A defensive style Monk [Archive] - Wizards Community

A defensive style Monk [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Tethion
09-25-05, 07:11 PM I don't know if this would fall under the making of a prestige class or not, but I would like to create a monk that is based on defense rather then on offense. Unfortunately, I find this game to be based more around the offensive side of combat. I am trying to create a monk that values life above everything else and views the killing of any creature as the last resort. I'm looking for some direction on finding feats and skills to compliment a defensive style. Thanks in advance for any help.
windscar18
09-25-05, 07:49 PM The first thing that comes to my mind is Defensive Throw (the feat from Complete Warrior). This, where monks pretty much are the only ones who even want to consider this feat, has great flavor for a defensive style monk.

If you don't know what this does, this feat requires Improved Trip, Dodge, and Improved Unarmed Strike. Basically, when an opponent that is the target of your Dodge misses you, you can make a free Trip against them.

Tumble is pretty much a given for a Defensive Monk, and you might want some abilities centered around that.

In d20 Modern, there's a feat called Agile Riposte where if the opponent missed you with a melee attack, you automatically got an AoO. That's definately unbalancing in D&D because of the much higher prominence of melee (as opposed to d20), but that's also an alternative.

You might also want to consider Combat Expertise (which makes perfect sense) and some of its branching off feats, such as Improved Combat Expertise.
sleepydeath
09-25-05, 07:57 PM n d20 Modern, there's a feat called Agile Riposte where if the opponent missed you with a melee attack, you automatically got an AoO. That's definately unbalancing in D&D because of the much higher prominence of melee (as opposed to d20), but that's also an alternative.

there is also a feat in d&d, that does the same, it is called karmic strike. it is in the CW, i think.
windscar18
09-25-05, 08:08 PM Oh yeah, but that reduced your AC too.

Also, I think that an interesting idea is the Defensive Fighting idea. Basically, there was a feat (don't remember what it was called) that when an opponent missed you while you were using Total Defense, you could attack them next round with a +4 attack bonus. That actually sparks an interesting idea where instead of using an attack bonus, you could make it a damage bonus. Tai Chi is a good example of how this has a realistic approach; using the opponent's force instead of your own against the opponent.
BadCatMan
09-25-05, 08:29 PM Unearthed Arcana has some variant Monk styles. They're in the SRD too:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#monkVariantF ightingStyles

I think you'd like Cobra Strike (for defence), Passive Way (other defence) or Undying Way (if you value your own life just as much. :) ).
Cadfan
09-25-05, 08:40 PM If you don't want to use alternative rules, you can build it on your own.

Monks can do subdual damage with an unarmed strike, at no penalty. So, you've got your nonlethal tactics right there.

Focus on trip attacks, is my suggestion. Standing is a move action that provokes an attack of opportunity, so a tripped foe gets only one attack against you, and you get your full attacks against them, plus your attack of opportunity.

Stunning blow is also nice in this regard. It doesn't do damage, and it sets you up for a series of powerful unarmed nonlethal strikes.
Osiris Memnoch
09-26-05, 12:49 AM I (as a powergamer) have more than one amazing build tucked away for every occation. One of those just happens to be a monk with more AC than you or yourgrandmother can handle.

1) Start off with monk.
2) Work towards prestiging into Duelist.
3) Take the Kung Fu Genius feat originally found in Dragon Magazine. (crucial) What this does is make all your Monk abilities use Int instead of Wis which makes maxing it out an excellent idea when you combine Monk AC bonuses and Duelist AC bonuses.
4) Other feats to consider: Deft Opportunist, Improved Trip, and Defensive Strike.
5) For equipment, pick up a Siagham to go with the Duelist class abilites. If you're into being a pacifist character, just enchant it with Merciful or grab that feat from BoED that lets you do sudgual damage with no penalty. Also, if your DM allows any 3.0 equipment, grab a Ward Cestus from Sword and Fist.
6) For tactics, use fight defensively A LOT. Canny Defense makes your AC get real scary real fastThen, use AoO to trip. -4 to hit while prone makes you real tough to hit.

I've used this build in tournaments before and its pretty unbeatable against non-spell casters.
wonlee76
09-26-05, 01:04 AM If you're looking for AC boosts and such, the Quick Staff feat is nice for a monk in Complete Warrior. Lots of pre-reqs though so Multi-Fighter into Monk may be a better approach to help meet the feat pre-requisites. Staff is a monk weapon so eligible for flurry of blows. And from a "pacifist" type of standpoint, a staff seems more appropriate then a piercing or slashing weapon.
cmrscorpio
09-26-05, 01:57 AM Depending on your alignment, and more importantly if your DM allows it, there are the feats Vow of Nonviolence and Vow of Peace are pretty good defensive feats, although they require Sacred Vow to take. Several other Vow feats provide strong defensive bonuses as well.

In d20 modern, there is a whole series of defensive martial arts feats.
tiluvias99
09-26-05, 03:54 PM I would like to create a monk that is based on defense rather then on offense. Unfortunately, I find this game to be based more around the offensive side of combat. I am trying to create a monk that values life above everything else and views the killing of any creature as the last resort.Bando Warrior (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=421359)
heretic888
09-26-05, 04:16 PM I don't know if this would fall under the making of a prestige class or not, but I would like to create a monk that is based on defense rather then on offense.

This is possible with the Martial Artist class in Beyond Monks: The Art of the Fight.

The Martial Artist has a high BAB, two high saves (Reflex and Fortitude, I believe), d10 hit die, and a reduced list of class skills (but still has Tumble). The class gains a miscellaneous unarmored bonus to AC based on level (equal to +8 at level 20), an ability like the Barbarian's Rage (called Surge) that temporarily increases Strength and AC (and reduces Flurry of Blows penalties), a higher unarmed damage than the Monk, five bonus feats (including the ability to take Stunning Fist at an early level), and five special abilities (including the ability to take AC-enhancing abilities several times).

Since this class, unlike the Monk, is not really dependent on Wisdom (no Wis bonus to AC and very few, if any, class abilities that use Wis), this enables your Martial Artist to devote much more attention to Stamina and Dexterity --- making him/her much more powerful, defensively. And, depending on your selection of bonus feats and special abilities, your Martial Artist can have a pretty hefty AC (in addition to the +8 the class already gains by level 20). The higher BAB lets your comfortably devote more hit bonuses to Combat Expertise feats, and the higher unarmed damage lets the Martial Artist unleash a higher amount of nonlethal damage.

Personally, I think this class is pretty damn cool. You should check it out. ;)

Laterz.
storybookknight
09-26-05, 04:21 PM while class-speaking there are a number of ways to up a monk's defense, it sounds to me more like you're looking for a monk that follows ahimsa or some similar way of nonviolence.

Many Many things may be found in the Book of Exalted deeds.

See also - Vow of Poverty - but actually roleplay your character, don't just take the feat for the bonuses. You will be destroyed.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Tethion 09-25-05, 07:11 PM	I don't know if this would fall under the making of a prestige class or not, but I would like to create a monk that is based on defense rather then on offense. Unfortunately, I find this game to be based more around the offensive side of combat. I am trying to create a monk that values life above everything else and views the killing of any creature as the last resort. I'm looking for some direction on finding feats and skills to compliment a defensive style. Thanks in advance for any help.
windscar18 09-25-05, 07:49 PM	The first thing that comes to my mind is Defensive Throw (the feat from Complete Warrior). This, where monks pretty much are the only ones who even want to consider this feat, has great flavor for a defensive style monk. If you don't know what this does, this feat requires Improved Trip, Dodge, and Improved Unarmed Strike. Basically, when an opponent that is the target of your Dodge misses you, you can make a free Trip against them. Tumble is pretty much a given for a Defensive Monk, and you might want some abilities centered around that. In d20 Modern, there's a feat called Agile Riposte where if the opponent missed you with a melee attack, you automatically got an AoO. That's definately unbalancing in D&D because of the much higher prominence of melee (as opposed to d20), but that's also an alternative. You might also want to consider Combat Expertise (which makes perfect sense) and some of its branching off feats, such as Improved Combat Expertise.
sleepydeath 09-25-05, 07:57 PM	n d20 Modern, there's a feat called Agile Riposte where if the opponent missed you with a melee attack, you automatically got an AoO. That's definately unbalancing in D&D because of the much higher prominence of melee (as opposed to d20), but that's also an alternative. there is also a feat in d&d, that does the same, it is called karmic strike. it is in the CW, i think.
windscar18 09-25-05, 08:08 PM	Oh yeah, but that reduced your AC too. Also, I think that an interesting idea is the Defensive Fighting idea. Basically, there was a feat (don't remember what it was called) that when an opponent missed you while you were using Total Defense, you could attack them next round with a +4 attack bonus. That actually sparks an interesting idea where instead of using an attack bonus, you could make it a damage bonus. Tai Chi is a good example of how this has a realistic approach; using the opponent's force instead of your own against the opponent.
BadCatMan 09-25-05, 08:29 PM	Unearthed Arcana has some variant Monk styles. They're in the SRD too: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#monkVariantF ightingStyles I think you'd like Cobra Strike (for defence), Passive Way (other defence) or Undying Way (if you value your own life just as much. :) ).
Cadfan 09-25-05, 08:40 PM	If you don't want to use alternative rules, you can build it on your own. Monks can do subdual damage with an unarmed strike, at no penalty. So, you've got your nonlethal tactics right there. Focus on trip attacks, is my suggestion. Standing is a move action that provokes an attack of opportunity, so a tripped foe gets only one attack against you, and you get your full attacks against them, plus your attack of opportunity. Stunning blow is also nice in this regard. It doesn't do damage, and it sets you up for a series of powerful unarmed nonlethal strikes.
Osiris Memnoch 09-26-05, 12:49 AM	I (as a powergamer) have more than one amazing build tucked away for every occation. One of those just happens to be a monk with more AC than you or yourgrandmother can handle. 1) Start off with monk. 2) Work towards prestiging into Duelist. 3) Take the Kung Fu Genius feat originally found in Dragon Magazine. (crucial) What this does is make all your Monk abilities use Int instead of Wis which makes maxing it out an excellent idea when you combine Monk AC bonuses and Duelist AC bonuses. 4) Other feats to consider: Deft Opportunist, Improved Trip, and Defensive Strike. 5) For equipment, pick up a Siagham to go with the Duelist class abilites. If you're into being a pacifist character, just enchant it with Merciful or grab that feat from BoED that lets you do sudgual damage with no penalty. Also, if your DM allows any 3.0 equipment, grab a Ward Cestus from Sword and Fist. 6) For tactics, use fight defensively A LOT. Canny Defense makes your AC get real scary real fastThen, use AoO to trip. -4 to hit while prone makes you real tough to hit. I've used this build in tournaments before and its pretty unbeatable against non-spell casters.
wonlee76 09-26-05, 01:04 AM	If you're looking for AC boosts and such, the Quick Staff feat is nice for a monk in Complete Warrior. Lots of pre-reqs though so Multi-Fighter into Monk may be a better approach to help meet the feat pre-requisites. Staff is a monk weapon so eligible for flurry of blows. And from a "pacifist" type of standpoint, a staff seems more appropriate then a piercing or slashing weapon.
cmrscorpio 09-26-05, 01:57 AM	Depending on your alignment, and more importantly if your DM allows it, there are the feats Vow of Nonviolence and Vow of Peace are pretty good defensive feats, although they require Sacred Vow to take. Several other Vow feats provide strong defensive bonuses as well. In d20 modern, there is a whole series of defensive martial arts feats.
tiluvias99 09-26-05, 03:54 PM	I would like to create a monk that is based on defense rather then on offense. Unfortunately, I find this game to be based more around the offensive side of combat. I am trying to create a monk that values life above everything else and views the killing of any creature as the last resort.Bando Warrior (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=421359)
heretic888 09-26-05, 04:16 PM	I don't know if this would fall under the making of a prestige class or not, but I would like to create a monk that is based on defense rather then on offense. This is possible with the Martial Artist class in Beyond Monks: The Art of the Fight. The Martial Artist has a high BAB, two high saves (Reflex and Fortitude, I believe), d10 hit die, and a reduced list of class skills (but still has Tumble). The class gains a miscellaneous unarmored bonus to AC based on level (equal to +8 at level 20), an ability like the Barbarian's Rage (called Surge) that temporarily increases Strength and AC (and reduces Flurry of Blows penalties), a higher unarmed damage than the Monk, five bonus feats (including the ability to take Stunning Fist at an early level), and five special abilities (including the ability to take AC-enhancing abilities several times). Since this class, unlike the Monk, is not really dependent on Wisdom (no Wis bonus to AC and very few, if any, class abilities that use Wis), this enables your Martial Artist to devote much more attention to Stamina and Dexterity --- making him/her much more powerful, defensively. And, depending on your selection of bonus feats and special abilities, your Martial Artist can have a pretty hefty AC (in addition to the +8 the class already gains by level 20). The higher BAB lets your comfortably devote more hit bonuses to Combat Expertise feats, and the higher unarmed damage lets the Martial Artist unleash a higher amount of nonlethal damage. Personally, I think this class is pretty damn cool. You should check it out. ;) Laterz.
storybookknight 09-26-05, 04:21 PM	while class-speaking there are a number of ways to up a monk's defense, it sounds to me more like you're looking for a monk that follows ahimsa or some similar way of nonviolence. Many Many things may be found in the Book of Exalted deeds. See also - Vow of Poverty - but actually roleplay your character, don't just take the feat for the bonuses. You will be destroyed.