Post/Author/DateTime	Post
The Meek Barbarian 02-09-06, 01:54 AM	I know there's the Dread Pirate prestige class, but it wasn't something I particularly liked, and I couldn't come up with a any real good builds that fit the concept I wanted for pirate out of the standard base classes. (Didn't want sneak attack like a rogue, swashbuckler was okay but wasn't big on the high Intelligence need, some of the monk abilities worked out, but the class was skewed too far off to fit what I needed, etc). Revision Number: 8 ----------------------- The Pirate From the many port cities and waterways, pirates come searching for their vices: wealth, fame, and fear. They often are considered outsiders from those who don't know life on the sea, but pirates are a fearsome lot to deal with due to their lack of honor and dirty fighting techniques. Much has been said that embellishes the lives of pirates as degenerates and delinquents; almost as much of it is true. Adventures: Adventuring is what pirates do. They sail the seas, raid the shorelines, and control the trade routes. They brave the dangers for hope of wealth and fame (or infamy), dreaming of having their name known far and wide. Characteristics:The pirate combines skill, combat, and scare tactics in as ruthless and dirty way as he possibly can. Most pirates have little in the way of ethics and morals, although there are exceptions. He uses his typical terrain to his benefit, and is not above trying to strike fear into his opponents in order to gain the upper hand before he brings his weapons to bare. Alignment: The pirate is a disrespectful and unorthodox being. He often does not agree with the law, and typically is not known for his good deeds. They tend to be selfish, self-preserving individuals. Religion: Many pirates pay no homage to the gods at all. Of those who do, evil pirates may worship Erythnul (god of slaughter) or Nerull (god of death), whie the rest typically venerate Olidammara (for the wealth they hope he'll lead them to) or Fharlanghn (because of the travel on the seas). Background: Pirates almost always come from two places: sailors from the port cities or as outcasts who leave their original homelands. They usually learn their trade from sailing aboard pirate vessels, although a few learn the trade as a family practice. Pirates of the same ship usually see each other as allies, unless a mutiny is about to occur. Pirates that are not of the same ship tend to follow their whimsy - they may become mates over many mugs of ale, or start a fight for no reason than that one of them wanted to. Races: The most popular race among pirates are humans, although halflings and half-elves are fairly common as well. Dwarves, gnomes and elves are rarely pirates - they have stronger bonds that keep them from the wild life of larceny a pirate leads. Among the savage humanoids (including half-orcs), pirates are not common, but are not unheard of - especially if the race has a coastal city of its own. Other Classes: Pirates lack the help that other classs may offer, but hate the fact of divvying the booty up among another member. Therefore, they are of two minds about other classes as a whole. That being said, pirates tend to get along well with rogues, fighers, and barbarians. They don't trust Paladins or Monks, with their strict codes, and try to avoid or ignore them if possible if they must travel together. Pirates vary among their receptin of clerics and druids, often deciding based upon whom the cleric's deity is or how closely the druid is tied to weather and the seas. Pirates are wary of sorcerers and wizards because they don't understand them and are afraid (even if they don't admit it) of their powers. Role: The pirate is a capable compatant, using terrain and dirty fighting to get the upper hand. If the party does not mind his attitudes, he can often be a surprisingly talented party leader. And depending on his skill selection he can be a scout as well, though not as well as some other classes. Game Rule Information Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special 1 +0 2 2 0 Skill Focus (Sailor), Parley 2 +1 3 3 0 Uncanny Dodge 3 +2 3 3 1 Seamanship 4 +3 4 4 1 Ragged Wound 1/Day 5 +3 4 4 1 Athletics +2, Pillage & Plunder 6 +4 5 5 2 Staredown 7 +5 5 5 2 Speed Climb, Dirty Trick 8 +6 6 6 2 Ragged Wound 2/Day 9 +6 6 6 3 Lucky 1/Day 10 +7 7 7 3 Mass Staredown 11 +8 7 7 3 Steady Stance, Athletics +4 12 +9 8 8 4 Ragged Wound 3/Day 13 +9 8 8 4 Really Dirty Trick 14 +10 9 9 4 Acrobatic Charge 15 +11 9 9 5 Improved Staredown 16 +12 10 10 5 Ragged Wound 4/Day 17 +12 10 10 5 Intimidating Kill 18 +13 11 11 6 Athletics +6 19 +14 11 11 6 Lucky 2/Day 20 +15 12 12 6 Ragged Wound 5/Day Abilities: Dexterity is very important for the pirate to help his agiliity and skill set. Charisma is important for many of the pirate's class abilities. Both Strength and Constitution are helpful for the times when the pirate must enter melee combat. Alignment: any chaotic, any evil, or neutral Hit Die: d8 Class Skills The pirate's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Appraise (INT), Balance (DEX), Bluff (CHA), Climb (STR), Craft (INT), Diplomacy (CHA), Intimidate (CHA), Jump (STR), Knowlege (Geography) (INT), Profession (WIS), Spot (WIS), Swim (STR), Tumble (DEX), Use Rope (DEX) Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) x4 Skill Points/Level: 4+Int Modifier Class Features All of the following are class features for the pirate. Armor Proficiency: Light Armor only. Weapon Proficiency: All simple weapons plus the handaxe, short sword, kukri, rapier, scimitar, saber (FR), and cutlass (FR). Restrictions: Pirates lose most of their class abilities if they carry over a light load or wear medium/heavy armor or use shields. Forthcoming: A pirate's code (...they're more of a guideline...) Skill Focus [Profession (Sailor)] (Ex): Pirates are at home on the waterways, often living long durations without setting foot on dry land. They therefore learn the art of sailing very rapidly, or soon perish. At 1st level, a pirate gains this as a bonus feat. Also, pirates are able to make Profession (Sailor) checks untrained, although most pirates take at least a few ranks in the skill. Furthermore, pirates can use this skill (instead of Survival) to determine the weather (see Stormwrack for more detail). Parley (Ex): Pirates most often speak a dialect with a lot of nautical slang and with words from other languages thrown in. Because of this, they have their own cultural language that exists within the subset of whatever language they actually happen to be speaking in. This grants them a +2 bonus on Diplomacy and Sense Motive checks versus other pirates. However, because those other than pirates are not familiar with this same dialect, Pirates and non-pirates both have a -2 penalty to Diplomacy and Sense Motive with each other. Uncanny Dodge (Ex): At 2nd level, a pirate gains the ability to react to danger before his senses would normally allow him to so. He retains