3rd level and a 28 point-buy... what would you do? [Archive] - Wizards Community

3rd level and a 28 point-buy... what would you do? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Kevtar
01-23-06, 02:42 PM Hi all,

I'm joining an existing group with the following PCs currently in play:

1. Wizard
2. Paladin/Fighter
3. Bar/Rog (I will be filling this player's spot)
4. (1 player still undecided)
5. Cleric
6. Ranger (bow spec)

The PC creation rules are: All Core-only, 3rd level, 2,700gp in equipment, and a 28 point-buy. This all sounds good, but I have NO idea what I want to play. I was thinking of simply taking the Rogue's places and building a Rogue PC, but I just haven't decided if that's what I want.

SO - I thought I would ask all you creative minds out there for some input. Given the information above, what character would you create? Please post ability score points, feats, skills (if necessary), and important equipment. Thanks in advance.
Puca
01-23-06, 03:23 PM Instead of ranting about how you should play whay you want to play, Ill tell you what I see with this party:

You need someone who can deal with traps. You might need a party face, unless the paladin or cleric is in that role. You have plenty of divine casting, and a wizard is good enough to take care of the bulk or your arcane needs.

I also dont see anyone who automatically fits the role of a light fighter. What Player 4 decides to do matters, but based on what you have here, I think rogue:
He can be a face and deal with traps and go into light combat or a ranged role as needed. Also, if you want to do all of that, youll need a lot of skill points, and hes got those.
danielinthewolvesden
01-23-06, 03:33 PM This party needs (in this order)
a trap-finding rogue (as Puca said)
a "face" (as Puca said)
a secondary healer
a secondary front-line fighter.

I'd do a rogue. They are a lot of fun. With 28pts, I'd use CHA as a dump, unfortunately. Cl1/Ro2 has something to be said for it if you're human. Those two domains are the equivilant of feats in many cases, and the little bit of extra healing is always nice.
colyn kell
01-23-06, 04:18 PM So do the obvious, and play a rogue/bard.
Secondary spell casting, lots of skills, light combat, trap finding...the list goes beyond that, but that's all you need.

Oh yeah, bards are also the best "Faces" in the game.
danielinthewolvesden
01-23-06, 05:21 PM [QUOTE=colyn kell]So do the obvious, and play a rogue/bard.
Secondary spell casting, lots of skills, light combat, trap finding...the list goes beyond that, but that's all you need.

QUOTE]
Sounds good, until you are "faced' with the 28 point buy- and having to put points in (with Bard) CHA also.

Rogue buy = Str 14, Dex14, Con14, Int14, Wis 12 CHA 8.
Bard buy= Str 12, Dex14, Con12, int 12, wiz 8 , CHA16.
Cruddier Will saves & Fort saves, less HP, -2 Spot & Listen, -1 to hit AND damage, less carrying capacity,and quite a few less Skill points. (on the avergage two less per level)

Now, if I had a 38 pt buy (14,14,14,14,12,16), then sure.
colyn kell
01-23-06, 08:17 PM Yeah, a 28pt buy does suck allot. You dont have put a 16 into cha though. You could easily just put a 15 into it, and that nets you two more points to spend. You could put those into Wis, and wait for your level 4 point to put into cha. Will saves are no longer crappier, and you have a decent spell casting modifier. Personally I think that a 14 is just fine in Cha and that gets you even more points to spend.

Also, bard has a few personal buffs to help out.
The Livewire
01-23-06, 08:50 PM Assuming any class is open and you want something beyond a Rogue...

Artificer covers the find/remove traps and secondary caster catagory.

If you want feats and skills galore, take the rogue varient from Unearthed arcane. If you go Street fighter later you can pick up BAB and sneak attack there.

Point buy (assuming Human) S 13 D 14 C 12 I 12 W 11 Ch 14 Maybe switch the Cha and Con if you want to be a bit more durable Weapon finesse is a must for this build.

Want a bit more durability, mix levels with swashbuckler (I'd recommend rogue 1 swashbuckler 1 rogue 2)

Spell thief is another option, or ninja.

If you go elf, the improved weapon familiarity/weapon finesse/twf/thinblade light blade combo opens up possibilities.

Elf point buy S: 12 D 13(15) C:14 (12) I:14 W:11 Ch:12
Feats:
Level 1: Iron Will, Two weapon fighting(b)
2nd: Improved Weapon Familiarity (b)
3rd: Weapon Finesse

Equipment, Thin blade, light blade, mitheral shirt, MW Dasatana (if he'll go for it) MW thieves tools, tanglefoot bag. Masterwork the weapons too if you can afford it. Carry a club for skeleton bashing.

