*Anybody thought about a warlockesque psionic class?* [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Pitiless_Interfector
02-05-07, 08:45 PM I've thought about it a while now, and I think if done right it can bring back some of the uniqueness of psionics and provide opportunities to break new ground both in story-based roleplaying and in reckless criminal behav--I mean adventuring. Sorry. ;)
I mean, it'd be easy just to create a psionic equivalent for the warlock by simply changing a few names--just look at the artificer--but what I think we all want is a class that is as different from the warlock as the warmage is from the beguiler. And what I really didn't like about the warlock was his lack of versatility. I mean, we don't want to create a class that's just as versatile as the psion, because then there'd be no point in becoming a psion; but neither do we want a class that is simply 12 different ways to blow things up. I was thinking of stripping off most of the class features (especially eldritch blast), and adding more of the psionic equivalent to invocations (mentations? cognates? Damn this nonrefillable prescription! :mad: ).
Perhaps 2 at 1st level, and an additional one at every (or almost every) level beyond that? Then again, it all really comes down to what the psinvocations do. I figured they should require you to expend your psionic focus to use (at least for the first few levels) to keep them from dominating the game. My (easily revised) core concept was of a guy who dances around the battlefield, staying out of his enemies reach (psionic levitate, telekinetic buffer, greater concealing amorpha) and blasting them with prodigious quantities of anti-buffs and impediments (ectoplasmic cocoon, serenity, inflict pain), while still having a few utility and noncombat powers to fall back on (my light, create sound, correspond), and a handful of group-oriented abilities (zone of alertness, etc.).
Of course, I'm neglecting the RP aspects. About those:
Basically, we could go two (or more-feel free to post suggestions) directions here: either his powers come from some entity inside his skull (fragment personalities, quori), or (better for nonEberron campaigns) they come from him simply disbelieving certain physical laws (what ability does this represent? not Intelligence; he's trying to override logic. But should it be Wisdom or Charisma? Default guess is Charisma, but I think Wisdom would represent a nice change of pace). Now, there's of course the issue of why he has to wait to get certain psinvocations-if he can disbelieve one law, why not another? This is similar to the truenamer's dilemma, and I'm going to use a similar (but less obviously contrived) explanation: the humanoid brain is biologically prgrammed to understand certain things on an instinctual level, and to pick up on other things very early in life. Overriding these instincts, convincing yourself that the law doesn't apply to you, requires a great deal of personal power, but once it has been proven invalid, it is no longer a restriction (hence unlimited use of a psinvocation). Of course, momentary doubt would potentially cause you to fail, but this assumes you've spent considerable downtime practicing, conquering your doubts one at a time, before returning to disemboweling kobolds, or looting merchant caravans, or desecrating human corpses, or what have you. The one problem with this approach, of course, is that by the time you've reached epic levels you have lost so much of your grip on reality that you've gone completely batsh!t. Then again, this could be an interesting RP hook (and a good in-game fit for those Kalashtar who fail to maintain mental discipline and therefore go insane). Of course, this could mean the class has an alignment restriction, but whether it's simply nonlawful or always chaotic is up for interpretation.
I suppose its time to bare my neck and offer my metaphorical blade to the web community, so here goes:

Least:
control flames + matter agitation
create sound + control sound
entangling ectoplasm + psionic grease
demoralize + primal fear
telempathic projection + serenity
call to mind + eidetic lock
levitate + float (personal only)
detect psionics + identify
my light + control light
forced sense link + mindlink
inflict pain + id insinuation
deflection field + far hand
astral traveler + know direction and location
zone of alertness + detect hostile intent
object reading + sensitivity to psychic impressions
+

Lesser:
dispel psionics
heavy earth
ubiquitous vision + touchsight
correspond
wall of ectoplasm + ectoplasmic cocoon
psionic dimension door + mental disruption (short range, disruption is centered on your origin and occurs concurrently with your teleport)
brain lock (duration Concentration; save provides 24 hour immunity)