his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) even if he is caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. However, he still loses his Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized or otherwise struck helpless. Pirates lose this ability if they carry more than a light load or wear any armor heavier than light. Seamanship (Ex): A pirate adds ˝ his class levels (round down) as an insight bonus to all Profession (sailor) checks. Non-pirate allies within sight or hearing distance of the pirate and on the same ship gain ˝ this number (round down, min 1) to their Profession (sailor) checks. Pirates lose this bonus if they carry more than a light load or wear any armor heavier than light. Ragged Wound (Ex): It's a fact of life, pirates fight dirty, and the wounds they leave are often as dirty and ragged as they are. This means that many of the wounds they leave wrack the injured victim with continued pain. Starting at 5th level, a pirate can deliver a Ragged Wound via a melee attack. The pirate must announce that he is using this ability before he attacks (although a miss does not use up the attempt). If he hits his target, in addition to doing normal damage, the wound continues to inflict pain upon the victim, making it very difficult to perform many actions. For the remainder of the current round and the next four rounds, the victim must make a Fortitude save with a DC equal to 10 + 1/2 Pirate levels + the Pirates Con bonus (if any). If the target fails this save, he is staggered - they are limited to partial actions for that round, which is either one move action or one standard action only. They must make the Fortitude save again each round. Spellcasters attempting to cast a spell during this time frame must make a Concentration check of 10 + the damage dealt + the level of the spell they're attempting to cast, just as if they were hit during the casting of their spell. The pirate can use one Ragged Wound attack per every four pirate levels he has, thus 1/Day at 4th level, 2/Day at 8th, 3/Day at 12th, 4/Day at 16th, and 5/Day at 20th level. At higher levels, he may use this ability more than once per round, but only once per opponent per 24 hour time period. Ragged Wounds from multiple pirates do not stack. Any opponents who are immune to critical hits cannot be affected by a Ragged Wound. A critical hit increases the save DC by +2. Athletics (Ex): Starting at 5th level, a pirate gains a +2 bonus on Climb, Balance, and Swim checks. This bonus increases to +4 at 11th level, and +6 at 18th level. Pillage & Plunder (Ex): Pirates risk their lives to earn the swag and booty from those unfortunate enough to meet them. Because of this, they tend to haggle very well for their hard-earned treasure. Merchants often end up paying pirates more money than they would other adventurers for the same goods. This allows the pirates to sell items for 1-1/4 times the amount a non-pirate would be able to get from the same merchant. (Thus, even merchants who are unfriendly or otherwise have prices that differ from standard will give pirates more for their items than regular adventurers.) Staredown (Ex): At 6th level, a pirate becomes able to strike fear into his foes by his mere presence. He gains a +4 bonus on Intimidate checks and can demoralize an opponent (as described in the Intimidate skill description). Speed Climb (Ex): A pirate of 7th level or higher can scramble up or down walls and rigging with great speed. He can climb his land speed as a move action with no penalty; however, he must begin and end the round on a horizontal surface (such as the ground or a platform). If he does not end his movement on a horizontal surface, he falls, taking damage as appropriate for his distance above the ground. A pirate needs only one free hand to use this ability. This ability can only be used if a pirate is wearing light armor or no armor and is carrying no more than a light load. Dirty Trick (Ex): By 7th level, a pirate has usually learned a dirty fighting trick. He gets his choice between either Improved Disarm or Improved Feint. He does not have to meet the prerequisites to select his bonus feat. Lucky (Ex): Many pirates live by the credo “Better lucky than good.” Once per day, a pirate of 9th level or higher may reroll any failed attack roll, skill check, ability check, or saving throw. The pirate must take the result of the reroll, even if it’s worse than the original role. At 18th level, the pirate may invoke his powers of luck twice per day. Mass Staredown (Ex): At 10th level, a pirate has sufficient presence that he can cow multiple foes. Using an Intimidate check, the pirate can demoralize all opponents within 30 feet with a single standard action. Steady Stance (Ex): A pirate of 11th level or higher remains on his feet when others have trouble standing. He is not considered flat-footed when balancing or climbing, and he adds ˝ his class levels (round down) as a bonus to Balance or Climb checks to remain balancing or climbing when he takes damage. Really Dirty Trick (Ex): A pirate who has reached 13th level has improved upon his Dirty Trick feature. A pirate who selected Improved Disarm increases his bonus to disarm his opponent from +4 to +6. Furthermore, if he successfully disarms his opponent, he may choose to take a free action to kick the disarmed weapon (or item) anywhere within a 15 foot radius. He cannot kick the weapon more than fight feet high, so walls, railings, other creatures, etc, may block his kick. A pirate who selected Improved Feint gets a +2 bonus to his Bluff skill. If any alies are flanking the pirate's target upon a successful Feint attack (the target must fail the Feint, and then be hit by the Pirate), they may make an immediate Attack of Opportunity upon the target. (This ability does not confer the use of an Attack of Opportunity for the flanking ally - they must be able to make one normally). Acrobatic Charge (Ex): Starting at 14th level, a pirate can charge in situations where others cannot. He can charge over difficult terrain that normally slows movement or through allies blocking his path. This ability enables him to charge across a cluttered ship’s deck, lead down from the rigging, or swing across on booms to get to his target. Depending on the circumstance, he may still need to make appropriate checks (Balance, Climb, Jump, Tumble, Use Rope) to successfully move over the terrain. Improved Staredown (Ex): At 15th level, even a glance from the hard eyes of a pirate is enough to give his foes pause. The pirate can demoralize opponents within 30 feet as a move action, not a standard action. Intimidating Kill (Ex): A pirate of 17th level or higher can finish off his opponents in ways that demoralize his opponents. Whenever he delivers the killing blow (inclduing a coup de grace) to any creature with a Challenge Rating of at least the Pirates total character level - 2, he is allowed to make use of his mass staredown ability as a swift action. This can only be done once per round.
