any other class. as for the Indestructable and age thing I would still like to comment on it (I'll be gentle ;) ) Indestructable: when I thought this up I was looking a the lich and the necropolitans (as might be implied by the flavored text) so what I did is I gave him somthing worthy of a 20lvl progration. not wanting it to be unbalenced I took many of the undead traits away so he would be at par with their undead weankesses and called him an outsider. Indestructable is maby the only thing that has never changed from the start, and I would have liked it to stay that way cuz it way my/the classes "thing" what made them very unique. however I can see that it need a change *sad*, not a big one just: "they are not immune to subdual damage" I can only hope this is enoghf of a change to this ritual to make it (just the ritual) balenced but worthy of a 20lvl survivor. as for the age thing: the worst kind of death in the dnd world (IMO) is by aging (or any kind of pointless death for that matter). saying that he can't die by age is not a big deal to me or most of the palyer I know. It was one my intentions from the very start that this class would not die by age. or must all storys end "and he lived happy for the rest of his days"? No. in some campains 1 or 2 players become demi gods others become angles or something else equaly never dieing. I do wish feedback, but please: A) read at least some, not just the end of the thread. B) think of balence when you post, even if it's some thing that would plain out overpower it, I would like to hear it. just say something like "you could add [cool Idea] if your willing to get rid of [existing cool idea]"
JagAgemo 01-07-07, 03:21 PM	Double post
Krusk 01-07-07, 05:49 PM	At first level: 4 X (2 + int) after 1st level 2 + int needlessly complex. just give 2+int, i dont see this class as being very skill heavy. Armor and weapon proficiency: The Survivor is proficient with all simple; light, medium and heavy armor and all shields including tower shield. No weapon proficency? I still say all good saves Unearthly Grace(Su): the survivor adds his charisma modifier to all saving throws and as a Morale bonus to attack and to AC. Why a moral bonus to attack? thats a second offense ability. Still seemds like it would need to be good at something befor i would play it. I would definatly allow a player in my game to play one, but only after warning them "you will not be powerful". Maybe give it knights challenge, the one that forces enemies to attack him? Then I would say with my changes it would be fine. I really like how the classes SR works BTW.
JagAgemo 01-07-07, 06:13 PM	my bad. the class has gone through lots of editing and I got confused or forgot about those details thanx for pointing them out. Edit: wait... all classes get X4 at 1st lvl. as for the knights challenge, it already has Meat Shield which improves at 3rd lvl and at 9th lvl it gets Aura of crisis, do you realy thing this is needed? (not a rhetorical question) as for the SR I would like to take the credit but all I did was name it. who came up with it...? well anyway thanks...you...person that came up with it!...Yeah!...*cough *
benstundze 01-07-07, 07:21 PM	bold and underline charts and abilitys type out the saves (lazy dosent look cool) i dont have time to read this......still sorry ben
LordBOB777 01-07-07, 11:04 PM	How about the Knights ablility "Impetuous Endurance"? Never auto-failing a save would be useful. Move around your level 17 ability to either 16 or 18 since neither of those levels have anything and put Impetuous Endurance at 17th. Just a thought.
Realms of Chaos 01-07-07, 11:14 PM	As an answer to why I say no multiclassing, otherwise you could dip 6 levels of this, getting an armored version of evasion, uncanny dodge, and mettle, a conveniant ability that lowers damage from any source by one, heavy armor proficiency, the d12 hit die for increased health early on, and 2 good saves. The problem with allowing this to multiclass is that you can't take their benefits away. Every other character has some sort of restriction or failsafe device to stop them if they become too powerful for the DM to handle. With Fighters, a rust monster stops them and their valuable weaponry. With Wizards, a large fire elemental aimed at the spellbook works quite well. The dieties of clerics may declare the cleric a traitor or become especially marked for death by followers of enemy deities (or their deity might just die). If you have a rogue, lets see how they like the undead and constructs that fill the only dungeons where trapfinding may be an essential. If you have a barbarian, put them into a beurocratic environment, wait for them to rage, and arrest them. Druids can be denied nature and forced into fully urban environments. Rangers can be denied their weapons of choice and be taken away from nature. Bards can face off against sightless foes, get separated from the rest of the party and have to fight something alone, or recieve a permanent curse of silence (or any combination of the three :D ). Sorcerers come prenerfed. Even Monks and Paladins (which I am afraid to say are the hardest base classes to nerf) blink out when you shove them in dead magic zone. With this thing, how the hell do you turn him off? Killing him? That nerfs anyone! You can't really nerf this guy short of killing him and reviving him as undead, an event that already nerfs anyone. The only real way to make its abilities useless if to put them in a completely safe scenario, and that defeats the purpose of the game. I'm not saying that these kill switches should or would be used by any DM that knows what they are doing but it is always nice to have them around and allowing someone to multiclass into this "unnerfability" would be madness.
