32pt system and wizard.. [Archive] - Wizards Community

32pt system and wizard.. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
darkestRose
10-18-06, 07:17 PM Need help, tips/ opinions on building a power wizard based character.. ex: (fighter/wizard/eldricth knight.. / fighter/wizard/spellsword) etc... need a good race to best suit spellcasting and ideas on feats for the spells..

Note :(DM allows us to take (min)1-5(max) from a single ability score to add to the 32 pts to make it 37, ex: ability score of 8 is 0 points, i can take that 8 and take 5 points away to make it 3(-4mod) to add those 5 pts to the 32points for 37..
Tony Vargas
10-18-06, 07:49 PM Try the Character Optimization board.

When you do, be sure to give a complete list of all the books available to you, and anything your DM bans or house-rules away. You'll also get bettter responses the more precise you are in what you want your character to be/be able to do.
Millennium
10-18-06, 09:31 PM Cross-posting BAD.

But again, I'll warn you not to take the DM up on his offer to lower your stats below 8. I don't think he's trying to scam you, but the buyback rates he's offering aren't good: you'll lose much more than you stand to gain.
Grey_Mage
10-18-06, 11:04 PM Seriously... its bad enough having a stat under 10 if you can help it... apart from role playing reasons anyways. A person with CHA or DEX 4? :O

For a first level Wizard? Hmm... *brushes up on his point buy rules*

Race: Elf
Class- Wizard, Sub Level Taken for Universalist Wizardry.

Str: 10 Dex: 14 Con: 12 Int:18 Wis: 10 Cha: 10
or 2/4/6/16/2/2

So... Lets see... What else? ahh yes.

Skills: Spellcraft 4, Concentration 4, Decipher Script 4, Knowledge Arcana 4, Knowledge Geography 4, Knowledge History 4. I like them knowledgeable... feel free to change the last to... or heck, all of it as its your character.

Familiar: Im Partial to the Raven and the Weasel... personally.

Feat: Collegiate Wizard, or Spellcasting Prodigy. Collegiate Wizard gives you twice as many spells per level in your spellbook and a bonus to Arcana checks. Spellcasting prodigy gives you +2 Int for the purposes of extra spells... meaning that youll actually have four first level spells at level one with this build. Really the question becomes do you want the long term pay off or the short term payoff?

Standard adventurers kit... plus spellbook... maybe some powdered silver, ink, and pens to go with that... should do yah right fine.
Zariell
10-18-06, 11:52 PM ^ A nice summary

Int and Dex are really your main stats, Int effects the power of your spells, languages, skills, all of which you use constantly as a wizard.

I would advise against combining a melee class with a wizard specificly (It just dosn't work. To make it work, you gimp both your melee output and spell output both at an early level, mid level, and late level). That being said, there are tons of non-wizard spell casting melee classes that would probably suite you better.

If you must, I would go a dex-based melee class (Weapon Finesse), with something like a Elven Chain Shirt to minimize spell failure. Just don't forget about your intellect.
Seerow
10-18-06, 11:56 PM Str: 10 Dex: 14 Con: 12 Int:18 Wis: 10 Cha: 10
or 2/4/6/16/2/2

I'd dump Charisma fully and bump the con up 2 points. As a Wizard you really want those extra hit points.

In fact, I'm tempted to make an argument for Dwarf or Gnome over Elf for the Wizard, but eh.
Krusk
10-19-06, 01:22 AM Feat: Collegiate Wizard, or Spellcasting Prodigy. Collegiate Wizard gives you twice as many spells per level in your spellbook and a bonus to Arcana checks. Spellcasting prodigy gives you +2 Int for the purposes of extra spells... meaning that youll actually have four first level spells at level one with this build. Really the question becomes do you want the long term pay off or the short term payoff?

Just wondering, what books are those feats in? cause they would be really useful for me.

id also go for dumping the cha to 8 and raising the con or str if its possible for you. cause your trying to gish you need a decent con or str.
Squirrelloid
10-19-06, 01:54 AM Seriously... its bad enough having a stat under 10 if you can help it... apart from role playing reasons anyways. A person with CHA or DEX 4? :O

For a first level Wizard? Hmm... *brushes up on his point buy rules*

Race: Elf
Class- Wizard, Sub Level Taken for Universalist Wizardry.

Str: 10 Dex: 14 Con: 12 Int:18 Wis: 10 Cha: 10
or 2/4/6/16/2/2

So... Lets see... What else? ahh yes.

Skills: Spellcraft 4, Concentration 4, Decipher Script 4, Knowledge Arcana 4, Knowledge Geography 4, Knowledge History 4. I like them knowledgeable... feel free to change the last to... or heck, all of it as its your character.

Familiar: Im Partial to the Raven and the Weasel... personally.

