Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Disco 07-31-05, 10:25 PM	Okay so I have an animal companion, a female panther, here are some questions. 1) If I wildshape into a panther can I get the panther pregnant? 2) If not, does that mean as a panther I can get a human pregnant? What would the child look like, human or half-panther? 3) If two druids, a female and a male wildshaped into pathers and the female got pregnant, then the female wildshaped back into a human, what would the child/foetus look like? He couldn't be a level 5 druid yet, so would the female druid give birth to a human or panther? 4) How would this work for a pregnant female wildshaping into a panther? What would she give birth to? 5) What about if the pregnant female druid was 9 months along and wildshaped into an eagle? Or a larger bird? Because, they lay eggs, how would that work? Thanks for all your help. You just read this post. You can't un-read it.
Tuah Shinguru 07-31-05, 11:01 PM	Technically, a fetus is a part of the mother's body, so it has to change with her. If born into the morph, it would probably wear off (if Wildshift wears off; I don't know much about Druids)
Jell_Moo 07-31-05, 11:29 PM	:eek: Given the subject matter, this topic may be better suited for the Mature board.
Manyfist 07-31-05, 11:31 PM	How I see it is that when you wildshape into something you temp. take on the DNA of that Animal. So you can inpregnate a Panther, and the cubs would be Panther. Also in panther form you can't get a Human pregnate. Also how I see it since the Mother is a Druid the fetus changes form with the female, so when a Druid aquires the Shapechanger subtype, the child will also have a Shapechanger Subtype. I say that at 9 months you lose the ablity to shapechange into any egg laying creature, and when you go into labor you're forced back into human shape. Why are you asking this?
Disco 08-01-05, 01:31 AM	:eek: Given the subject matter, this topic may be better suited for the Mature board. I believe I am pretty conservative compared to most of the people I speak to on the internet, but surely the subject of childbirth has not crossed into the "mature only" realm.
Jell_Moo 08-01-05, 02:04 AM	It more has to do with treading into the realm of beastiality. I personally am not offended, but threads like this one have a tendency to be moved there.
Surreal 08-01-05, 02:10 AM	Congratulations, it's a Grue...
Antioch 08-01-05, 03:25 AM	Note: I changed my mind several times as I was writing this, thanks a lot. First of all, I tend to look at wildshaping as pretty much an entire biological change. This, for obvious reasons, is not touched on in any of the books, and dont hold our breath. Best thing is to make up your own answer and be happy with it. However, since it IS a valid question... I would say yes to one, and no to two. However, then you had to go ahead and ask number three. This changes things, as really I would not want to complicate my game with this degree of genetics. My new answer is no to both and sit on the fact that while you CAN do the bedside boogie, you can only impregnate creatures of your original race. So for three, it would still be a human. For number 4, that would mean human if I keep following the theme. Number five is adds a whole new mess to the mix, which makes me want to change my answer yet AGAIN. And that answer is as follows; wildshaped whatevers cant knock up anything that their base race could not in the first place, and pregnant whatevers cant wildshape at all into any mammal that is smaller than their standard size (so the baby can still be born "normally"), or disallow it entirely.
Disco 08-01-05, 08:17 PM	And that answer is as follows; wildshaped whatevers cant knock up anything that their base race could not in the first place, and pregnant whatevers cant wildshape at all into any mammal that is smaller than their standard size (so the baby can still be born "normally"), or disallow it entirely. But what about a larger bird? Like at level 18 you could turn into a Roc, which would be big enough, but presumably still lays eggs, so wouldn't have the internal biology to actually give birth?
