Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Paladin2004 07-20-05, 08:42 AM	I'm sort of fed up with the fighter being abit weak. So here is my idea, (which you will probably shoot down :P ) Idea 1 At 3rd level and each 4 levels after that (so levels: 3,7,11,15,19), allow the fighter to choose any feat out of the list (as long as he meats the requirements: Weapon Focus, Greater Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, Greater Weapon Specialization) Idea 2 Also, if the fighter is so underpowered why not just give the fighter a bonus every level (only feats for fighters mind you!!) or just add in a few extra bonus feats here and there, to stop level dipping, so fill in half the gaps in the fighter say, heh lol Idea 3 Another Idea i had to quickly solve the problem would be to up there BAB even more, meh its abit unconvetional but it work, if you gave them a 1.25 BAB, (rounding decimals of cource, that would look like this: Lvl ------------------BAB-------------------------------- 1 1 - - - - - 2 2 - - - - - 3 4 - - - - - 4 5 - - - - - 5 6 1 - - - - 6 7 2 - - - - 7 9 4 - - - - 8 10 5 - - - - 9 11 6 1 - - - 10 12 7 2 - - - 11 14 9 4 - - - 12 15 10 5 - - - 13 16 11 6 1 - - 14 17 12 7 2 - - 15 19 14 9 4 - - 16 20 15 10 5 - - 17 21 16 11 6 1 - 18 22 17 12 7 2 - 19 24 19 14 9 4 - 20 25 20 15 10 5 - This extra BAB would represent the skill of the fighter, who unlike the barb does not attack in as much as a reckless style, but homes there skills. Meh, well 3 quick fixes , what you guys think?! (i'm ready to be shot down)
stamhaven 07-20-05, 09:02 AM	I like the hightened bab ide but would rather see it as a new fighter only feat (at say level 10 where it would get a fighter an itterative attack a level earlier than normal). Where the feat adds to your bab (and allows specifies an exception that it allows a 5th itterative attack at bab 21/16/11/6/1). I think better fighter exclusive feats with minimum levels along with feats with heavy reqs for other feat chains is a great simple way to make higher level straight fighters more apealing.
Baptor 07-20-05, 09:19 AM	:nonono: I tell ya, I never saw anything wrong with the 3.5 fighter as is. Ive got a player that pretty much exculsively plays fighters, and he does a dirty good job. Often doing obscene amounts of damage, disarming my NPCs, triping them and cleaving through lines of infantry. Wizards without proper protection often die in a single round versus the fighters this guy plays. I am (er, was, I play 2nd edition again) a 3.5 CORE DM. I dont use ~any~ other material but the three core rulebooks, so this guy isnt pulling out anything crazy. Personally I think the fact most of you guys have weak fighters is either 1. You are being to nice to the other classes, giving them more leeway with thier powers than normal and being strict on the fighters. 2. You have idiots playing fighters. or both.
cowdragon 07-20-05, 09:42 AM	House rules are cool and all, and you had a really unique one for sure, but... in all honesty, the fighter is not a weak class. I promise. We have a fighter only guy too and he always does the most damage in the round. Usually drops the bad guys with one hit. Only misses on a 1 a other fighter type stuff. The Cowdragon :mage:
thepuregamer 07-21-05, 01:10 AM	fighters are not entirely underpowered. They are really good at dealing damage in combat. The reason why fighters are considered underpowered is that they are a one trick pony. They have no role outside of combat and their ability to deal damage can easily be evaded by equally equipped players from other classes. All one has to do to undo a melee fighter is stay out of their melee range which should not be hard for anyone wearing lighter armor than them. Furthermore, a caster can easily avoid a fighter by casting fly, stone to mud, mordenkain's disjunction, command, etc... Fighters can be massive damage dealers. Anyone with a falchion, power attack, cleave, and improved critical knows that. They can also be good grapplers, trippers, or disarmers, but all of these tricks they have require getting to their target. To have such limitations on a class that has no inherent roleplaying ability is rather sad. That is what is wrong with the warrior and extra feats, bab, hit points, or attacks is not really going to fix that. Possibly a better skill list would.