Feat: Collegiate Wizard, or Spellcasting Prodigy. Collegiate Wizard gives you twice as many spells per level in your spellbook and a bonus to Arcana checks. Spellcasting prodigy gives you +2 Int for the purposes of extra spells... meaning that youll actually have four first level spells at level one with this build. Really the question becomes do you want the long term pay off or the short term payoff?

Standard adventurers kit... plus spellbook... maybe some powdered silver, ink, and pens to go with that... should do yah right fine.

Some of this advice is questionable depending on the sources available to you, and the level you start at. I dislike both spellcasting prodigy and collegiate wizard in any case, though collegiate's bonus is slightly better.

Race: You want Gray Elf - don't be a Gish. +2 int -2 str ftw! (Its core, sub-race listed in the MM, confirm the DM is allowing them).

Stat buy: Str 8-2 Dex 12+2 Con 16-2 Int 18+2 Wis 10 Cha 8 (32pts), might want 12 wis and 10 dex instead. If starting at a level polymorph is available, sack dex and maybe con depending on which polymorph rules are used.

Advantages: Gray Elves get all the elf bonuses and a better stat trade off for wizards. Especially once you get to Polymorph and don't care about any physical stats except con (maybe). Elf substitution levels are awesome, specialize in necromancy.

OR: You want Human or Dwarf - be a gish. (Elves make awful gishes because the con is more important than the dex).

Pre-racial: Str 16 Dex 12 Con 14 Int 16 Wis 10 Cha 8

Human: get extra skills and a feat - this is a huge help for early bang, and the skills keep paying off. Try to pick up tumble somewhere during the multi-classing, its the best battle skill ever.

Dwarf: Darkvision and trading con for a stat you won't ever use. What's not to like? Oh yeah, slow movement rate with no armor potential - this goes away when you get polymorph, but it does hurt until then.

Build: Knowing what sources and what starting level really matters. Also, what level of "cheese" is allowed. I mean, in an any source RAW campaign you want Incantatrix/Iot7FV/Archmage or Incantatrix/Fatespinner/Archmage, but Incantatrix has about a 50% chance of being banned, and most of the others require CA. Archmage is the only core one, and a duh option if you can take it.

I can't provide any advice on feats until i know what PrCs are fair game. pre-reqs are important, and that's going to be your first priority for feats, since spells are sufficient class features for most purposes.
Rhomphaia
10-19-06, 02:11 AM Here is my take on it using only the PHB.

First, either gnome or halfling as a race (I would use gnome) with one of the following ability scores arrays (before racial adjustments).

10, 14, 10, 18, 12, 10 -or- 8, 14, 12, 18, 14, 8.

Then grab yourself the following skills (ranks only);
Concentration 4, Decipher Script 3, Knowledge (arcane) 4, Knowledge (architecture) 1, Knowledge (dungeoneering) 1, Knowledge (geography) 1, Knowledge (history) 1, Knowledge (local) 1, Knowledge (nature), Knowledge (nobility) 1, Knowledge (religion) 1, Knowledge (the planes) 1, Spellcraft 4.

As a feat, I would strongly recommend Spell Focus (illusion).

For your first level spells, I would choose the following; Shield, Reduce Person, Color Spray, Magic Missile, Feather Fall, Sleep and Summon Monster I.

Hope this gives ya some ideas.
Grey_Mage
10-19-06, 03:29 AM Just wondering, what books are those feats in? cause they would be really useful for me.

id also go for dumping the cha to 8 and raising the con or str if its possible for you. cause your trying to gish you need a decent con or str.

Well.. first off... @ OP: Sorry about that... somehow I completely missed the Gish part. Brain fart....:confused: In that case youll probly want to drop Cha to an 8, and bump up str to a 12. Or even co Str 14, Dex 12... unless youd like to be a ranged gish? *shrugs*. Personally I like pure wizards more most of the time.

As for you Krusk, Collegiate Wizard is Complete Arcane... 180... 181? and Spellcasting Prodigy is from players guide to Faerun... somehwere around pg 43 off the top of my head. Both are first level only, and collegiate wizard is also Int 13, Wizard 1. As a human wizard Ill occaisionally take both... but RP wise I generally stay away from SCP, personal preference there.

Of course... I dont like point buy at all... so I tend to try to min/max what I can.
AZNsupermarket
10-19-06, 07:27 AM Stats I'm using for my character in an upcoming game:

Middle-Aged Grey Elf Wizard (32 point buy)

Str 5, -3 (0 points, -2 race penalty, -1 age penalty)
Dex 16, +3 (8 points, +2 race bonus, -1 age penalty)
Con 12, +1 (8 points, -2 race penalty, -1 age penalty)
Int 21, +5 (16 points, +2 race bonus, +1 age bonus)
Wis 9, -1 (0 points, +1 age bonus)
Cha 9, -1 (0 points, +1 age bonus)

We are starting a level 6, so I will be able to raise that 21 to a 22 for the one ability increase.
angryman
10-19-06, 08:58 AM Stats I'm using for my character in an upcoming game:

Middle-Aged Grey Elf Wizard (32 point buy)

Str 5, -3 (0 points, -2 race penalty, -1 age penalty)
Dex 16, +3 (8 points, +2 race bonus, -1 age penalty)
Con 12, +1 (8 points, -2 race penalty, -1 age penalty)
Int 21, +5 (16 points, +2 race bonus, +1 age bonus)
Wis 9, -1 (0 points, +1 age bonus)
Cha 9, -1 (0 points, +1 age bonus)

We are starting a level 6, so I will be able to raise that 21 to a 22 for the one ability increase.