Pliskit 08-02-05, 02:29 AM	I'd rather approach these questions from the fantasy point of view then the genetics/physics point of view. Wildshaped humanoids mating with animals would create halfbreeds as in the Elfquest origins. I have thought of it to create a special half-animal template for occasions like this, but coulnd't think up something that would cover all humanoids on one side, and all animals on the other... As for wildshaping while carrying child, I'd say it gets a heriditary form of wildshaping, and shapes with the mother... It probably would have bonuses when it decided to become a druid itself later on. On the moment of giving birth itself however I'd rule you would have to be in your original shape, anything else would make things needlessly complicated. You could for example rule giving birth the same as falling unconscious (bit far fetched maybe), in the sense that you automatically fall back on your original shape. Two humanoid druids getting it on would surely get a humanoid child in my book, no matter what shape they were in at the time of concieving.
farfairer 08-02-05, 02:44 AM	As far as I understood it when you polymorph or use any ability that functions as polymorph (except shapechange because it says otherwise), any portion of your body that leaves your body (IE a cut off finger, or male sperm) changes back to your orriginal form. Therefore the answers are as follows:1) If I wildshape into a panther can I get the panther pregnant? No. 2) If not, does that mean as a panther I can get a human pregnant? What would the child look like, human or half-panther? Yes. Human. 3) If two druids, a female and a male wildshaped into pathers and the female got pregnant, then the female wildshaped back into a human, what would the child/foetus look like? He couldn't be a level 5 druid yet, so would the female druid give birth to a human or panther? If she could concieve due to this, she would have a normal human baby. 4) How would this work for a pregnant female wildshaping into a panther? What would she give birth to? I would say that she would be unable to give birth while not in her normal form. 5) What about if the pregnant female druid was 9 months along and wildshaped into an eagle? Or a larger bird? Because, they lay eggs, how would that work? Same as the answer to #4. I have a more indepth reason for answers 4 and 5, but I don't know if this is the forum to discuss such things in. If you are interested in my reasons Private Message me.
Harzerkatze 08-02-05, 04:43 AM	First: Ewww. Now on to actually answering the question: From the rules point of view, the answer is quite easy. Alter self description, last sentence: Any part of the body or piece of equipment that is separated from the whole reverts to its true form. - So no impregnating other races than your original one. - Regarding being impregnated, that could be possible if you stay wildshaped long enough. That seems to be the logical conclusion of the official rules. Note, however that e.g. Keith Barker wanted to allow Eberron changelings to fully function sexually like the form they took with minor change shape, including getting children, and minor change shape is definitely lesser shapeshanging magic than wild shape. So alternate rulings are possible. It's your fantasy, after all. Until birth, an embryo would probably count as part of your body, at least that would be easiest rule when it comes to wildshaping while being pregnant: The embryo just vanishes for that time or becomes an embryo of the race you wildshaped into, if that race has embryos. Other rules and opinions are possible here, of course.
Antioch 08-02-05, 04:44 AM	But what about a larger bird? Like at level 18 you could turn into a Roc, which would be big enough, but presumably still lays eggs, so wouldn't have the internal biology to actually give birth? Like I said, it must be of the same type, or at least a mammal. Remember this is how I would do it, feel free to email the official Sage if you want.
Dargan Griess 08-02-05, 05:43 AM	In Races of Eberron information on Changelings has been expanded to state that any Changeling that gets pregnant while in an alternate form becomes fixed into that form for the duration of the pregnancy. The child is born true to the race of the male parent and the form the changeling is in. So if a Changeling is in a Dwarven form and the male parent is a Dwarf they will have Dwarven offspring. If we work off this concept your Druid will be stuck as a Panther and have a litter (What is the collective noun for big cat cubs?) of possibly very bright cubs. Congratulations their "awakened". I find this is a simple and elegant way to avoid all the where does the baby go questions that turn up when shapeshifting. PS. Dont forget to have a collar of telepathy made if your trying this.