Edit, forgot. don't forget the psychic Rogue.
Jerrythehun
01-23-06, 10:12 PM Yeah, a 28pt buy does suck allot. You dont have put a 16 into cha though. You could easily just put a 15 into it, and that nets you two more points to spend. You could put those into Wis, and wait for your level 4 point to put into cha. Will saves are no longer crappier, and you have a decent spell casting modifier. Personally I think that a 14 is just fine in Cha and that gets you even more points to spend.

Also, bard has a few personal buffs to help out.

Well, the standard RPGA point buy is 28. I am not contesting your feelings, I just happen to think its not outrageous...
danielinthewolvesden
01-23-06, 11:31 PM Yeah, a 28pt buy does suck allot.

Personally I think that a 14 is just fine in Cha and that gets you even more points to spend.

A 28 pt buy doesn't suck- but it isn't bery good for multiclassing where every ability has to be fairly good.

If you are a caster, you need as high as possible in your casting ability.
Hariman
01-24-06, 02:53 AM I recommend a straight rogue.

Let the other undecided player choose a secondary caster.

Rogues can eventually heal via Use Magic Device. If you want a party face I'd recommend reducing strength and increasing charisma and making a weapon finesse build.
Elemental_Elf
01-24-06, 03:55 AM There's nothing wrong with a guy who focus' completely on defense. If that's cool with you then go Fighter/Dwarven Defender. It's all core and fun!

Bard is a good choice if you want to do a little of everything, as is a Ranger. And the great thing about a bard is that if your party winds up needing a tank, then you can take the Dragon Disciple PrC.

Otehr then those, a Barbarian, Rogue or Monk would do pretty good.
Kevtar
01-24-06, 06:59 PM Thanks for all the suggestions. Here is what I came up with, for better or for worse:

Name: Jak Vance;)

Human Rog3: CR 3; ECL 3; Size M; HD 3d6+3; hp 17; Init +2; Spd 30 ft;
AC 17, touch 12, FF 15;
BAB +2; Grapple +2; Atk: +4 melee (1d3, Unarmed), +5 melee (1d6/crit 18-20, Rapier MW), +5 (1d4/crit 19-20, Dagger MW), +4 ranged (1d8/crit x3, Longbow, composite);
AL N;
SV Fort +2, Ref +5, Will +1;
Abilities: Str 10, Dex 14, Con 12, Int 16, Wis 10, Cha 12.
Languages spoken: Common, Draconic, Lizardfolk, Undercommon

Skills and Feats: Balance +5, Bluff +7, Disable Device +11, Forgery +7, Gather Information +4, Hide +8, Sleight of Hand +10, Intimidate +9, Knowledge (Local) +6, Move Silently +8, Open Lock +10, Search +9, Tumble +8, Use Magic Device +5, Perform (Dance) +4; Dodge, Quick Draw, Weapon Finesse.

Special Abilities: Evasion, Sneak Attack, Trap Sense, Trapfinding.

Possessions: 26 pp, 30 gp, 20 sp, , Mithral shirt, Backpack, 3 Potion of cure light wounds, 2 Tanglefoot bag, Masterwork thieves' tools, Ink (1 oz. vial), 25 Paper (sheet), 20 Parchment (sheet), Sealing wax, Signet ring, Rapier mw, Dagger mw, Darkwood buckler, Composite longbow, Arrows (20).

I'm going to try using forgery, bluff (for feinting), and other stuff that I haven't yet tried in the game. I'm also thinking about eventually getting the Shadow Dancer PrC, but that is still undecided. This is my first rogue character I have ever played in my 18+ years of playing D&D.... weird.

The concept is that he's a lot like Han Solo. Not Han Solo after he's been whipped by Leia, and definitely NOT Han Solo in the '97 travesty of "Greedo shoots first," but the "shoot first, ask questions later" Han Solo from the original Star Wars.
danielinthewolvesden
01-24-06, 11:40 PM You could work better in combat with my suggested buy:Rogue buy = Str 14, Dex14, Con14, Int14, Wis 12 CHA 8.

TWF works better than Quick draw.
Kevtar
01-25-06, 11:43 AM That's a good suggestion, but I just heard that the "undecided" player is bringing in a Barbarian, so we now have 3 "tanks" (well, the ranger isn't really a tank, but he is a good range-combatant).

