3.5 Animal Companions [Archive] - Wizards Community

3.5 Animal Companions [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Eiko3
06-01-05, 11:36 PM I am really interested in creating a Druid for my next campaign but I'm totally confused about where to start and what abilities are the most effective. Obviously, Wild Shape comes to mind but I was also wondering about the Dru's animal companions. I never really payed much attention to it but I suppose that you MUST choose from the list provided?? I am more familiar with the 3.0 version of animal companions and am kind of dissapointed and confused about the 3.5 version. Does this mean no more legendary animals?? :( I also don't quite understand the decrease in animal ability according to Dru lvl. What does this mean?

Thanks.
Jaid
06-01-05, 11:44 PM whatever your DM approves can be changed.

just make sure you don't go too far off on CR etc and you should be ok (most animals won't have too bad of a balance problem, legendary or not, if you just keep them available at the appropriate CR.)

oh, and i should probably answer the rest of the post to the best of my ability as well =P druids can be pretty good at most things. wildshape is a powerful route, spellcasting (especially summoning) can be a powerful route, and they have decent skills too. pretty much pick something and go with it, a druid is versatile enough to be good at any of their special stuff and be worthwhile IMO.
Nephlite
06-01-05, 11:50 PM I am really interested in creating a Druid for my next campaign but I'm totally confused about where to start and what abilities are the most effective. Obviously, Wild Shape comes to mind but I was also wondering about the Dru's animal companions. I never really payed much attention to it but I suppose that you MUST choose from the list provided?? I am more familiar with the 3.0 version of animal companions and am kind of dissapointed and confused about the 3.5 version. Does this mean no more legendary animals?? :(

Thanks.

Those are examples of creatures that you can get. You may get more, but remember the Druid level for Animal companion bonuses is reduced by a certain amount.
The more powerful the animal the more it is reduced.
This is for balanced because bears getting same power bonus as a wolf makes bears way overpowered so they reduced benefit.

Are there even legendary animals in 3.5? I'm no druid expert so I'm asking.
Eiko3
06-02-05, 12:10 AM Good to know that you aren't limited to the list. However, I did notice the reduction that the animals get and I'm not exactly sure what this means.
Pliskit
06-02-05, 02:55 AM There´s actually no reduction. It´s just that if you´re a lvl 9 druid and you take a wolf for an animal companion, it upgrades. Because this is an animal of the lowest rank it gets no lvl adjustment according to the right table on page 36, so it gets the full bonuses from the left table on that same page: +6 bonus HD, +6 natural AC, +3 strength, +3 dex, 4 bonus tricks, link, share spells, evasion, devotion and multiattack.

If you´re a lvl 9 druid and take a Brown Bear as a companion, it gets lvl adjustment -6 on the right table, which would put it in the 3rd to 5th class on the left table, thus giving it +2HD, +2AC, +1str, +1dex, 2 bonus tricks, link, share spells and evasion.

This makes it possible for a higher lvl druid to maintain the animal he/she chose at earlier levels... However, the higher lvl animals are still better.
kenichi
06-02-05, 10:48 AM Legendary animals were kind of a patch fix for 3.0 druids to keep a "normal" animal companion. In 3.0 your companion did not get any better, you had to get a new companion or an additional companion.
In 3.5 they decided to allow your companion to advance with you rather than forcing you to abandon your companion every few levels, you can keep it and it advances with you.
Where in 3.0 a druid would have to choose a legendary wolf, a 3.5 druid has a wolf that has been advanced (I don't know how the two compare to each other, but I would guess/hope they are fairly similar in combat ability), plus the advanced wolf gains another attack, improved evasion, additional HD, feats, etc..., to help him survive and still be somewhat effective at higher levels.
3nigma
06-02-05, 12:50 PM I have a question regarding this, too:

I have a Druid with a wolf, the druid at level 3.

He doesn't want to abandon his wolf to go for a new animal, as for rolepalying reasons the whole party loves the wolf.

