3.5 Druid Redesign [Archive] - Wizards Community

3.5 Druid Redesign [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Darth_Cyric
07-10-07, 12:08 PM Ahh, my first attempt at a class redesign.

The Druid has a lot of cool features and flavor, but it's undeniably a little (okay, a lot) too powerful. He can do anything any other class can and do it all better, mostly because of Wild Shape, which literally makes Wisdom his only important stat.

I think back to the days of AD&D when Druids had a Charisma requirement to even qualify for the class. Yet, in 3.x, Charisma is the Druid's dump stat. How things have changed. Now, the only reason for a Druid to take Charisma is to be better at Wild Empathy, which alone is hardly a reason to invest in it.

The crux of this redesign is to make Charisma vital to the Druid, every bit as much as Wisdom is. In short, to increase the MAD of the Druid. Wild Shape was the target I chose. This also has a flavor justification, whereas: (1) Charisma can represent an intuitive connection to nature or the deities associated therein, much as Charisma for the Cleric represents an intuitive connection to positive and negative energy, and (2) Druids traditionally had to have high Charisma, as in AD&D. This redesign is not intended to remove features from the PHB Druid. Rather, it changes the means that the Druid obtains and powers these features.

I was going to tie the Druid's Animal Companion to Charisma as well, but that would hurt the Ranger just as much, so I decided against it. Instead, I have it affecting Wild Shape more profoundly than I originally planned to.

Feedback, of course, would be appreciated.

The Druid

GAME RULE INFORMATION

Druids have the following in-game statistics.

Abilities: Wisdom as PHB. Charisma is important as it enhances the Druid's ability to wild shape and improves her ability to empathize with the fauna.

Alignment: Must be neutral with respect to at least one axis (law vs. chaos, good vs. evil).

Hit Die: d8.

Class Skills

As PHB

The Druid Hit Die: d8

Base
Attack Fort Ref Will
Level BaB Save Save Save Special
1 +0 +2 +0 +2 Animal companion, nature sense, wild empathy
2 +1 +3 +0 +3 Woodland stride
3 +2 +3 +1 +3 Trackless step
4 +3 +4 +1 +4 Resist nature's lure
5 +3 +4 +1 +4 Wild shape (Small, Medium)
6 +4 +5 +2 +5
7 +5 +5 +2 +5
8 +6/+1 +6 +2 +6 Wild shape (Large)
9 +6/+1 +6 +3 +6 Venom immunity
10 +7/+2 +7 +3 +7
11 +8/+3 +7 +3 +7 Wild shape (Tiny)
12 +9/+4 +8 +4 +8 Wild shape (Plant)
13 +9/+4 +8 +4 +8 Deception
14 +10/+5 +9 +4 +9
15 +11/+6/+1 +9 +5 +9 Timeless body, wild shape (Huge)
16 +12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10 Wild shape (elemental 1/day from existing uses)
17 +12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10
18 +13/+8/+3 +11 +6 +11 Wild shape (elemental 2/day from existing uses)
19 +14/+9/+4 +11 +6 +11
20 +15/+10/+5 +12 +6 +12 Wild shape (elemental 3/day from existing uses, Huge elemental)

Class Features

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: As PHB

Spells: As PHB

Spontaneous Casting: As PHB

Chaotic, Evil, Good and Lawful Spells: As PHB

Bonus Languages: As PHB

Animal Companion (Ex): As PHB

Nature Sense (Ex): As PHB

Wild Empathy (Ex): As PHB

Woodland Stride (Ex): As PHB

Trackless Step (Ex): As PHB

Resist Nature's Lure (Ex): Starting at 4th level, a druid gains a bonus on saving throws equal to her charisma modifier, if positive, against the spell-like abilities of fey.

Wild Shape (Su): At 5th level, a druid gains the ability to turn herself into a Small or Medium animal and back again for a number of times per day equal to her charisma modifier. Thus, a druid must have a charisma score of at least 12 (+1 modifier) in order to wild shape at all. This ability functions like the alternate form special ability, except as noted here.

