Post/Author/DateTime	Post
nonsi 10-07-07, 12:04 PM	I mean, what other purpose can it have (except for Dark One's Own Luck, where you actually have to make a choice) other than letting a petty DM catch you off guard in the wors't possible moment and say "you didn't say you activated it this morning, so it's not active :P " ?!!!
vorpo 10-07-07, 12:08 PM	I mean, what other purpose can it have (except for Dark One's Own Luck, where you actually have to make a choice) other than letting a petty DM catch you off guard in the wors't possible moment and say "you didn't say you activated it this morning, so it's not active :P " ?!!! Pretty much it. Since invocations are spell-like without limited use per day. Making 24-hr duration just simplifies the player's need to reuse it over and over again.
LefferDP 10-07-07, 12:46 PM	The main purpose, to me, seems to be to make the warlock's buffs dispellable, otherwise there'd be no way to bring them down. Of course, you can put them back up, but that takes extra time.
Nezkrul 10-07-07, 02:08 PM	thats why I invoke all my 24 hour buffs about 50 times when I wake up. Makes it insanely hard to dispel them :)
DM Zoc 10-07-07, 02:49 PM	thats why I invoke all my 24 hour buffs about 50 times when I wake up. Makes it insanely hard to dispel them :) Of course, this also has its drawbacks. There are a couple of Dispel techniques that bestow penalties based on the dispelled spells. If another warlock came up to you, there's a good chance you'd end up taking a couple hundred damage from your technique.
LefferDP 10-07-07, 05:38 PM	thats why I invoke all my 24 hour buffs about 50 times when I wake up. Makes it insanely hard to dispel them :) You spend 5 minutes each spell buffing every day? That's almost more buffing each day than a cleric.
Nephlite 10-07-07, 06:13 PM	You spend 5 minutes each spell buffing every day? That's almost more buffing each day than a cleric. Notr like the rest of party does'nt spend 5 minutes soing something: Clerics pray, Sorceror/Wizard mediate (well he reads book for longer), etc.
Jaxgaret 10-07-07, 07:28 PM	thats why I invoke all my 24 hour buffs about 50 times when I wake up. Makes it insanely hard to dispel them :) Welcome to Reaving Dispel and/or Kaleidoscopic Doom. Also, I don't really get the OP's point - what duration would you rather it have? A week?
runestar 10-07-07, 09:28 PM	Also, I don't really get the OP's point - what duration would you rather it have? A week? His point is that their durations seem needlessly long for abilities usable at will, since you can activate them whenever you wish. You spend 5 minutes each spell buffing every day? That's almost more buffing each day than a cleric. That is the beauty of SLAs at will - you can use them whenever you wish. While you are brushing your teeth, taking a potty, eating breakfast etc...:D
Jaxgaret 10-07-07, 09:41 PM	His point is that their durations seem needlessly long for abilities usable at will, since you can activate them whenever you wish. Are you sure? I can't think of any reason for why a shorter duration would be better than a longer duration. Maybe there is one, but it escapes me. All it takes is to state to the DM that all your 24-hour invocations go back up as soon as their duration expires. Same goes for any other long term invocations.
vorpo 10-07-07, 09:51 PM	I think the OP thinks a spell shouldn't last 24hrs just like sor/wiz spells.
runestar 10-07-07, 09:56 PM	I think the OP thinks a spell shouldn't last 24hrs just like sor/wiz spells. Few do actually. Maybe that is his point - the classes who really need long duration buffs (spellcasters with limited slots) get mostly spells with short-moderate durations, while warlocks with at-will invocations get all-day long buffs. Seems like a mismatch, when it should be the other way round.:P
Jaxgaret 10-07-07, 10:16 PM	Few do actually. Maybe that is his point - the classes who really need long duration buffs (spellcasters with limited slots) get mostly spells with short-moderate durations, while warlocks with at-will invocations get all-day long buffs. Seems like a mismatch, when it should be the other way round.:P Except that spellcasters are already powerful enough, and Warlocks could use a boost. This proposed change would help the strongest classes and nerf the one who needs help.
