A charger build that DMs will accept? [Archive] - Wizards Community

A charger build that DMs will accept? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
FrostHammer
09-22-07, 03:23 PM I've skimmed over the Uberer charger build in the Char op forums, and ther eare way too many splat books that we don't have, not to mention the DM just flat out won't allow that kind of damage. Can anyone suggest a more reasonable build using only the Complete series of books and the PHB and possibly PHB2? I have my first 6 levels planned out already as Ranger1/Barbarian1/Fighter4 and I'll have

Weapon Focus (Falchion), Power Attack, Improved Bull Rush, Power Critical, Shock trooper and Leap attack for the feats. There's still one feat slot open for the first 6 levels. I'll also take the Lion Totem' substitution ability to gain pounce and lose fast movement.

What feats and what classes should I go from there with the books I've got?
Treantmonklvl20
09-22-07, 05:34 PM How about Bear warrior? The pounce will work with the additonal attacks nicely. The two primary attacks meshes nicely with Heedless charge/Leap attack.

It's good for 5 levels - then break.

You could also mix in some Warshaper - it will increase your Str and Con by 4 and give your attacks reach, and fast healing as well.

Most importantly, you get an additional attack. So if you pick up multiattack - you can attack 4 times on a charge - 2 at full BAB (+2 for charge), and 2 dead even to charge (-2 for secondary, +2 for charge). All will get double the power attack with the Leap. That's a heap of damage.

My last Bear Warrior/Warshaper I took a single level of the Druid Shapeshifter variant in PHB II which gave the warshaper bonuses while you remained in predator shape.

Extra Rage is an important feat if you go bear warrior though - maybe even take it twice. You also wouldn't want to keep the Weapon Focus feat, as it will be of no use to you in bear form.

Take 5 levels of Bear warrior and 4 of warshaper to maximize the mechanics.
FrostHammer
09-22-07, 05:44 PM Mechanically, it seems very fun, but it doesn'tmesh with my character, who wouldn't want to shape shift. In her own words on why she loves adventuring, she answers, "I...like...to...HIT things...with my Falchion."
Kratch
09-22-07, 06:26 PM Potential feats to take include weapon spec and melee weapon mastery (PHBII), since you already plan on fighter 4. Extra rage is really good choice too. If your going dex, combat reflex's and robilars gambit (PHBII) or kharmic strike (not sure which book off hand) can punish those who take advantage of your lowered AC from shock trooper. Or elusive target (again, not sure what book off hand) can help negate a nasty power attack following that reduced AC charge. Again, not sure what book (sorry, not at home to look at my library), but there is a feat that allows a direction change on a charge. Additionally, complete scoundral has some skill tricks to help with terrain complications on charging.

As for class's, I'm really not sure off hand. There are plenty of feats to take, so as much as people look down on fighter, it is an option that can add a fair bit to this kind of character. No PrC's other then frenzied berserker come to mind, off hand. you said you don't have ToB, so the adepts are out.
Treantmonklvl20
09-22-07, 06:32 PM The Drunken Master's charge lets you change direction whenever you want.
FrostHammer
09-22-07, 09:50 PM Since I will have a good jump modifier, can't I just jump over obstacles? I can make multiiple jumps during a charge right? It's the whole idea of Leap Attack, being able to jump.
Kratch
09-22-07, 09:59 PM Since I will have a good jump modifier, can't I just jump over obstacles? I can make multiiple jumps during a charge right? It's the whole idea of Leap Attack, being able to jump.

Can't charge if your movement is reduced, such as moving over uneven or slippery terrain, uphill, etc. the skill trick helps with this. technically, you can do a jumping charge, i suppose, but you would need to jump the entire distance traveled, to a minimum 10ft, as a standing still long jump (increased DC), as any normal movement over the problem terrain will prevent the charge altogether.
runestar
09-22-07, 10:18 PM The streetfighter (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a) barb variant grants bonus to charge, though you must be willing to go pure barb to get the better bonuses.
FrostHammer
09-23-07, 01:08 AM Can't charge if your movement is reduced, such as moving over uneven or slippery terrain, uphill, etc. the skill trick helps with this. technically, you can do a jumping charge, i suppose, but you would need to jump the entire distance traveled, to a minimum 10ft, as a standing still long jump (increased DC), as any normal movement over the problem terrain will prevent the charge altogether.