Lord_Canius 02-09-06, 02:01 AM	Not bad pal, its flavorful, and stays true for the most part. I paticularly like the auras a pirate, if for nothing more, their good for a hearty, pirate-like laugh. Its original, but it's a little limited. On the sea's, 'es a force 't be reckon'd with. But when forced to interact with common landlubbers like your average adventurer, yon pirate is just to specialized and focused to really help much. With a little work, and 2 letters a week to WotC, you could get them to make it official in my opinion. Yar.
The Meek Barbarian 02-09-06, 09:39 PM	How do you feel that it's limited? Except for the bonuses to Profession (Sailor) and Parley, I don't think that much of it only applies to life at sea, although I based his abilities and the fluff around them off of that concept. While the fluff indicates the uses that exist on a typical ship (ordering crew about with auras, staring down merchants and the watch, being able-bodied and agile enough to climb and stay up in the rigging/masts, etc), that is by no means their only uses. Also, I intend to write a Pirates Code (they're more sort of a guideline... :D ) that will apply to the class as well. Would anyone else please leave feedback? Thanks.
The Meek Barbarian 02-10-06, 09:06 PM	Can anyone else please help me with the class? Even if you don't want to consider game balance, what do you think of each ability given, any names I've given them, things you like/dislike and why, etc. I'd love lots and lots of feedback. :thinks:
Seerow 02-10-06, 10:01 PM	1) Im not sure I'd trust that point system you linked to as the end all. It definitely seems skewed a lot when Favored Soul and Spirit Shaman are ranked far above and beyond Cleric and Druid. Or Monk scoring that far above average, and even NINJA beating out the Cleric in ranking. If that's what you use for all balance issues... Im sorry but you're lost. Unless of course lower points are SUPPOSED to mean more overpowered, if the average is 270, then by that Clerics and Druids are underpowered when they're two of the strongest in the game... there's something seriously wrong in that picture. Alas, that is for a different topic, but yeah, I don't trust that at all. 2) Despite that, this class seems somewhat underpowered. I mean, I can imagine a pirate ship with a crew of 20 all as level 3 pirates getting a +40 bonus to Profession(Sailor) checks, but this isn't particularly unbalancing, because I can't think of any really good uses for that skill aside from what they're supposed to be doing anyway. The Auras kind of make this class into a wannabe Marshall with better saves... but it has good flavor. I'd suggest more unique abilities, but I can't really think of any.
Lord_Canius 02-10-06, 10:02 PM	I already gave feedback, but if you dont mind, I would like to again. IMHO, this thread shouldve had more posts on it by now. But sadly, it doesnt. Whatev. When I said it was limited, I dont know exactly what I was saying. I really just wanted to be a true critic, not just focus on the positive. I really like this class, but there is something lacking, and I just cant place it just yet. If I figure it out, I'll edit it onto this post. Anyway, hope you have better luck finding people to post on this, it deserves more feedback then it's getting!
Dipteran_Legacy 02-10-06, 10:30 PM	as far as I can tell, what it's missing is a cohesive party role in combat. fighters, barbs, etc can dish out and take a lot of melee damage, wizards, sorc's, etc blast stuff, druids and clerics own everything, and heal the party if they start lookin bad. rogues have sneak attack, and even bards have their songs, proving that even skill-heavy non-combatants can play a important role in battle. the pirate....???? he has good saves, but monks are masters of survival, so he isn't too well-defined in that role. he has no way whatsoever to do anything resembling decent damage, has no buffs worth mentioning(no, granting your cha bonus to fort saves, ref saves, and init is not worth mentioning). as far as I can tell, mechanically, he's a pirate. the mechanics do scream this, perhaps a little too loud. he's also a weak bard/monk hybrid. sorry if this sounds harsh, but I think, as is, I wouldn't have much fun paying the class, especially since all pirates of the same level are going to look almost identical. almost every class has some level of customizability-fighter feats, ranger favored enemies and fighting styles, clerical domains, sorceror's spell's known, etc. not every class, but most. this class has little to no interesting abilities, powerful abilities, or customization. :( . again, awesome fluff and all, and I can tell the whole class was built around your concept of a pirate, but, well....pirates were scary in real life. these guys dont seem scary in any way, except maybe the staredown. you need to give them some sort of combat-oriented mechanic to make them contribute(other than just staring down enemies, as CW samurai can do this, and then cut their enemies to itty-bitty shreds with full BaB and TWF). good luck working on it though, or, if it's good enough for your gaming group, then why bother modifying it?
The Meek Barbarian 02-10-06, 11:35 PM	Hmm, ideas that might work with the pirate to give it more offensive power. Let me state clearly that I do not want to incorporate sneak attack or other precision based damage - I just don't like that idea in a pirate. Personal opinion over popular one, maybe, I dunno. How would you view a rule that decreased / got rid of the penalty for fighting with impromptu weapons? Pirates grabbing whatever odd piece of loot they happened to have around and then using that as a weapon, or something similar. While I like this idea, I'd hate the mechanics of it. You'd have to specify between impromptu weapons, over/undersized weapons, and weapons you just aren't proficient with. Or what about the Wounding Critical or Weakening Critical from the Swashbucker (if you score a critical hit, -2 to Con or Str, respectively). I keep coming back to smite attack, but other than a plain ol' smite (which I don't like flavor-wise), I can't think of any good themes to build this off of. Also, below are a couple of abilities I just made up on the spot. Keep in mind that this is their first draft, and they'll likely be rough. Ragged Wound - It's a fact of life, Pirates fight dirty, and they often employ dirty weapons. Many of the wounds they leave wrack the injured with continued pain. The wounded enemy takes 1/2 Pirate levels (round down, min 1) of damage per round for five rounds, and during these rounds the enemy must make a DC 15 Concentration check to perform any full-round actions. Spellcasters attempting to cast spells must make a Concentration check with DC equal to 15 plus the spell level. This is usuable once per day for every 4 levels of pirate a character has (minimum 1, round down). A DC 15 Heal check or any magical healing will stop the effects of a Ragged Wound prematurely. A Pirate must declare he is using his Ragged Wound ability before an attack, so a missed attack wastes a daily use. This attack may be used more than once per round if the character has a high enough BAB, but only once per opponent. Intimidating Kill - Whenever a pirate delivers the killing blow to any creature with a CR of at least the Pirates total character level - 2, he is allowed to make use of his mass staredown ability as a swift action. This also works with Coup De Grace's, provided the enemy is of a high enough CR. Well, any of this catch your guys' fancy?