I'm figuring my role in the party will be in recon, interaction, disabling, etc... and although I'm not adverse to entering battle, I will be relying on my stealth and sneak attack, which means I'll have to be selective on how I attack.

Two-weapon fighting was REALLY attractive, but I wanted the option of being able to draw a hidden weapon if negotiations with NPCs don't go very well. Also, Weapon Finesse gives me a decent "to hit," especially against a FF or sneak-attack target, so I didn't think I needed to increase my strength.

I wanted a "high" INT for skill points, so I reduced STR to 10. A then used Weapon Finesse to make up for the low BAB. Although I lose (2) points of damage this way, I can still hit my sneak attacks as if I had a STR 14, and I thought 1d4+2d6 was still decent damage. Basically, a net loss 2 points of STR damage for the extra skill points was my rationale.

The DM has made changes to the Diplomacy skill due to previous players taking advantage of the skill's RAW, so most of our interaction with NPCs will be role-play. Still though, your advice is good and appreciated!
Dracspero
01-25-06, 11:50 AM I'd say with a 28 point buy that 16 int hurts. I'd recommend dropping int to 14, increase con to 14, and Dex to 15 (so it'll be 16 next level).

For feats dodge is only worth taking if you need it as a prerequisite for something else. Improved Initiative can never be underestimated for a rogue as the ability to act first can often mean also acting last. Agree with Daniel about TWF, as it is just devestating when flanking, but you seem set on Quickdraw, so I'll leave it alone.
Puca
01-25-06, 12:03 PM Id wait to get Quickdraw until later.

It can let you attack in a surprise round, but how often will you be in a situation where you get a suprise round when your weapon wasnt already out? Quickdraw will be better later when youve got more iterative attacks.

Edit: If you are worried about negotiations going south, I beleive there are rules on palming a dagger in CW. I know they cover palming a dagger in combat, which does require Quickdraw and lets you deprive your opponent of his dex (which is a use for QD now.)

TWF is great for a rogue in combat and you can get full use of it now. Combat Expertise is also nice as it is a prereq for Improved Feint.
Kevtar
01-25-06, 01:41 PM Hmmm... now you've got me thinking... crap.

So, in regard to Puca's advice on palming a dagger, that would be cool, but the DM is nearly 100% CORE only. The TWF option is great. I'll just have to make sure I tumble into flanking position.

Here's a dumb question thourhg: If you are a rogue with TWF and make a sneak attack, does only the first attack get the extra sneak attack damage? I'm assuming it does.

I took dodge because it was a pre-req for Shadow dancer, and my AC ain't that great. However, I'm not sure I want to go Shadowdancer. What feat would be a good replacement for "dodge." I've decided to drop quick draw and add TWF. Does QD apply to both weapons if you have TWF?

I have no idea how to run a rogue in combat. :D
ArochanoX
01-25-06, 02:33 PM Use rogue bard or rogue cleric, they're magnificient combos to play. About the power I'm not sure.

I would personally max out in order: Cha, Int, Wis (if cleric, otherwise dumb it), Con, Dex, Str.

Use following skills: use magic device, knowledges, bluff, intimidate, diplomacy, sense motive + any other you like.

You'd end up a character that shoots sneak attack arrow first and then heal the party with wand of cure light wounds. And buff the party with cleric spells or bardic songs. Out of combat, you're the "face" of the party.
Puca
01-25-06, 02:38 PM Here's a dumb question thourhg: If you are a rogue with TWF and make a sneak attack, does only the first attack get the extra sneak attack damage? I'm assuming it does.It depends on the conditions that made the sneak attack possible.

Some things like Invisibility or Feinting only cause the opponent to be denied his dex bonus for one attack. In which case, the second strike (whether iterative or from TWF) wouldnt get SA.

But if the condition that caused the denial of dex lasts beyond the first strike (such as from having to balance or because the attacker is still invisible [Improved Invisibility]) then you get full SA damage on each and every attack in that round, including those from TWF.

Oh yeah, and while flanking too, both hits will get SA.

I took dodge because it was a pre-req for Shadow dancer, and my AC ain't that great. However, I'm not sure I want to go Shadowdancer. What feat would be a good replacement for "dodge." Dodge isnt the greatest feat, but +1 is ok and it is the prereq for a lot of things like Mobility which can lead to Spring Attack and a lot of other PrCs too, so it wont hurt you to stay with it.

I've decided to drop quick draw and add TWF. Does QD apply to both weapons if you have TWF?Yes.