The effect lasts for 1 hour plus an additional hour for every two points of positive charisma modifier, or until she changes back. For example, the wild shape effect of a 7th-level druid with a charisma score of 13 (+1 modifier) lasts one hour. If the druid advances to 8th level and elects to advance charisma an extra point (thereby raising her charisma score to 14), her wild shape effect lasts two hours (the minimum one hour, plus the extra hour granted by her new +2 charisma modifier). Changing form (to animal or back) is a standard action and doesn’t provoke an attack of opportunity.

Any gear worn or carried by the druid melds into the new form and becomes nonfunctional. When the druid reverts to her true form, any objects previously melded into the new form reappear in the same location on her body that they previously occupied and are once again functional. Any new items worn in the assumed form fall off and land at the druid's feet.

The druid may learn a number of forms equal to her ranks in the Knowledge (nature) skill. Should the druid advance in ranks in the Knowledge (nature) skill upon gaining levels, her repertoire of known forms increases accordingly. Her options for new forms include all creatures with the animal type. The forms chosen must be those of animals the druid is familiar with.

A druid loses her ability to speak while in animal form because she is limited to the sounds that a normal, untrained animal can make, but she can communicate normally with other animals of the same general grouping as her new form. (The normal sound a wild parrot makes is a squawk, so changing to this form does not permit speech.)

A druid gains the ability to learn forms of Large animals at 8th level, Tiny animals at 11th level, and Huge animals at 15th level.

The new form’s Hit Dice can’t exceed the character’s druid level.

At 12th level, a druid may select a plant creature as one of her new wild shape forms with the same size restrictions as for animal forms. (A druid can’t choose the form of a plant that isn’t a creature.)

At 16th level, a druid becomes able to use wild shape to change into a Small, Medium, or Large elemental (air, earth, fire, or water) once per day. These elemental forms are in addition to the number of forms she knows from her ranks in the Knowledge (nature) skill. She must use one of her daily wild shapes granted by her charisma modifier. Thus, a 16th-level druid with a charisma score of 18, who gets four uses of wild shape per day, may elect to spend one of those uses per day to become an elemental. She would have three wild shape uses remaining, but could not use any of the three remaining uses to become an elemental again that day. In addition to the normal effects of wild shape, the druid gains all the elemental’s extraordinary, supernatural, and spell-like abilities. She also gains the elemental’s feats for as long as she maintains the wild shape, but she retains her own creature type.

At 18th level, a druid becomes able to assume elemental form twice per day, and at 20th level she can do so three times per day. At 20th level, a druid may use this wild shape ability to change into a Huge elemental.

Venom Immunity (Ex): As PHB

Deception (Su): At 13th level, a druid gains the ability to change her appearance as if using the disguise self spell, for a number of times per day equal to her charisma modifier, but only while in her normal form. This affects the druid’s body but not her possessions. It is not an illusory effect, but a minor physical alteration of the druid’s appearance, within the limits described for the spell.

Timeless Body (Ex): As PHB

Ex-Druids

A druid who ceases to revere nature, changes to a prohibited alignment, or teaches the Druidic language to a nondruid loses all spells and druid abilities (including her animal companion, but not including weapon, armor, and shield proficiencies). She cannot thereafter gain levels as a druid until she atones (see the atonement spell description).

Feats of Note

Natural Spell [General]
Prerequisites
Wis 13, Cha 13, wild shape ability.

Benefit
You can complete the verbal and somatic components of spells up to 3rd level while in a wild shape. You substitute various noises and gestures for the normal verbal and somatic components of a spell.

You can also use any material components or focuses you possess, even if such items are melded within your current form. This feat does not permit the use of magic items while you are in a form that could not ordinarily use them, and you do not gain the ability to speak while in a wild shape.

Improved Natural Spell [General]
Prerequisites
Wis 15, Cha 15, Natural Spell, wild shape ability.

Benefit
You can complete the verbal and somatic components of spells up to 6th level while in a wild shape.

Greater Natural Spell [General]
Prerequisites
Wis 17, Cha 17, Natural Spell, Improved Natural Spell, wild shape ability.