Leap of the Heavens?
Meyer_William
09-23-07, 08:14 AM In magic item compendium, there are multiple boots/sandles that eliminated movement penalties for terrain.

Definitely take the skill tricks as well ...

Cityscape enhancement for pure barbarians is rather good ... one of them lets you increase your crit multiplier in a way that stacks with keen.

Improved crit (or keen if you don't plan on using bless weapon) is stellar with the high damage output you should be doing.

Shock trooper (complete warrior) to eliminate the to-hit penalty from power attacking.

Ellusive target (complete warrior) to eliminate the return power attack attacks from things that survive ...

However, this sort of build is cross-purpose as it takes too many feats for a plain barbarian ... and the cityscape enhancement requires barbarian levels ...
Cold Napalm
09-23-07, 12:29 PM Since your not going with the whole lance uber charging, maybe change your weapon of choice to bastard sword and take a level of exotic weapon master? If you can change alignment, the switch to lawful and take kensai. Pounce + ki up + 2x str to attack + valourous weapon + power attack can get pretty mean. Let see at level 9 that should be +10 (20 str)+8 (ki up) + 18 (power attack it all away)...all times two for 2d10+72 damage per hit. Not too shabby. If you can get boots of speed thats 6d10+216 damage a round potentially.
FrostHammer
09-23-07, 01:03 PM I am already taking Shock Trooper. I don't have citiscape or the book that has Skill Tricks, so no go there. But yeah, dipping 4 levels into a fighter is a definite must.

I am not really allowed to change alignment in this way. Otherwise I really would've loved Kensai. but eh, rping wise my character loves the wild and her freedom too much.
Cold Napalm
09-23-07, 01:25 PM Well fine, no kensai, but that only lowers the damage by 48...so thats a good chunk of damage still...but you still have to switch falchion for bastard sword.
Khadmus
09-23-07, 01:46 PM Well fine, no kensai, but that only lowers the damage by 48...so thats a good chunk of damage still...but you still have to switch falchion for bastard sword.

Why not great scimitar?
Cold Napalm
09-23-07, 02:08 PM Why not great scimitar?

I don't have sandstorm with me...is it that a bastard scimitar? If so then it'll be fine...if not, then it has to be a two handed martial weapon that can be used one handed as an exotic (so dwraven waraxe, bastard sword, maul, warmace...etc).
StruckingFuggle
09-23-07, 02:17 PM I am already taking Shock Trooper. I don't have citiscape or the book that has Skill Tricks, so no go there. But yeah, dipping 4 levels into a fighter is a definite must.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a

The Cityscape Alternate Class Features were put up on the web.
Khadmus
09-23-07, 03:29 PM I don't have sandstorm with me...is it that a bastard scimitar? If so then it'll be fine...if not, then it has to be a two handed martial weapon that can be used one handed as an exotic (so dwraven waraxe, bastard sword, maul, warmace...etc).

Oui. 1d8/18-20 exotic 1.5hander
FrostHammer
09-23-07, 03:42 PM Why is exotic weapon master so good?
Khadmus
09-23-07, 08:08 PM Why is exotic weapon master so good?

Dunno. [This is a bump/seconding of the question]
Shedeo
09-24-07, 11:09 PM Why is exotic weapon master so good?

Take one level, and you can get x2 strength bonus on a two-handed exotic weapon. Really nice for the fullblade wielder in all of us, but not really amazing for you currently.
FrostHammer
09-25-07, 01:21 AM What makes the Fullblade different?
Khadmus
09-25-07, 04:15 PM Not sure, since I didn't read the suggestion too carefully. Fullblade is 2d8/19-20 2h. I prefer Great Falchion (2d4->1d12) or Jovar (falchion's 2d4->2d6)
Fwib
11-26-07, 12:10 PM Why is exotic weapon master so good?As previously mentioned, you can get the ability to have x2 STR bonus do damage with your 1h exotic weapon wielded 2h.

But in the very next sentence it says that you get to treat the weapon as wielded 2h for power-attack - which is rather nice for double/multi-wielding, full-attack-charging shock troopers.
dawnbringer
11-26-07, 12:20 PM Be a warforged with the adamantine body feat, and then take the warforged prestige class. Its in eberron campaign setting book, and its a PrC that focuses on charging, but you have to be a warforged.
Pechvarry
11-26-07, 12:29 PM If you plan to encounter your single favored enemy often... Favored Power Attack is nice for a higher PA increment... I believe it's in Complete Warrior or Adventurer.
PhaedrusXY
11-26-07, 12:51 PM Take one level, and you can get x2 strength bonus on a two-handed exotic weapon. Really nice for the fullblade wielder in all of us, but not really amazing for you currently.You can't use that class feature with a fullblade. As already stated in the thread, it has to be a weapon like the bastard sword.
RobbyPants
11-26-07, 01:06 PM You can't use that class feature with a fullblade. As already stated in the thread, it has to be a weapon like the bastard sword.
Correct.