Greater:
telekinetic force + telekinetic thrust + telekinetic maneuver (effectively, duplicates the wizard spell)
aura sight + true seeing
telekinetic buffer + greater concealing amorpha
ethereal agent + psychometry
adapt body + suspend life + sustenance
retrieve + dimensional pocket
dream travel (self plus 50 lbs. of objects only)
fuse flesh (duration 1 min./level; target immune to damaging effects)
shatter mind blank + co-opt concentration (creatures who lose a mind blank effect must make a Will save or be stunned for 1 round)
mass cloud mind
psychic crush (save provides 24 hour immunity)
mass ectoplasmic cocoon (duration 1 round/level)

Superior:
personal mind blank
ethereal jaunt
telekinetic sphere
insanity
phase door
divert teleport + piggyback with 50 lbs. of objects on a teleport effect if you beat their ML check. (you know where they are going, as per trace teleport).

Statwise, I was thinking more along the lines of the psion class, with a slightly different class skill list.

PLEASE POST YOUR SUGGESTIONS AND COMMENTS! YOUR THOUGHTS GIVE MY LIFE MEANING!

:invasion:

:allalone:
periscope
02-05-07, 08:50 PM I like the idea but I would still keep a version of eldritch blast on him as a class feature (see it as him willing an enemy out of reality by concentrating hard enough. Cookie if you get the reference!)
Pitiless_Interfector
02-05-07, 10:02 PM I like the idea but I would still keep a version of eldritch blast on him as a class feature (see it as him willing an enemy out of reality by concentrating hard enough. Cookie if you get the reference!)

Interesting. This "phrenic blast" of yours intrigues me. Enlighten my pagan mind on how to alter the 'Other' psinvocations to maintain the cosmetic differences between the arcane and psionic classes. Perhaps we need not stray as far from the warlock as I had at first anticipated. (There are only so many laws [of which anybody cares] to disbelieve; perhaps simply an alternate list of invocations would suffice (though there may be a need to alter a handful of class features, such as the DR and the magic-item-related powers. Perhaps removal of deceive item and imbue item, and altering of the DR from cold iron to deep crystal (or Riedran crysteel, or adamantine), would suffice, and the rate of invocations would match the warlocks, save for an additional invocation learned at levels 5, 9, and 14. Also, fiendish resilience could be replaced by immunity to fear and morale penalties at 8th, confusion and insanity (from outside sources) at 13th, and daze and stun at 18th [these would be continuously active].
Yes, these were very good ideas, periscope. I submit to your superior acumen and supernal wisdom. May only I have time to grok your words in fullness. :bow:
periscope
02-05-07, 11:05 PM Where u serious or being sarcastic, I've lost the ability to tell between the two?
mkill
02-06-07, 12:31 AM In game play, the main difference between a psion and a "psionic warlock" would be, that the warlock doesn't need to keep track of psi-points, while the psion has a wider range of powers and lots of gimmicks to add versatility, such as the psicrystal.

For a quick and easy fix, there is the Psionic power
Energy Ray (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/energyRay.htm), which is pretty much the Psions Eldritch Blast.

To give the Psion a more "Warlockish" feel, devise a feat that reduces the PP cost of the energy ray, allowing the Psion to shoot them for free up to a certain strength.

RAY ATTUNEMENT [Psionic]
You can shoot energy rays efficiently without expending to much of your power.
Prerequisite: Energy Ray power
Benefit: For every three manifester levels that you have, the power point cost of energy rays is reduced by one. The cost can be reduced to zero with this feat.

(Note that the rays normally do Xd6+X, so the die increase should be a little slower than the warlocks.)
Mkire
02-06-07, 12:37 AM Thou art god.
The_Shaman
02-06-07, 07:50 AM Wouldn't the wilder, with some modifications, fit the role best? It doesn't have to be 100% warlock, after all.
Pitiless_Interfector
02-11-07, 11:35 AM Where u serious or being sarcastic, I've lost the ability to tell between the two?

Is there a difference? Was there a difference? Will there be a difference? Indeed, we have much to ponder.