Benefit
You can complete the verbal and somatic components of spells up to 9th level while in a wild shape.
Darth_Cyric
07-12-07, 03:44 PM Feedback, please.
Shmeff
07-12-07, 04:15 PM I like the natural spell fix, by seperating it into 3 feats, it gives less incentive for a druid to dump all phisical stats and just take 1 feat to balance. 3 Feats can be a big deal, ispecially if not playing with flaws.
GhostStepper
07-12-07, 04:44 PM One of the biggest issues with wildshape which is currently (and always) being argued in another thread is the matter of familiarity. What "familiar" means in game needs to be clearly defined.
zelf_gale
07-12-07, 05:14 PM I like the Animorphs limitation, that being the morpher needs to have touched an animal to take its form. Which only gives druids even more reasons to hang out at zoos while in the city.
The_Jhereg
07-12-07, 06:49 PM It is my opinion that most limitations based on familiarity probably don't matter in a game where a player can begin play as a "middle-aged elf" and have been wandering the wilds studying nature across most of your campaign setting and familiarizing themselves with all manner of wildlife for the past thirty years, as part of a coherent and extremely logical minimalistic backstory for a Druid. Seriously, as far as I can tell most of a druid's time is spent revering, worshipping, living in, and studying nature, and any rule that makes having your character having actually done some of that before beginning the campaign is probably going to be somewhat ineffective at actually limiting characters.
GhostStepper
07-12-07, 06:52 PM It is my opinion that most limitations based on familiarity probably don't matter in a game where a player can begin play as a "middle-aged elf" and have been wandering the wilds studying nature across most of your campaign setting and familiarizing themselves with all manner of wildlife for the past thirty years, as part of a coherent and extremely logical minimalistic backstory for a Druid. Seriously, as far as I can tell most of a druid's time is spent revering, worshipping, living in, and studying nature, and any rule that makes having your character having actually done some of that before beginning the campaign is probably going to be somewhat ineffective at actually limiting characters.

This is exactly why we need rules for familiarity.
SilvercatMoonpaw
07-12-07, 06:56 PM This actually seems more powerful than the standard druid because you get extra stuff when you have a Charisma bonus: extra wild shapes, extra duration. I also don't like how the Deception ability depowers what was a minor issue with the original class. And with Natural Spell still existing the issue of druids simply remaining in Wildshape all day has not been addressed (but making it three feats is a good start).
Darth_Cyric
07-12-07, 07:22 PM This actually seems more powerful than the standard druid because you get extra stuff when you have a Charisma bonus: extra wild shapes, extra duration.
Yes, but compare it to its standard form.

Standard @ Lv. 20: 6 Wild Shapes, 3 Elemental Shapes in addition (so 9 total), all of them lasting 20 hours at a time. And the standard Druid doesn't have to pay any mind to Charisma.

On the other hand, this Druid w/ CHA 18 @ Lv. 20: 4 Wild Shapes total (Elemental Shape must be taken out of those), all of them lasting 3 hours at a time.

I don't think there's any question that I nerfed Wild Shape. The question is, did I nerf it enough? If I didn't, is there something else I could do to it within reason?

And with Natural Spell still existing the issue of druids simply remaining in Wildshape all day has not been addressed (but making it three feats is a good start).
I also added Charisma requirements to those to make them more difficult to qualify for.

I'm also going to concede that, mechanically, the best thing to do would be to remove Natural Spell altogether. But it is also admittedly a cool feature that adds to flavor, so instead of removing it, I tried to refine the concept, making it grant much power, but at a steep price.
unundindur
07-12-07, 07:48 PM Cannot wildshape simply have a duration, like rage? I mean, why?
Darth_Cyric
07-12-07, 08:12 PM This is exactly why we need rules for familiarity.
Or how about a mumerical limit to the forms a druid can use, based on knowledge? It's one thing to be familiar with an animal, but it's another thing to be intimately familiar enough with one to shape into it. I added this edit (which is in my first post as well):

The druid may learn a number of forms equal to her ranks in the Knowledge (nature) skill. Should the druid advance in ranks in the Knowledge (nature) skill upon gaining levels, her repertoire of known forms increases accordingly. Her options for new forms include all creatures with the animal type. The forms chosen must be those of animals the druid is familiar with.