Krusk 01-07-07, 11:20 PM	the endurance ability would be really cool. and yes i do really think it needs the "everyone attack me ability" because as is, every single opponent with access to fly, earth walk, or ranged forms of attack are simply going to fly around him. Yes as long as he sits next to his casters he can take damage for them, but what if they decide "ok, he negated my fireball. time for finger of death" or the orb spells. Also what does he do when he needs to defend not only the arcane caster, but the bard/rogue who just got hit, or the downed fighter, or the cleric who got hit with a lucky shot? If he leaves the caster the caster will die, now he is in trouble. This would help to draw all opponents to him, so they dont focus on others. A thought, perhapse give him improved disarm and trip. Seems like he should do those when he makes an attack. but those might just be better left as feats that are wise choices and not class abilities. let me make sure im reading it correctly. He can essentially take all the damage from a single attack directed at one of his adjacent allies? and at level 3 gets unlimited uses per day. So he could jump in front of all the attacks? from multiple attackers?
JagAgemo 01-08-07, 12:30 AM	As an answer to why I say no multiclassing, otherwise you could dip 6 levels of this, getting an armored version of evasion, uncanny dodge, and mettle, a conveniant ability that lowers damage from any source by one, heavy armor proficiency, the d12 hit die for increased health early on, and 2 good saves. :pbbbtt: :censored:Damn you!!! Making good points all of a sudden!!! Damn you!!! :headexplo :rant: ok, ok fine if I hear anyone else saying that the class should not multiclass it won't. shouldn't be too hard, "no multiclassing" will probably be the next edit to the class. How about the Knights ablility "Impetuous Endurance"? Never auto-failing a save would be useful. Move around your level 17 ability to either 16 or 18 since neither of those levels have anything and put Impetuous Endurance at 17th. Just a thought. as for the "Impetuous Endurance". damn I should have finish reading the knight, never got farther then that stupid code. Hmmm... let me think about it. or hear what other people have to say about this. If I just put it in someone is bound to say it is unbalancing, and if I don't someone else would say it needs it. the endurance ability would be really cool. I wouldn't be able to answer that cuz I have no Idea what that ability is or where I could read it. if your talking about the feat, that I kinda know, and I will consider it maby at some not-to-important lvl. and yes i do really think it needs the "everyone attack me ability" because as is, every single opponent with access to fly, earth walk, or ranged forms of attack are simply going to fly around him. Yes as long as he sits next to his casters he can take damage for them, but what if they decide "ok, he negated my fireball. time for finger of death" or the orb spells. acctualy the ability works if the ally is attacked in anyway so, so long as it was targeting him, and the survivor was within reach the survivor could take it. the only thing that meat shield would not work on is something like "magic Mis" or if the surivor was flat footed to the attack. Also what does he do when he needs to defend not only the arcane caster, but the bard/rogue who just got hit, or the downed fighter, or the cleric who got hit with a lucky shot? If he leaves the caster the caster will die, now he is in trouble. This would help to draw all opponents to him, so they dont focus on others. If this happens it is because the DM is doing a good job in considering the fact that there is a survivor in the party :D . But because this can come to pass ok, if I can add it I will. let me make sure im reading it correctly. He can essentially take all the damage from a single attack directed at one of his adjacent allies? and at level 3 gets unlimited uses per day. So he could jump in front of all the attacks? from multiple attackers? the way it works is that before lvl 3 he can stop any number of attacks, but only from a single opponent attaking any one ally (within reach or readyed move action etc.). at 3th lvl the its still the same thing but he can stop any number of attacks from any number of opponents, BUT still only blocking one and only one ally.
