Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Majick 09-06-07, 09:36 AM	I have been considering making a combat Rogue and came across the Beguiler classm which at lvl 6 can allow you to feint as a free action if you already have Improved Feint. Does anyone think this is far to big a dip for a human TWF Rogue character?
RobbyPants 09-06-07, 09:52 AM	That's a very huge dip. Plus, I have to look at the class, but it might be limited to one feint per round (similar to the Invisible Blade PrC errata). That would suck for a TWF rogue. Realistically, your best bet is to try and flank someone. If you want to be able to sneak attack without flanking, consider a two-level dip into ninja (Complete Adventurer). I don't think it's as strong a class as rogue, but you will have a limited number of times per day (at that point, 1 + Wis mod) that you can become invisible for your entire round (the Ghost Step ability). This invisibility isn't the same as the 2nd level spell, either, so it won't expire after you make an attack. You can do this as a free (or swift, I don't remember) action. Also, there's a level 1 Assassin spell called Distract (or something similar) that you cast as swift action. It makes your foe flat-footed. I don't remember the splatbook (I'm guessing Complete Adventurer), but it may have been reprinted in the Spell Compendium too. You could get access to that with a one-level dip, although you couldn't use it very often.
goawayugh 09-06-07, 09:57 AM	1) The 6th level Beguiler ability lets you feint as a swift action, not free. Meaning you can only do it once per round. 2) You would be MUCH better going with Invisible Blade (CW). Beguiler (my favorite class ever!) is not meant for melee. They can fill in for a rogue in many ways, just not melee, that's why they have spells.
moriarty13 09-06-07, 10:21 AM	Feint is pretty much never a good way to get Sneak Attack damage from what I've found. Invisible Blade PrC does a halfway decent job if you ignore the errata. But it has a ton of prereq feats. Get a friend to cast greater invis on you:).
goawayugh 09-06-07, 10:27 AM	Feint is pretty much never a good way to get Sneak Attack damage from what I've found. Agreed. Invisible Blade PrC does a halfway decent job if you ignore the errata. What?!? The errata is as official as the book itself, it is there to correct mistakes. You can't ignore the errata. Get a friend to cast greater invis on you:). Agreed. Only problem is that is a 4th level spell. You could have your friend summon something and flank (this will work starting from level 1).
moriarty13 09-06-07, 10:38 AM	Agreed. What?!? The errata is as official as the book itself, it is there to correct mistakes. You can't ignore the errata. Agreed. Only problem is that is a 4th level spell. You could have your friend summon something and flank (this will work starting from level 1). Yeah. You can ignore the errata. You can do anything you want. IF you ignore the errata, then Invisible Blade does an ok job with feint. HOWEVER, IF you choose to pay attention to the errata, which you probably should, then it's not so good.
IRememberCecil 09-06-07, 10:47 AM	What?!? The errata is as official as the book itself, it is there to correct mistakes. You can't ignore the errata. You can. Easily. And in some cases it's the general consensus to ignore it (see: Complete Psionic).
Hsien 09-06-07, 10:55 AM	For a combat rogue, that really doesn't do much for you, as others stated. A few levels in Swashbuckler, and the feat name alludes me now...but allows rogue/swash levels to stack to for some abilities. If you're not getting flank often and want to make full attacks instead of feinting, try the Telling Blow feat (PHII). Triggers sneak damage on criticals, but doesn't stack if already getting sneak damage.
Mælstrøm 09-06-07, 12:23 PM	6 levels is not a dip any more by anyone's standards, so you shouldn't see it as a dip for gaining just ONE special ability. If that Feint is all you want, then the others have presented much better opportunities to get your character to do more damage. If you however want to recognize the Beguiler as a possible real multiclassing option, then consider more than just that one swift feint. At 6th level (beguiler), you already have quite a repertoire of spells handy, and you can cast without preparation. The beguiler uses Charisma, so if your Cha score is above average or can be made such, then consider this an addition in progress to your character. Allow him to become a charmer, a beguiler in his own right. And then stab the enemies with a free feint ;) Taking six levels of a class for one special thing is - excuse the candidness - stupid, but choosing to become a beguiler with all his or her powers is a great way to enhance the character (just remember that the BAB progression is poor). Let us know how you decide :) [...] What?!? The errata is as official as the book itself, it is there to correct mistakes. You can't ignore the errata. [...]As has been stated, of course you can. Any good rulebook (and D&D makes no exception) states that if the rules hinder your enjoyment of the game, throw them out the window. In my campaigns, for example, magic-wielders (whether divine or arcane) can cast 0-level spells at will without preparing (we agreed on not using Heal minor wounds 40 times and stuff like that, so this rule is not abused in my campaigns). House Rule ;)
goawayugh 09-06-07, 12:28 PM	Beguiler uses Int, not Cha. One of the many reasons I love them so much. They tend to have more skill points than your average rogue because of this fact.
Mælstrøm 09-06-07, 02:08 PM	Oops, thanks for cathcing that!! Sorry! :)