A druid loses her ability to speak while in animal form because she is limited to the sounds that a normal, untrained animal can make, but she can communicate normally with other animals of the same general grouping as her new form. (The normal sound a wild parrot makes is a squawk, so changing to this form does not permit speech.)

A druid gains the ability to learn forms of Large animals at 8th level, Tiny animals at 11th level, and Huge animals at 15th level.

The new form’s Hit Dice can’t exceed the character’s druid level.

At 12th level, a druid may select a plant creature as one of her new wild shape forms with the same size restrictions as for animal forms. (A druid can’t choose the form of a plant that isn’t a creature.)

At 16th level, a druid becomes able to use wild shape to change into a Small, Medium, or Large elemental (air, earth, fire, or water) once per day. These elemental forms are in addition to the number of forms she knows from her ranks in the Knowledge (nature) skill.
runestar
07-12-07, 10:36 PM One of the biggest issues with wildshape which is currently (and always) being argued in another thread is the matter of familiarity. What "familiar" means in game needs to be clearly defined.
It was probably left vague deliberately so that individual DMs could decide just what "familiarity" constituted. Personally, I would just leave it that way. I do not think it is possible to decide on one single interpretation which everyone will be comfortable with, so I will just leave this unenviable task to the DMs themselves.

I think it was once mentioned that the problem with druids was not much due to a single overpowered ability, but rather, several strong points working together in a harmonious whole. Effectively, the sum is greater than their parts. You want to "fix" druids, you will have to tackle all of them, rather than focusing on just 1 or 2 key aspects.

Natural spell nerfing would simply mean that the druid focuses more on pre-combat and longer duration buffs, and less so on attack spells, I suppose. Stormwind would be in the best position to comment on this.:)
knuck
07-13-07, 12:20 AM This is exactly why we need rules for familiarity.