Krusk 01-08-07, 02:04 AM	By endurance, i ment the knights ability Impetuous Endurance. which would be pretty cool. Essentially it means the survivor would be safe from half-casters or weak much lower level mages. No more charm person on fighter 20 by level 7 mages. Full saves.
JagAgemo 01-08-07, 02:26 AM	Full saves. You know what? FINE. I'll give him the damn full save, if only because your are the person who has posted most offen on this class and I know you have seen it from the very start. but it is now a no multiclassing class.
JagAgemo 01-08-07, 02:44 AM	:confused: ...How should I word this "no multiclassing" thing. Cuz I have no real idea of what I want to say. I've never had a no multiclassing class before. Examples please:bigeyes:
JagAgemo 01-08-07, 03:39 PM	OK how does Multiclassing Survivor: look? Edit: I also changed the skill points so people wouldn't not take the class do to lack of skill points and forcing the 1st level on them
Krusk 01-09-07, 11:40 AM	I was a fan of no multiclassing. Maybe you could say no multiclass but it can prestige no problem.
JagAgemo 01-09-07, 01:18 PM	yes, I like having the ability to multiclass, but Realms of Chaos did have a good point on the dip-ability. So I thought giving him just a restriction would be fine. But I can also see that I was too restrictive to include Prcs in the math; so I will just keep the same restrictions on multiclassing but Prc don't count against it.
JagAgemo 01-09-07, 03:59 PM	Peach or :bump: OR BOTH!!!dun..dun....Dunnnnn!!!!
marrithl2 01-10-07, 02:45 PM	How about you stop adding to this class? It's overpowered and broken. No one but you will play it. I don't know how many times or how many ways I can/need to tell you... --last time I'll post here--
JagAgemo 01-10-07, 05:43 PM	that's it. I give up... I have no idea what to with the class any more. some say overpowered some say weak... I don't know. if any of you care to read it, this was my original post, make of it what you will: Fort, Ref & Level BAB will Save Special 1st +0 +0|+2 Fast movement, Courage, Best at... 2nd +1 +0|+3 Evasion 3rd +2 +1|+3 4th +3 +1|+4 Uncanny dodge 5th +3 +1|+4 Unearthly Grace 6th +4 +2|+5 Mettle 7th +5 +2|+5 Heavy strike 8th +6/1 +2|+6 Damage reduction 2/- 9th +6/1 +3|+6 Fast healing 2 10th +7/2 +3|+7 Adaptive energy resistance 11th +8/3 +3|+7 Impruved uncanny dodge 12th +9/4 +4|+8 Damage reduction 3/- 13th +9/4 +4|+8 Impruved evation 14th +10/5 +4|+9 Fast healing 3 15th +11/6/1 +5|+9 Damage reduction 4/- 16th +12/7/2 +5|+10 Regeneration 17th +12/7/2 +5|+10 Spell resistance (10 + HD) 18th +13/8/3 +6|+11 Damage reduction 5/- 19th +14/9/4 +6|+11 Fast healing 4, Timeless body 20th +15/10/5 +6|+12 Adaptive energy resistance, Indistructable My intention was to make a meat shield from the very start...maybe it just was not meant to be. This is the last time I expect my self to post here. that is to say I will let it die, but if any one has a comment question or concern or anything at all to say; I will respond to it. Thank you ALL for posting and having at least some interest in the class.
marrithl2 01-10-07, 06:33 PM	(so I lied) That is MUCH better. I'd say screw the changes. It's not what you wanna hear, but the original post was far more balance than the current build.
