Post/Author/DateTime	Post
wanderer3791 07-05-07, 07:23 PM	We are starting a new campaign (Slaughtergarde) and we need a final PC (will be party controlled since there are only 4 of us plus the DM). We currently have: 1. Warmage/Spellguard of Silverymoon (we are in FR) 2. Abjurer/Initiate of Sevenfold Veil/Master Specialist 3. Rogue/Swordsage (Shadow Hand heavy - trap guy with Able Learner) 4. Some cleric (looking for suggestions here) 5. ? Any ideas you may have for the cleric build and fifth character are appreciated. The cleric could be a melee-cleric or a more conservative healer. We have thrown around various ideas: Crusader, dual-wielding swash/dervish, dwarven paladin/hammer of Moradin, as well as several others! Any WotC books or setting-specific content is valid. Thanks for the suggestions.
Meep326 07-05-07, 07:39 PM	Shifter Barb (with the Lion Totem from Complete Champion)/Bear Warrior CWar/Weartouched Master Eberron Campaign Setting (I think.) He goes, no ragey for me (turns into a Dire Bear then shifts into a Wear Bear). The bonuses are different (unspecified from the Bear Warrior, and Racial from the Weartouched Master.) Earliest you could do it is Barb 7/Bear Warrior 10/Weartouched Master 5 so yea, you can't do it til epic, but both classes offer great bumps along the way, you can turn into Black then Brown bear with Bear warrior and bumps to your shifting in Weartouched Master. And with the right equipment along the way he'll have a 69 str at 23rd level when he goes bear form and wearbear form.
El_Machinae 07-05-07, 08:20 PM	If there's no specific player, the Bard would probably be best. That way, the character can be used efficiently without worrying about collecting glory.
Tolby 07-05-07, 08:55 PM	Dragonshaman or Marshell.
bkdubs123 07-06-07, 12:01 AM	I'd go marshall. But that's just because I haven't seen anyone play one yet.
runestar 07-06-07, 12:09 AM	Maybe crusader for tanking?
danielinthewolvesden 07-06-07, 03:22 AM	Dragon Shaman is the best "5th member" class I have seen. For cleric- try Archivist. Not as powerful as Cleric, but the skills are useful. Or Favoured Soul.
WolfHati 07-06-07, 07:47 AM	Bards always nice as a fifth member. But since the choices you've listed seem more fightery type I'll vote for the dwarf paladin. Because both dwarves and paladins are just darn fun.
Evicmar 07-06-07, 07:57 AM	For the cleric, a cleric of pelor/radiant servant of pelor. For the 5th class, I'd go with a 1st level sorc/paladin the rest of the way. Take non-somatic spells like true strike so you have no spell failure for heavy armor.
Steely_Dan 07-06-07, 08:58 AM	Incarnate – fulfil a different role everyday.
Aage 07-06-07, 09:19 AM	Incarnate – fulfil a different role everyday. Or a Binder... But, since the party seems to be lacking a front-liner, I'd suggest Warblade (or crusader, if that's your cup of coffee)... Maybe go into deepstone sentinel or some other nice ToB PrC...
The_Shaman 07-06-07, 09:24 AM	Your party is kind of on the lightweight side, so if you are starting early a warrior of sorts could be useful. I would suggest a barbarian or a multiclass ranger (or both, there is some synergy among the classes), as they can also help you with wilderness survival and will not slow you down too much. A PrC like the Primeval (yes, it takes some feats to qualify, but it still wipes the floor with the Bear Warrior) can bring an interesting take on the meatshield role. Interestingly enough, the role can be approached from the other side by getting a druid and gearing him/her for improved combat abilities (possibly with PrCs like nature's warrior, warshaper, etc) A paladin, crusader, or a fighter (multi or prestige) could also be a good way to keep the weaker members from harm. If you are playing in the Silver Marches, the Knight Errant of Silverymoon (SMarches book) can be a fitting member of the team. On the other hand, if you feel confident that the party does not need more protection, a bard or dragon shaman can be handy. I prefer the bard, though - skill points are always useful, especially if the rogue is more of a skulk and less of a diplomancer.