Like someone else in this thread said, I was thinking something similar to the "spells known" mechanics. Knowledge (Nature) wouldn't help at all to increase the number of "Animals Known". Only the WIS modifier.
I won't go into details because I really have no idea how to make such a mechanic.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Darth_Cyric 07-10-07, 12:08 PM	Ahh, my first attempt at a class redesign. The Druid has a lot of cool features and flavor, but it's undeniably a little (okay, a lot) too powerful. He can do anything any other class can and do it all better, mostly because of Wild Shape, which literally makes Wisdom his only important stat. I think back to the days of AD&D when Druids had a Charisma requirement to even qualify for the class. Yet, in 3.x, Charisma is the Druid's dump stat. How things have changed. Now, the only reason for a Druid to take Charisma is to be better at Wild Empathy, which alone is hardly a reason to invest in it. The crux of this redesign is to make Charisma vital to the Druid, every bit as much as Wisdom is. In short, to increase the MAD of the Druid. Wild Shape was the target I chose. This also has a flavor justification, whereas: (1) Charisma can represent an intuitive connection to nature or the deities associated therein, much as Charisma for the Cleric represents an intuitive connection to positive and negative energy, and (2) Druids traditionally had to have high Charisma, as in AD&D. This redesign is not intended to remove features from the PHB Druid. Rather, it changes the means that the Druid obtains and powers these features. I was going to tie the Druid's Animal Companion to Charisma as well, but that would hurt the Ranger just as much, so I decided against it. Instead, I have it affecting Wild Shape more profoundly than I originally planned to. Feedback, of course, would be appreciated. The Druid GAME RULE INFORMATION Druids have the following in-game statistics. Abilities: Wisdom as PHB. Charisma is important as it enhances the Druid's ability to wild shape and improves her ability to empathize with the fauna. Alignment: Must be neutral with respect to at least one axis (law vs. chaos, good vs. evil). Hit Die: d8. Class Skills As PHB The Druid Hit Die: d8 Base Attack Fort Ref Will Level BaB Save Save Save Special 1 +0 +2 +0 +2 Animal companion, nature sense, wild empathy 2 +1 +3 +0 +3 Woodland stride 3 +2 +3 +1 +3 Trackless step 4 +3 +4 +1 +4 Resist nature's lure 5 +3 +4 +1 +4 Wild shape (Small, Medium) 6 +4 +5 +2 +5 7 +5 +5 +2 +5 8 +6/+1 +6 +2 +6 Wild shape (Large) 9 +6/+1 +6 +3 +6 Venom immunity 10 +7/+2 +7 +3 +7 11 +8/+3 +7 +3 +7 Wild shape (Tiny) 12 +9/+4 +8 +4 +8 Wild shape (Plant) 13 +9/+4 +8 +4 +8 Deception 14 +10/+5 +9 +4 +9 15 +11/+6/+1 +9 +5 +9 Timeless body, wild shape (Huge) 16 +12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10 Wild shape (elemental 1/day from existing uses) 17 +12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10 18 +13/+8/+3 +11 +6 +11 Wild shape (elemental 2/day from existing uses) 19 +14/+9/+4 +11 +6 +11 20 +15/+10/+5 +12 +6 +12 Wild shape (elemental 3/day from existing uses, Huge elemental) Class Features Weapon and Armor Proficiency: As PHB Spells: As PHB Spontaneous Casting: As PHB Chaotic, Evil, Good and Lawful Spells: As PHB Bonus Languages: As PHB Animal Companion (Ex): As PHB Nature Sense (Ex): As PHB Wild Empathy (Ex): As PHB Woodland Stride (Ex): As PHB Trackless Step (Ex): As PHB Resist Nature's Lure (Ex): Starting at 4th level, a druid gains a bonus on saving throws equal to her charisma modifier, if positive, against the spell-like abilities of fey. Wild Shape (Su): At 5th level, a druid gains the ability to turn herself into a Small or Medium animal and back again for a number of times per day equal to her charisma modifier. Thus, a druid must have a charisma score of at least 12 (+1 modifier) in order to wild shape at all. This ability functions like the alternate form special ability, except as noted here. The effect lasts for 1 hour plus an additional hour for every two points of positive charisma modifier, or until she changes back. For example, the wild shape effect of a 7th-level druid with a charisma score of 13 (+1 modifier) lasts one hour. If the druid advances to 8th level and elects to advance charisma an extra point (thereby raising her charisma score to 14), her wild shape effect lasts two hours (the minimum one hour, plus the extra hour granted by her new +2 charisma modifier). Changing form (to animal or back) is a standard action and doesn’t provoke an attack of opportunity. Any gear worn or carried by the druid melds into the new form and becomes nonfunctional. When the druid reverts to her true form, any objects previously melded into the new form reappear in the same location on her body that they previously occupied and are once again functional. Any new items worn in the assumed form fall off and land at the druid's feet. The druid may learn a number of forms equal to her ranks in the Knowledge (nature) skill. Should the druid advance in ranks in the Knowledge (nature) skill upon gaining levels, her repertoire of known forms increases accordingly. Her options for new forms include all creatures with the animal type. The forms chosen must be those of animals the druid is familiar with. A druid loses her ability to speak while in animal form because she is limited to the sounds that a