Post/Author/DateTime	Post
dnddreamer 01-25-07, 02:22 AM	Ok guys...I need so help. I'm starting in an existing campaign soon and get to make a 9th level PC (with a max of +3 LA). The DM welcomes any published material...I would need to sell him things off the net...so I'd rather not go that way. The group is in serious need of a Damage Dealer, Tank, and/or Healer. Here is what they have: Half-Dragon Mage Monk/Ninja Elven Rogue Halfling Rogue The easy answer is for me to create a cleric...but I HATE clerics. When I spoke to one of the players, he told me that is what they needed...but according to the DM the last NPC he had in to assist the players was a Fighter/Wizard. I need some help creating a Healer/Damage Dealer without becoming a Cleric. I thought of Favored Soul...but I would like to have a better BAB so I could dish out some damage. I thought of a Ranger or Paladin with a bunch of wands of CMW...but by 10th level the damage done is huge by the end of a battle and that could get expensive. I like the idea of an Ardent (Life Mantle), but the DM allows psionics though he doesn't use them and is going to be running psionics are different which he will find out that would be a mistake. Any ideas out there. 9th level with a possible +3 LA if so desired.
Mrloki 01-25-07, 02:29 AM	You can't get the full BAB and get good healing spells dude. Gotta sacrifice somwhere. At least with cleric(or favored soul) you get the spells to make you into a dmg dealer... You could also always go with a summoner, that way ya got dmg dealing, and can heal.
Neutronium_Dragon 01-25-07, 02:31 AM	Check out the Crusader class in the Tome of Battle. It meets both damage dealing and tank qualifications, and with the right maneuvers it can assist with healing too. You're best off avoiding level adjustments when using it, though; like casters, they're better off with higher initiator levels.
Aerunation 01-25-07, 02:35 AM	I'd do Paladin 5/Pious Templer 4(complete warrior pg50) they have the cleric's spell list plus you gain "mettle"(the evasion of fort and will) at level 1 which works wonders with divine grace. If you want to take 2 levels of monk for evasion you would be a force for casters to reckon with. Paladin4/monk2/pioustemplar3(that would leave you with 1 1st level spell or 2 1st level and 1 2nd if your wisdon was high enough. Druids are good in combat and are good healers too, since you do not want to go the cleric route.
DM Denubis 01-25-07, 02:36 AM	Hate to say it, but that party's itching for a Cleric. I mean, yeah, you could probably get away with Crusader, but a Cleric is really what you need. If you don't mind my asking, what is it about the Cleric class that you hate? Perhaps there's an alternative that would make it more fun to play.
pathwalker 01-25-07, 03:06 AM	Don't forget, Paladin's got Turn Undead too! What's that got to do with healing? Well... Maxed out charisma (18), +2 for level 8 (20), and if you can get it, a cloak of charisma of at least +2 (22). And a little feat from Complete Divine called Sacred Healing (p84), and said Paladin will be quite the healer all of sudden if used correctly. Another few feats of interest with this route: Force of Personality (Complete Acane, p109) to reduce your wisdom needs. Gift of Grace (Exaulted Deads, p43) to make the most of Divine Grace+High Charisma.
Armoracia Rusticana 01-25-07, 03:39 AM	Divine persistent Divine Power and Righteous Might. BAM, full BAB, Large size, lots of stuff too. Better fighter than fighter. If your DM allows.
Romulan_Knight 01-25-07, 03:44 AM	I would go with Druid, You can do some insane damage with Wildshape I hear and you have Spells glore with enough healing to be worth it.
Aerunation 01-25-07, 03:47 AM	I would go with Druid, You can do some insane damage with Wildshape I hear and you have Spells glore with enough healing to be worth it. Natural spell will be your best friend. You can outclass the fighter as well.
Romulan_Knight 01-25-07, 08:00 AM	Druids basicly rule in terms of power, Though it seems all of the proper caster classes are uber compared to the other non-main casting classes.
kadeity 01-25-07, 08:16 AM	am i the only person who is suprised that the Dm is allowing 3 experts? i GUESS its ok, but theres NO DOUBT in my mind that you guys are gonna fight Undead,Constructs,Oozes,Plants and Elementals more than anything else. You guys are seriously not gonna have any healing... but if I was a player, i would just play Main Tank. I mean, one of those flimzy rogues is gonna kick it.... especially when the dm starts rolling out the immune-to-crit types... so either let the guy who dies play the healer... OR... you can play a Cleric. I THINK you guys need reliable Mellee damage more than you need healing. The mage is gonna stay back, and the ninja can ghost step out of harms way.... but mark my words, your two rogues are gonna drive you nuts no matter what you do... because they will ALWAYS be trying to flank whatever you fight so they can get ther sneak attack damge... But when your Dm rolls out that Clay Golem... all immune to crits and magic... your team will be really really really scroood. Keeping those rogues alive is nearly a waste of time. I would suggest you guys just invest your gold wisely in a lot of alot of potions... and you run main tank.