That character is just *itching* for a ray of enfeeblement. haha!
RobbyPants
10-19-06, 09:10 AM For the stats, I'd recomend:
Str 16
Dex 12
Con 14
Int 16
Wis 10
Cha 8
These would work for my build below:

I'm making a simlar gish build for a different game. I'm not sure how optimized it is, but its a dwarf, and his 20 level build is Ftr 1 / Wiz 6 / SpellSword 3 / Eldritch Knight 10.

This build will give you a BAB of 17 and 9th level spells (17th level wizard) at 20th level. I think the feats I took by 9th level were:

Scribe Scroll (Wiz 1)
Sudden Widen (Lvl 1)
Practiced Spellcaster(Ftr 1)
Power Attack (Lvl 3)
Arcane Strike (Lvl 6)
Sudden Maximize (Wiz 5)
Improved Sunder (SpSw 2)
Combat Brute (Lvl 9)

The reason for the spellsword 3 is that I get ignore ASF 15%. With that, I can cast in Mithril Twilight fullplate, which brings the ASF of the fullplate from 35% down to 15%.

Anyway, that's the idea I had. Use what you want. Good luck! :D
starfire311
10-19-06, 09:25 AM aside from Robby these are some of the absolute worst Gishes I have ever seen.

If you are looking for a Gish you are really better off on the CO boards
RobbyPants
10-19-06, 10:33 AM aside from Robby these are some of the absolute worst Gishes I have ever seen.

If you are looking for a Gish you are really better off on the CO boards
Awww... thanks!

Although, to give credit where credit is due, the gish build I presented above is only about 2/3 mine. I tweaked it on the CO board, where I got the idea for the whole Power Attack>Improved Sunder>Combat Brute approach (works well with his adamantine war axe!).
castlemike
10-19-06, 12:31 PM You also might consider a +0 Tiefling Template Human with 32 points you would have a 18 Int (+2 Tief), 16 Dex (+2 Tief), 14 Con, 14 Wis, St 11 and 6 Char (-2 Tief). Great Int, Excellent Dex and Good Con and Wis (HP and will saves). Low charisma is playable as a "creepy and untrustworthy" character with something definitely odd about him because of his planar aura and or physical differences. You could always lower Wis by 3 pts and start with a 19 Int depends on how important will saves are in your game although many would make it 20 with a 8 Wis it all depends on your game and style of play.
darkestRose
10-19-06, 01:31 PM well my apologies on this, i should have stated that my DM doesnt really RP that much, our sessions are more Combat based..we do do storylines just.. kinda seap through them to the action.. so a Cha score of 3 - 8 is suitable.. so i could use those extra points to the 32pt.. keep that in mind. as for PrC's.. the only book that he doesnt allow is Unearthed Arcana.. other than that.. green light : ).. thank you all for your suggestions..after this info i hope you can come up with some other things
castlemike
10-19-06, 03:26 PM The character optimaztion boards have lots of builds.

Since everything is fair game Five feats I like are:

The Spellfire Wielder (FRCS) particularly starting at lower levels it gives your wizard some basic healing and a single powerful attack based on stored spellfire with a constition limit which is nice with True Strike.

Hidden Talent (PH) is a nice Psionic Feat particularly if you take something like Astral Construct which becomes more useful as you level up and gain additional PP for level and Int bonuses along with a fall back if your spell book is destroyed, stolen or you cast all your spells.

Collegiate Wizard (CA) doubles your free spell book spells from two to four per level with a skill modifier which is really useful in a non magic shop or low magic campaign.

Precocious Spellcaster (CA) Starting off at level 1 with a level 2 spell that becomes a bonus spell after leveling up.

Races of Stone introduced the Runesmith and the Permanent Rune Feat. We let Archmages and Loremasters choose it as a "Secret" Feat. A personal "Legendary Ancient" discovery which the PC learned the basic limitations to and something you just don't go around sharing wit just anybody. Basically Broken with the Most popular choice with 20 levels is forfeiting a daily level 8 spell use for Two Daily Uses of Limited Wish without the -300 Experience Point Drain. Great for emergencies particularly with MotAO for several lower level needed spells and one less record to keep regarding adventuring parties.