Although, if the stats posted by Khadmus are correct for the great scimitar, it would be a good way to get a good crit threat range and have a one-handed exotic weapon. If you have a good Str mod (+4 or better), this is certainly a good way to go.
AtsuiShoto
11-26-07, 01:17 PM Isn't a fullblade just a Large-sized bastard sword? A creature capable of wielding Large weapons would treat it as a bastard sword. A human with Monkey Grip and EWP: Bastard Sword, for instance, could then wield a fullblade two-handed or one-handed at his leisure. In either instance he would suffer a -2 penalty to his attacks with the fullblade, in the former case because he is wielding a weapon 1 size larger than he is normally able to (going from one-handed Large to two-handed Medium incurs this penalty), and in the latter case because Monkey Grip applies a -2 penalty.

The way this all would mesh with the Exotic Weapon Master class ability is as follows: Two Weapon Fighting with 1 fullblade (treated as two-handed for Power Attack) at a -2 attack penalty on top of any TWF penalties, and one light or one-handed weapon (treated as normal for Power Attack) with no extra penalties; or else two-handed use of just a fullblade with a -2 attack penalty, adding x2 STR modifier to damage.

Mechanically optimal? No. But the Exotic Weapon Master ability does help to improve the otherwise dismal Monkey Grip feat when used with a fullblade. Also, some people think wielding a Large-sized weapon looks cool, and there's the off-chance that you'll pick up a really nifty one during a campaign that you wouldn't be able to wield otherwise.
Fwib
11-27-07, 10:30 AM More stuff that a GM might accept: Dragonborn.
Winged-aspect dragonborn get an extra charge-damage multiplier on a diving charge. Being an orc dragonborn will get you both that and the Headlong Rush multiplier.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
FrostHammer 09-22-07, 03:23 PM	I've skimmed over the Uberer charger build in the Char op forums, and ther eare way too many splat books that we don't have, not to mention the DM just flat out won't allow that kind of damage. Can anyone suggest a more reasonable build using only the Complete series of books and the PHB and possibly PHB2? I have my first 6 levels planned out already as Ranger1/Barbarian1/Fighter4 and I'll have Weapon Focus (Falchion), Power Attack, Improved Bull Rush, Power Critical, Shock trooper and Leap attack for the feats. There's still one feat slot open for the first 6 levels. I'll also take the Lion Totem' substitution ability to gain pounce and lose fast movement. What feats and what classes should I go from there with the books I've got?
Treantmonklvl20 09-22-07, 05:34 PM	How about Bear warrior? The pounce will work with the additonal attacks nicely. The two primary attacks meshes nicely with Heedless charge/Leap attack. It's good for 5 levels - then break. You could also mix in some Warshaper - it will increase your Str and Con by 4 and give your attacks reach, and fast healing as well. Most importantly, you get an additional attack. So if you pick up multiattack - you can attack 4 times on a charge - 2 at full BAB (+2 for charge), and 2 dead even to charge (-2 for secondary, +2 for charge). All will get double the power attack with the Leap. That's a heap of damage. My last Bear Warrior/Warshaper I took a single level of the Druid Shapeshifter variant in PHB II which gave the warshaper bonuses while you remained in predator shape. Extra Rage is an important feat if you go bear warrior though - maybe even take it twice. You also wouldn't want to keep the Weapon Focus feat, as it will be of no use to you in bear form. Take 5 levels of Bear warrior and 4 of warshaper to maximize the mechanics.
FrostHammer 09-22-07, 05:44 PM	Mechanically, it seems very fun, but it doesn'tmesh with my character, who wouldn't want to shape shift. In her own words on why she loves adventuring, she answers, "I...like...to...HIT things...with my Falchion."
Kratch 09-22-07, 06:26 PM	Potential feats to take include weapon spec and melee weapon mastery (PHBII), since you already plan on fighter 4. Extra rage is really good choice too. If your going dex, combat reflex's and robilars gambit (PHBII) or kharmic strike (not sure which book off hand) can punish those who take advantage of your lowered AC from shock trooper. Or elusive target (again, not sure what book off hand) can help negate a nasty power attack following that reduced AC charge. Again, not sure what book (sorry, not at home to look at my library), but there is a feat that allows a direction change on a charge. Additionally, complete scoundral has some skill tricks to help with terrain complications on charging. As for class's, I'm really not sure off hand. There are plenty of feats to take, so as much as people look down on fighter, it is an option that can add a fair bit to this kind of character. No PrC's other then frenzied berserker come to mind, off hand. you said you don't have ToB, so the adepts are out.
Treantmonklvl20 09-22-07, 06:32 PM	The Drunken Master's charge lets you change direction whenever you want.
FrostHammer 09-22-07, 09:50 PM	Since I will have a good jump modifier, can't I just jump over obstacles? I can make multiiple jumps during a charge right? It's the whole idea of Leap Attack, being able to jump.
Kratch 09-22-07, 09:59 PM	Since I will have a good jump modifier, can't I just jump over obstacles? I can make multiiple jumps during a charge right? It's the whole idea of Leap Attack, being able to jump. Can't charge if your movement is reduced, such as moving over uneven or slippery terrain, uphill, etc. the skill trick helps with this. technically, you can do a jumping charge, i suppose, but you would need to jump the entire distance traveled, to a minimum 10ft, as a standing still long jump (increased DC), as any normal movement over the problem terrain will prevent the charge altogether.
runestar 09-22-07, 10:18 PM	The streetfighter (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a) barb variant grants bonus to charge, though you must be willing to go pure barb to get the better bonuses.
FrostHammer 09-23-07, 01:08 AM	Can't charge if your movement is reduced, such as moving over uneven or slippery terrain, uphill, etc. the skill trick helps with this. technically, you can do a jumping charge, i suppose, but you would need to jump the entire distance traveled, to a minimum 10ft, as a standing still long jump (increased DC), as any normal movement over the problem terrain will prevent the charge altogether. Leap of the Heavens?
Meyer_William 09-23-07, 08:14 AM	In magic item compendium, there are multiple boots/sandles that eliminated movement penalties for terrain. Definitely take the skill tricks as well ... Cityscape enhancement for pure barbarians is rather good ... one of them lets you increase your crit multiplier in a way that stacks with keen. Improved crit (or keen if you don't plan on using bless weapon) is stellar with the high damage output you should be doing. Shock trooper (complete warrior) to eliminate the to-hit penalty from power attacking. Ellusive target (complete warrior) to eliminate the return power attack attacks from things that survive ... However, this sort of build is cross-purpose as it takes too many feats for a plain barbarian ... and the cityscape enhancement requires barbarian levels ...
Cold Napalm 09-23-07, 12:29 PM	Since your not going with the whole lance uber charging, maybe change your weapon of choice to bastard sword and take a level of exotic weapon master? If you can change alignment, the switch to lawful and take kensai. Pounce + ki up + 2x str to attack + valourous weapon + power attack can get pretty mean. Let see at level 9 that should be +10 (20 str)+8 (ki up) + 18 (power attack it all away)...all times two for 2d10+72 damage per hit. Not too shabby. If you can get boots of speed thats 6d10+216 damage a round potentially.
FrostHammer 09-23-07, 01:03 PM	I am already taking Shock Trooper. I don't have citiscape or the book that has Skill Tricks, so no go there. But yeah, dipping 4 levels into a fighter is a definite must. I am not really allowed to change alignment in this way. Otherwise I really would've loved Kensai. but eh, rping wise my character loves the wild and her freedom too much.
Cold Napalm 09-23-07, 01:25 PM	Well fine, no kensai, but that only lowers the damage by 48...so thats a good chunk of damage still...but you still have to switch falchion for bastard sword.
Khadmus 09-23-07, 01:46 PM	Well fine, no kensai, but that only lowers the damage by 48...so thats a good chunk of damage still...but you still have to switch falchion for bastard sword. Why not great scimitar?
Cold Napalm 09-23-07, 02:08 PM	Why not great scimitar? I don't have sandstorm with me...is it that a bastard scimitar? If so then it'll be fine...if not, then it has to be a two handed martial weapon that can be used one handed as an exotic (so dwraven waraxe, bastard sword, maul, warmace...etc).
StruckingFuggle 09-23-07, 02:17 PM	I am already taking Shock Trooper. I don't have citiscape or the book that has Skill Tricks, so no go there. But yeah, dipping 4 levels into a fighter is a definite must. http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a The Cityscape Alternate Class Features were put up on the web.
Khadmus 09-23-07, 03:29 PM	I don't have sandstorm with me...is it that a bastard scimitar? If so then it'll be fine...if not, then it has to be a two handed martial weapon that can be used one handed as an exotic (so dwraven waraxe, bastard sword, maul, warmace...etc). Oui. 1d8/18-20 exotic 1.5hander
FrostHammer 09-23-07, 03:42 PM	Why is exotic weapon master so good?
Khadmus 09-23-07, 08:08 PM	Why is exotic weapon master so good? Dunno. [This is a bump/seconding of the question]
Shedeo 09-24-07, 11:09 PM	Why is exotic weapon master so good? Take one level, and you can get x2 strength bonus on a two-handed exotic weapon. Really nice for the fullblade wielder in all of us, but not really amazing for you currently.
FrostHammer 09-25-07, 01:21 AM	What makes the Fullblade different?
Khadmus 09-25-07, 04:15 PM	Not sure, since I didn't read the suggestion too carefully. Fullblade is 2d8/19-20 2h. I prefer Great Falchion (2d4->1d12) or Jovar (falchion's 2d4->2d6)
Fwib 11-26-07, 12:10 PM	Why is exotic weapon master so good?As previously mentioned, you can get the ability to have x2 STR bonus do damage with your 1h exotic weapon wielded 2h. But in the very next sentence it says that you get to treat the weapon as wielded 2h for power-attack - which is rather nice for double/multi-wielding, full-attack-charging shock troopers.
dawnbringer 11-26-07, 12:20 PM	Be a warforged with the adamantine body feat, and then take the warforged prestige class. Its in eberron campaign setting book, and its a PrC that focuses on charging, but you have to be a warforged.
Pechvarry 11-26-07, 12:29 PM	If you plan to encounter your single favored enemy often... Favored Power Attack is nice for a higher PA increment... I believe it's in Complete Warrior or Adventurer.
PhaedrusXY 11-26-07, 12:51 PM	Take one level, and you can get x2 strength bonus on a two-handed exotic weapon. Really nice for the fullblade wielder in all of us, but not really amazing for you currently.You can't use that class feature with a fullblade. As already stated in the thread, it has to be a weapon like the bastard sword.
RobbyPants 11-26-07, 01:06 PM	You can't use that class feature with a fullblade. As already stated in the thread, it has to be a weapon like the bastard sword. Correct. Although, if the stats posted by Khadmus are correct for the great scimitar, it would be a good way to get a good crit threat range and have a one-handed exotic weapon. If you have a good Str mod (+4 or better), this is certainly a good way to go.
AtsuiShoto 11-26-07, 01:17 PM	Isn't a fullblade just a Large-sized bastard sword? A creature capable of wielding Large weapons would treat it as a bastard sword. A human with Monkey Grip and EWP: Bastard Sword, for instance, could then wield a fullblade two-handed or one-handed at his leisure. In either instance he would suffer a -2 penalty to his attacks with the fullblade, in the former case because he is wielding a weapon 1 size larger than he is normally able to (going from one-handed Large to two-handed Medium incurs this penalty), and in the latter case because Monkey Grip applies a -2 penalty. The way this all would mesh with the Exotic Weapon Master class ability is as follows: Two Weapon Fighting with 1 fullblade (treated as two-handed for Power Attack) at a -2 attack penalty on top of any TWF penalties, and one light or one-handed weapon (treated as normal for Power Attack) with no extra penalties; or else two-handed use of just a fullblade with a -2 attack penalty, adding x2 STR modifier to damage. Mechanically optimal? No. But the Exotic Weapon Master ability does help to improve the otherwise dismal Monkey Grip feat when used with a fullblade. Also, some people think wielding a Large-sized weapon looks cool, and there's the off-chance that you'll pick up a really nifty one during a campaign that you wouldn't be able to wield otherwise.
Fwib 11-27-07, 10:30 AM	More stuff that a GM might accept: Dragonborn. Winged-aspect dragonborn get an extra charge-damage multiplier on a diving charge. Being an orc dragonborn will get you both that and the Headlong Rush multiplier.