spectralphoenix 02-11-06, 04:56 AM	I guess the main issue here is that the class just gets skill and save bonuses, but no real combat abilities beyond intimidation. If I may make some suggestions: Flashy Fighting: The pirate has picked up a variety of combat tricks during his life of crime. Starting at 4th level, the pirate may apply a +1 bonus/four levels to his AC, attacks, saving throws, or damage rolls. He may decide to reassign this bonus at the beginning of his turn, and he may split the bonus between multiple categories. Burn: All non-magical fires set by the pirate, including alchemists fire, deal +1 damage per die +1 per 4 levels. Pillage: Starting at 12th level, the pirate's experience looting his foes begins to pay off. When selling used merchandise, the pirate receives 2/3 of an items base price instead of 1/2. Favored Enemy (Ninja) : To keep it fair, the ninja would have to get favored enemy(pirate)...
The Meek Barbarian 02-11-06, 02:51 PM	I really like Pillage, spectralphoenix. I think I might incorporate that, or something very similar. I think there was a regional feat in a FR book that allowed to character to sell at a higher rate, and once per month(?) buy any one item available at 75% price. Anyone remember that feat, or what book it's in? I'll start looking. Also, the more I look at it, the more I like Ragged Wound, or at least the concept behind it. What do you folks think of its mechanics?
bholdr_mage 02-11-06, 04:13 PM	I really like Pillage, spectralphoenix. I think I might incorporate that, or something very similar. I think there was a regional feat in a FR book that allowed to character to sell at a higher rate, and once per month(?) buy any one item available at 75% price. Anyone remember that feat, or what book it's in? I'll start looking. Also, the more I look at it, the more I like Ragged Wound, or at least the concept behind it. What do you folks think of its mechanics? Pillage sounds cool, as well as Ragged Wound. Other suggestions: To make it more "offensive," you might try to incorporate certain weapon abilities. For example, when a pirate is weilding a cutlass, for every 5 levels he gets to add +1 to damage or something. You should also make them extremely able with the dagger/kukri. Perhaps they could hold one in their mouth, and while making a full-attack if they use two daggers in each hand, they can throw the one from their mouth with a -5 to the attack roll. Maybe they have "deadly aim" and get a +1 bonus to throwing daggers. Quick draw is another awesome ability that a pirate should have. I really like the intimidate ability as well as the auras. Perhaps you could combine the two? Like in combat, if a pirate makes a successful intimidate check, they get a +(enter number here, might be level based) to attacks; or even better--their opponent gets a -1 on AC or something. perhaps the auras need to be catered to different alignments? Like for evil ones, the auras are negative and they hurt opponents, and for good they are poitive and they focus on helping allies like the marshal. Have it a swift action to turn it off or on (not sure if it's that way with the marshall) Another thing I would like to see: NO penalties while fighting aboard a ship. This would be awesome in Eberron. Give the class skill bonuses at different levels, like +2 to swim, intimidate, balance, climb, jump, bluff, gather information, and the like. Hope that's inspiring.
bassist33333 02-11-06, 04:16 PM	Not bad pal, its flavorful, and stays true for the most part. I paticularly like the auras a pirate, if for nothing more, their good for a hearty, pirate-like laugh. Its original, but it's a little limited. On the sea's, 'es a force 't be reckon'd with. But when forced to interact with common landlubbers like your average adventurer, yon pirate is just to specialized and focused to really help much. With a little work, and 2 letters a week to WotC, you could get them to make it official in my opinion. Yar. Well...Technically there already is an official one, called Dread Pirate, but it's a PrC. I think it's a pretty cool class. I like what you've done with it. However, it looks like it may not do too well in a normal adventure (somewhat as Lord Canius was saying). Maybe add a couple more things to it's special abilities that have to do with adventuring skills or something. I'd say keep going on this idea, though.
beat_takeshi 02-11-06, 05:41 PM	When I think pirates I think of big, ugly, scarred thugs who get trashed by the hero. This to me is all very cool. I would imagine the pirate as a fighter mainly. The actual nautical skills could be reserved for the captain. Maybe just no negative modifiers for being at sea. Pirates should be tough but not very skilled. Boosts to con (given a fancy name) would be good. Possibly the pirate could become large at level 10. He should not be able to go toe to toe with the barbarian or fighter, possibley even the monk but he should be able to able to devestate lots of weaker combatants quickly, i.e. pillage- maybe a skill like the dervish's but with a huge drawback (to avoid level dipping), or a skill like advancing blows but allowing changing targets. Maybe he could have a low attack bonus but an improved strength. Particulerly piratey weapons would be scimitar, falchion, massive gurt hook on a chain, whip, short bow, dagger and meat cleaver. Two weapon fighting might be cool. A bonus on the charge. Extra low will and reflex saves. All pirate skills should only be useable in no armour, and the pirate should not have any proficiences except with pirate weapons- hence the con boost. They should be easy to beguile, maybe a negative mod to many skill checks. Your idea was good too though. A more expert take on the pirate in comparison to my hero fodder goon.