kadeity 01-25-07, 08:20 AM	Gave some thought to druid. and you can run main tank and healer. Youll need the PHB2 though. The Shapeshift Variant You will trade out your animal companion& wild shape for a different shapeshifting ability with a short list of set forms, all of which come with natural armor, and major buffs to STR. this is how you will tank. The Restoration Variant Youll trade your ability to summon natures ally spontaniously for a better option... you can now sacrifice a spell to create an aura of fast healing equal to the spells level for three rounds. This will help you heal, and your also gonna always prepare healing spells.
dnddreamer 01-25-07, 10:12 AM	Gave some thought to druid. and you can run main tank and healer. Youll need the PHB2 though. The Shapeshift Variant You will trade out your animal companion& wild shape for a different shapeshifting ability with a short list of set forms, all of which come with natural armor, and major buffs to STR. this is how you will tank. The Restoration Variant Youll trade your ability to summon natures ally spontaniously for a better option... you can now sacrifice a spell to create an aura of fast healing equal to the spells level for three rounds. This will help you heal, and your also gonna always prepare healing spells. I was thinking about a Druid but instead of going The Restoration Variant, I'd take the Spontaneous Healer feat from Complete Divine and instead of the Shapeshift I would take the Aspect of Nature varient and the Druidic Avenger Varient with an Extra Rage feat. Also, kadeity, I agree wholeheardly with your previous post about running a damage dealer/Tank and letting those rogues possibly die off but I'm not sure if the DM is playing to cater to all those rogue types in the party or not.
malisteen 01-25-07, 10:19 AM	Druid or Cleric, properly built, would do what you want, even if you don't like the idea (think of the cleric as a more magically powerful paladin, maybe). Do look at crusader, and the "Ruby Knight Vindicator" PrC, both in Tome of Battle. Crusader is an Excellant tank, reasonable damage dealer, and so-so healer. Multiclass Cleric and move into Ruby Knight Vindicator to become an Excellant Tank, good Damage Dealer, and reasonable Healer, along with some potential sneakiness to complement your rogues.
Rulebook 01-25-07, 10:31 AM	kad... maybe he has one of those DM's that let the players decide what they would like to be, and mabye builds a game around them? my advice: stay away from the Tome of Cheese its too easy. I'd say go for something akin to a Druid or Paladin. Maybe multiclass a little into a half-caster PrC for a little more spell power, but stay with the crunchy frontness with a healing back-end. If you want real fun-ness, say skrew the healing. the best defense is a strong offence: Gish build, or full blaster. I'm talking the standard fig/wiz/EK, or if you have access to it, the Warmage. i'm going to assume that the Half-dragon wiz is more of a semi-gish, as that +3 LA makes him useless as a primary spellcaster (a 6th level wiz in a 9th level game isnt all that great) at 9th level, most enemies are still blast-able, and you can work on being a buffer/crafter later on. if your DM isnt too mean with how he puts out monsters, a Pally/Sorc gish is -really- fun. there's nice synergy with CHA, but you tend to MAD out a little. (cheat when you roll. heh)
Fallenangel359 01-25-07, 12:20 PM	tome of battle is by no means tome of cheese. Its maneuvers are strong, but they aren't too strong. When you compare a swordsage to a scout, they are approximately the same. When you compare a shadowbane inquisitor to a crusader, they are about the same Warblades kinda goofy
Johnny_Angel 01-25-07, 03:37 PM	This may not be the best option, but it's the first one which came to mind. Feral Goliath Fighter/Cleric Feral is in Savage Species; Goliath is in Races of Stone You don't seem to like the cleric, but I think that's really your best option in this situation. Take the War and Healing Domains.
MareltEkiran 01-25-07, 07:36 PM	Try to negociate the Rebalanced Paladin (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=761045) with your DM. If he allows it, you'll have a decent warrior/tank with sufficient healing options to keep a party standing (but without the power level of the Cleric).
Tony Vargas 01-25-07, 07:51 PM	I need some help creating a Healer/Damage Dealer without becoming a Cleric....ah, the perenial unpopularity of the cleric... that really is what the party needs, though... well, that and a warrior type instead of the monk or one of the rogues... I thought of a Ranger or Paladin with a bunch of wands of CMW...but by 10th level the damage done is huge by the end of a battle and that could get expensive.Try a WoCLW for between-combat healing, saving potions or scrolls of more powerful cure spells for in-combat emergencies. At 750gp for 50 charges, it's pretty cheap. If you go with Ranger, you might take some crit-immune favored enemies, so you can pick up some of the slack when the Rogue's SA doesn't work... Of course, if you don't hate Druids as much as you hate Clerics, that's also an option... However you go with it, though, you're kinda stuck filling two roles with one character, because the other players left it to you to round out the party. Or, at least one-and-a-half roles - the rogues & monk, together, might well be able to fill in for the warrior role much of the time.