Additionally, TWF (by itself, without Quickdraw) will let you draw two weapons as part of a move action.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kevtar 01-23-06, 02:42 PM	Hi all, I'm joining an existing group with the following PCs currently in play: 1. Wizard 2. Paladin/Fighter 3. Bar/Rog (I will be filling this player's spot) 4. (1 player still undecided) 5. Cleric 6. Ranger (bow spec) The PC creation rules are: All Core-only, 3rd level, 2,700gp in equipment, and a 28 point-buy. This all sounds good, but I have NO idea what I want to play. I was thinking of simply taking the Rogue's places and building a Rogue PC, but I just haven't decided if that's what I want. SO - I thought I would ask all you creative minds out there for some input. Given the information above, what character would you create? Please post ability score points, feats, skills (if necessary), and important equipment. Thanks in advance.
Puca 01-23-06, 03:23 PM	Instead of ranting about how you should play whay you want to play, Ill tell you what I see with this party: You need someone who can deal with traps. You might need a party face, unless the paladin or cleric is in that role. You have plenty of divine casting, and a wizard is good enough to take care of the bulk or your arcane needs. I also dont see anyone who automatically fits the role of a light fighter. What Player 4 decides to do matters, but based on what you have here, I think rogue: He can be a face and deal with traps and go into light combat or a ranged role as needed. Also, if you want to do all of that, youll need a lot of skill points, and hes got those.
danielinthewolvesden 01-23-06, 03:33 PM	This party needs (in this order) a trap-finding rogue (as Puca said) a "face" (as Puca said) a secondary healer a secondary front-line fighter. I'd do a rogue. They are a lot of fun. With 28pts, I'd use CHA as a dump, unfortunately. Cl1/Ro2 has something to be said for it if you're human. Those two domains are the equivilant of feats in many cases, and the little bit of extra healing is always nice.
colyn kell 01-23-06, 04:18 PM	So do the obvious, and play a rogue/bard. Secondary spell casting, lots of skills, light combat, trap finding...the list goes beyond that, but that's all you need. Oh yeah, bards are also the best "Faces" in the game.
danielinthewolvesden 01-23-06, 05:21 PM	[QUOTE=colyn kell]So do the obvious, and play a rogue/bard. Secondary spell casting, lots of skills, light combat, trap finding...the list goes beyond that, but that's all you need. QUOTE] Sounds good, until you are "faced' with the 28 point buy- and having to put points in (with Bard) CHA also. Rogue buy = Str 14, Dex14, Con14, Int14, Wis 12 CHA 8. Bard buy= Str 12, Dex14, Con12, int 12, wiz 8 , CHA16. Cruddier Will saves & Fort saves, less HP, -2 Spot & Listen, -1 to hit AND damage, less carrying capacity,and quite a few less Skill points. (on the avergage two less per level) Now, if I had a 38 pt buy (14,14,14,14,12,16), then sure.
colyn kell 01-23-06, 08:17 PM	Yeah, a 28pt buy does suck allot. You dont have put a 16 into cha though. You could easily just put a 15 into it, and that nets you two more points to spend. You could put those into Wis, and wait for your level 4 point to put into cha. Will saves are no longer crappier, and you have a decent spell casting modifier. Personally I think that a 14 is just fine in Cha and that gets you even more points to spend. Also, bard has a few personal buffs to help out.
The Livewire 01-23-06, 08:50 PM	Assuming any class is open and you want something beyond a Rogue... Artificer covers the find/remove traps and secondary caster catagory. If you want feats and skills galore, take the rogue varient from Unearthed arcane. If you go Street fighter later you can pick up BAB and sneak attack there. Point buy (assuming Human) S 13 D 14 C 12 I 12 W 11 Ch 14 Maybe switch the Cha and Con if you want to be a bit more durable Weapon finesse is a must for this build. Want a bit more durability, mix levels with swashbuckler (I'd recommend rogue 1 swashbuckler 1 rogue 2) Spell thief is another option, or ninja. If you go elf, the improved weapon familiarity/weapon finesse/twf/thinblade light blade combo opens up possibilities. Elf point buy S: 12 D 13(15) C:14 (12) I:14 W:11 Ch:12 Feats: Level 1: Iron Will, Two weapon fighting(b) 2nd: Improved Weapon Familiarity (b) 3rd: Weapon Finesse Equipment, Thin blade, light blade, mitheral shirt, MW Dasatana (if he'll go for it) MW thieves tools, tanglefoot bag. Masterwork the weapons too if you can afford it. Carry a club for skeleton bashing. Edit, forgot. don't forget the psychic Rogue.