So, how do they advance properly? We see nowhere of the BAB going up, which is a turnoff.

Any help?
yonman
06-02-05, 01:00 PM Look in the Player's Handbook or the SRD under the Druid class and there will be a table to advance your Wolf according to the level of the Druid.

The Wolf's advancement is determined by the level of your character's Druid. Apply all of the relevant stats that are given to the Wolf as well as the special abilities.

Also, don't forget to add an additional Feat every 3 HD as well as Skill points for each HD received. You can find information on Skill points as well as additional monster feats in the Monster Manual in the back in the section for Improving Monsters.
kenichi
06-02-05, 02:02 PM A wolf gets d8 for hit dice and has a BAB of 3/4, the same as the druid. So a base wolf has 2 HD and at 3-5 Druid level the standard animal companion gains these benefits: +2 HD, +2 natural armor, +1 Str and Dex, +2 tricks, and Evasion.
The HD gained are d8s (plus Con mod as normal) and a 4 HD animal has a BAB equal to a 4th level druid and a wolf has good Reflex and Fort saves and poor Will saves as a 4th level character. Each Hit Dice gives the animal (4 + Int Modifier (-4) min. 1) so 1 Skill Point and the animal gains a feat at 3 HD, 6 HD, 9 HD, just like a character.
Note that advancing an animal companion does not increase it's size at all.
DHP
06-02-05, 02:17 PM Does an animal companion get ability increases for every 4 HD?
Beamup
06-02-05, 02:21 PM Does an animal companion get ability increases for every 4 HD?
It doesn't explicitly say so, but since skill points and feats are specifically noted to be "as normal" for having more HD, I'd say it's a pretty safe bet. Since the implication is that it's just like gaining more HD normally.
kenichi
06-02-05, 02:38 PM I agree with Beamup. Not explicitly stated like Feats and skill points are in the Druid animal companion section, but under the advancing monsters section is this: Treat monster Hit Dice the same as character level for determining ability score increases.
So it looks like they should get the ability bonuses for gaining HD, though they do not get bonus ability scores for HD they start with.
Either way though a total of +3 ability score points (max of +12 HD) isn't a huge deal.
Pax
06-02-05, 03:12 PM [..] but I was also wondering about the Dru's animal companions. I never really payed much attention to it but I suppose that you MUST choose from the list provided??
Yes, though other books add more options. You can also ASK your GM for any sort of animal companion - but she will likely look at the lists, figure out which grouping is ofcomparable power to what you've asked for, and assign the same level-reduction to the new animal as others in that power-group.

I am more familiar with the 3.0 version of animal companions and am kind of dissapointed and confused about the 3.5 version. Does this mean no more legendary animals??
you can have a legendary animal for a companion - but expect the level-reduction used to determine how much the animal is improved to be QUITE steep, once your GM assigns one. And, of course, your GM is as free as ever to simply say "nope, can't have one".

:( I also don't quite understand the decrease in animal ability according to Dru lvl. What does this mean?

Let's say you're a 10th level Druid.

If you pick one of the basic companions - say, a Wolf - then, on the table in the Animal Companiosn sidebar on page 36, you use the "9th-11th" line under "Class level" - the wolf gets 6 extra hit dice, a +6 increase in it's natural armor, a +3 bonus to strength, a +3 bonus to dexterity, the multiattack feat, devotion, evasion, link, and shared spells.

OTOH, if you pick a dire wolf - which requires you to be at least a 7th level druid, to begin with - well, Dire Wolves are better than Wolves. so, they get less of a benefit than basic wolves do; you subtract 6 from your druid level, and use THAT number (in this case, 4) on the table. a Dire Wolf gets only 2 extra hit dice, a +2 natural armor bonus, a +1 bonus to each of Strength and Dexterity, evasion, link, and shared spells.

IOW, the better the animal is BY ITSELf, the less improvement it get sfor being an animal Companion. Still, the Dire Wolf companion will be slightly better OVERALL, than the basic Wolf companion ... for the same druid.