JagAgemo 01-10-07, 10:01 PM	the original post was what I thought was balanced. but in my uncertainty I decided to post it here to hear what others had to say. I do not regret doing so but it has been a bumpier journey than I had expected. (so I lied) That is MUCH better. I'd say screw the changes. It's not what you wanna hear, but the original post was far more balance than the current build. It isn't exactly that I do not want to hear it, but may of the ideas were in fact good/necessary to the class. the following I would like to keep (not necessary as they are but maybe in one way or another) >Meat Shield: with out this the class really dose nothing, but survive. >Oppressive Spell resistance; but keep the "Oppressive" part as a X/day thing. >Regeneration; but not as actual regeneration, just the reattaching/re growing thing that it does. NO subdual damage, NO healing, fast healing should be enough. >Aura of crisis: this just like Meat Shield, is necessary for the class to accomplish it's job. (but even then I ~could~ let it go and just keep Meat Shield) >Impetuous Endurance & Ignore Damage: I can live without these, but if only IF possible I would like to keep maybe one, I it is in fact too much, then I can let them both go (If I can keep both I'm fine with that too:D). >2 good saves; I find 3 to be too much, so I'll leave it at 2 and the player chooses (as the old "best at...") >Heavy Evasion & Improved Heavy Evasion; I have no idea what to make of these. help please. >the DR: 20/- is TOO MUCH, but 5/- is to little (as seen in travellersside's example; POST #13), any help finding a mid point maybe 7 or 10ish (just trowing it out there) Once more I would like to say that I am lost in balance with this class. so any and all suggestions are welcome, but please keep balance in mind. NOTE: I will not re-edit the class until some of these points can be cleared. thank you
JagAgemo 01-11-07, 08:53 PM	ok I basically combined my old post to my last one and came up whit this. IF and ability has a "?" It means I am indecisive about it so do not treat it as though it was part of the class but as a possibility. (read post #44 (this is 45)) peach
Krusk 01-12-07, 01:29 AM	What happened, i had you set on saves. Anyway, Get rid of ignore damage entirly. Why give damage reduction if they get this ability which does not stack with damage reduction. Honestly i never read this ability and it is pretty much broken and not a very good idea. Put your damage reduction back to 1/level. 20 at level 20 is essentially useless as people will be doing 580 damage instead of 600 a round, and more than likely doing save or die. Maybe add in the thing that gets around regeneration also gets past damage reduction. Oh, you took out regenerate and made it make sense. ok, well than at first level they pick one energy type that overcomes their DR. Keep heavy evasion and the knight endurance ability. Both are reasonable for the class, and the knight ability isnt that amazing anyway. For oppressive SR, i never noticed it had an X/day ability. Either introduce a feat to up that or up the ammount per day. 4/day is essentially 1/2 a combat with a dragon or any nuke mage. Aura of crisis, maybe you should say something like "the survivor cannot suppress this action unless they have the ability to think about it. If in combat it activates as soon as the survivor recieves damage from any source.It remains active untill the survivor spends a standard action to turn it off. It stays off until a standard action is spent to turn it on. The survivor may activate his aura during the suprise round as a free action. When not in combat it is off, unless the survivor spends a standard action to turn it on." That way it is a bad idea to spend time turning it off when in battle This would work like they see him hit, and not care so they realize yadda yadda... this just came to me now, so it could suck instead of normal sr10+lvl at level 12 Maybe grant Sr=to level at level 1 SR=level+5 at level 6 SR= level+10 at 12 and SR= level +15 at level 18. ? Might also consider giving lower attack bonus, to discourage attacking. Especially if you feel this class is underpowered. which i dont.
JagAgemo 01-12-07, 02:07 AM	OK so: Ignore Damage is out Aura of crisis has bin made so it is harder to suppress -showing that Aura of crisis is part of a survivor and not just an ability- Oppressive SR is back at its full power but not until lvl 18. Impetuous Endurance will stay. as for the heavy evasion and DR, I really don't want to move them at the moment. and the "all good saves", well if you can get marrithl2 to agree with that, then I will do so. being that marrithl2 seems to be the most picky about this kinda thing.
Krusk 01-12-07, 02:18 AM	i was all for keeping heavy evasion... so good. Sounds good for oppressive SR thing hey marrithl2 agree.