Jerrythehun 01-23-06, 10:12 PM	Yeah, a 28pt buy does suck allot. You dont have put a 16 into cha though. You could easily just put a 15 into it, and that nets you two more points to spend. You could put those into Wis, and wait for your level 4 point to put into cha. Will saves are no longer crappier, and you have a decent spell casting modifier. Personally I think that a 14 is just fine in Cha and that gets you even more points to spend. Also, bard has a few personal buffs to help out. Well, the standard RPGA point buy is 28. I am not contesting your feelings, I just happen to think its not outrageous...
danielinthewolvesden 01-23-06, 11:31 PM	Yeah, a 28pt buy does suck allot. Personally I think that a 14 is just fine in Cha and that gets you even more points to spend. A 28 pt buy doesn't suck- but it isn't bery good for multiclassing where every ability has to be fairly good. If you are a caster, you need as high as possible in your casting ability.
Hariman 01-24-06, 02:53 AM	I recommend a straight rogue. Let the other undecided player choose a secondary caster. Rogues can eventually heal via Use Magic Device. If you want a party face I'd recommend reducing strength and increasing charisma and making a weapon finesse build.
Elemental_Elf 01-24-06, 03:55 AM	There's nothing wrong with a guy who focus' completely on defense. If that's cool with you then go Fighter/Dwarven Defender. It's all core and fun! Bard is a good choice if you want to do a little of everything, as is a Ranger. And the great thing about a bard is that if your party winds up needing a tank, then you can take the Dragon Disciple PrC. Otehr then those, a Barbarian, Rogue or Monk would do pretty good.
Kevtar 01-24-06, 06:59 PM	Thanks for all the suggestions. Here is what I came up with, for better or for worse: Name: Jak Vance;) Human Rog3: CR 3; ECL 3; Size M; HD 3d6+3; hp 17; Init +2; Spd 30 ft; AC 17, touch 12, FF 15; BAB +2; Grapple +2; Atk: +4 melee (1d3, Unarmed), +5 melee (1d6/crit 18-20, Rapier MW), +5 (1d4/crit 19-20, Dagger MW), +4 ranged (1d8/crit x3, Longbow, composite); AL N; SV Fort +2, Ref +5, Will +1; Abilities: Str 10, Dex 14, Con 12, Int 16, Wis 10, Cha 12. Languages spoken: Common, Draconic, Lizardfolk, Undercommon Skills and Feats: Balance +5, Bluff +7, Disable Device +11, Forgery +7, Gather Information +4, Hide +8, Sleight of Hand +10, Intimidate +9, Knowledge (Local) +6, Move Silently +8, Open Lock +10, Search +9, Tumble +8, Use Magic Device +5, Perform (Dance) +4; Dodge, Quick Draw, Weapon Finesse. Special Abilities: Evasion, Sneak Attack, Trap Sense, Trapfinding. Possessions: 26 pp, 30 gp, 20 sp, , Mithral shirt, Backpack, 3 Potion of cure light wounds, 2 Tanglefoot bag, Masterwork thieves' tools, Ink (1 oz. vial), 25 Paper (sheet), 20 Parchment (sheet), Sealing wax, Signet ring, Rapier mw, Dagger mw, Darkwood buckler, Composite longbow, Arrows (20). I'm going to try using forgery, bluff (for feinting), and other stuff that I haven't yet tried in the game. I'm also thinking about eventually getting the Shadow Dancer PrC, but that is still undecided. This is my first rogue character I have ever played in my 18+ years of playing D&D.... weird. The concept is that he's a lot like Han Solo. Not Han Solo after he's been whipped by Leia, and definitely NOT Han Solo in the '97 travesty of "Greedo shoots first," but the "shoot first, ask questions later" Han Solo from the original Star Wars.
danielinthewolvesden 01-24-06, 11:40 PM	You could work better in combat with my suggested buy:Rogue buy = Str 14, Dex14, Con14, Int14, Wis 12 CHA 8. TWF works better than Quick draw.
Kevtar 01-25-06, 11:43 AM	That's a good suggestion, but I just heard that the "undecided" player is bringing in a Barbarian, so we now have 3 "tanks" (well, the ranger isn't really a tank, but he is a good range-combatant). I'm figuring my role in the party will be in recon, interaction, disabling, etc... and although I'm not adverse to entering battle, I will be relying on my stealth and sneak attack, which means I'll have to be selective on how I attack. Two-weapon fighting was REALLY attractive, but I wanted the option of being able to draw a hidden weapon if negotiations with NPCs don't go very well. Also, Weapon Finesse gives me a decent "to hit," especially against a FF or sneak-attack target, so I didn't think I needed to increase my strength. I wanted a "high" INT for skill points, so I reduced STR to 10. A then used Weapon Finesse to make up for the low BAB. Although I lose (2) points of damage this way, I can still hit my sneak attacks as if I had a STR 14, and I thought 1d4+2d6 was still decent damage. Basically, a net loss 2 points of STR damage for the extra skill points was my rationale. The DM has made changes to the Diplomacy skill due to previous players taking advantage of the skill's RAW, so most of our interaction with NPCs will be role-play. Still though, your advice is good and appreciated!