normal, untrained animal can make, but she can communicate normally with other animals of the same general grouping as her new form. (The normal sound a wild parrot makes is a squawk, so changing to this form does not permit speech.) A druid gains the ability to learn forms of Large animals at 8th level, Tiny animals at 11th level, and Huge animals at 15th level. The new form’s Hit Dice can’t exceed the character’s druid level. At 12th level, a druid may select a plant creature as one of her new wild shape forms with the same size restrictions as for animal forms. (A druid can’t choose the form of a plant that isn’t a creature.) At 16th level, a druid becomes able to use wild shape to change into a Small, Medium, or Large elemental (air, earth, fire, or water) once per day. These elemental forms are in addition to the number of forms she knows from her ranks in the Knowledge (nature) skill. She must use one of her daily wild shapes granted by her charisma modifier. Thus, a 16th-level druid with a charisma score of 18, who gets four uses of wild shape per day, may elect to spend one of those uses per day to become an elemental. She would have three wild shape uses remaining, but could not use any of the three remaining uses to become an elemental again that day. In addition to the normal effects of wild shape, the druid gains all the elemental’s extraordinary, supernatural, and spell-like abilities. She also gains the elemental’s feats for as long as she maintains the wild shape, but she retains her own creature type. At 18th level, a druid becomes able to assume elemental form twice per day, and at 20th level she can do so three times per day. At 20th level, a druid may use this wild shape ability to change into a Huge elemental. Venom Immunity (Ex): As PHB Deception (Su): At 13th level, a druid gains the ability to change her appearance as if using the disguise self spell, for a number of times per day equal to her charisma modifier, but only while in her normal form. This affects the druid’s body but not her possessions. It is not an illusory effect, but a minor physical alteration of the druid’s appearance, within the limits described for the spell. Timeless Body (Ex): As PHB Ex-Druids A druid who ceases to revere nature, changes to a prohibited alignment, or teaches the Druidic language to a nondruid loses all spells and druid abilities (including her animal companion, but not including weapon, armor, and shield proficiencies). She cannot thereafter gain levels as a druid until she atones (see the atonement spell description). Feats of Note Natural Spell [General] Prerequisites Wis 13, Cha 13, wild shape ability. Benefit You can complete the verbal and somatic components of spells up to 3rd level while in a wild shape. You substitute various noises and gestures for the normal verbal and somatic components of a spell. You can also use any material components or focuses you possess, even if such items are melded within your current form. This feat does not permit the use of magic items while you are in a form that could not ordinarily use them, and you do not gain the ability to speak while in a wild shape. Improved Natural Spell [General] Prerequisites Wis 15, Cha 15, Natural Spell, wild shape ability. Benefit You can complete the verbal and somatic components of spells up to 6th level while in a wild shape. Greater Natural Spell [General] Prerequisites Wis 17, Cha 17, Natural Spell, Improved Natural Spell, wild shape ability. Benefit You can complete the verbal and somatic components of spells up to 9th level while in a wild shape.
Darth_Cyric 07-12-07, 03:44 PM	Feedback, please.
Shmeff 07-12-07, 04:15 PM	I like the natural spell fix, by seperating it into 3 feats, it gives less incentive for a druid to dump all phisical stats and just take 1 feat to balance. 3 Feats can be a big deal, ispecially if not playing with flaws.
GhostStepper 07-12-07, 04:44 PM	One of the biggest issues with wildshape which is currently (and always) being argued in another thread is the matter of familiarity. What "familiar" means in game needs to be clearly defined.
zelf_gale 07-12-07, 05:14 PM	I like the Animorphs limitation, that being the morpher needs to have touched an animal to take its form. Which only gives druids even more reasons to hang out at zoos while in the city.
The_Jhereg 07-12-07, 06:49 PM	It is my opinion that most limitations based on familiarity probably don't matter in a game where a player can begin play as a "middle-aged elf" and have been wandering the wilds studying nature across most of your campaign setting and familiarizing themselves with all manner of wildlife for the past thirty years, as part of a coherent and extremely logical minimalistic backstory for a Druid. Seriously, as far as I can tell most of a druid's time is spent revering, worshipping, living in, and studying nature, and any rule that makes having your character having actually done some of that before beginning the campaign is probably going to be somewhat ineffective at actually limiting characters.