Realms of Chaos 01-13-07, 02:44 PM	Unfortunately, there is one more small problem. This guy's flavor makes no sense! Right now, you have a guy who has trained himself to stay alive. Why and how? How does immortality and a lichlike ceremony fit in with the rest of the abilities? How do these extraordinary and supernatural abilities tie into each other on any other level than crunch? If this thing was called the "lifeseeker" or something along those lines, it would make more thematic sense but would sound frailer (maybe a d8 HD) and would sound like a prestige class. The only way that training to survive actually makes a lick of sense in DnD is for the people who live at the fringe of or far away from society (the old hermits, desert nomads, or forest wardens), wear full plate mail and even metal weapons should be extremely rare. A class built on pure defense does not stand (metaphorically speaking) any more than the healer class does. It may be overpowered, underpowered, or even properly powered, but without some fluff to make sense of it all, it really has no foundation. It needs three dimensions, including some form of basic offense. This, In my opinion, is a survivor class. Level B.A.B. Will Fort Ref Special 1 +1 +2 +2 +2 Terrain Adaptation, Endurance, Too Busy for Change 2 +2 +3 +3 +3 Evasion, Fight for Survival 3 +3 +3 +3 +3 Uncanny Dodge, Hearty Body 4 +4 +4 +4 +4 Mettle, One eye open 5 +5 +4 +4 +4 Terrain Adaptation 6 +6 +5 +5 +5 Improved Uncanny Dodge 7 +7 +5 +5 +5 DR 2/Magic 8 +8 +6 +6 +6 Improved Fight for Survival 9 +9 +6 +6 +6 Forced Recovery 10 +10 +7 +7 +7 Terrain Adaptation, DR 4/Magic 11 +11 +7 +7 +7 Improved Evasion 12 +12 +8 +8 +8 Fight or Flight 13 +13 +8 +8 +8 DR 6/Magic 14 +14 +9 +9 +9 Improved Mettle 15 +15 +9 +9 +9 Terrain Adaptation 16 +16 +10 +10 +10 DR 8/Magic 17 +17 +10 +10 +10 Superior Fight For Survival 18 +18 +11 +11 +11 Spell Resistance 10+level. 19 +19 +11 +11 +11 DR 10/Magic 20 +20 +12 +12 +12 Terrain Adaptation Armor and Weapon Proficiency: Proficient with light armor and simple weapons. Terrain Adaptation: At 1st level, a Survivor chooses one type of natural terrain. While in that terrain, a survivor gets a +4 bonus on survival checks, can provide food or water for twice as many people with a successful survival check, a +2 bonus on damage rolls against creatures native to that environment, and can find and craft a quarterstaff, club, sling, or 10 rocks suitable for a sling with a dc 20 survival check (they find an additional such weapon for every 5 points by which they pass this dc. The weapons need not all be of the same type). At 5th level and every 5 levels thereafter, a Survivor chooses a new environment in which to gain these benefits. In addition, at each of these levels, the bonus to survival checks and damage rolls from previous terrains increases by +2. Endurance: At 1st level, a Survivor gains endurance as a bonus feat. Too Busy for Change: A Survivor is often too busy... surviving... to adapt to small changes around them. First off, a character with at least one level in Survivor cannot multiclass out of it (although characters are free to multiclass into it). Secondly, a Survivor takes a -2 penalty on all charisma based checks due to their rare confrontations with others. Third, while in an urban area, the alienness of thier surroundings distract the Survivor, resultign in a -2 penalty to listen and spot checks as well as initiative rolls. Lastly, due to the relative rarity of metal weapons in the wilderness, a Survivor is not used to the weighting of a metal weapon and takes a -2 penalty to attack rolls when using a weapon including any amount of metal. Evasion: As the normal ability. Fight For Survival: A Survivor is very attached to life and is loathe to give it up without a fight. When a survivor is knocked down to 1/2 of their hit points or less, they enter a ragelike state due to increased adrenaline. The survivor gains a +4 bonus to their strength score, a +2 bonus on all saving throws, DR 2/-, and the Survivor can act normally when between 0 and -9 hit points. During this state, the Survivor loses the ability to flee and much of their common sense, losing the ability to fight defensively, take the total defense action, use the disarm action, use the withdraw action, use aid another. Use the Trip action, take a 5-foot step, to use any intelligence or charisma based skill checks, to use the combat expertise feat, or to move more than 20 feet away from