It's not meant to be a game breaker so to prevent things from getting out of hand wishing for things beyond the standard common PHB listed spells it only duplicates spells your PC has personally witnessed at least 1-4 times (Varies) to commit to memory or the PC was personally instructed and paid the caster for instruction which only requires witnessing the effect once as determined by roleplay and the DM or making temporary potions as per Darson's Potion Maker limitations has the caster hit by 1-4 Rod of Wonder effects.

No creating Two Piles of 1,500 GP or equivalent wealth (Gems, Jewelry... from Nothing without getting hit by 1 - 4 Rod of Wonder Effects (2 - 8 attempting to cheat with an Antimagic Shell (Sticking out an arm within an Antimagic shell and trying to slip it in quickly) (Fabricate (Master Work Items are possible with the right skills and skill checks for each item up to Int Mod and a total value of 300 - 3,000 GP Market Value with consequences to actions (Finding Buyers, Upsetting Guilds......) and Fool's Gold) are Fair Game and Cool but may give you and the party an Infamous Reputation Bonus or make a new irritating adversary).

No new unwitnessed in play "Unknown Spells" of level 4+ (Not knowing the effect the PC can't properly describe it, know it is possible or will it to come into effect and the PC must be able to provide the reference source for questionable spell duplication).

Adept Commune (Only to your Patron God so this is usually a small adventure in itself locating the right Adept and convincing him to disturb his God (You don't want to be disturbing other Gods Unfriendly Extended SM7 or PA to talk with you) or Heal (Any Willing Adept 16+) unless you find and witness casting and performing the spell. Using Limited Wish for Adept Style and Raising the Dead has consequences if you can find an Adept and there is a Dead Person laying around needing to be raised as per the DM and Heroes of Horror.

Since everything is fair game except UA if you want some power gaming for combat consider playing a Unbodied Psion Telepath Level 1 (the +4 Unbodied ECL is balanced out by the Four addition levels you receive to Level 1 so IMO you are superior to a standard Level 5 PC plus it provides interesting roleplaying when you are incorporeal with your special illusion powers and telekinetic powers). Unbodied get +4 to Int so it maximizes point buy characters.

Of course there is always the Ur Lord (CD) MT Combo but you wished to play a wizard.

Consider playing a Wizard Cerebrancer the psionic equivalent to the Master Theurge.

Harper Mage grants you Bardic Lore and quite a few feats plus prepares you for Archmage. (We house rule wizards and clerics are educated and have the Educated Feat).

Keeping it simple Wiz-5, MotAO - 1, 4 or 7 (Access to All Spell Levels), ACM-5, Loremaster - 2 and your PRC Choice of 1+ PRC levels based on MotAO or HM-4 Many people like Initiate of the Seven Veils and Arcanix (MoF) it was tamed down PGtF.

Hope that helps
AZNsupermarket
10-19-06, 05:01 PM That character is just *itching* for a ray of enfeeblement. haha!
good thing for me, my dm hates using caster NPC's ;)

EDIT: maybe I should buy some counterspelling item just to be safe. :)

EDIT EDIT: looking over the spell, the subject's strength score can't go bellow 1, what's the problem?
AZNsupermarket
10-19-06, 05:03 PM aside from Robby these are some of the absolute worst Gishes I have ever seen.

If you are looking for a Gish you are really better off on the CO boards
We were supposed to make gishes? I should read more carefully. I was statting a full fledged wizard.
darkestRose
10-19-06, 07:23 PM full fledged wizard sounds nice to me:D
RobbyPants
10-19-06, 10:32 PM We were supposed to make gishes? I should read more carefully. I was statting a full fledged wizard.
It was implied in the OP:
Need help, tips/ opinions on building a power wizard based character.. ex: (fighter/wizard/eldricth knight.. / fighter/wizard/spellsword) etc... need a good race to best suit spellcasting and ideas on feats for the spells..
The word "gish" didn't technically come up, but it was implied by the multiclassing lists...

That explains why I was seeing builds focusing on Dex and Int as opposed to Str and Int. Not that Dex is bad, but once you're able to wear fullplate w/o ASF, it doesn't need to be so high.

Explains the confusion!
darkestRose
10-19-06, 10:45 PM hey robby pants.. i like your build alot.. but saying starting off 4th lvl.. how many lvls do i put into x'amount of classes and when should i start putting lvls in other classes and such!
darkestRose
10-19-06, 10:48 PM bleh im tempted to do this using house rule

Str 16
Dex 12
Con 14
Int 18
Wis 9
Cha 3

: P for the fighter/wizard/spellsword/ eldritch knight...
angryman
10-19-06, 11:21 PM good thing for me, my dm hates using caster NPC's ;)

EDIT: maybe I should buy some counterspelling item just to be safe. :)

EDIT EDIT: looking over the spell, the subject's strength score can't go bellow 1, what's the problem?