Dipteran_Legacy 02-11-06, 07:28 PM	one possible idea, based off of your "ragged wounds" Idea and fondness of the smite mechanic: Viscious strike once per day per four levels, the pirate summons his strength into a crippling physical strike. he adds his highest physical abliity score modifier to the damage. further, the weapon is counted as a "wounding" weapon for this attack ,dealing one point of damage per four pirate levels to the target for a number of rounds equal to the characters pirate level(though this stacks with normal wounding damage) if struck, the victim must make a willpower save(DC 10+1/2 pirate level+highest physical modifier) or suffer a morale penalty to all rolls(damage, hit, saves, skills, etc) for the same number of rounds this allows strength-based pirates to dish out some mean damage, while still making it a point that agility or toughness-based fighters dont get left out(as they are also polular pirate archetypes). it keeps the bleeding damage, while lowering it's obsecnity quite a bit, and while it doesnt hamper mages quite so much, it gives the pirate an edge he'll need if he endes up squaring off against a fighter or barb in one-on-one combat. just a suggestion. also, you might want to give him the ability to get weapon focus at a very low level with a pirate-oriented weapon(rapier, shortsword, scimitar, falchion, and dagger come to mind), or maybe weapon specialization, without focus even required?(to reflect that while they aren't always accurate, they learn how to inflict as much damage as possible with their weapon) good luck with whatever you decide to do :cool:
The Meek Barbarian 02-11-06, 09:25 PM	I edited the first post to include Pillage & Plunder (something close to the mercantile background feat from FR), Intimidating Kill, and a different version of Ragged Wound. I like Ragged Wound's concept - the forced Concentration checks - so I got rid of the extra damage and toned it down a bit too, but kept the major concept. Due to numerous mentions, I also added one-handed martial weapons to his weapon proficiency list. I know saying simple + light & one-handed martial weapons is a bit unusual, but I don't think pirates need to be running around with greatswords and polearms, and don't feel like writing simple + a list of ten weapons. Ideally, they'll have all simple plus handaxe, short sword, kukri, rapier, scimitar, saber (FR), cutlass (FR), and possibly the whip and net. Should i just list these out instead of trying to figure a way to incorporate them by groups? bholdr_mage - I think things like weapon styles and quick draw are feats that a pirate should have, but also think that that's something the character playing the pirate should choose. I like the idea of evil/good auras, and if I can think of anything suitable, I'll probably include that as well. However, I think the pirates already are getting enough skill bonuses (diplomacy with other pirates, intimidate, climb, swim, and balance.
2y1y1z2 02-12-06, 12:48 AM	This is great. I've been looking for a good pirate class for quite some time. If you want a Pirate's code, These were the articles used by Captain John Phillips' ship 'Revenge': Article One Every man shall obey civil command; the captain shall have one full share and a half in all prizes. the Master, Carpenter, Boatswain, and Gunner shall have one share and quarter. Article Two If any man shall offer to run away, or keep any secret from the Company, he shall be marroon'd with one bottle of powder, one bottle of Water, one small Arm, and shot. Article Three If any Man shall steal any Thing in the Company, or game, to the value of a piece of Eight, he shall be Marroon'd or shot. Article Four If at any Time we should meet at another Marrooner (that is, Pyrate) that man shall sign his Articles without Consent of our Company, shall suffer such Punishment as the Captain and Company shall think fit. Article Five That man that shall strike another, whilst these Articles are in force, shall receive Moses's Law (that is 40 Stripes lacking one) on the bare Back. Article Six That Man that shall snap his Arms, or smoak Tobacco in the Hold, without cap to his Pipe, or carry a candle lighted without lanthorn, shall suffer the same Punishment as in the former Article. Article Seven That Man that shall not keep his Arms clean, fit for an Engagement, or neglect his Business, shall be cut off from his Share, and suffer such other Punishment as the Captain and Company shall think fit. Article Eight If any man shall lose a joint in time of Engagement, shall have 400 Pieces of Eight: if a limb, 800. Article Nine If at any time you meet with a prudent Woman, that Man that offers to meddle with her, without her Consent, shall suffer Death. Thanks for this class.
Lord_Canius 02-13-06, 02:42 AM	I figured it out. I figured out what it was missing. Screw aura's, I got yer fix right here, matey. Edge: A Pirate is trained in the arts of the sharp edge, and none can match his mastery of the sword. This skill is so great, that a well trained pirate can do more damage with a single strike of a dagger than a fighter can with a greatsword. At first level, a pirate adds 1 1/2 his STR modifier to attack rolls. At 6th level, a pirate adds twice his STR modifier to attack rolls, and 1 1/2 to damage, even with light and one handed weapons. At 12 level, a pirate can add twice his STR modifier to damage for 1 round per 4 levels of Pirate, usable 1/day. At 18th level, this increases to 2/day. Using this ability causes a pirate to be exhausted, and as such he cannot engage in any but the most mundane activities for 1d4 x 10 minutes. If any of you go to the DnDWiki site, you'll notice that I stole this class ability from the Windblade, which is fine, because I made the Windblade in the first place. But there ya go. Ferget yer silly aura's, ye be acting more like one 'o them fancy paly-dins thar. Edge be what ye be needin', ye scurvy ridden sea-dog.
SiouLubb 02-13-06, 09:17 AM	If you're looking to play up the Pirate vs. Ninja thing, then you need to give Ninjas a corresponding edge against Pirates. You've given the pirate the ability to avoid the ninja's most devastating combat advantage: it's sudden strike ability while invisible or when the opponent is flat footed. So, where's the Ninja's advantage which invalidates the abilities of a pirate?
Loopy 02-13-06, 09:33 AM	Ah! At long last! Something for Ninja PCs to whup on!