Just FYI, people: I do intend to keep up with this thing; if it seems like I'm posting infrequently and in a less-than-serious manner, it's because I'm having issues. Don't worry, I'm still hard at work.
Gideon_Gideonson
02-11-07, 02:07 PM I think the main problem here is the difference between the styles of psionics and magic in terms of improving effects. Maybe what we want to do is make something warlockesque, but with psionics (not only abilities that currently exist...many invocations are unique) and give them a reserve of PP to improve their "psinvocations" with. That way they have staying power, but can get a little more oopmh out of their abilities if they need to.

Also, be careful about giving it to many abilities. It shouldn't damage, dominate, de-buff, and buff, like you initially said. It shouldn't be able to do everything. Part of the warlock's (albeit low) balance is that it can't do everything. It can do 12 things. Varied, yes. But only 12.
Crimson_Concerto
02-11-07, 02:20 PM I don't know if THIS (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=789283) helps at all, but it is psychic-flavored, and it is warlock-esque. Feel free to take any ideas you want, I guess, or critique however much you want...
turalisj
02-11-07, 02:36 PM Um... Have you heard of putting things into paragraph form?
Aktariel
02-11-07, 06:07 PM As a start I would direct you here. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=789283)

Really, it just doesn't work the same way. Raw magical power I can see being just thrown around (a la eldritch blast, but it just doesn't work the same way for psionics. Raw psionic power is... ectoplasm? Maybe if you called it something like ectoplasmic fire and gave it flavor text similar to the pyrokineticists' fire whip power, had it deal fire damage...

As to psinvocations, this is tricky. To work best and not run out of power, perhaps giving them the psinvocations known and usable at will [just like your regular warlock], with a pool of PP usable to augment them with psionic feats?
Pitiless_Interfector
02-18-07, 12:03 AM Um... Have you heard of putting things into paragraph form?

Um, have you heard about... Uh... Um... Uh...
D*MN THIS NONREFILLABLE PRESCRIPTION! :headexplo