TheCarrionCrawler 08-02-05, 12:38 PM	[QUOTE=Dargan Griess]In Races of Eberron, information on Changelings have been expanded to state that any Changeling that gets pregnant while in an alternate form becomes fixed into that form for the duration of the pregnancy. The child is born true to the race of the male parent and the form the changeling is in. So if a Changeling is in a Dwarven form and the male parent is a Dwarf, they will have Dwarven offspring. If we work off this concept, your Druid will be stuck as a panther and have a litter (What is the collective noun for big cat cubs?) or possibly very bright cubs. Congratulations they're "awakened". QUOTE] That's an Eberron rule. By the core rules, I would stick with body parts revert to original forms when they separate. I wouldn't go intermixing them...however, if you're comfortable doing it, then run with it! :D
The Half-Orc Wizard 08-02-05, 02:12 PM	More to the point, how does such a circumstance involving beastiality between a panther and a human come about in your average gaming session?
Disco 08-03-05, 08:46 PM	[QUOTE=Dargan Griess]In Races of Eberron, information on Changelings have been expanded to state that any Changeling that gets pregnant while in an alternate form becomes fixed into that form for the duration of the pregnancy. The child is born true to the race of the male parent and the form the changeling is in. So if a Changeling is in a Dwarven form and the male parent is a Dwarf, they will have Dwarven offspring. If we work off this concept, your Druid will be stuck as a panther and have a litter (What is the collective noun for big cat cubs?) or possibly very bright cubs. Congratulations they're "awakened". That's an Eberron rule. By the core rules, I would stick with body parts revert to original forms when they separate. I wouldn't go intermixing them...however, if you're comfortable doing it, then run with it! :D Yeah, I reckon that these rules seem to make sense, and I couldn't really see them conflicting with any others. The only problem is that we will then have to factor intellectual pathers into the equation - oh, and humans with panther brains, which is kind of sad.
Pliskit 08-04-05, 01:50 AM	More to the point, how does such a circumstance involving beastiality between a panther and a human come about in your average gaming session? Man, I don't know where you've been, but I've seen this happen in numerous D&D-sessions. Most people I know that ever played a druid (and some rangers) have fallen in love with their animal at some point. Admittedly none of them ever really came to the point of the actual mating, let alone producing halfbreeds, but most of them at least contemplated it :) The term "beastiality" is a term used in what I'd like to call "Real Life" and does not apply to fantasy campaigns wherein for example an elven druid in animal shape mates with his/her animal companion.
Patryn Runner 08-04-05, 02:49 AM	No, wouldn't work. You are a human (or some kind of humanoid) Your companion is an animal/feline Could you mate with your housecat??? Possiby using powerful magic you could make little panther creatures, but that would be strange. I'm not judging you though.
Pliskit 08-04-05, 03:13 AM	People, people, people! Please, for the sake of the argument, let's refrain from mixing up real life with fantasy gaming! Elves do not exist in real life! Wildshaping druids do not exist in real life! Therefore this question can NOT be answered by drawing a parallel to having sex with housecats!
Disco 08-07-05, 10:42 PM	Pliskit is right. This is fantasy and the fact you can turn into an animal should steer the stigma of 'mating' away from this conversation. It is no different than two cats.
BarbeChenue 08-08-05, 12:39 AM	The reason WotC gave for the birth of Half-Dragons was often that Dragon parents could "polymorph" into humanoid shapes (or other appropriate shapes). This means that a Dragon in a human shape could have a baby with another human. Obviously, from the very fact Half-Dragons exist, the baby would be half-dragon and half-human. In the case of Wild Shape, which is based on polymorph, it would also be possible to create half-X half-Y creatures. In the above example, a female druid could bear the child of a male panther (minimally), thus giving birth to a new kind of halfbreed. :) I personally don't find this offending, at least not more than having templates for half-fields (which could concievably be the offspring of creatures tremendously more horrific than mundane animals).