GhostStepper 07-12-07, 06:52 PM	It is my opinion that most limitations based on familiarity probably don't matter in a game where a player can begin play as a "middle-aged elf" and have been wandering the wilds studying nature across most of your campaign setting and familiarizing themselves with all manner of wildlife for the past thirty years, as part of a coherent and extremely logical minimalistic backstory for a Druid. Seriously, as far as I can tell most of a druid's time is spent revering, worshipping, living in, and studying nature, and any rule that makes having your character having actually done some of that before beginning the campaign is probably going to be somewhat ineffective at actually limiting characters. This is exactly why we need rules for familiarity.
SilvercatMoonpaw 07-12-07, 06:56 PM	This actually seems more powerful than the standard druid because you get extra stuff when you have a Charisma bonus: extra wild shapes, extra duration. I also don't like how the Deception ability depowers what was a minor issue with the original class. And with Natural Spell still existing the issue of druids simply remaining in Wildshape all day has not been addressed (but making it three feats is a good start).
Darth_Cyric 07-12-07, 07:22 PM	This actually seems more powerful than the standard druid because you get extra stuff when you have a Charisma bonus: extra wild shapes, extra duration. Yes, but compare it to its standard form. Standard @ Lv. 20: 6 Wild Shapes, 3 Elemental Shapes in addition (so 9 total), all of them lasting 20 hours at a time. And the standard Druid doesn't have to pay any mind to Charisma. On the other hand, this Druid w/ CHA 18 @ Lv. 20: 4 Wild Shapes total (Elemental Shape must be taken out of those), all of them lasting 3 hours at a time. I don't think there's any question that I nerfed Wild Shape. The question is, did I nerf it enough? If I didn't, is there something else I could do to it within reason? And with Natural Spell still existing the issue of druids simply remaining in Wildshape all day has not been addressed (but making it three feats is a good start). I also added Charisma requirements to those to make them more difficult to qualify for. I'm also going to concede that, mechanically, the best thing to do would be to remove Natural Spell altogether. But it is also admittedly a cool feature that adds to flavor, so instead of removing it, I tried to refine the concept, making it grant much power, but at a steep price.
unundindur 07-12-07, 07:48 PM	Cannot wildshape simply have a duration, like rage? I mean, why?
Darth_Cyric 07-12-07, 08:12 PM	This is exactly why we need rules for familiarity. Or how about a mumerical limit to the forms a druid can use, based on knowledge? It's one thing to be familiar with an animal, but it's another thing to be intimately familiar enough with one to shape into it. I added this edit (which is in my first post as well): The druid may learn a number of forms equal to her ranks in the Knowledge (nature) skill. Should the druid advance in ranks in the Knowledge (nature) skill upon gaining levels, her repertoire of known forms increases accordingly. Her options for new forms include all creatures with the animal type. The forms chosen must be those of animals the druid is familiar with. A druid loses her ability to speak while in animal form because she is limited to the sounds that a normal, untrained animal can make, but she can communicate normally with other animals of the same general grouping as her new form. (The normal sound a wild parrot makes is a squawk, so changing to this form does not permit speech.) A druid gains the ability to learn forms of Large animals at 8th level, Tiny animals at 11th level, and Huge animals at 15th level. The new form’s Hit Dice can’t exceed the character’s druid level. At 12th level, a druid may select a plant creature as one of her new wild shape forms with the same size restrictions as for animal forms. (A druid can’t choose the form of a plant that isn’t a creature.) At 16th level, a druid becomes able to use wild shape to change into a Small, Medium, or Large elemental (air, earth, fire, or water) once per day. These elemental forms are in addition to the number of forms she knows from her ranks in the Knowledge (nature) skill.
runestar 07-12-07, 10:36 PM	One of the biggest issues with wildshape which is currently (and always) being argued in another thread is the matter of familiarity. What "familiar" means in game needs to be clearly defined. It was probably left vague deliberately so that individual DMs could decide just what "familiarity" constituted. Personally, I would just leave it that way. I do not think it is possible to decide on one single interpretation which everyone will be comfortable with, so I will just leave this unenviable task to the DMs themselves. I think it was once mentioned that the problem with druids was not much due to a single overpowered ability, but rather, several strong points working together in a harmonious whole. Effectively, the sum is greater than their parts. You want to "fix" druids, you will have to tackle all of them, rather than focusing on just 1 or 2 key aspects. Natural spell nerfing would simply mean that the druid focuses more on pre-combat and longer duration buffs, and less so on attack spells, I suppose. Stormwind would be in the best position to comment on this.:)
knuck 07-13-07, 12:20 AM	This is exactly why we need rules for familiarity. Like someone else in this thread said, I was thinking something similar to the "spells known" mechanics. Knowledge (Nature) wouldn't help at all to increase the number of "Animals Known". Only the WIS modifier. I won't go into details because I really have no idea how to make such a mechanic.