Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DaksTheHunter 03-28-08, 12:35 AM	So, I've run into a couple of questions/clarifications regarding the Dervish prestige class and stacking of abilities... 1) A dervish is required to move 5 feet between each attack during a dervish dance, so assuming you have TWF/ITWF you would have to move a total of 20 feet to take all 4 attacks from the full round attack, right? 2) Since speed seems to be a key element of the dervish, it seemed natural to take at least 1 level in barbarian for fast movement. If I also took the ranger variant listed in Unearthed Arcana (p58), which also gains fast movement as a barbarian, would getting it twice stack to 20 feet, or would there be absolutely no advantage to that? 3) A thousand cuts says the dervish does not have to move 5ft between each extra attack gained by great cleave, but it does not say he CAN'T still take that normally required movement. So the question is, does he have the option to still move 5ft between extra attack (assuming he has the movement left to spare) due to the class requirement (bypassing the description of great cleave) and the description just means he is not required to, or should the description of a thousand cuts simple say he can't? Thanks for the time guys, Daks
Staple 03-28-08, 02:51 AM	1) Yeah, you have to take that move with 2 weapon fighting. 2) Both of these say that your speed increases, they don't say that they give you a typed bonus, so they stack. 3) That's a DM call, ask yours.
Eilistraeeeee 03-28-08, 08:38 AM	This has no relation to you earlier question, but it is more of a suggestion. I once played a Dervish, that basically started out as a Psychic Warrior/Elocator that later took level in ELocator (more) and Dervish. If i remember correctly it went something like: Psy6/Eloc6/Dervish8 at 20th It was a hell of a lot of fun to play, coz the Elocator gives you even more (and psionically ridiculous) movement options (including speed, with Skate) that are very very fun to use if you combine it with Dervish (psionic powers also help). You should think about it, though Bbn/Ranger seems quite okay too, with the double movement bonuses. I played it quite high levels, so I wouldn't know how it feels at lower levels, it is probably not so much a combat machine before level 10 but certainly worth it later on.... Have fun playing Dervish, they are too cool M2C
The_Shaman 03-28-08, 10:04 AM	Did you play with partial BABs? It sounds like you certainly had a serious attack problem at low levels.
Slaunyeh 03-28-08, 11:46 AM	I have a scout/elocator/dervish in the works that could be fun to try out, if I can get the GM to go for it. :)
DaksTheHunter 03-28-08, 01:32 PM	I'm currently playing a Scout5/Barbarian1/Fighter2/Dervish5 human and, the way this game seems to be going it looks like I'm going to need the extra movement. It's honestly a convoluted mess right now. The scout was taken for movement+skirmish+imp skirmish prereq, barbarian for extra movement, and fighter for the extra feats. I'm not sure if I should take the ranger variant for a little more movement, 2nd barbarian for imp. uncanny dodge (singe i received uncanny dodge from the scout), or finish dervish first. This campaign is just going so bizarre (ie: dm is fired next game) that I really think forgoing the dervish 1-2 levels might be in order. bleh. Thanks for the responses guys, really appreciate it :-D
dman11235 03-28-08, 01:35 PM	1) Wrong, you must move 5' between every attack, so if you had 6 attacks due to TWF/ITWF you'd have to move at least 30 ft. Not every iterative attack, every attack. 2) They will stack, but there might not be much of an advantage because you might not need the speed. Speed is always nice though, so it can be useful. Seed of Thought and an item that grants a different bonus to speed (morale, divine, jimbo, pwnage) will be a nice thing and don't cost you a class level. Also, Fist of the Forest and Forest Reeve (CChamp) grant fast movement. Check List of Stuff for more ways to get it (in my sigs Handy Haversack). 3) ??? Thousand Cuts says nothing about Great CLeave (afaik, I'm afb), but it does say that you may attack twice between moving, using the extra attacks from the ability. EDIT: Start a new thread if you want in depth responses, otherwise, I'd say that if you need the movement, you can take a level in Psychic Warrior and take Speed of Tought with your bonus feat and take Force Screen as your power (gives you a shield bonus to AC). With a high enough wisdom, you'll be fine on PP/day.
DaksTheHunter 03-28-08, 01:51 PM	1) Sorry, I just was asking about TWF/ITWF and a BAB under 11, I can translate that easily enough once 6 attacks in a full round are attained, so I figured I'd just type a little bit less :D 2) The reason I'm wanting the speed is b/c my DM is planning on making the party fight itself, and between the people I'm most worried about I SHOULD have a speed advantage (while also every other disadvantage possible, plus some that are definitely against the rules... ugh), but b/c of the way the DM is favoring him, I won't have that either. I honestly don't expect to be able to survive w/o it since my whole strategy is hit and run the f* away. And I'll look into those things, TYVM dman. 3) "A dervish also gains the benefit of the Great Cleave feat with slashing weapons while performing a thousand cuts, even if she does not meat the prerequisites. She does not have to move 5 feet before making any extra attacks granted by this ability." That's what I was referring to.
dman11235 03-28-08, 02:42 PM	Don't remember that part of it, I only remember the 2x attacks part. Well, if that is so, it's pretty sefl explanitory. You don't have to move before taking that extra attack.
kalstrand 03-28-08, 05:19 PM	I would say you can't move before a Great Cleave attack. The ability simply says you don't have to but does nothing to overide the Great Cleave feat restrictions. Keep in mind the speed granted from Scout and Dervish are both Enhancement Bonuses so they don't stack.
runestar 03-28-08, 07:04 PM	2) Since speed seems to be a key element of the dervish, it seemed natural to take at least 1 level in barbarian for fast movement. If I also took the ranger variant listed in Unearthed Arcana (p58), which also gains fast movement as a barbarian, would getting it twice stack to 20 feet, or would there be absolutely no advantage to that? They are effectively both from the same source (since both abilities share the same name), so they would not stack.
dman11235 03-28-08, 10:41 PM	That's splitting hairs runestar. I'd say that they are different sources since they are different classes.
runestar 03-28-08, 11:09 PM	That's splitting hairs runestar. I'd say that they are different sources since they are different classes. They don't stack in the same way that 2 divine graces (say you took 2 classes which granted them) do not stack, so you can't get 2xcha mod to your saves. Conversely, a paladin of tyranny/blackguard would indeed get 2xcha mod to cha saves, because divine grace and dark blessing have different names, and are thus treated as 2 completely different sources in this regard. Even though they are from different classes, the source of the speed boost is still the same, from a special ability called barb's fast movement (since the UA ranger variant even goes so far as to explain that it essentially mimic's the barb's fast movement in all aspects).
Carmath The Pure 03-28-08, 11:18 PM	The Great Cleave bit under Thousand Cuts is just a clarification. Great Cleave says you can't move when using it, while Thousand Cuts says you must move between attacks. This just confirms that you can still use GC in the middle of Thousand Cuts without interrupting the ability.