journeyman777 07-21-05, 02:00 AM	All one has to do to undo a melee fighter is stay out of their melee range Who says you need to be just a melee fighter? Fighters are the only class with enough feats to be great at both melee and ranged. Heck, you can leave melee to the barbarians and deal ranged damage in such quantities that even mages get jealous. In fact, fighter is arguably the best class in the game to build a ranged attacker with. A (hopefully magic) composite longbow +4(or more) does very good damage at truly insane range. Point blank shot, rapid shot, far shot, precise shot, many shot, shot on the run, and improved precise shot with a good ranged weapon can be extremely effective and that is just the feats from the PHB. Adding Brutal Throw allows a character to use str instead of dex for thrown weapon accuracy and Power Throw is basically Power Attack for thrown weapons(Both from the CA). CW adds Improved Rapid Shot, Ranged Disarm, Ranged Pin, Ranged Sunder, Sharp-shooting, and Throw Anything to the mix. A pure fighter can take more of these and get them sooner than any other class in the game. Barbarians, paladins, monks and even some rangers are the ones who are almost completely limited to melee combat to be effective. Fighters can afford to be good at both ranged and melee. Besides, getting all the top tier feats for ranged attacks before epic levels practically requires being a pure fighter! More skills and the points to put in them would be nice (no class should have only 2/level), but please don't say that fighters aren't good enough at fighting. (IMHO) The reason the class is called fighter is because they aren't just good at fighting, they're the best at it!
Nyferto 07-21-05, 07:49 AM	1. Give them spells 2. Give them supernatural abilities 3. Turn them into a Monster Battler base class that's especially good at killing big things You don't have to do all of those at the same time.
Koga:The ninja trick 07-21-05, 11:33 AM	The Koga doesn't think there's anything wrong with the fighter persay, simply in comparison he looks like crap. Try a non-magick campaighn where rangers and paladins don't dabble in spellcasting, clerics and druids are all but forgotten, and wizards/sorcerers are maybe one in a million, and you'll see fighters and how badass they can really be. This is why The Koga likes psionics..
thepuregamer 07-21-05, 05:51 PM	... Fighters are the only class with enough feats to be great at both melee and ranged. Heck, you can leave melee to the barbarians and deal ranged damage in such quantities that even mages get jealous. In fact, fighter is arguably the best class in the game to build a ranged attacker with. A (hopefully magic) composite longbow +4(or more) does very good damage at truly insane range. Point blank shot, rapid shot, far shot, precise shot, many shot, shot on the run, and improved precise shot with a good ranged weapon can be extremely effective and that is just the feats from the PHB. Adding Brutal Throw allows a character to use str instead of dex for thrown weapon accuracy and Power Throw is basically Power Attack for thrown weapons(Both from the CA). CW adds Improved Rapid Shot, Ranged Disarm, Ranged Pin, Ranged Sunder, Sharp-shooting, and Throw Anything to the mix. A pure fighter can take more of these and get them sooner than any other class in the game. Barbarians, paladins, monks and even some rangers are the ones who are almost completely limited to melee combat to be effective. Fighters can afford to be good at both ranged and melee. Besides, getting all the top tier feats for ranged attacks before epic levels practically requires being a pure fighter! More skills and the points to put in them would be nice (no class should have only 2/level), but please don't say that fighters aren't good enough at fighting. (IMHO) The reason the class is called fighter is because they aren't just good at fighting, they're the best at it! This is a semi valid arguement. Yet the ranged ability of a fighter is not as amazing as you try to make it sound. If just using feats from the phb, the fighter has "Point blank shot, rapid shot, far shot, precise shot, many shot, shot on the run, and improved precise shot" and possibly weapon spec. Yet shot on the run first off requires dodge and mobility to use and it is also not very useful for a fighter( low speed). Finally a fighter has touble being good at both melee and ranged because then he is required to have high stats in str and dex at a loss to his other stats. A fighter who picks up all the ranged feats from the phb doesn't gain an amazing ranged damage. His damage won't be so impressive to scare a wizard and he doesn't have the movement to maintain the distance between himself and his enemies. So a fighter cannot really be the best at both melee and ranged. Also it is very questionable that the fighter can be the best at melee alone as many barbarian builds can outdamage him even with their lower number of feats. And as I said before, a fighter while having amazing melee damage capability and less amazing ranged damage cabality can still easily be evaded. A purely ranged fighter is at a weakness because he is not fast enough to stay away from enemies. Finally, koga, who speaks in the third person, is your statement serious or in jest? I suspect you are being sarcastic. If you put the fighter in a world without spell casters and rangers and paladins dont get spells then of course the fighter will be the best but that is because you are either taking away those who are stronger than him or making those who are weaker. Also psionics is insanely broken. That is all I will say about psionics.