JBW 08-08-05, 02:11 AM	any portion of your body that leaves your body (IE a cut off finger, or male sperm) changes back to your orriginal form. What about poison? Jay
Manyfist 08-08-05, 02:20 AM	[QUOTE=Dargan Griess]In Races of Eberron, information on Changelings have been expanded to state that any Changeling that gets pregnant while in an alternate form becomes fixed into that form for the duration of the pregnancy. The child is born true to the race of the male parent and the form the changeling is in. So if a Changeling is in a Dwarven form and the male parent is a Dwarf, they will have Dwarven offspring. If we work off this concept, your Druid will be stuck as a panther and have a litter (What is the collective noun for big cat cubs?) or possibly very bright cubs. Congratulations they're "awakened". Actually ROE said this, A changeling who mates with another race has a 50/50 it be either a Changeling or the other race. Unless you take Racial Emulation then it's 100% the other race. ;)
Pliskit 08-08-05, 02:37 AM	The reason WotC gave for the birth of Half-Dragons was often that Dragon parents could "polymorph" into humanoid shapes (or other appropriate shapes). This means that a Dragon in a human shape could have a baby with another human. Obviously, from the very fact Half-Dragons exist, the baby would be half-dragon and half-human. In the case of Wild Shape, which is based on polymorph, it would also be possible to create half-X half-Y creatures. In the above example, a female druid could bear the child of a male panther (minimally), thus giving birth to a new kind of halfbreed. :) I think the comparisson to the half-anything templates is a very good one, this is finally some "proof" from the rulebook :) What about poison? What aBOUT poison? That's never been part of your body realy, has it?
Harzerkatze 08-08-05, 05:04 AM	What about poison?Poison is a very tricky subject here. When you wildshape into a form with a poisonous bite, it would be logical to say that when you bite someone, your poison obviously has left your body and thus would turn back into regular bile. However, the line about extraordinary attacks in polymorph explicitely mentiones the poison special attack as granted. So the complete rule probably is: Any part that is separated from the body returns to its original form, unless it is part of an extraordinary attack. Or more restrictive: Any part that is separated from the body returns to its original form, unless it is an extraordinary poison attack. That's what you get when you combine the two rules.
Pliskit 08-08-05, 05:23 AM	In that case apologies to JBW for not understanding his remark. Would it be a stretch to have ejaculating fall under extraordinary attacks? :p
Xaean 08-08-05, 08:12 AM	Okay so I have an animal companion, a female panther, here are some questions. 1) If I wildshape into a panther can I get the panther pregnant? 2) If not, does that mean as a panther I can get a human pregnant? What would the child look like, human or half-panther? 3) If two druids, a female and a male wildshaped into pathers and the female got pregnant, then the female wildshaped back into a human, what would the child/foetus look like? He couldn't be a level 5 druid yet, so would the female druid give birth to a human or panther? 4) How would this work for a pregnant female wildshaping into a panther? What would she give birth to? 5) What about if the pregnant female druid was 9 months along and wildshaped into an eagle? Or a larger bird? Because, they lay eggs, how would that work? Thanks for all your help. You just read this post. You can't un-read it. 1)yes 2)no 3)she would get pregnant with a panther would the fetus would be killed upon changing back to human form. 4)Nothing, the shapechanging kills the fetus. 5)If she constantly wears eagle shape, she can lay eagle eggs, but she cannot reproduce with humans. All answers according to the Book of Erotic Fantasy, which in this case I think makes great sense.
JaredMecham 08-08-05, 05:43 PM	In "Rules of the Game: Polymorphing" it was stated that unlike Polymorphing, wildshape does not change your basic Type. I would imagine that is for the specific reason that they don't want Druids to Growth themselves, but any way you slice it, it should have an effect on this conversation. I would think that offspring could never be produced in a 'cross-type' environment. The question still would remain, however, with polymorphed characters. I would think that the half-Whatever templates would indicate that it is at least possible in some cases to go through with the pregnancy.
ragingmaro 08-08-05, 05:53 PM	Now the thing on everyone's mind.. WHY DO YOU NEED TO KNOW! I'm sure there is an interesting story behind this.
DmFuujin 08-08-05, 07:59 PM	What the heck?
woozygremlin 08-08-05, 08:04 PM	Firstly, please do check the Mature Forum I've included this quote of me answering a similar question in my "Class Features" thread. Some guy posted a similar thread about mating with his riding dog, but I'm not sure if its still there... (EDIT: It is "Wild Mating, pg 4.) For future reference, I'm pretty sure anything dealing with bestiality, paedophilia, or rape is confined to the Mature Board. From a purely scientific standpoint it is obvious that RAW a male druid cannot impregnate a female animal in wildshape (his semen would revert to that of a human upon ejaculation), for a female druid mating with a male animal while wildshaped things are slightly more complicated because the entire process takes place within her body, assuming the druid remained in animal form long enough for a zygote to form we face the problem of what will happen when she does resume human form, the most probable result in such an instance would be miscarriage or a stillbirth after a normal pregnancy, however if the druid remains in animal form throughout her pregnancy things should go ahead normally. Of course there are also questions involving female druids impregnating animals while wildshaped, or male druids being impregnated in animal form, but my head is hurting too much to consider them at the moment. As to whether a druid can conceive a child with a member of their own species while wild shaped it seems that there should be no reason it wouldn't work provided the druid maintains their human gender otherwise we have to consider what happens to the druid's womb or semen when wildshape is abated. Although, estrus is not a supernatural or extraordinary ability it is (mostly) a function of changes in the seasons and therefore I do not feel that a druid would not be affected by the seasonal urges of an animal form that they had just taken.
Disco 08-08-05, 08:16 PM	For future reference, I'm pretty sure anything dealing with bestiality...is confined to the Mature Board. So any talk of half-pathers, half-elves or half-orcs is on the mature board. Got it.
slade_caizer 08-08-05, 08:24 PM	So any talk of half-pathers, half-elves or half-orcs is on the mature board. Got it. >.> <.< I wouldn't let the elves hear you call them beasts. Those long ears don't help your cause either--great hearing an' all.
Disco 08-08-05, 10:41 PM	Sorcerors with dragon blood then? The difference between a dragon that turns into a human to mate with a human and a druid that turns into a panther to mate with a panther? hmmmm...
KingNeo 08-09-05, 03:26 AM	Seriously what is the story behind this question?
Antioch 08-11-05, 04:49 AM	Man, I don't know where you've been, but I've seen this happen in numerous D&D-sessions. Most people I know that ever played a druid (and some rangers) have fallen in love with their animal at some point. Admittedly none of them ever really came to the point of the actual mating, let alone producing halfbreeds, but most of them at least contemplated it :) Good for them. For the record, I dont know what games you've played in, but its never happened, nor been contemplated. I suppose this is one of those case by case scenarios, in which case I wont assume either is the norm if you dont. :rolleyes: The term "beastiality" is a term used in what I'd like to call "Real Life" and does not apply to fantasy campaigns wherein for example an elven druid in animal shape mates with his/her animal companion. Forgive me if I didnt see the memo where the way things work and are labeled in D&D cannot go hand in hand to real life. I'll go ahead and start renaming things like incest, swords, cats, and...cheese. After all, cant afford to get these basic things screwed up, can we? I'm also going to hop right onto reworking how things like gravity and physics work, since its RL and all.
Antioch 08-11-05, 04:50 AM	Sorcerors with dragon blood then? The difference between a dragon that turns into a human to mate with a human and a druid that turns into a panther to mate with a panther? hmmmm... Dragons are inherently magical. See Draconomicon for additional details.
Harzerkatze 08-11-05, 08:05 AM	Antioch: That dragons are magical doesn't change the fact that they are a vastly different species than humans are, and if there is a moral component to cross-species breeding in D&D as there is in real life, all stories about sorcerors, changelings, half-whatnots would fall under the same moral principle. You should realize that "beastiality" is not just a term logically categorizing a thing, but also a word carrying much condemnation and disgust in our world. The latter does not have to be the same in D&D. Which is why I agree with various posters that we should leave the moral questions out in this case and just look at the rules of whether it is possible or not. The original poster asked that question, and I see no reason why in a fantasy world, that should be so strange. If you look at the greek classics which are one of the most important foundations for D&D, you have Zeus turning into all kind of animal forms to go womanizing, and you have many a weird critter that is the offspring of gods having intercourse with non-humans. So the question isn't that outlandish. And when we're at it, yeah, you should rework how gravity and physics work in D&D and not base them on Real Life too much. Those pegasuses, griffins and other monsters that desperately flap their wings but can't get off the ground because their bodies are far too heavy to fly are just not really fantasy-like, you know.
Pliskit 08-11-05, 08:40 AM	Thanks Harzerkatze for the support, and thanks Antioch for quoting me in bold script! Now simply noone will be able to ignore my arguments anymore :) As for the use of the term bestiallity, I not only object to bringing a word with such a heavy load on it into the discussion, but also the use of it by Antioch and the likes of him is incorrect. We are not discussing a humanoid having sex with an animal. We are discussing a humanoid in animal-shape having sex with an animal of the same species. As this particular form of copulating does not exist in real life, it is never intended to fall under the definition of bestiallity. Redefine Cheese in D&D-context if you wish. Dragons are inherently magical Druids have learned magic. Please explain the difference between inherited and learned feats within your moral campaign?
woozygremlin 08-11-05, 10:53 AM	Seeing as the Wiz-O's haven't seen fit to move this yet, I could be wrong in my interpretation of the CoC for these things (or maybe the title of this thread is innocent enough to slip by their notice). Either way, I would like to make the following statements: 1. While there are certainly different readings of how reproduction can work in a D&D game it is only natural for people to use RL as the default reference, particularly if YOU assume real-world sex=pregnancy (male/female only) mechanics are involved, that said though by all means use whatever you want. I particularly recommend the use of a xanth-like "Stork Summoning Ritual" you can introduce all kinds of bureaucratic hold-ups while you decide the final result ("fill out cross-breeding form T-37-A", "custom-models cost extra!", "wait another 6-8 weeks for delivery") of course that may be little too cutesy for some tastes... 2. Depending upon the situation and the nature of your campaign your druid's activities could be considered a form of animal abuse which could result in alignment changes, or even loss of druid powers, and would almost certainly make enemies of other druids. 3. The difference between inherent vs. learned magic is that dragons' inherent magic is a natural part of them and extends to every aspect of their lives (even breathing!) so why shouldn't it apply to sex? Druids (or other learned casters) on the other hand... can you imagine the following scene: Older Druid: OK students, good work on those wildshapes, now if you ever want to mate with an animal companion and produce viable offspring, heres how you do it! Alright people drop your pants! This WILL be on the test. Even if we assume that DID happen it would probably be a feat or a spell of some sort rather than an intrinsic part of the wildshape ability.
Rommie 08-11-05, 11:02 AM	I had a problem with polymorph and pregnancy,too, and I deceeded, that I don't allow a pregnant woman to polymorph, because a polymorph into a bird, reptil or dragan will end the pregnancy. Because where are to much biological diferences between the races.
Antioch 08-11-05, 06:29 PM	Antioch: That dragons are magical doesn't change the fact that they are a vastly different species than humans are, and if there is a moral component to cross-species breeding in D&D as there is in real life, all stories about sorcerors, changelings, half-whatnots would fall under the same moral principle. You should realize that "beastiality" is not just a term logically categorizing a thing, but also a word carrying much condemnation and disgust in our world. The latter does not have to be the same in D&D. Fine, then dont make it carry the same degree of disgust. Having intercourse with an animal is still called bestiality. Which is why I agree with various posters that we should leave the moral questions out in this case and just look at the rules of whether it is possible or not. The original poster asked that question, and I see no reason why in a fantasy world, that should be so strange. If you look at the greek classics which are one of the most important foundations for D&D, you have Zeus turning into all kind of animal forms to go womanizing, and you have many a weird critter that is the offspring of gods having intercourse with non-humans. So the question isn't that outlandish. Yeah, and I answered his question. I answered it in as serious manner as I could find myself to muster. By identifying it as bestiality, I'm not inputting a moral question, or labeling it as strange.