Look at the weight limits for a person with 1 str, calculate yours and realise you're likely immobile.
darkestRose
10-19-06, 11:22 PM yeh by then you're fat and lazy : P

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
darkestRose 10-18-06, 07:17 PM	Need help, tips/ opinions on building a power wizard based character.. ex: (fighter/wizard/eldricth knight.. / fighter/wizard/spellsword) etc... need a good race to best suit spellcasting and ideas on feats for the spells.. Note :(DM allows us to take (min)1-5(max) from a single ability score to add to the 32 pts to make it 37, ex: ability score of 8 is 0 points, i can take that 8 and take 5 points away to make it 3(-4mod) to add those 5 pts to the 32points for 37..
Tony Vargas 10-18-06, 07:49 PM	Try the Character Optimization board. When you do, be sure to give a complete list of all the books available to you, and anything your DM bans or house-rules away. You'll also get bettter responses the more precise you are in what you want your character to be/be able to do.
Millennium 10-18-06, 09:31 PM	Cross-posting BAD. But again, I'll warn you not to take the DM up on his offer to lower your stats below 8. I don't think he's trying to scam you, but the buyback rates he's offering aren't good: you'll lose much more than you stand to gain.
Grey_Mage 10-18-06, 11:04 PM	Seriously... its bad enough having a stat under 10 if you can help it... apart from role playing reasons anyways. A person with CHA or DEX 4? :O For a first level Wizard? Hmm... brushes up on his point buy rules Race: Elf Class- Wizard, Sub Level Taken for Universalist Wizardry. Str: 10 Dex: 14 Con: 12 Int:18 Wis: 10 Cha: 10 or 2/4/6/16/2/2 So... Lets see... What else? ahh yes. Skills: Spellcraft 4, Concentration 4, Decipher Script 4, Knowledge Arcana 4, Knowledge Geography 4, Knowledge History 4. I like them knowledgeable... feel free to change the last to... or heck, all of it as its your character. Familiar: Im Partial to the Raven and the Weasel... personally. Feat: Collegiate Wizard, or Spellcasting Prodigy. Collegiate Wizard gives you twice as many spells per level in your spellbook and a bonus to Arcana checks. Spellcasting prodigy gives you +2 Int for the purposes of extra spells... meaning that youll actually have four first level spells at level one with this build. Really the question becomes do you want the long term pay off or the short term payoff? Standard adventurers kit... plus spellbook... maybe some powdered silver, ink, and pens to go with that... should do yah right fine.
Zariell 10-18-06, 11:52 PM	^ A nice summary Int and Dex are really your main stats, Int effects the power of your spells, languages, skills, all of which you use constantly as a wizard. I would advise against combining a melee class with a wizard specificly (It just dosn't work. To make it work, you gimp both your melee output and spell output both at an early level, mid level, and late level). That being said, there are tons of non-wizard spell casting melee classes that would probably suite you better. If you must, I would go a dex-based melee class (Weapon Finesse), with something like a Elven Chain Shirt to minimize spell failure. Just don't forget about your intellect.
Seerow 10-18-06, 11:56 PM	Str: 10 Dex: 14 Con: 12 Int:18 Wis: 10 Cha: 10 or 2/4/6/16/2/2 I'd dump Charisma fully and bump the con up 2 points. As a Wizard you really want those extra hit points. In fact, I'm tempted to make an argument for Dwarf or Gnome over Elf for the Wizard, but eh.
Krusk 10-19-06, 01:22 AM	Feat: Collegiate Wizard, or Spellcasting Prodigy. Collegiate Wizard gives you twice as many spells per level in your spellbook and a bonus to Arcana checks. Spellcasting prodigy gives you +2 Int for the purposes of extra spells... meaning that youll actually have four first level spells at level one with this build. Really the question becomes do you want the long term pay off or the short term payoff? Just wondering, what books are those feats in? cause they would be really useful for me. id also go for dumping the cha to 8 and raising the con or str if its possible for you. cause your trying to gish you need a decent con or str.
Squirrelloid 10-19-06, 01:54 AM	Seriously... its bad enough having a stat under 10 if you can help it... apart from role playing reasons anyways. A person with CHA or DEX 4? :O For a first level Wizard? Hmm... brushes up on his point buy rules Race: Elf Class- Wizard, Sub Level Taken for Universalist Wizardry. Str: 10 Dex: 14 Con: 12 Int:18 Wis: 10 Cha: 10 or 2/4/6/16/2/2 So... Lets see... What else? ahh yes. Skills: Spellcraft 4, Concentration 4, Decipher Script 4, Knowledge Arcana 4, Knowledge Geography 4, Knowledge History 4. I like them knowledgeable... feel free to change the last to... or heck, all of it as its your character. Familiar: Im Partial to the Raven and the Weasel... personally. Feat: Collegiate Wizard, or Spellcasting Prodigy. Collegiate