Lawkeeper 07-06-07, 09:31 AM	As I understand, the 5th PC is gonna be a shared NPC, right ? Better go for full-support character then, so to avoid any "true" PC be stolen his spot. I'd go for a mix bard/cleric (heal- & partybuff-bot type). Go for Divine Inspiration feat to improve Bardic Music. Or bard/druid with later Green Whisperer, Focluchan Lyrist and/or Arcane Hierophant (need the Call Familiar feat). Have it play a perfect support/healer : no real player is gonna complain if all he does is helping all the others. With only support, healing and utility spells, you also won't have to divert too much attention to his abilities during fights. With the role of the healer/party support filled by the shared character, the cleric's player (4th member) can focus on a more dynamic, proactive role. A melee- or spellcasting-focused cleric is fine, or a druid is pretty too.
wanderer3791 07-06-07, 10:53 AM	I talked to our cleric and he told me he has been eyeing the Runecaster from PGtF. I don't know much about that class, but the RP angle he came up with is pretty cool. Are the runes usable by anyone? If so, healing runes all around! Thanks for all the feedback. I hadn't realized how "light" we are. No one to take the brunt of a charge. The rogue will tumble away, the warmage will blast away, and the Iot7V will do her thing. Is someone who can hold ground and keep enemies from getting the the weaker members worthwhile? I know the Deepstone Sentinel is supposed to be able to do that, I suspect so too would a dwarven defender... We are a pretty close-knit group so "stealing someone's thunder" shouldn't be a problem. We all know that survival is the most important thing. If the wizard gets of a lucky shot with his quarterstaff and saves the day - we are all happy!
Clawhound 07-06-07, 11:27 AM	A plain-old-fighter could be good here. He stands and fights, and rolls his dice. His lack of "good stuff" actually works in his favor, as the party can easily remember what the guy can do. Put his feats into "mechanical" feats, such as weapon focus. A lack of expendable abilities means that there is less for the party to track. Make his tag line, "I don't care what you decide. Just tell me what to kill and I'll kill it."
ryanroyce 07-06-07, 11:37 AM	I would suggest a Warblade, since they are teh awesome, but they also have more abilities to juggle and thus need more undivided attention than your basic run-of-the-mill sword-and-boring Dwarf Fighter. A Fighter can be run on auto-pilot "stand there and full-attack repeatedly until it and/or you die from it. Repeat.", making it ideal for the role described. They can gain a meat shield without distracting too much from their own PCs! ;)
inkeyeshasthecoolestart 07-06-07, 11:37 AM	you need a tank. I'd recommend crusader, but fighter is probably the best choice so no one has to remember much stuff.
Sunic_Flames 07-06-07, 11:46 AM	If you want someone to take the heat off, get a Knight. They can actually make foes attack them as opposed to... ignoring the guy in the tin can to apply the beatdown to the mage. :P
Minmaximus 07-06-07, 12:10 PM	I :inlove: warblades. If you want less bookwork they are right, a good old vanilla fighter. Make it a dwarf for good measure.
danielinthewolvesden 07-06-07, 03:42 PM	you need a tank. I'd recommend crusader, but fighter is probably the best choice so no one has to remember much stuff. Right. This seems to be a shared NPC, and altho no doubt a Crusader is nice, it is likely one of the very most complex classes out there.
issac wolf 07-06-07, 03:44 PM	how about a bard/dragon shaman music and auras stack. For flavor play the bongos or something cool like that.
issac wolf 07-06-07, 03:46 PM	Right. This seems to be a shared NPC, and altho no doubt a Crusader is nice, it is likely one of the very most complex classes out there. why not a barbarian for a tank d12s a good con score and then rage.
danielinthewolvesden 07-06-07, 08:14 PM	why not a barbarian for a tank d12s a good con score and then rage. True, but for an NPC I think they want a support PC, one not in the spotlight. Bard, Marshal, Healer, Dragon Shaman, etc.
Felbarren 07-07-07, 07:15 AM	Ahh, Forgotten Realms. Good times, good times. First off, your cleric. If he's going Runecaster, its solid. Full spellcasting progression, and an interesting craft-based ability. Make it a dwarf, and your golden. Heal runes for the team, and blasty rune mines for enemies. Fun all around. As for your fifth member, I realize its group controlled, but I agree Tank sounds like your best bet, as opposed a buffer, specially with a runecaster and abjurer in the party. Go with something simple, but flavorful. I'm actually thinking, specially if the cleric is dwarven runecaster, maybe he has a guardian, say a dwarven Knight/Dwarven Defender? Guy will be an absolutely tank monster, but it won't be as complicated as the Crusader. He just initiates Fighting challenge, Test of Mettle, and then sinks into Defensive Stance and pounds on monsters as they pound on him. A tower shield and dwarven Waraxe and this sucker is good to go.