On an unrelated note, has anyone done anything on a divine-themed warlock? A character with a small number of at-will party buffs and a touch that can turn lethal damage into nonlethal damage could help make up for the warlock's lack of versatility and focus on personal-range abilities.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Pitiless_Interfector 02-05-07, 08:45 PM	I've thought about it a while now, and I think if done right it can bring back some of the uniqueness of psionics and provide opportunities to break new ground both in story-based roleplaying and in reckless criminal behav--I mean adventuring. Sorry. ;) I mean, it'd be easy just to create a psionic equivalent for the warlock by simply changing a few names--just look at the artificer--but what I think we all want is a class that is as different from the warlock as the warmage is from the beguiler. And what I really didn't like about the warlock was his lack of versatility. I mean, we don't want to create a class that's just as versatile as the psion, because then there'd be no point in becoming a psion; but neither do we want a class that is simply 12 different ways to blow things up. I was thinking of stripping off most of the class features (especially eldritch blast), and adding more of the psionic equivalent to invocations (mentations? cognates? Damn this nonrefillable prescription! :mad: ). Perhaps 2 at 1st level, and an additional one at every (or almost every) level beyond that? Then again, it all really comes down to what the psinvocations do. I figured they should require you to expend your psionic focus to use (at least for the first few levels) to keep them from dominating the game. My (easily revised) core concept was of a guy who dances around the battlefield, staying out of his enemies reach (psionic levitate, telekinetic buffer, greater concealing amorpha) and blasting them with prodigious quantities of anti-buffs and impediments (ectoplasmic cocoon, serenity, inflict pain), while still having a few utility and noncombat powers to fall back on (my light, create sound, correspond), and a handful of group-oriented abilities (zone of alertness, etc.). Of course, I'm neglecting the RP aspects. About those: Basically, we could go two (or more-feel free to post suggestions) directions here: either his powers come from some entity inside his skull (fragment personalities, quori), or (better for nonEberron campaigns) they come from him simply disbelieving certain physical laws (what ability does this represent? not Intelligence; he's trying to override logic. But should it be Wisdom or Charisma? Default guess is Charisma, but I think Wisdom would represent a nice change of pace). Now, there's of course the issue of why he has to wait to get certain psinvocations-if he can disbelieve one law, why not another? This is similar to the truenamer's dilemma, and I'm going to use a similar (but less obviously contrived) explanation: the humanoid brain is biologically prgrammed to understand certain things on an instinctual level, and to pick up on other things very early in life. Overriding these instincts, convincing yourself that the law doesn't apply to you, requires a great deal of personal power, but once it has been proven invalid, it is no longer a restriction (hence unlimited use of a psinvocation). Of course, momentary doubt would potentially cause you to fail, but this assumes you've spent considerable downtime practicing, conquering your doubts one at a time, before returning to disemboweling kobolds, or looting merchant caravans, or desecrating human corpses, or what have you. The one problem with this approach, of course, is that by the time you've reached epic levels you have lost so much of your grip on reality that you've gone completely batsh!t. Then again, this could be an interesting RP hook (and a good in-game fit for those Kalashtar who fail to maintain mental discipline and therefore go insane). Of course, this could mean the class has an alignment restriction, but whether it's simply nonlawful or always chaotic is up for interpretation. I suppose its time to bare my neck and offer my metaphorical blade to the web community, so here goes: Least: control flames + matter agitation create sound + control sound entangling ectoplasm + psionic grease demoralize + primal fear telempathic projection + serenity call to mind + eidetic lock levitate + float (personal only) detect psionics + identify my light + control light forced sense link + mindlink inflict pain + id insinuation deflection field + far hand astral traveler + know direction and location zone of alertness + detect hostile intent object reading + sensitivity to psychic impressions + Lesser: dispel psionics heavy earth ubiquitous vision + touchsight correspond wall of ectoplasm + ectoplasmic cocoon psionic dimension door + mental disruption (short range, disruption is centered on your origin and occurs concurrently with your teleport) brain lock (duration Concentration; save provides 24 hour immunity) Greater: telekinetic force + telekinetic thrust + telekinetic maneuver (effectively, duplicates the wizard spell) aura sight + true seeing telekinetic buffer + greater concealing amorpha ethereal agent + psychometry adapt body + suspend life + sustenance retrieve + dimensional pocket dream travel (self plus 50 lbs. of objects only) fuse flesh (duration 1 min./level; target immune to damaging effects) shatter mind blank + co-opt concentration (creatures who lose a mind blank effect must make a Will save or be stunned for 1 round) mass cloud mind psychic crush (save provides 24 hour immunity) mass ectoplasmic cocoon (duration 1 round/level) Superior: personal mind blank ethereal jaunt telekinetic sphere insanity phase door divert teleport + piggyback with 50 lbs. of objects on a teleport effect if you beat their ML check. (you know where they are going, as per trace teleport). Statwise, I was thinking more along the lines of the psion class, with a slightly different class skill list. PLEASE POST YOUR SUGGESTIONS AND COMMENTS! YOUR THOUGHTS GIVE MY LIFE MEANING! :invasion: :allalone:
periscope 02-05-07, 08:50 PM	I like the idea but I would still keep a version of eldritch blast on him as a class feature (see it as him willing an enemy out of reality by concentrating hard enough. Cookie if you get the reference!)
Pitiless_Interfector 02-05-07, 10:02 PM	I like the idea but I would still keep a version of eldritch blast on him as a class feature (see it as him willing an enemy out of reality by concentrating hard enough. Cookie if you get the reference!) Interesting. This "phrenic blast" of yours intrigues me. Enlighten my pagan mind on how to alter the 'Other' psinvocations to maintain the cosmetic differences between the arcane and psionic classes. Perhaps we need not stray as far from the warlock as I had at first anticipated. (There are only so many laws [of which anybody cares] to disbelieve; perhaps simply an alternate list of invocations would suffice (though there may be a need to alter a handful of class features, such as the DR and the magic-item-related powers. Perhaps removal of deceive item and imbue item, and altering of the DR from cold iron to deep crystal (or Riedran crysteel, or adamantine), would suffice, and the rate of invocations would match the warlocks, save for an additional invocation learned at levels 5, 9, and 14. Also, fiendish resilience could be replaced by immunity to fear and morale penalties at 8th, confusion and insanity (from outside sources) at 13th, and daze and stun at 18th [these would be continuously active]. Yes, these were very good ideas, periscope. I submit to your superior acumen and supernal wisdom. May only I have time to grok your words in fullness. :bow:
periscope 02-05-07, 11:05 PM	Where u serious or being sarcastic, I've lost the ability to tell between the two?
mkill 02-06-07, 12:31 AM	In game play, the main difference between a psion and a "psionic warlock" would be, that the warlock doesn't need to keep track of psi-points, while the psion has a wider range of powers and lots of gimmicks to add versatility, such as the psicrystal. For a quick and easy fix, there is the Psionic power Energy Ray (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/energyRay.htm), which is pretty much the Psions Eldritch Blast. To give the Psion a more "Warlockish" feel, devise a feat that reduces the PP cost of the energy ray, allowing the Psion to shoot them for free up to a certain strength. RAY ATTUNEMENT [Psionic] You can shoot energy rays efficiently without expending to much of your power. Prerequisite: Energy Ray power Benefit: For every three manifester levels that you have, the power point cost of energy rays is reduced by one. The cost can be reduced to zero with this feat. (Note that the rays normally do Xd6+X, so the die increase should be a little slower than the warlocks.)
Mkire 02-06-07, 12:37 AM	Thou art god.
The_Shaman 02-06-07, 07:50 AM	Wouldn't the wilder, with some modifications, fit the role best? It doesn't have to be 100% warlock, after all.
Pitiless_Interfector 02-11-07, 11:35 AM	Where u serious or being sarcastic, I've lost the ability to tell between the two? Is there a difference? Was there a difference? Will there be a difference? Indeed, we have much to ponder. Just FYI, people: I do intend to keep up with this thing; if it seems like I'm posting infrequently and in a less-than-serious manner, it's because I'm having issues. Don't worry, I'm still hard at work.
Gideon_Gideonson 02-11-07, 02:07 PM	I think the main problem here is the difference between the styles of psionics and magic in terms of improving effects. Maybe what we want to do is make something warlockesque, but with psionics (not only abilities that currently exist...many invocations are unique) and give them a reserve of PP to improve their "psinvocations" with. That way they have staying power, but can get a little more oopmh out of their abilities if they need to. Also, be careful about giving it to many abilities. It shouldn't damage, dominate, de-buff, and buff, like you initially said. It shouldn't be able to do everything. Part of the warlock's (albeit low) balance is that it can't do everything. It can do 12 things. Varied, yes. But only 12.
Crimson_Concerto 02-11-07, 02:20 PM	I don't know if THIS (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=789283) helps at all, but it is psychic-flavored, and it is warlock-esque. Feel free to take any ideas you want, I guess, or critique however much you want...
turalisj 02-11-07, 02:36 PM	Um... Have you heard of putting things into paragraph form?
Aktariel 02-11-07, 06:07 PM	As a start I would direct you here. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=789283) Really, it just doesn't work the same way. Raw magical power I can see being just thrown around (a la eldritch blast, but it just doesn't work the same way for psionics. Raw psionic power is... ectoplasm? Maybe if you called it something like ectoplasmic fire and gave it flavor text similar to the pyrokineticists' fire whip power, had it deal fire damage... As to psinvocations, this is tricky. To work best and not run out of power, perhaps giving them the psinvocations known and usable at will [just like your regular warlock], with a pool of PP usable to augment them with psionic feats?
Pitiless_Interfector 02-18-07, 12:03 AM	Um... Have you heard of putting things into paragraph form? Um, have you heard about... Uh... Um... Uh... D*MN THIS NONREFILLABLE PRESCRIPTION! :headexplo On an unrelated note, has anyone done anything on a divine-themed warlock? A character with a small number of at-will party buffs and a touch that can turn lethal damage into nonlethal damage could help make up for the warlock's lack of versatility and focus on personal-range abilities.