Ace the Dead 02-13-06, 01:35 PM	----------------------- The Pirate Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special 1 +0 2 2 0 Skill Focus (Sailor), Sea Legs +1, Parley 2 +1 3 3 0 Belay the Scurvy +1 3 +2 3 3 1 Endurance, Seamanship 4 +3 4 4 1 Uncanny Dodge, Pillage & Plunder 5 +3 4 4 1 Athletics +3, Ragged Wound 1/Day 6 +4 5 5 2 Staredown 7 +5 5 5 2 Speed Climb 8 +6 6 6 2 Sea Legs +2, Lucky 9 +6 6 6 3 Belay the Scurvy +2 10 +7 7 7 3 Mass Staredown, Ragged Wound 2/Day 11 +8 7 7 3 Steady Stance 12 +9 8 8 4 Auras (1) 13 +9 8 8 4 Athletics +6 14 +10 9 9 4 Acrobatic Charge 15 +11 9 9 5 Improved Staredown, Ragged Wound 3/Day 16 +12 10 10 5 Auras (2) 17 +12 10 10 5 Intimidating Kill 18 +13 11 11 6 Sea Legs +3 19 +14 11 11 6 Belay the Scurvy +3 20 +15 12 12 6 Auras (3), Ragged Wound 4/Day Hit Die Size: d8 Class Skills: Appraise, Balance, Bluff, Climb, Craft, Diplomacy, Intimidate, Jump, Profession, Spot, Survival*, Swim, Tumble, Use Rope * only as it applies to nautical survival – weather, tides, currents, direction, star-reading, etc I don't think it's a mechanically a good idea to limit a skill this way. There's a feat in Stromwrack called Old Salt that allows you to use profession (sailor) to predict the weather as though it were survival; and using the rules printed there, steering a ship (getting to the destination you want) is knowledge(geography) not survival anyway. I'd take away survival & give them Knowledge(geography) as a class skill, although pirate thugs probably wouldn't have many ranks. Skill Points/Level: 4+INT Armor Proficiency: Light Weapon Proficiency: All simple weapons and light and one-handed martial weapons Restrictions: lose class abilities if over light load, wear medium or heavy armor, or any shield You should indicate this in the ability descriptions below, or at least list exactly what you mean by "class abilities" Alignment: any chaotic, any evil, or neutral Skill Focus [Profession (Sailor)]: Pirates are at home on the waterways, often living long durations without setting foot on dry land. They therefore learn the art of sailing very rapidly, or soon perish. At 1st level, a pirate gains this as a bonus feat. I like both these abilities, but I would either say a pirate can make profession (sailor) checks untrained, or include text that says a pirate cannot do that. Sea Legs: At first level, a pirate gains a +1 competence bonus to reflex saves. This bonus increases to +2 at 8th level and +3 at 18th level. A pirate looses this bonus when wearing medium or heavy armor or when carrying a medium or heavy load. How does having sea legs help you on land? I'd include "while on a moving deck," I mean they already have a good reflex save anyway. Parley: [snip] Beautiful, simply beautiful. Belay the Scurvy: At 2nd level, a pirate gains a +1 competence bonus to fortitude saves. This increases to +2 at 9th level, and again to +3 at 19th level. A pirate looses this bonus when wearing medium or heavy armor or when carrying a medium or heavy load. Why do they get this ability on all fortitude saves on top of a good fortitude save? Should they be more resistant to flesh to stone than a (non-raging) barbarian or fighter of equal lvl and con? I'd probably limit it to fortitude saves against deseases and poisons. Seamanship: A pirate adds ˝ his class levels (round down) as an insight bonus to all Profession (sailor) checks. Non-pirate allies within sight or hearing distance of the pirate and on the same ship gain ˝ this number (round down, min 1) to their Profession (sailor) checks. after giving them skill focus this seems redundant until you realise that with this ability they don't need to waste so many skill points in profession (sailor) to get a good modifier. Kudos. Uncanny Dodge:... Very pirate. Pillage & Plunder - Pirates risk their lives to earn the swag and booty from those unfortunate enough to meet them. Because of this, and also because of their reputation as a whole, merchants often offer pirates more money than they would other adventurers. This allows the pirates to sell items for 1-1/2 times the amount a non-pirate would be able to get from the same merchant. (Thus, even merchants who are unfriendly will give pirates more for their items than regular adventurers.) At lvl 4? Do you realise how much beyond the wealth by level guidlines this makes parties with at least 1 pirate who takes 4 lvls by the time they reach lvl 10? Also, how is a pirate with that low a level (probably not more than a first mate at best) going to have such a fearsome reputation? I'd save this ability for a higher level, if I gave it to them at all. Athletics: Starting at 5th level, a pirate gains a +3 bonus on Climb, Balance, and Swim checks. This bonus increases to +6 at 13th level. Ragged Wound - It's a fact of life, pirates fight dirty, and the wounds they leave are often as dirty and ragged as they are. This means that many of the wounds they leave wrack the injured victim with continued pain. Starting at 5th level, a pirate can deliver a Ragged Wound via a melee attack. The pirate must announce that he is using this ability before he attacks (although a miss does not use up the attempt). If he hits his target, in addition to doing normal damage, the wound continues to inflict pain upon the victim, making it very difficult to perform strenuous actions. For the next five rounds, the victim must a Concentration check equal to 5 + the damage dealt by the pirate's Ragged Wound. If they fail this check, they are limited to partial actions for that round - either one move action or one standard action only. They may make the Concentration check again each round. Spellcasters must make a Concentration check of 10 + the damage dealt to cast a spell, just as if they were hit while casting a spell. The pirate can use one Ragged Wound attack per every five pirate levels he has, thus 1/Day at 5th level, 2/Day at 10th, 3/Day at 15th, and 4/Day at 20th. At higher levels, he may use this ability more than once per round, but only once per opponent per 24 hour time period. Ragged Wounds from multiple pirates do not stack. Wicked. It should allow a save of some sort though (I'd say fort, but if you want to make ninja's more resistant you could make it reflex). DC should probably be something like 10 + bab + cha mod Staredown: ... Speed Climb: ... Lucky: ... Mass Staredown: ... All very good pirate abilities. Steady Stance: A pirate of 11th level or higher remains on his feet when others have trouble standing. He is not considered flat-footed when balancing or climbing, and he adds ˝ his class levels (round down) as a bonus to Balance or Climb checks to remain balancing or climbing when he takes damage. Auras: The pirate exerts effect on allies in his vicinity. He can learn to produce different effects, or auras, over the course of his career. The marshal may project one aura at any time. He learns one aura to project at 12th level, a second aura at 16th level, and a third aura at 19th level. Projecting an aura is a swift action. Each aura grants a circumstance bonus equal to the pirate’s Charisma bonus (min 1). The aura remains in effect until the pirate uses a free action to dismiss the aura or activates another one. A pirate can have an aura active continually; thus, an aura can be in effect at the start of a combat encounter even before the pirate takes his first turn. Activating an aura involves haranguing, ordering, directing, encouraging, cajoling, or calming allies. A pirate sizes up the enemies, allies, and the terrain, and then gives allies the direction that they can use to do their best. Unless otherwise noted, a pirate’s aura affects all allies within 60 feet (including himself) who can hear the pirate. An ally must have an intelligence score of 3 or higher and be able to understand the pirate’s language to gain the bonus. A pirate’s aura is dismissed if he is dazed, unconscious, stunned, paralyzed, or otherwise unable to be heard or understood by his allies. The list of auras a pirate can choose from are below. Auras: Buck Up: Bonus on Fortitude saves and Constitution Checks Act Lively: Bonus on Dexterity checks, Dexterity-based skill checks, and initiative checks. Drink Hearty: Bonus on Charisma checks, Charisma-based skill checks Heave To: Bonus on Strength checks, Strength-based skill checks. On Lookout: Bonus on Reflex Saves. I don't see most pirates to be the sort to direct others in combat. Captains yes, and perhaps these abilities only come at a high enough level that only captains will have them, but that's what I would call a particularly strong argument. Perhaps you could give them some sort of taunt ability that was similar to Hexblade's curse instead? Nice work overall.