Wizard gives you twice as many spells per level in your spellbook and a bonus to Arcana checks. Spellcasting prodigy gives you +2 Int for the purposes of extra spells... meaning that youll actually have four first level spells at level one with this build. Really the question becomes do you want the long term pay off or the short term payoff? Standard adventurers kit... plus spellbook... maybe some powdered silver, ink, and pens to go with that... should do yah right fine. Some of this advice is questionable depending on the sources available to you, and the level you start at. I dislike both spellcasting prodigy and collegiate wizard in any case, though collegiate's bonus is slightly better. Race: You want Gray Elf - don't be a Gish. +2 int -2 str ftw! (Its core, sub-race listed in the MM, confirm the DM is allowing them). Stat buy: Str 8-2 Dex 12+2 Con 16-2 Int 18+2 Wis 10 Cha 8 (32pts), might want 12 wis and 10 dex instead. If starting at a level polymorph is available, sack dex and maybe con depending on which polymorph rules are used. Advantages: Gray Elves get all the elf bonuses and a better stat trade off for wizards. Especially once you get to Polymorph and don't care about any physical stats except con (maybe). Elf substitution levels are awesome, specialize in necromancy. OR: You want Human or Dwarf - be a gish. (Elves make awful gishes because the con is more important than the dex). Pre-racial: Str 16 Dex 12 Con 14 Int 16 Wis 10 Cha 8 Human: get extra skills and a feat - this is a huge help for early bang, and the skills keep paying off. Try to pick up tumble somewhere during the multi-classing, its the best battle skill ever. Dwarf: Darkvision and trading con for a stat you won't ever use. What's not to like? Oh yeah, slow movement rate with no armor potential - this goes away when you get polymorph, but it does hurt until then. Build: Knowing what sources and what starting level really matters. Also, what level of "cheese" is allowed. I mean, in an any source RAW campaign you want Incantatrix/Iot7FV/Archmage or Incantatrix/Fatespinner/Archmage, but Incantatrix has about a 50% chance of being banned, and most of the others require CA. Archmage is the only core one, and a duh option if you can take it. I can't provide any advice on feats until i know what PrCs are fair game. pre-reqs are important, and that's going to be your first priority for feats, since spells are sufficient class features for most purposes.
Rhomphaia 10-19-06, 02:11 AM	Here is my take on it using only the PHB. First, either gnome or halfling as a race (I would use gnome) with one of the following ability scores arrays (before racial adjustments). 10, 14, 10, 18, 12, 10 -or- 8, 14, 12, 18, 14, 8. Then grab yourself the following skills (ranks only); Concentration 4, Decipher Script 3, Knowledge (arcane) 4, Knowledge (architecture) 1, Knowledge (dungeoneering) 1, Knowledge (geography) 1, Knowledge (history) 1, Knowledge (local) 1, Knowledge (nature), Knowledge (nobility) 1, Knowledge (religion) 1, Knowledge (the planes) 1, Spellcraft 4. As a feat, I would strongly recommend Spell Focus (illusion). For your first level spells, I would choose the following; Shield, Reduce Person, Color Spray, Magic Missile, Feather Fall, Sleep and Summon Monster I. Hope this gives ya some ideas.
Grey_Mage 10-19-06, 03:29 AM	Just wondering, what books are those feats in? cause they would be really useful for me. id also go for dumping the cha to 8 and raising the con or str if its possible for you. cause your trying to gish you need a decent con or str. Well.. first off... @ OP: Sorry about that... somehow I completely missed the Gish part. Brain fart....:confused: In that case youll probly want to drop Cha to an 8, and bump up str to a 12. Or even co Str 14, Dex 12... unless youd like to be a ranged gish? shrugs. Personally I like pure wizards more most of the time. As for you Krusk, Collegiate Wizard is Complete Arcane... 180... 181? and Spellcasting Prodigy is from players guide to Faerun... somehwere around pg 43 off the top of my head. Both are first level only, and collegiate wizard is also Int 13, Wizard 1. As a human wizard Ill occaisionally take both... but RP wise I generally stay away from SCP, personal preference there. Of course... I dont like point buy at all... so I tend to try to min/max what I can.
AZNsupermarket 10-19-06, 07:27 AM	Stats I'm using for my character in an upcoming game: Middle-Aged Grey Elf Wizard (32 point buy) Str 5, -3 (0 points, -2 race penalty, -1 age penalty) Dex 16, +3 (8 points, +2 race bonus, -1 age penalty) Con 12, +1 (8 points, -2 race penalty, -1 age penalty) Int 21, +5 (16 points, +2 race bonus, +1 age bonus) Wis 9, -1 (0 points, +1 age bonus) Cha 9, -1 (0 points, +1 age bonus) We are starting a level 6, so I will be able to raise that 21 to a 22 for the one ability increase.