Another thing to note: you only get ONE animal companion. Not swarms or flocks or whatnot.

As I said above, other books do include other possibilities. I've built a gestalt Cleric/Walker in the Wastes, gestalted with Ranger; he's a dry lich (IOw, undead), and his animal companionis a simple, basic Vulture (-0 druid levels) - the stats for vultures, and several other druid-suitable animal companions, are in Sandstorm; the modifiers list is on page 48, in a sidebar.

Just as a brief "sampler" to whet your appetite for that book, perhaps (and with the source in parentheses where needed):

Level -0: bat, camel, hyena, tressym (FRCS hardcover), vulture.

Level -3: crocodile, dire bat, puma (treat as leopard), dire toad (MM2)

Level -6: giant crocodile, dire hawk (MM2), rhinoceros

Level -9: dire snake, hippopotamus (Sandstorm)

level -12: elephant, giant banded lizard (Sandstorm)

Level -15: dire elephant (MM2), Roc

Note, that is hardly the entire list from Sandstorm. ^_^ But it might help you get mroe ideas as to what level-cost various more-powerful creatures might impose.
Eiko3
06-02-05, 03:31 PM Ahhhh!

Thanks to all those who replied...helped a lot :)

Now...

The HD gained are d8s (plus Con mod as normal) and a 4 HD animal has a BAB equal to a 4th level druid

I'm not quite sure I understand how BAB is determined for your animal companion.
Pax
06-02-05, 09:31 PM I'm not quite sure I understand how BAB is determined for your animal companion.
Not difficult.

Figure out how many hit dice the animal hs - TOTAL, both the ons intheir MM listing, and the bonus from being an animal companion.

Look at Table 3-8 on page 35 of hte PHB - the Druid class table. Find the line for the druid level equal to your animal's number of hit dice.

That line has a Base Attack Bonus listed there. That's the BAB your animal companion has.