farfairer 08-11-05, 10:47 PM	Man, I don't know where you've been, but I've seen this happen in numerous D&D-sessions. Most people I know that ever played a druid (and some rangers) have fallen in love with their animal at some point. Admittedly none of them ever really came to the point of the actual mating, let alone producing halfbreeds, but most of them at least contemplated it :) The term "beastiality" is a term used in what I'd like to call "Real Life" and does not apply to fantasy campaigns wherein for example an elven druid in animal shape mates with his/her animal companion. {bold because you said you like it that way} I have to agree with Anitoch to a small (very small) degree. I have played both a Ranger and a Druid in D&D games, and I have been in many other games where another member of the party was either a Ranger or Druid. As far as my characters are concerned, both were male. My Ranger had a male dire wolf companion, and my Druid had 2 male dogs and a male falcon as companions. At no point was there ever even a contimplation (or snide comment made) about either of them haveing sex or thingking about having sex with their companions. The same goes for every other Ranger and Druid I have seen played. As far as the "bestiality" thing goes, if I understand him correctly, Anitoch's point about dragons, is that they are a mythological magical creature that does not exist in the real world, and as such doesn't carry the same stigmata associated with real-world animals. I personally think the idea of a Druid having sex with his/her companion to be pushing things a bit, but other than that I don't much care.
BarbeChenue 08-12-05, 01:17 AM	In "Rules of the Game: Polymorphing" it was stated that unlike Polymorphing, wildshape does not change your basic Type. I would imagine that is for the specific reason that they don't want Druids to Growth themselves, but any way you slice it, it should have an effect on this conversation. I would think that offspring could never be produced in a 'cross-type' environment. The question still would remain, however, with polymorphed characters. I would think that the half-Whatever templates would indicate that it is at least possible in some cases to go through with the pregnancy. Here's the article, the detail you mention only applies to Elemental Forms: Wild Shape This class feature works like the polymorph spell, except that wildshape is a supernatural ability that works only for the druid using it. It cannot be shared with the druid's animal companion (or other creature with the share spells quality) because it's a supernatural ability. The duration is 1 hour per druid level or until the druid resumes her normal form. Changing form (to animal or back) is a standard action and doesn't provoke an attack of opportunity. At 11th level and below, the druid can assume only animal forms; the size of the animal form to be assumed depends on the druid's level, as noted in the druid class description. Since the power duplicates the polymorph spell, the druid gains the assumed form's extraordinary special attacks, but not its extraordinary special qualities. For example, a druid wildshaped into a wolf gains the wolf's trip attack but not its scent ability. The druid's level determines what size animal form the druid can assume. At 12th level and above, a druid can assume plant forms of the same sizes as the animal forms the druid can assume. At 16th level and above, a druid can assume elemental forms, with the druid's level limiting the size as noted in the druid class description. A druid that takes elemental form retains her own creature type, but gains all the elemental's extraordinary, supernatural, and spell-like abilities (both special attacks and special qualities), and also gains the elemental's feats. Since the druid does not gain the features and traits of the elemental type, the druid does not gain the elemental's immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, and stunning. The druid also does not gain immunity to critical hits or flanking. On the bright side, the druid retains the ability to be raised or resurrected, provided that the druid could be raised or resurrected in the first place. This only applies to Elemental Wild Shape, not all of them. A Master of Many Forms, for example, would get the right type for his form (giant if he's wild shaped into one, etc.). :) Back to your regular program. :D --
bloodninja 08-12-05, 02:14 AM	What if you had a half-dragon/gnome male druid wildshape into a hawk then was enlarged through enlarge animal mate with another elf male who was polymorphed into a female giant owl. What would that look like then? Is there any explanation for this one?