asteroth16 07-07-07, 12:07 PM	if you are using all of the wonderful material from forgotten realms, you could make a very mean monk. go monk and multiclas into the Incredible PrC from unapprochable east (shou disciple). sure it may not stand there and take it like a fighter, but you go the two weapon tree and can flurry with melee weapons and you will make ur opponenets cry, plus a monk is a nice skill pseudoskill monkey. also you can prestige to shou at sixth level, and shou has full BAB,d10 hit die(hell only have slightly less health than a fighter because of the 3 monk levels) bonus feats like a fiighter and the ability to flurry with any melee weapon at 5th level. so id go human monk3/fighter2 shou disciple 5 you would do 2d6 damage unarmed with a BAB of +9 your feat selection shoul looks like this at 1st level dodge and stunning fist(from monk) and improved natural attack 2nd level combat reflexes (from monk) 3rd level weapon focus(unarmed strike) you then qualify for shou disciple as far as feats go so you can choose the feats from there
Arminel 07-07-07, 02:07 PM	Like others have said, you've got a light frontline. Go with something that won't let enemies get past your frontline then like a Human Fighter. (Flaw): Combat Reflexes Human: Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Spiked Chain) Level 1: Combat Expertise Fighter 1: Improved Trip Fighter 2: Weapon Focus: (Spiked Chain) Level 3: Knockdown (Sword and Fist, really good) Fighter 4: Weapon Specialization (Spiked Chain) Level 6/Fighter 6: Hold The Line (CW), Deft Opportunist (CAdv) Skill Trick: Never Outnumbered (CScoundrel) I built one of these for my friend and he prestiged it into Master of Chains in Sword and Fist, but you need Improved Disarm for that. Pretty nasty tactical fighter. Something else I read in another thread pointed me to a really nice feat from Tome of Battle, Song of the White Raven. Activating your bardic music is a swift action, and your bard and crusader and warblade levels stack for the purposes of determining the strength of Inspire Courage. Two levels of Bard, go Warblade, Inspirational Boost (1st level spell, Spell Compendium), Words of Creation (Book of Exalted Deeds, Base Will Save +5, Int 15, Cha 15 (blech)) and you've got yourself +4 attack and damage by third level. You could also drop a level of Bard and try and find a prestige class that would advance your spellcasting one level to get first level spells, but I don't know what that would be.
Nifft 07-07-07, 02:54 PM	I'll join the chorus: Frontline. :) Crusader -- Complicated, but very strong and durable. Downside: it may take a whole person's attention to run this PC, thanks to managing their delayed damage pool, granted/expended maneuver pool, stance benefits, etc. Dragon Shaman -- Much less state, very un-complicated. Take a Copper Dragon Shaman and the auras Power, Senses and Vigor. Other auras are nice to have; those three should be your NPC's bread & butter. Cheers, -- N
wanderer3791 07-07-07, 04:32 PM	Thanks everyone for the awesome feedback.
Johnny_Angel 07-07-07, 09:33 PM	We are starting a new campaign (Slaughtergarde) and we need a final PC (will be party controlled since there are only 4 of us plus the DM). We currently have: 1. Warmage/Spellguard of Silverymoon (we are in FR) 2. Abjurer/Initiate of Sevenfold Veil/Master Specialist 3. Rogue/Swordsage (Shadow Hand heavy - trap guy with Able Learner) 4. Some cleric (looking for suggestions here) 5. ? Any ideas you may have for the cleric build and fifth character are appreciated. The cleric could be a melee-cleric or a more conservative healer. We have thrown around various ideas: Crusader, dual-wielding swash/dervish, dwarven paladin/hammer of Moradin, as well as several others! Any WotC books or setting-specific content is valid. Thanks for the suggestions. I'd go with a bard; give him a ranged weapon. Have the bard take some healing spells. I'm not sure about the cleric because I'm not familiar with the FR deities.
Arcane Guyver 07-08-07, 02:08 AM	I'm a bit confused as to why a 5th member is needed...that adventure is designed with 4 PCs in mind. If you need an NPC, I'd recommend the group designing him/her, and then have the DM run it. That said: bard, dragon shaman, or marshal. Only the DS stands a chance of stealing the spotlight with his flashy dragon's breath. Another option would be have the 4th player play something melee-centric and cool (such as the Crusader) and then make the NPC a cleric healerbot. If the cleric spends all his spells supporting the party, they won't be the center of attention anytime soon.