navar100 10-07-07, 10:16 PM	With a 24 hour duration, you don't have to spend an action activating them, which could be important. For example, See the Unseen lets you see invisibile creatures. When combat commences, you can look around for any invisible foes and still do something. Otherwise, you have to spend a standard action to activate and then do something next round. For Beguiling Influence, if trying to bargain with a merchant or bluff a guard, it's better that the invocation was already active rather than you having to activate hoping you are not seen.
runestar 10-07-07, 10:24 PM	With a 24 hour duration, you don't have to spend an action activating them, which could be important. Not true. With an ability usable at will, you will simply be activating them whenever necessarily to keep it up 24/7. This means that duration is not as important, it would not really matter whether it lasts 24 hours or just minutes. For example, if I were playing a ghaele PC, I would take the effort to maintain aid on my entire party 24/7 (since outsiders have no need for sleep). Same goes for its other personal SLAs, such as detect thoughts, improved invis and see invis up whenever possible. It would help to have their durations extended to 24 hours to make the process less cumbersome, but not necessary, IMO.
navar100 10-07-07, 10:41 PM	Not true. With an ability usable at will, you will simply be activating them whenever necessarily to keep it up 24/7. This means that duration is not as important, it would not really matter whether it lasts 24 hours or just minutes. For example, if I were playing a ghaele PC, I would take the effort to maintain aid on my entire party 24/7 (since outsiders have no need for sleep). Same goes for its other personal SLAs, such as detect thoughts, improved invis and see invis up whenever possible. It would help to have their durations extended to 24 hours to make the process less cumbersome, but not necessary, IMO. Yes true. They are spell-like abilities that take a standard action to activate. For warlocks, they have a somatic component as well that can be seen. "At will" only means there's no limit or special preparation. For the 24 hour duration invocations, it doesn't matter since you activate when you wake up. In the hypothetical they weren't 24 hour durations, you may not always know when you'd need them and spending that round's standard action to activate when you do need them could be a problem, as in the examples I gave.
jradd777 10-07-07, 10:56 PM	Yes true. They are spell-like abilities that take a standard action to activate. For warlocks, they have a somatic component as well that can be seen. "At will" only means there's no limit or special preparation. For the 24 hour duration invocations, it doesn't matter since you activate when you wake up. In the hypothetical they weren't 24 hour durations, you may not always know when you'd need them and spending that round's standard action to activate when you do need them could be a problem, as in the examples I gave. I'm not sure so tell me if I'm wrong but this is a pretty good point. If an enemy sees you putting up all these buffs for yourself etc. that's how they know to try those crippling dispelling things. If you put them up in advance, you're just really charismatic (Beguiling Influence) able to see them when it seems like you shouldn't (see the unseen) there's a possibility that it's just you (ability score) or possibly a racial attribute or something. It wouldn't make sense for the DM to automatically have the enemy dispel if you've done nothing to make them think it has a magical origin in some cases. If the DM is RPing the opponent correctly (I understand he's allowed to meta-game and do whatever he wants etc. but feels cheap in my experience [I had a DM have creatures with Int of 8 using intricate battle strategies on our party once]) it just wouldn't make sense and makes the warlock a stronger character.
runestar 10-08-07, 01:51 AM	I think that is their intention - it is exactly because you can maintain your at-will buffs 24/7 that they made their duration 24 hours, so you don't need to bother with refreshing them ever so often. It was meant to simplify this process, nothing more.:) In the hypothetical they weren't 24 hour durations, you may not always know when you'd need them and spending that round's standard action to activate when you do need them could be a problem, as in the examples I gave. Does it matter when I need them or not? Since they are at-will, I can activate them at all times, as and when I want. When I am brushing my teeth, when I am taking a potty break, during meal times etc... It doesn't always have to be prior to or during a combat (which is really the most inefficient use of at-will abilities, which you should be spamming/ refreshing every chance you get, IMO).:P
DracoPhoenix 10-08-07, 09:45 AM	The lower level invisibility spell would pop the moment you breach the normal rules for invisibility, but otherwise lasts the day. But otherwise they are pretty much always on / at will.