RadicalTaoist 07-21-05, 09:46 PM	3. Turn them into a Monster Battler base class that's especially good at killing big things. Please give these kind of capabilities to all the melee classes. It's a freaking shame that casters and pretty much only casters can deal with anything Gargantuan or larger (and melee characters have trouble with Huge monsters straight into the high levels). Also psionics is insanely broken. That is all I will say about psionics. Incorrect. (http://boards.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=416446)
Neo-Sapian 07-22-05, 01:08 AM	I don't think there's anything wrong with the fighter. All of the bonus feats that a fighter gets makes him the most adaptable and customizable characters in the game. As far as role-playing goes, you don't need tons of skill points to role-play. Role-playing is creating a three dimensional character with a history, motivations, dreams, etc.. Being able to select a feat almost every level allows one to create a very unique character.
TheAngryRogue 07-22-05, 02:09 AM	And as I said before, a fighter while having amazing melee damage capability and less amazing ranged damage cabality can still easily be evaded. A purely ranged fighter is at a weakness because he is not fast enough to stay away from enemies. Why would a pure ranged fighter be at a speed disadvantage?? if a fighter is ranged, then hes not going to be wearing medium armor. His dex is gonna take care of that. Plus a fighter with far shot and a composite longbow can hit from 500 feet no problem. How are his enemies even going to get close?? Add the distance magic adjustment, and watch out. Your argument is comepletely base-less.
James Wildspell 07-22-05, 02:38 AM	I think that the easiest fix to several problems that people mention with the Fighter already exists within the rules. It is called multi-classing. Want a broader range of skills, and the skill points to make them worthwhile? Start with a couple or three levels in Ranger. You only miss out on a couple of hit-points, and delay getting the Feats you want only briefly. In return, you get several Feats and Feat-like abilities, the aforementioned skill list and a bunch of S.P. to distribute to them, and a decent bump to you reflex saves. I picked Ranger as an example because I like the class. I leave the advantages of other multi-classing options to the reader and to other posters. I can think of many interesting combinations in both game-mechanic terms and role-playing terms. And I think that is enough to "fix" the Fighter. A bit of a polite rant...Some of it off-topic And for those who will say that x class10/Fighter10 is weak compared to x class20; I say: Oh? When did you last play x class from level 1 all the way to level 20? Or are you building examples rather than playing them? This is a game that exists in many ways in our imaginations, but sometimes the practicalities of play out-weigh the possibilities of gaining specific "builds". Who cares if a Half-Giant Hulking Hurler at level 20 can throw a meteor and destroy a small city? A swarm of dire wasps would be a serious challenge to her. Neither idea approaches my idea of a good time at my weekly gaming session. A Half-Giant Hulking Hurler that can hold his own in a fight and sing Barritone in the local Opera House? Sign me up for the campaign that guy is in.... I warned you some of it was off-topic, but I apologize anyway :blush: