Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Mollusk 11-17-06, 12:38 PM	So I'm a Rogue and about to hit lvl 5, and plan to take this level as a Rogue to go ahead and grab the 3d6 SA... However, I'm not sure where to go after that because must melee rogue builds that i see generally dont have 5 or more levels of straight rogue. Most are 3 or 4, then branch to other things. I don't have levels in any other classes, have Improved Initiative and Weapon Finesse. Stats are 14,17,13,12,12,11... Any suggestions on what i should dip into next? Prestige classes? Basic classes? ( I know a lot of people like Swashbuckler, which grants the Weapon Finesse feat at 1, which i happen to already have. If this would deter someone from recommending it to me, bc i know a lot of people like to take it specifically for that feat, i'm sure my DM would let me switch the feat i picked up at lvl 3, Weapon Finesse, to TWF, and then just get Weapon Finesse from the Swashbuckler.... Hope that made sense.) Thanks dudes.
periscope 11-17-06, 01:05 PM	There is always the invisible blade prc from CW that grants sneak attack, full BAB and your int to ac as long as you dont wear armor, I also think it reduces the time it takes to feint to a free action.
angryscrub 11-17-06, 01:22 PM	Invisible blade is good, but only works for daggers. Not a problem if you already specialized in daggers. But the prereqs are a little odd for what seems intended to be a melee class, so unless you planned from the beginning to go into it, you probably don't have them. Other than that, nothing wrong with staying straight rogue in my own humble opinion. Some will disagree, but a straight rogue can be pretty effective all the way to the top. Keep up that UMD, and flank with the tank, and you'll always have something to contribute.
archcomponent 11-17-06, 01:28 PM	Maybe you should stop thinking of your character as a 'build' and metagaming. Honestly, you are going to decide now that in in X levels your character will suddenly get training as a swashbuckler from nowhere? Please.
pallandrome 11-17-06, 02:03 PM	Wow, that might be considered a little rude there buddy. Unless, of course you are in his campaign and know details about it that the rest of us don't. Anyways, I often like picking up a few levels of wizard, and then going into Arcane Trickster. Also, shadowdancer can be a lot of fun, but ya can't get into that until 8th level.
Mollusk 11-17-06, 03:02 PM	Hey archcomponent, you're a DICK... 'Build' is a legit term for all classes, feats, abilities, etc. that you plan to pursue as a character... Also, what do you mean, take Swashbuckler out of nowhere? I meet any reqs for that, and that's how that works.... Why post if you have absolutely nothing to contribute. What makes you so almighty? I don't understand you criticizing someone for planning ahead in a game where some many things branch off one another and many requirements. That's only logical... Thanks to everyone else for the contributions. I appreciate it.
The_Shaman 11-17-06, 05:29 PM	Mollusk, please hold the tone down a little, too. Anyway, if you already have improved initiative, you might be interested in the Nightsong enforcer class from CAdv. The problem is, it is a rogue/fighter class, and it shows in the skills. Technically, it should be readily adaptable in your campaign: if you stick with a rogue guild for a while, they might train you a little, and rp-wise you could progress from there on your own. The good part is... well, almost everything else: full BAB, almost complete SA progression (4 dice over 2 levels :rolleyes:), and your teammates won't mind the bonuses from the teamwork features either. You can also wear heavier armors (i.e. chain shirt) without penalty. Compared to the full rogue, you lose on some rogue abilities. You get two - imp. evasion and opportunist, and the latter + combat reflexes can be quite fun. However, the build requires BAB of 5 and 10 ranks in hide/ms, which iirc means you have to take it around lvl 8. Two levels of fighter could fill in okay (two more feats don't hurt), and if you get four, this can get you weapon specialization, hence weapon mastery. Also, the combination of agility training and mithral medium armors can help your AC as well. Swashie could be useful, and technically is among the easier multiclasses to justify for a thief (heck, it was a thief kit when it came out, hopefully you can find someone to tell you which end of a sword to hold), but for you it is not worth it. Generally, if you don't have 14+ intelligence, it's fun only for roleplaying reasons. Er, I suppose I should have started with that, but what do you want to develop more? Skills? Weapon abilities? Exotic stuff?
Mollusk 11-17-06, 09:44 PM	Thanks man... Um, i'd like to focus in on combat.. I was looking to go the TWF route possibly, and maybe picked up a level of Monk (for flurry). I do however like having a wide range of skills, but a new member to the group is sort of doing the jack-of-all-trades thing so if i lost some skill points then i wouldnt be too upset. Thanks bro.
Krevon 11-17-06, 09:56 PM	Go fighter, you get the feats quicker and the ability to specialize. Climb jump and swin will help on getting into paces, and intimidate is great when the bluff fails.
Krevon 11-17-06, 09:57 PM	I didn't think of this either, but you could go befguiler so your skill keeps up. plus if you're an improved feint rouge you eventualy get to feint as a free action.
GhostStepper 11-17-06, 10:25 PM	Ive got a character now with rogue levels combined with swordsage and bloodclaw master. I got a swordsage level to pick up some prereqs for the bloodclaw master as well as the Assassin's Stance that gives a +2d6 to SA. 2 levels of Bloodclaw master will net you perfect 2 weapon fighting as long as your using 2 daggers, kukris, kama, claws, handaxes or unarmed strikes. If you go with daggers you might as well pick up the Shadow Blade feat as well which grants you Dex damage you make with your daggers (or any shadow hand weapon) while in your Assassin's Stance. So, for a few levels of SS and BCM you get +2d6 SA, Dex to damage and no penalty for TWF. Not a bad set up for a TWF dagger build.
saidin0111 11-17-06, 10:45 PM	sword sage is good, get the Island of Blades stance that allows you to flank without being on opposite sides, all you have to do is be adjacent to the same opponent that an ally is adjacent to, they gain the benefits, too the cloak of deception boost is also a winner, as a swift action, for one round benefit from imp. invis., it is just a 2nd level manuever with no prereq's, I actually suggest going warblade for the swift action all manuever recovery that must be followed by an attack, and then using two feats to gain the above manuever and stance, the assassin's stance would also be good to pick up, but if you go warblade, that might make the feat expenditure too great for what you get, esp. if you are going twf
Mollusk 11-19-06, 08:13 PM	I was considering taking a level of Monk for Flurry of Blows in order to maximize sneak attack damage. I of course cant wear armor to use this ability, which would leave me at an AC of 13... What are some ways I could improve my AC ( that stay within a general path of becoming a melee rogue...?). Thanks.
AbsentMindedProfessor 11-19-06, 08:19 PM	What's wrong with just staying rogue? Otherwise, Monk is not bad if you pick up the feat in CAd that let's you stack levels for unarmed damage. And if you succeed with stunning fist, then your subsequent attacks are all sneak attacks. Or mix in some fighter and make a spring attack combattant and that will help keep you away from danger.
Belgian Waffle 11-19-06, 08:34 PM	I'm going to second going to Swordsage. I'd say hit level 6 Rogue and then go a couple levels with Swordsage. You pretty much get to keep your skills and you get plenty of things to help out with Backstab damage. After that, it's up to you, but I'd probably go Assassin, which further helps out with Backstab shenanigans... and maybe a couple more levels of swordsage later on to get some of the more powerful manuevers. Maybe you should stop thinking of your character as a 'build' and metagaming. Why should he? Some people gotta remember that this is a game.
saidin0111 11-19-06, 09:44 PM	I think one must strike a balance between looking at a character and at a build, if you do not do at least some build planning, you will later see an option and say, "I really want that, it would be neat to have right now, but alas, I need feats x,y,z and stat a at 13, that'll take me 12 levels to get, but it'll be not so neat then, darn, stupid feat and stat choices," or you could look for options ahead of time that look neat to you and fit your character concept and plan things out so that you can get them while they are still neat and impressive, instead of later finding out that you'll have to be lvl 27 to get that whirlwind attack you decided was neat and could have gotten much earlier had you done some planning EDIT: the whole idea of a game is to have fun, so if you can't ever seem to get those neat options that you find until much later, when they are less useful or you could have had them for a long time, you won't be having much fun, b/c you can't have the character you would like to have, in fact you might even be unable to take feats that fit the flavor of your character, b/c you didn't plan ahead to get one or two that have multiple feat chains that feed into them, you have to plan ahead to have the "character" you want as much as you have to plan ahead to have the "build" you want