And while were there, on that table? That's also the place to get the animal's Base Saves. ^_^ How's that for convenient!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Eiko3 06-01-05, 11:36 PM	I am really interested in creating a Druid for my next campaign but I'm totally confused about where to start and what abilities are the most effective. Obviously, Wild Shape comes to mind but I was also wondering about the Dru's animal companions. I never really payed much attention to it but I suppose that you MUST choose from the list provided?? I am more familiar with the 3.0 version of animal companions and am kind of dissapointed and confused about the 3.5 version. Does this mean no more legendary animals?? :( I also don't quite understand the decrease in animal ability according to Dru lvl. What does this mean? Thanks.
Jaid 06-01-05, 11:44 PM	whatever your DM approves can be changed. just make sure you don't go too far off on CR etc and you should be ok (most animals won't have too bad of a balance problem, legendary or not, if you just keep them available at the appropriate CR.) oh, and i should probably answer the rest of the post to the best of my ability as well =P druids can be pretty good at most things. wildshape is a powerful route, spellcasting (especially summoning) can be a powerful route, and they have decent skills too. pretty much pick something and go with it, a druid is versatile enough to be good at any of their special stuff and be worthwhile IMO.
Nephlite 06-01-05, 11:50 PM	I am really interested in creating a Druid for my next campaign but I'm totally confused about where to start and what abilities are the most effective. Obviously, Wild Shape comes to mind but I was also wondering about the Dru's animal companions. I never really payed much attention to it but I suppose that you MUST choose from the list provided?? I am more familiar with the 3.0 version of animal companions and am kind of dissapointed and confused about the 3.5 version. Does this mean no more legendary animals?? :( Thanks. Those are examples of creatures that you can get. You may get more, but remember the Druid level for Animal companion bonuses is reduced by a certain amount. The more powerful the animal the more it is reduced. This is for balanced because bears getting same power bonus as a wolf makes bears way overpowered so they reduced benefit. Are there even legendary animals in 3.5? I'm no druid expert so I'm asking.
Eiko3 06-02-05, 12:10 AM	Good to know that you aren't limited to the list. However, I did notice the reduction that the animals get and I'm not exactly sure what this means.
Pliskit 06-02-05, 02:55 AM	There´s actually no reduction. It´s just that if you´re a lvl 9 druid and you take a wolf for an animal companion, it upgrades. Because this is an animal of the lowest rank it gets no lvl adjustment according to the right table on page 36, so it gets the full bonuses from the left table on that same page: +6 bonus HD, +6 natural AC, +3 strength, +3 dex, 4 bonus tricks, link, share spells, evasion, devotion and multiattack. If you´re a lvl 9 druid and take a Brown Bear as a companion, it gets lvl adjustment -6 on the right table, which would put it in the 3rd to 5th class on the left table, thus giving it +2HD, +2AC, +1str, +1dex, 2 bonus tricks, link, share spells and evasion. This makes it possible for a higher lvl druid to maintain the animal he/she chose at earlier levels... However, the higher lvl animals are still better.
kenichi 06-02-05, 10:48 AM	Legendary animals were kind of a patch fix for 3.0 druids to keep a "normal" animal companion. In 3.0 your companion did not get any better, you had to get a new companion or an additional companion. In 3.5 they decided to allow your companion to advance with you rather than forcing you to abandon your companion every few levels, you can keep it and it advances with you. Where in 3.0 a druid would have to choose a legendary wolf, a 3.5 druid has a wolf that has been advanced (I don't know how the two compare to each other, but I would guess/hope they are fairly similar in combat ability), plus the advanced wolf gains another attack, improved evasion, additional HD, feats, etc..., to help him survive and still be somewhat effective at higher levels.
3nigma 06-02-05, 12:50 PM	I have a question regarding this, too: I have a Druid with a wolf, the druid at level 3. He doesn't want to abandon his wolf to go for a new animal, as for rolepalying reasons the whole party loves the wolf. So, how do they advance properly? We see nowhere of the BAB going up, which is a turnoff. Any help?
yonman 06-02-05, 01:00 PM	Look in the Player's Handbook or the SRD under the Druid class and there will be a table to advance your Wolf according to the level of the Druid. The Wolf's advancement is determined by the level of your character's Druid. Apply all of the relevant stats that are given to the Wolf as well as the special abilities. Also, don't forget to add an additional Feat every 3 HD as well as Skill points for each HD received. You can find information on Skill points as well as additional monster feats in the Monster Manual in the back in the section for Improving Monsters.