the most immediate threat. This fight for survival lasts until the end of the current encounter or for a number of rounds equal to 3+the Survivor's Constitution modifier, whichever comes first. A Fight for Survival can only be ended prematurely if there are no immediate sources of danger. At the end of this period, the Survivor becomes fatigued (or falls unconscious and stabilizes if between -1 and -9 hit points). Uncanny Dodge: As the normal ability. One Eye Open: Starting at 3rd level, a Survivor has taught themself how to get by on less sleep. The Survivor can get by on half the normal amount of sleep. Spellcasters must still get the same amount of rest to prepare spells (in the case of spellcasters that multiclass into survivor) Mettle: As the normal ability. Hearty Body: Starting at 4th level, a Survivor's Body has adapted to their frequent wounds and has learned how to heal itself more efficiently. the Survivor heals naturally at twice the normal rate. Improved Uncanny Dodge: As the normal ability. Improved Fight for Survival: Starting at 8th level, a Survivor's fight for survival ability improves greatly. They now gain a +6 bonus to their strength score, a +4 bonus on all saving throws, DR 4/-, and they heal 1 hit point each round that they remain between 0 and -9 hit points. Forced Recovery: Starting at 9th level, a Survivor can force their body to heal itself. By making a concentration, heal, or survival check (DC 20+1 per previous such check made that day, regardless of success or failure) and spending 1 minute in concentration, the Survivor heals an amount of damage equal to their constitution modifier. Improved Evasion: As the normal ability. Flight or Fight: Starting at 12th level, while using a Survivor's Fight for Survival ability, a Survivor can try to change the fight impulse into one for flight. Doing so requires a concentration check (dc 20+1 per previous consecutive success) each round to maintain. While flighting, the Survivor's strength bonus becomes a dexterity bonus, their speed increases by 10 feet, and they gain a +2 dodge bonus to their A.C, but they are unable to make any attacks. Improved Mettle: As the normal ability Superior Fight for Survival: Starting at 17th level, a Survivor's Fight for Survival ability is empowered even further. While in that state, they gain a +8 bonus to their strength score, a +6 bonus on all saving throws, DR 6/-, a +2 natural armor bonus to their AC, and their hit points are automatically healed up to 1/4 of their total hit points at the beginning of each round (unless they already possessed more hit points). IN short, a "Survivor" class should be a strange, funky combination of a barbarian,druid, monk, and ranger. If you want to keep your class, come up with a new name and readjust the features. It isn't enough to come up with a set of cool abilities if you can't properly justify their flavor through fluff. For Crying out loud, you introduce this class with a single quote, and one that doesn't make any sense at that. I need more to work with.
Krusk 01-14-07, 01:43 AM	Basically he is going for a class that is impossible to kill. Calm down guy. I assumed he was going for a guy who trained to be an the old hermits, desert nomads, or forest wardens. Im also assuming he has all the fluff worked out, and simply wants help balancing the class out some. Seriously, don't ever use those giant type bold words. It makes people instantly skip over your post, and it comes off as rude every single time.
JagAgemo 01-14-07, 03:33 PM	I like that class you made, very fitting with the term "survivor", however I was going for more of a meatsheild than an actual warrior. (I didn't know there was such a thing as "Improved Mettle". Edit: full BAB and all good saves?!?!) the name of the class is slightly irelevent, and I admit 'survivor' does not meet with all the abilities the class has, but during my drafts of the class it was the name that I found most fitting (as the 'survivor' PrC from SS was what got me going). I see now that maybe some other name would be more appropriate. yeah sorry about not giving the back story on the class as soon as we finish it, I'll post it but RL is getting busy so it might not happen for a while. Seriously, don't ever use those giant type bold words. It makes people instantly skip over your post, and it comes off as rude every single time. I didn't find it rude, it did distract me from the rest of the post as soon as I saw it though.