angryman 10-19-06, 08:58 AM	Stats I'm using for my character in an upcoming game: Middle-Aged Grey Elf Wizard (32 point buy) Str 5, -3 (0 points, -2 race penalty, -1 age penalty) Dex 16, +3 (8 points, +2 race bonus, -1 age penalty) Con 12, +1 (8 points, -2 race penalty, -1 age penalty) Int 21, +5 (16 points, +2 race bonus, +1 age bonus) Wis 9, -1 (0 points, +1 age bonus) Cha 9, -1 (0 points, +1 age bonus) We are starting a level 6, so I will be able to raise that 21 to a 22 for the one ability increase. That character is just itching for a ray of enfeeblement. haha!
RobbyPants 10-19-06, 09:10 AM	For the stats, I'd recomend: Str 16 Dex 12 Con 14 Int 16 Wis 10 Cha 8 These would work for my build below: I'm making a simlar gish build for a different game. I'm not sure how optimized it is, but its a dwarf, and his 20 level build is Ftr 1 / Wiz 6 / SpellSword 3 / Eldritch Knight 10. This build will give you a BAB of 17 and 9th level spells (17th level wizard) at 20th level. I think the feats I took by 9th level were: Scribe Scroll (Wiz 1) Sudden Widen (Lvl 1) Practiced Spellcaster(Ftr 1) Power Attack (Lvl 3) Arcane Strike (Lvl 6) Sudden Maximize (Wiz 5) Improved Sunder (SpSw 2) Combat Brute (Lvl 9) The reason for the spellsword 3 is that I get ignore ASF 15%. With that, I can cast in Mithril Twilight fullplate, which brings the ASF of the fullplate from 35% down to 15%. Anyway, that's the idea I had. Use what you want. Good luck! :D
starfire311 10-19-06, 09:25 AM	aside from Robby these are some of the absolute worst Gishes I have ever seen. If you are looking for a Gish you are really better off on the CO boards
RobbyPants 10-19-06, 10:33 AM	aside from Robby these are some of the absolute worst Gishes I have ever seen. If you are looking for a Gish you are really better off on the CO boards Awww... thanks! Although, to give credit where credit is due, the gish build I presented above is only about 2/3 mine. I tweaked it on the CO board, where I got the idea for the whole Power Attack>Improved Sunder>Combat Brute approach (works well with his adamantine war axe!).
castlemike 10-19-06, 12:31 PM	You also might consider a +0 Tiefling Template Human with 32 points you would have a 18 Int (+2 Tief), 16 Dex (+2 Tief), 14 Con, 14 Wis, St 11 and 6 Char (-2 Tief). Great Int, Excellent Dex and Good Con and Wis (HP and will saves). Low charisma is playable as a "creepy and untrustworthy" character with something definitely odd about him because of his planar aura and or physical differences. You could always lower Wis by 3 pts and start with a 19 Int depends on how important will saves are in your game although many would make it 20 with a 8 Wis it all depends on your game and style of play.
darkestRose 10-19-06, 01:31 PM	well my apologies on this, i should have stated that my DM doesnt really RP that much, our sessions are more Combat based..we do do storylines just.. kinda seap through them to the action.. so a Cha score of 3 - 8 is suitable.. so i could use those extra points to the 32pt.. keep that in mind. as for PrC's.. the only book that he doesnt allow is Unearthed Arcana.. other than that.. green light : ).. thank you all for your suggestions..after this info i hope you can come up with some other things
castlemike 10-19-06, 03:26 PM	The character optimaztion boards have lots of builds. Since everything is fair game Five feats I like are: The Spellfire Wielder (FRCS) particularly starting at lower levels it gives your wizard some basic healing and a single powerful attack based on stored spellfire with a constition limit which is nice with True Strike. Hidden Talent (PH) is a nice Psionic Feat particularly if you take something like Astral Construct which becomes more useful as you level up and gain additional PP for level and Int bonuses along with a fall back if your spell book is destroyed, stolen or you cast all your spells. Collegiate Wizard (CA) doubles your free spell book spells from two to four per level with a skill modifier which is really useful in a non magic shop or low magic campaign. Precocious Spellcaster (CA) Starting off at level 1 with a level 2 spell that becomes a bonus spell after leveling up. Races of Stone introduced the Runesmith and the Permanent Rune Feat. We let Archmages and Loremasters choose it as a "Secret" Feat. A personal "Legendary Ancient" discovery which the PC learned the basic limitations to and something you just don't go around sharing wit just anybody. Basically Broken with the Most popular choice with 20 levels is forfeiting a daily level 8 spell use for Two Daily Uses of Limited Wish without the -300 Experience Point Drain. Great for emergencies particularly with MotAO for several lower level needed spells and one less record to keep regarding adventuring parties. It's not meant to be a game breaker so to prevent things from getting out of hand wishing for things beyond the standard common PHB listed spells it only duplicates spells your PC has personally witnessed at least 1-4 times (Varies) to