kenichi 06-02-05, 02:02 PM	A wolf gets d8 for hit dice and has a BAB of 3/4, the same as the druid. So a base wolf has 2 HD and at 3-5 Druid level the standard animal companion gains these benefits: +2 HD, +2 natural armor, +1 Str and Dex, +2 tricks, and Evasion. The HD gained are d8s (plus Con mod as normal) and a 4 HD animal has a BAB equal to a 4th level druid and a wolf has good Reflex and Fort saves and poor Will saves as a 4th level character. Each Hit Dice gives the animal (4 + Int Modifier (-4) min. 1) so 1 Skill Point and the animal gains a feat at 3 HD, 6 HD, 9 HD, just like a character. Note that advancing an animal companion does not increase it's size at all.
DHP 06-02-05, 02:17 PM	Does an animal companion get ability increases for every 4 HD?
Beamup 06-02-05, 02:21 PM	Does an animal companion get ability increases for every 4 HD? It doesn't explicitly say so, but since skill points and feats are specifically noted to be "as normal" for having more HD, I'd say it's a pretty safe bet. Since the implication is that it's just like gaining more HD normally.
kenichi 06-02-05, 02:38 PM	I agree with Beamup. Not explicitly stated like Feats and skill points are in the Druid animal companion section, but under the advancing monsters section is this: Treat monster Hit Dice the same as character level for determining ability score increases. So it looks like they should get the ability bonuses for gaining HD, though they do not get bonus ability scores for HD they start with. Either way though a total of +3 ability score points (max of +12 HD) isn't a huge deal.
Pax 06-02-05, 03:12 PM	[..] but I was also wondering about the Dru's animal companions. I never really payed much attention to it but I suppose that you MUST choose from the list provided?? Yes, though other books add more options. You can also ASK your GM for any sort of animal companion - but she will likely look at the lists, figure out which grouping is ofcomparable power to what you've asked for, and assign the same level-reduction to the new animal as others in that power-group. I am more familiar with the 3.0 version of animal companions and am kind of dissapointed and confused about the 3.5 version. Does this mean no more legendary animals?? you can have a legendary animal for a companion - but expect the level-reduction used to determine how much the animal is improved to be QUITE steep, once your GM assigns one. And, of course, your GM is as free as ever to simply say "nope, can't have one". :( I also don't quite understand the decrease in animal ability according to Dru lvl. What does this mean? Let's say you're a 10th level Druid. If you pick one of the basic companions - say, a Wolf - then, on the table in the Animal Companiosn sidebar on page 36, you use the "9th-11th" line under "Class level" - the wolf gets 6 extra hit dice, a +6 increase in it's natural armor, a +3 bonus to strength, a +3 bonus to dexterity, the multiattack feat, devotion, evasion, link, and shared spells. OTOH, if you pick a dire wolf - which requires you to be at least a 7th level druid, to begin with - well, Dire Wolves are better than Wolves. so, they get less of a benefit than basic wolves do; you subtract 6 from your druid level, and use THAT number (in this case, 4) on the table. a Dire Wolf gets only 2 extra hit dice, a +2 natural armor bonus, a +1 bonus to each of Strength and Dexterity, evasion, link, and shared spells. IOW, the better the animal is BY ITSELf, the less improvement it get sfor being an animal Companion. Still, the Dire Wolf companion will be slightly better OVERALL, than the basic Wolf companion ... for the same druid. Another thing to note: you only get ONE animal companion. Not swarms or flocks or whatnot. As I said above, other books do include other possibilities. I've built a gestalt Cleric/Walker in the Wastes, gestalted with Ranger; he's a dry lich (IOw, undead), and his animal companionis a simple, basic Vulture (-0 druid levels) - the stats for vultures, and several other druid-suitable animal companions, are in Sandstorm; the modifiers list is on page 48, in a sidebar. Just as a brief "sampler" to whet your appetite for that book, perhaps (and with the source in parentheses where needed): Level -0: bat, camel, hyena, tressym (FRCS hardcover), vulture. Level -3: crocodile, dire bat, puma (treat as leopard), dire toad (MM2) Level -6: giant crocodile, dire hawk (MM2), rhinoceros Level -9: dire snake, hippopotamus (Sandstorm) level -12: elephant, giant banded lizard (Sandstorm) Level -15: dire elephant (MM2), Roc Note, that is hardly the entire list from Sandstorm. ^_^ But it might help you get mroe ideas as to what level-cost various more-powerful creatures might impose.
Eiko3 06-02-05, 03:31 PM	Ahhhh! Thanks to all those who replied...helped a lot :) Now... The HD gained are d8s (plus Con mod as normal) and a 4 HD animal has a BAB equal to a 4th level druid I'm not quite sure I understand how BAB is determined for your animal companion.
Pax 06-02-05, 09:31 PM	I'm not quite sure I understand how BAB is determined for your animal companion. Not difficult. Figure out how many hit dice the animal hs - TOTAL, both the ons intheir MM listing, and the bonus from being an animal companion. Look at Table 3-8 on page 35 of hte PHB - the Druid class table. Find the line for the druid level equal to your animal's number of hit dice. That line has a Base Attack Bonus listed there. That's the BAB your animal companion has. And while were there, on that table? That's also the place to get the animal's Base Saves. ^_^ How's that for convenient!