Krusk 01-15-07, 12:07 AM	To me it signifies really loud yelling. the bigger and bolder the louder. To me that is almost always rude.
Realms of Chaos 01-18-07, 01:13 AM	To me it signifies really loud yelling. the bigger and bolder the louder. To me that is almost always rude. In my opinion, an abbundance of smiley faces surrounding a word or placing half a dozen !s after a statement don't get much attention either. In a particularly wordy text (that many might skip over or skim), I find the best way to point out a single peice of information is to enlarge it, not so that it represents yelling (there are already several smilies made for that) but so that the people reading the post, wanting to skip over to see what someone else said about their work, is more likely to catch the phrase. I am quite civilized and I admit that I wasn't quite expecting it to look so big by comparison. I admit that I am a (and quite possibly the only) fluff nitpicker. I am the guy who asks if fey kissed or lich loved actually have prerequisites, deny that there can be any extra vestiges as there are only 32 teeth (and dahlver-nar wore them all), and say that this class needs a new fitting name unless some solid form of fluff justifying its name over something less mundane (like lifeseeker). I know that it is insane but I thank god(s) that I got to handpick my personal psychosis.
Krusk 01-18-07, 11:54 AM	i also love to question the fluff. Actually i find myself questioning that much more often than class abilities, as the only way i can tell if something is balanced is to actually playtest it and try to break it.
Robotic_Christmass_Elf 06-26-07, 03:03 AM	you know what? this class is cool! while different abilities may or may not need tweaking, this is a fun idea for a class and I know some of the people in my group have wanted to play a character like this. DR 10, while not huge at level 20, IS enough to make a difference, especially since it applies to everything. keep this as it is. in regards to the white dragon encounter suggested earlier, with the extra damage reduction, you should last about as long as the barbarian now (with 10 DR), and you would have taken much less damage when the dragon breathed, and you are easier to heal! sure, you can't contribute much in an offensive fashion, but with Aura of Crisis and Meat Shield you stop the dragon from killing the wizard AND made the clerics job easier because he only has to heal one person. While the idea of a truly defensive character with few offensive abilities is going to be extremely hard to balance, you could do worse than the current version of this class. Goodbye, and goodluck!
Waldo_di 06-26-07, 09:22 AM	Here are my suggestions: 1. start DR at level 6 at DR 1/- and every two levels bump it up one for DR 8/- at lvl 20 2. SR is good maybe at 8 or 7 + level would be better because you already would have good saves 3. give one less point of fast heal 4. If you've read the knight then maybe you could add shield ally (or not he's your character) 5. instead of the current indestructable maybe he can cast a contingency on himself that reccurects or true reccurect him in a certain period of time maybe make this ability once a week he can use it. He's a great character know but, i think he could be better but thats just me
JagAgemo 07-10-07, 03:03 AM	Wow holy hellz some one posted some time ago to this dusty old class... well a friend wanted to use it so I decided to take a look at it again (I had actually forgoten its existence). ok so I kinda re-reedited it, I think I'm happy with how it is now (the last time I started adding and removing things my sanity suffered) any who... the last two posts form Robotic_Christmass_Elf and Waldo_di it confirms my suspicions that I'm getting opposing view points (again), as such I will (until further notice) keep the class as it is. any comments are welcome, but I really don't visit the site as much as I use to so responses might take a while (or not... I don't know).
Genetic 07-10-07, 09:19 AM	Reminds me of the paladin from WoW. Sure it can wander around the battlefield and hit things but nobody pays any attention to it because it can't pull agro in PVE and can't do any damage. (At least this was true abouty 6 months ago when I stopped playing.) Well (and I mean WELL) geared Retribution paladins can actually put out competitive damage. The problem at that point is they have no threat dump and thus kill themselves from pulling aggro. :cool: So basically it's a choice between not being able to do deal good sustained damage (crap gear) vs. pretty good sustained damage and killing yourself (good gear).