Dracspero 01-25-06, 11:50 AM	I'd say with a 28 point buy that 16 int hurts. I'd recommend dropping int to 14, increase con to 14, and Dex to 15 (so it'll be 16 next level). For feats dodge is only worth taking if you need it as a prerequisite for something else. Improved Initiative can never be underestimated for a rogue as the ability to act first can often mean also acting last. Agree with Daniel about TWF, as it is just devestating when flanking, but you seem set on Quickdraw, so I'll leave it alone.
Puca 01-25-06, 12:03 PM	Id wait to get Quickdraw until later. It can let you attack in a surprise round, but how often will you be in a situation where you get a suprise round when your weapon wasnt already out? Quickdraw will be better later when youve got more iterative attacks. Edit: If you are worried about negotiations going south, I beleive there are rules on palming a dagger in CW. I know they cover palming a dagger in combat, which does require Quickdraw and lets you deprive your opponent of his dex (which is a use for QD now.) TWF is great for a rogue in combat and you can get full use of it now. Combat Expertise is also nice as it is a prereq for Improved Feint.
Kevtar 01-25-06, 01:41 PM	Hmmm... now you've got me thinking... crap. So, in regard to Puca's advice on palming a dagger, that would be cool, but the DM is nearly 100% CORE only. The TWF option is great. I'll just have to make sure I tumble into flanking position. Here's a dumb question thourhg: If you are a rogue with TWF and make a sneak attack, does only the first attack get the extra sneak attack damage? I'm assuming it does. I took dodge because it was a pre-req for Shadow dancer, and my AC ain't that great. However, I'm not sure I want to go Shadowdancer. What feat would be a good replacement for "dodge." I've decided to drop quick draw and add TWF. Does QD apply to both weapons if you have TWF? I have no idea how to run a rogue in combat. :D
ArochanoX 01-25-06, 02:33 PM	Use rogue bard or rogue cleric, they're magnificient combos to play. About the power I'm not sure. I would personally max out in order: Cha, Int, Wis (if cleric, otherwise dumb it), Con, Dex, Str. Use following skills: use magic device, knowledges, bluff, intimidate, diplomacy, sense motive + any other you like. You'd end up a character that shoots sneak attack arrow first and then heal the party with wand of cure light wounds. And buff the party with cleric spells or bardic songs. Out of combat, you're the "face" of the party.
Puca 01-25-06, 02:38 PM	Here's a dumb question thourhg: If you are a rogue with TWF and make a sneak attack, does only the first attack get the extra sneak attack damage? I'm assuming it does.It depends on the conditions that made the sneak attack possible. Some things like Invisibility or Feinting only cause the opponent to be denied his dex bonus for one attack. In which case, the second strike (whether iterative or from TWF) wouldnt get SA. But if the condition that caused the denial of dex lasts beyond the first strike (such as from having to balance or because the attacker is still invisible [Improved Invisibility]) then you get full SA damage on each and every attack in that round, including those from TWF. Oh yeah, and while flanking too, both hits will get SA. I took dodge because it was a pre-req for Shadow dancer, and my AC ain't that great. However, I'm not sure I want to go Shadowdancer. What feat would be a good replacement for "dodge." Dodge isnt the greatest feat, but +1 is ok and it is the prereq for a lot of things like Mobility which can lead to Spring Attack and a lot of other PrCs too, so it wont hurt you to stay with it. I've decided to drop quick draw and add TWF. Does QD apply to both weapons if you have TWF?Yes. Additionally, TWF (by itself, without Quickdraw) will let you draw two weapons as part of a move action.