The Meek Barbarian 02-13-06, 08:16 PM	SiouLubb - Despite the joke at the top about Pirates and Ninjas fighting, it was meant mostly as a joke. I don't necessarily intend for the two classes to be archrivals, although I don't necessarily see them getting along very well. In no way is the Pirate designed to take on the ninja - he may have abilities that work towards that goal, but I've designed this from the ground up with a singular concept in mind, modified as I go along. (Besides - a good pirate should be able to beat the snot out of a ninja any day, even drunk. Pirates rock that way. :D ) Lord_Canius - Thanks for the idea, but I think I'll stick away. My idea of a pirate isn't some flashy, well trained fighter type, but rather one who uses a dirty style of fighting (without sneak attack, mind you!) combined with luck and use of the battlefied to beat his opponents. Something like what you wrote would seem to me to require weapon focus and weapon specializiations with the sword (to be trained that well), and that's not a route I personally see the pirate taking. Loopy - you're just loopy! :tongue: No ninja could ever hope to "whup up" on the pirate! They're just too, well, um, YAR! Ace the Dead - lots of good points. The pirate is actually supposed to have knowledge (geography). That was something I was missing. Thanks for catching it. I don't have Stormwrack, so thanks for that tip. I'll likely update it that way. I'll make a point of telling what skills and abilities are affected by heavy loads & armor. I agree that pirates should be able to make Profession (sailor) checks untrained. Most anyone can do what the mate's telling you, as long as the mate's there to tell you what to do. Better sailors (those with ranks) can do more, and do it on their own. Do you think I should get rid of Seal Legs and Belay the Scurvy? That's a pretty hefty loss to the class. What do you think I should replace them with? As to Pillage & Plunder. There's a regional feat in FR that you take as a 1st level character - it gives you an extra 300 starting gold, you can sell items at 75% price (no matter what price the DM sets for other characters!), AND once a month you can BUY any item available for 75% price. That and a suggestion from another poster was what I based my idea off of. I made it 1-1/2 times the price so it actually reflects any price changes the DM makes (while still being typically 75%), but ditched the other two parts. Knowing that, do you still think it's too powerful an ability? Or should I just make it so it's earned at a higher level? (I made it 4 just to prevent most people from level dipping and getting that one ability - few people that I personally game with will go more than 3 levels in a class for one ability) I don't want a Fortitude save on Ragged Wound. The way it works, it only happens on a successful hit. So the damage is already done. All the vicitim is trying to do is Concentrate to ignore the pain - which is very similar to other Concentration checks. However, I'm considering making it the DC more like the Assassin's death attack. The DC = 10 + 1/2 Pirate Levels + Ability Mod. One of my gaming friends said it should be CON since it's an extraordinary ability, but I thought most abilities like this used Cha. I'm leaning towards doing this (the check will be steady, unlike the potential abusement by damage dealt with crits and magical enhancement damage). I like the auras, and they're few enough and come late enough that I think they go with the class pretty well. However, I'm up to suggestions, if more people think they don't truly belong. I'll try to modify the class shortly to update some things.
Loopy 02-13-06, 10:32 PM	NEED I remind you? They are currently hatching plans to DESTROY that little, byotch Chuck Norris, too! http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/rup/ambush3a.jpg
The Meek Barbarian 02-13-06, 10:44 PM	That's just too funny, and I'll have to concede just for that pic: :bow: :bow: :bow:
belthazzar1113 02-13-06, 10:49 PM	k lets jump right in.... ragged wound is a pretty unique ability, and should be moved to level 1. Honestly this class has some poor design to it. There is nothing in the first 4 levels that makes the class worth anything. Think about all the other base classes. they all get something nifty and special at first level. sneak attack, eldritch blast, rage, BA+feat, BA+rage, BA+track, animal companion, spells, ect ect.... look at all the base classes and see that they all get something unique at first level... and what does a pirate get... skill focus sailor? umm... ok thematically that might be ok, but its pretty worthless. soo i would say mod ragged strike to be a attack action that you can use once per encounter, lasts your str mod in rounds +1/ three levels. and they make a concentration check as you said, 5+damage to avoide being staggered for those rounds... thats a pretty unique ability and would be a great start to a class. I like that pirates get staredown, and i think that can be kept in but i would fiddle with the levels a bit. the whole skill bonus to profession salior I just don't really see being useful... i mean yes its nice and all, but what on earth do you do with it? I think the dread pirate really covers pirates well, and if you want to make a base pirate class you need to differentiate this base class from that PrC. so mabey give these pirates something like intimidating manner, or something like that. THe saving throw bonus souns nice because of the names but it doesn't have alot of sense mechanically. I think pirates are going to be worked more like roguish thugs of the sea rather than skilled saliors that never get sick. the auras are really wonky, seems like you just grabbed some skills out of the marshal to stick in the class. it really does feel out of place. but thats just me. Pirate base class shouldn't be leading a boat, they should be the rank and file swabby scrubbing the decks. its the dread pirates that are going ot be the captians. I really do like the haggard strike, and i do like the stare down. one thing that is totally and completely broken is loot and pillage... that really does screw the economy of treasure up... i mean +50% resale value??? thats pretty hefty for most groups. Especially since most people would just let the pirate go in and "negotiate" the sale to get the increased profit. This seems way powerful for just a random granted ability... mabey instead you give them something like treasure sense, and treasure finding. mabey some skill bonus to appraise and the ability to detect magical enchantments on items (this is cursed....) I would even be willing to let something like pirate lore exist since so many pirates seem to know all those old sea stories and ledgends. another ability you might consider is favored terrain ship. its like rangers favored enemy but the bonuses apply while in that particular area. Then you would have pirates that are great on the decks, but not so great on the land. anyway, thats comeing off the top of my head. I like the idea of a pirate base class, especially for certain games. but Right now the class lacks direction and distinction. I think if you moved up haggard strike to level one and gave it scaleability, and then really pick a direction to go you would have a solid class.