commit to memory or the PC was personally instructed and paid the caster for instruction which only requires witnessing the effect once as determined by roleplay and the DM or making temporary potions as per Darson's Potion Maker limitations has the caster hit by 1-4 Rod of Wonder effects. No creating Two Piles of 1,500 GP or equivalent wealth (Gems, Jewelry... from Nothing without getting hit by 1 - 4 Rod of Wonder Effects (2 - 8 attempting to cheat with an Antimagic Shell (Sticking out an arm within an Antimagic shell and trying to slip it in quickly) (Fabricate (Master Work Items are possible with the right skills and skill checks for each item up to Int Mod and a total value of 300 - 3,000 GP Market Value with consequences to actions (Finding Buyers, Upsetting Guilds......) and Fool's Gold) are Fair Game and Cool but may give you and the party an Infamous Reputation Bonus or make a new irritating adversary). No new unwitnessed in play "Unknown Spells" of level 4+ (Not knowing the effect the PC can't properly describe it, know it is possible or will it to come into effect and the PC must be able to provide the reference source for questionable spell duplication). Adept Commune (Only to your Patron God so this is usually a small adventure in itself locating the right Adept and convincing him to disturb his God (You don't want to be disturbing other Gods Unfriendly Extended SM7 or PA to talk with you) or Heal (Any Willing Adept 16+) unless you find and witness casting and performing the spell. Using Limited Wish for Adept Style and Raising the Dead has consequences if you can find an Adept and there is a Dead Person laying around needing to be raised as per the DM and Heroes of Horror. Since everything is fair game except UA if you want some power gaming for combat consider playing a Unbodied Psion Telepath Level 1 (the +4 Unbodied ECL is balanced out by the Four addition levels you receive to Level 1 so IMO you are superior to a standard Level 5 PC plus it provides interesting roleplaying when you are incorporeal with your special illusion powers and telekinetic powers). Unbodied get +4 to Int so it maximizes point buy characters. Of course there is always the Ur Lord (CD) MT Combo but you wished to play a wizard. Consider playing a Wizard Cerebrancer the psionic equivalent to the Master Theurge. Harper Mage grants you Bardic Lore and quite a few feats plus prepares you for Archmage. (We house rule wizards and clerics are educated and have the Educated Feat). Keeping it simple Wiz-5, MotAO - 1, 4 or 7 (Access to All Spell Levels), ACM-5, Loremaster - 2 and your PRC Choice of 1+ PRC levels based on MotAO or HM-4 Many people like Initiate of the Seven Veils and Arcanix (MoF) it was tamed down PGtF. Hope that helps
AZNsupermarket 10-19-06, 05:01 PM	That character is just itching for a ray of enfeeblement. haha! good thing for me, my dm hates using caster NPC's ;) EDIT: maybe I should buy some counterspelling item just to be safe. :) EDIT EDIT: looking over the spell, the subject's strength score can't go bellow 1, what's the problem?
AZNsupermarket 10-19-06, 05:03 PM	aside from Robby these are some of the absolute worst Gishes I have ever seen. If you are looking for a Gish you are really better off on the CO boards We were supposed to make gishes? I should read more carefully. I was statting a full fledged wizard.
darkestRose 10-19-06, 07:23 PM	full fledged wizard sounds nice to me:D
RobbyPants 10-19-06, 10:32 PM	We were supposed to make gishes? I should read more carefully. I was statting a full fledged wizard. It was implied in the OP: Need help, tips/ opinions on building a power wizard based character.. ex: (fighter/wizard/eldricth knight.. / fighter/wizard/spellsword) etc... need a good race to best suit spellcasting and ideas on feats for the spells.. The word "gish" didn't technically come up, but it was implied by the multiclassing lists... That explains why I was seeing builds focusing on Dex and Int as opposed to Str and Int. Not that Dex is bad, but once you're able to wear fullplate w/o ASF, it doesn't need to be so high. Explains the confusion!
darkestRose 10-19-06, 10:45 PM	hey robby pants.. i like your build alot.. but saying starting off 4th lvl.. how many lvls do i put into x'amount of classes and when should i start putting lvls in other classes and such!
darkestRose 10-19-06, 10:48 PM	bleh im tempted to do this using house rule Str 16 Dex 12 Con 14 Int 18 Wis 9 Cha 3 : P for the fighter/wizard/spellsword/ eldritch knight...
angryman 10-19-06, 11:21 PM	good thing for me, my dm hates using caster NPC's ;) EDIT: maybe I should buy some counterspelling item just to be safe. :) EDIT EDIT: looking over the spell, the subject's strength score can't go bellow 1, what's the problem? Look at the weight limits for a person with 1 str, calculate yours and realise you're likely immobile.
darkestRose 10-19-06, 11:22 PM	yeh by then you're fat and lazy : P