Kayli 08-12-05, 03:01 AM	There exists somewhere (you know, that book that tells you how to play any and every monster race as a PC race) a template for Anthropomorphic animals (animals that have human charecteristics, ie bipedel, oposable thumbs, speach). I suppose that is what might be the offspring of such couplings. It is not too much of a stretch to say that a pregnency is stalled (shoot I had a better word 5 minutes ago) by a Shapechange/polymorph, and resumes again after the Shapechange/polymorph ends.
Disco 08-14-05, 01:22 AM	Seriously what is the story behind this question? Firstly, some background, ever since he first tried it a few years ago, our DM, Graham, seems to enjoy making us role play certain events. We try to take it with good grace, but, you know, it's kind of weird. Okay so here is what happened: the DM, Graham, ruled that my panther was on heat, which I knew about. We were alone and had to catch up with the party. I wildshaped as an effort to move faster (40ft) and since I had wildshaped at the time, I had to take a willpower test to avoid the act, and yes, I failed. I will not go into the graphic description of what happened, but needless the say that: a) Graham provided it b) I wouldn't go into it, mature board or not c) Soon after the failed willpower test, the topic of pregrency came up d) Graham needs some serious help
Antioch 08-14-05, 02:52 AM	Okay so here is what happened: the DM, Graham, ruled that my panther was on heat, which I knew about. We were alone and had to catch up with the party. I wildshaped as an effort to move faster (40ft) and since I had wildshaped at the time, I had to take a willpower test to avoid the act, and yes, I failed. Righto, so where does he get the idea that wildshaping enforces an entire mental paradigm shift? Not at all, lest you be prepared to attack your own party should you assume the form of many predatory animals. Face it, your DM was wrong to force such an action (which is like saying that you have to make a Will save to prevent yourself from having intercourse with an attractive woman).
Pliskit 08-14-05, 09:10 AM	In this I have to backup Antioch. In animal shape you maintain your characters intelligence, and therefore you are able to overcome the instincts of your animal form.
runestar 08-14-05, 09:43 AM	*shrugs* It's his game. Maybe he has a curse or something that causes him to adopt the mindset of any animal she wild-shapes into(and he's not yet aware of it). Or maybe that's the way wild-shape is implemented in his campaign. Whatever it is, its over and done with. SInce this is completely undocumented, I would say just go with whatever you feel most comfortable with.
Disco 08-14-05, 08:50 PM	In this I have to backup Antioch. In animal shape you maintain your characters intelligence, and therefore you are able to overcome the instincts of your animal form. Hence I use my own willpower save, but the same biological forces still apply.
Retarded pc minder=DM 08-15-05, 03:39 AM	Allow me to clarify for all those concerned. Your discussion was an amusing thread for me to watch, until our hero protaganist disco decided that this would become more amusing if he provided some sort of national lampoon's scenario as an excuse for the machinations of his twisted mind, thus making me his ever enduring GM, as some sort of psyche ward patient with a penchant for, well this isn't a mature board but you know where I'm going. Of course, being a philosophy major, he feels it is his right, nay, his duty to pose truly stupid and inconsequential questions that succeed in achieving nothing but derailing a gaming session. Disco, you jerk. Disco posed this question while bemoaning his lack of animal companion(I'm not sure if subconsciously he was planning a breeding program to ensure such a lack never happened again.) The whole group laughed, he insisted, some laughed some cried, he began espousing theory(adnauseum sp as philosophy students seem empowered to do) some laughed, most cried, I groaned(and fantasized about pouring dice down the back of his jumper wrapping him in glad wrap and beating him like a pinata for dnd players). He then stated with glee that he would post this to find out. There was no on heat panther, hell there isn't even a panther, and after his post giving the scenario. Well frankly the closest he'll get to a panther animal companion is naming his soon to be groundhog animal companion 'panther'. I hope this helps.