The Meek Barbarian 02-14-06, 12:28 AM	It's not haggard strike. You repeated that same name several times, but I don't see how you could confuse Ragged Wound (a name that implies a nasty wound that'll pain you forever) with Haggard Strike (a name that implies a drunken sleepy sailor swinging his fists with his eyes closed). :D First you say there's nothing in the first four levels worth anything, and then say Pillage & Plunder is way too much, despite the fact that it's a weaker version of a feat you can take at 1st level. Which I've repeated twice now, and no one seems to care to comment on. You say I need to differentiate between this class and the Dread Pirate prestige class. I don't see that they have much of anything in common. They both have seamanship (that's where I got the ability from), and then the luck and intimidation factor. And you say to differentiate between my class and the DP by giving them the intimidating manor, but that would actually make them more like the DP - they're Fearsome reputation. And, believe it or not, many of the abilities that my pirate has that are similar to the DP were taken from other classes - i didn't even realize that the DP had acrobatic charge or mass-staredown affect until I rechecked it now. Acttually, the whole point of my making this class was to create my concept of a pirate. In many that I have read with naval adventurers, pirate's are not only the scum, but also the captains. See Treasure Island, or Pirates of the Carribean, or read many of the books that are similar - pirates can be high level or low-level, and that's how I designed this class. And I didn't want them to have to prestige class out in order to do so. No, I didn't just "grab some skills out of the marshal". I intended the auras to be in there, and to be relatively where they are at as far as the levels they are earned. This is to reflect that the pirate is becoming a second mate, first mate, and then captain. How does the class lack direction and distinction? Is there anything in here that my concept of pirate (as I've defined to you) would not have? Is there any other class that is like this? There are similarities between this class and the DP, but they are just that - similarities. Mine doesn't have sneak attack, the honorable/dread choice, rally the crew, skill mastery, etc. The DP doesn't have any bonuses to saves (which I may kill off), the staredown as I have it, the Ragged Wound, etc. Saying that they are too close to each other is like saying there's very little distinction between the Ninja and the Rogue because they are both stealthy precision based damgage dealers. They can be similar while remaining unique.
The Meek Barbarian 02-16-06, 01:42 AM	Well, at least a few people have mentioned that the extras to the Fort & Ref save may be too much (Sea Legs and Belay the Scurvy), and while I had edited them to make them scenario specific, I'm not sure I like that. I think I'd rather just replace them. I'll have to move some abilities around if I do this so that all abilities are at least somewhat balanced throughout the class in placement, but that's if I decide to do this. I went ahead and changed the Ragged Wound to a Fort save with DC = 10 + 1/2 pirate's level + Con modifier. I was wrong about the Concentration check - for some reason, I had added Autohypnosis's (from EPH) uses to Concentration in my mind. Duh me. :eek: Also, I changed the comparison from the Slow spell to the staggered effect; although they're mechanically similar, the comparison is better flavor-wise towards staggered. Currently, I'm considering giving a bonus feat or feats - they'll grant the player a choice between a very small selection. I'm currently considering Improved Disarm, Improved Feint, and Karmic Strike (CW). Also, I'm thinking of a a Taunting ability. Something similar to the Goad feat (MH). Something along the lines of you take a standard action to Taunt an enemy within 30'. The target has to be able to see and hear you. If they fail a will save, they will ignore other opponents until / unless those opponents attack them. I'm still thinking about the idea's concept, so I don't have any full details worked out yet. I'd like to figure out how to tie in the use of either Bluff or Intimidate into this, but I'm not sure that the mechanics would be very well set up. How well do you think these ideas would mesh into it? I'm trying to avoid making the class too offensive, considering the number of movement and skill bonuses/abilities he's getting.
The Meek Barbarian 02-17-06, 02:27 AM	:bump:
serch 02-17-06, 07:18 AM	I think that this is a great class in terms of flavour, but to make it more playable I would add something about combat, perhaps an ability called something like "dirty fighting" very similar to improve+feint +bluff+snak attack. As a full-round action pirate can make only one attack, preceeded by a bluff check against sense motive + BAB of the target. If succesfull target is denied his dex bonus during the attack and take an extra XD6. Give the pirate a bonus in damage an in the bluff check as he levels but not more than 5d6 and a +6 to bluff. :rolleyes: (you know, typical pirate tricks: throwing something with a kick at the opponent face, biting his/her ear, reflecting sunlight in his/her eyes with pirates sword...) :P
The Meek Barbarian 02-17-06, 08:14 PM	Okay, I updated the class again. I removed the Auras as well as Sea Legs and Belay the Scurvy (the two saving throw bonus features). In return, I granted the pirate an extra use of Ragged Wound, and an extra use of Lucky. I changed the Athletics back to their normal routine - +2, then +4, then +6 over three different levels, as opposed to how I had it at +3 then +6 at two different levels. I modified the wording for Pillage & Plunder, and reduced its benefits down to 1-1/4 profit. I personally still disagree with this (as the feat you can take is way more powerful) but I'll concur with a majority opinion when needed. I also added two new features - Dirty Trick and Really Dirty Trick. I don't like the name for the second one, but couldn't think of anything better while I was writing it up. Dirty trick is basically a bonus feat the player chooses between Improved Disarm and Improved Feint. Really Dirty trick adds onto their original choice. For Improved Disarmers, you get an extra +2 to disarm (to a total of +6) and the ability to kick your targets weapon away if succsesful. For Improved Feinters, you get a +2 on Bluff (which is the equivalent of a +2 to Feint, but more useful) and the ability to give a flanking ally an Attack of Opportunity. I'm unsure about Really Dirty trick. At first thought, I think Feint is more powerful (if you're set up right, an ally gets a free attack after you hit your opponent), but I keep thinking that if I played a pirate this high, I'd definately go with Improved Disarm to kick the targets weapon away. Finally, I had to adjust the levels at which abilities were granted, to try to smooth out the progression while hopefully keeping it somewhat balanced in power.
The Meek Barbarian 02-19-06, 11:29 PM	no comments on the updated build? As many people piped in and said that the original ideas were a bit off, I'd have thought they'd come back to see the changes. Anyways... :bump: