A dumb question about Wixards and Familiars [Archive] - Wizards Community

A dumb question about Wixards and Familiars [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Kevtar
03-10-05, 03:28 PM I haven't played a spell caster for about 15 years (long story), and I am putting one together now. The wizard is taking a vow of poverty and we are starting at 6th level so I have some bonus exalted feats to choose.

I am going to choose a celestial cat, and was wondering, what kind of a relationship does a wizard have with the familiar?

For instance, is the SR6 of the celestial cat shared by the spellcaster? Are any of the celestial traits of the familiar shared with the spellcaster?

Thanks
lukelightning
03-10-05, 03:40 PM Nope, you don't get SR or any other celestial traits from the cat. The only really good thing about a celestial (or fiendish) familiar is that since their HD is equal to your level, they get DR.
Luminous Crayon
03-10-05, 04:46 PM The only really good thing about a celestial (or fiendish) familiar is that since their HD is equal to your level, they get DR.Ooh, that is nifty!
Contrast
03-10-05, 05:01 PM The only really good thing about a celestial (or fiendish) familiar is that since their HD is equal to your level, they get DR.

Do you have any official verification for that statement?
Lexarius
03-10-05, 06:27 PM Do you have any official verification for that statement?

"For the purposes of effects related to number of Hit Dice, use the master's character level or the familiar's normal HD total, whichever is higher"

The question then is whether or not the template scaling counts as an effect based on the creature's HD. Which sounds like a very good question to ask. Having a familiar with a scaling template would suddenly become much more useful than expected. Which I suppose is a good thing if you are spending a feat on Improved Familiar and getting a cat instead of, say, a Winter Wolf.
Contrast
03-10-05, 06:46 PM Thankyou so much for asking exactly what I just asked.
Hot Rod
03-10-05, 07:47 PM Look up the celestial template. Your familiar gets those abilities at the listed HD (i.e. when you get to that level of character regardless of class(es))

Your familiar gets lots of special abilities, and according to the template gains the celestial language. (debatable, YMMV, ask your DM)

Really beneficial if you are not staying a Wiz or Sorc for your entire career. (PrC's don't advance the familiar table except the Arcane Hieromancer RotW) (sp?)
Pax
03-10-05, 08:25 PM Celestial Cat? Any particular reason for that choice? I ask, because IMHO the Lantern Archon (same feat required for it) is a much superior choice as a familiar. :D
Gnarl
03-11-05, 03:12 PM The wizard is taking a vow of poverty

I don't mean to be a jackass, but you noticed that a spellbook costed money. Double check with your DM that he can make an exception on the rules for a spellbook.
God of Slivers
03-11-05, 03:18 PM No offense, but a VoP wizard is perhaps the worst possible choice you could make. A wizard relies on building up his spellbook and crafting magic items, neither of which you could do. Don't be hypnotized by the high stat bonuses, a VoP wizard is crap. Thats fine if you're doing it for rp reasons, but don't plan on being overly useful. A VoP sorcerer can work out, but a wizard is the most cash intensive class there is. I strongly recommend you drop this idea, but thats just my two cp.
D1Tremere
03-11-05, 03:28 PM No offense, but a VoP wizard is perhaps the worst possible choice you could make. A wizard relies on building up his spellbook and crafting magic items, neither of which you could do. Don't be hypnotized by the high stat bonuses, a VoP wizard is crap. Thats fine if you're doing it for rp reasons, but don't plan on being overly useful. A VoP sorcerer can work out, but a wizard is the most cash intensive class there is. I strongly recommend you drop this idea, but thats just my two cp.

This isn't exactly true, although it is a challenging character to play.
2 feats I would strongly recomend, Collegiate Wizard (Complete Arcane P 181)
lets you gain more spells in your book for free at each level, Eschew Materials (Players) lets you cast without need of spell components costing 1GP or less.
It can be done, and still know more spells then a sorcerer, just requires a lot of forethought about which spells you are going to take.
God of Slivers
03-11-05, 04:06 PM This isn't exactly true, although it is a challenging character to play.
2 feats I would strongly recomend, Collegiate Wizard (Complete Arcane P 181)
lets you gain more spells in your book for free at each level, Eschew Materials (Players) lets you cast without need of spell components costing 1GP or less.
It can be done, and still know more spells then a sorcerer, just requires a lot of forethought about which spells you are going to take.

Or you could be an illusionist using the UA varient. They get an extra 2 illusion spells per new spell level. Still, losing out on item creation (NO SCROLLS) is a HUGE hit. I would never even consider it, but to each his own.
Kevtar
03-11-05, 04:22 PM ***************
I don't mean to be a jackass, but you noticed that a spellbook costed money.
Double check with your DM that he can make an exception on the rules for a
spellbook.
***************

Aha! But what about a Wizard who finds spells throughout his adventures and then copies them to a tattoed spellbook using his "Craft: Other(tattoo) skill? ;)

Would copying spells from a spellbook or scroll and then tattoing them onto your body break VoP? I don't think so since you never "own" the spellbooks or scrolls. It could be argued that a Spellcaster's spells have a cash equivalent, but then so would a Monk's flurry of blows or a Rogues sneak attack, all can be assigned a value by someone who wants them.
Kevtar
03-11-05, 04:24 PM *******************************
Celestial Cat? Any particular reason for that choice? I ask, because IMHO the Lantern Archon (same feat required for it) is a much superior choice as a familiar.
*******************************
I... don't... know... lol

Haven't really looked into that deeply. This was a "normal" character that I am applying all this "exalted" crap to just to compare the two. The original character had a cat for the + to Move Silent.

That's all

I'll have to look up the Lantern Archon thing
Daedalus2701
03-11-05, 04:53 PM Don't forget that the inks needed to write spells into a spellbook cost 100 gp per page, and the cost is doubled for tattoos IIRC. If you do work something out, you should really look at taking the geometer class from complete arcane to really cut down on the number of pages needed.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kevtar 03-10-05, 03:28 PM	I haven't played a spell caster for about 15 years (long story), and I am putting one together now. The wizard is taking a vow of poverty and we are starting at 6th level so I have some bonus exalted feats to choose. I am going to choose a celestial cat, and was wondering, what kind of a relationship does a wizard have with the familiar? For instance, is the SR6 of the celestial cat shared by the spellcaster? Are any of the celestial traits of the familiar shared with the spellcaster? Thanks
lukelightning 03-10-05, 03:40 PM	Nope, you don't get SR or any other celestial traits from the cat. The only really good thing about a celestial (or fiendish) familiar is that since their HD is equal to your level, they get DR.
Luminous Crayon 03-10-05, 04:46 PM	The only really good thing about a celestial (or fiendish) familiar is that since their HD is equal to your level, they get DR.Ooh, that is nifty!
Contrast 03-10-05, 05:01 PM	The only really good thing about a celestial (or fiendish) familiar is that since their HD is equal to your level, they get DR. Do you have any official verification for that statement?
Lexarius 03-10-05, 06:27 PM	Do you have any official verification for that statement? "For the purposes of effects related to number of Hit Dice, use the master's character level or the familiar's normal HD total, whichever is higher" The question then is whether or not the template scaling counts as an effect based on the creature's HD. Which sounds like a very good question to ask. Having a familiar with a scaling template would suddenly become much more useful than expected. Which I suppose is a good thing if you are spending a feat on Improved Familiar and getting a cat instead of, say, a Winter Wolf.
Contrast 03-10-05, 06:46 PM	Thankyou so much for asking exactly what I just asked.
Hot Rod 03-10-05, 07:47 PM	Look up the celestial template. Your familiar gets those abilities at the listed HD (i.e. when you get to that level of character regardless of class(es)) Your familiar gets lots of special abilities, and according to the template gains the celestial language. (debatable, YMMV, ask your DM) Really beneficial if you are not staying a Wiz or Sorc for your entire career. (PrC's don't advance the familiar table except the Arcane Hieromancer RotW) (sp?)
Pax 03-10-05, 08:25 PM	Celestial Cat? Any particular reason for that choice? I ask, because IMHO the Lantern Archon (same feat required for it) is a much superior choice as a familiar. :D
Gnarl 03-11-05, 03:12 PM	The wizard is taking a vow of poverty I don't mean to be a jackass, but you noticed that a spellbook costed money. Double check with your DM that he can make an exception on the rules for a spellbook.
God of Slivers 03-11-05, 03:18 PM	No offense, but a VoP wizard is perhaps the worst possible choice you could make. A wizard relies on building up his spellbook and crafting magic items, neither of which you could do. Don't be hypnotized by the high stat bonuses, a VoP wizard is crap. Thats fine if you're doing it for rp reasons, but don't plan on being overly useful. A VoP sorcerer can work out, but a wizard is the most cash intensive class there is. I strongly recommend you drop this idea, but thats just my two cp.
D1Tremere 03-11-05, 03:28 PM	No offense, but a VoP wizard is perhaps the worst possible choice you could make. A wizard relies on building up his spellbook and crafting magic items, neither of which you could do. Don't be hypnotized by the high stat bonuses, a VoP wizard is crap. Thats fine if you're doing it for rp reasons, but don't plan on being overly useful. A VoP sorcerer can work out, but a wizard is the most cash intensive class there is. I strongly recommend you drop this idea, but thats just my two cp. This isn't exactly true, although it is a challenging character to play. 2 feats I would strongly recomend, Collegiate Wizard (Complete Arcane P 181) lets you gain more spells in your book for free at each level, Eschew Materials (Players) lets you cast without need of spell components costing 1GP or less. It can be done, and still know more spells then a sorcerer, just requires a lot of forethought about which spells you are going to take.
God of Slivers 03-11-05, 04:06 PM	This isn't exactly true, although it is a challenging character to play. 2 feats I would strongly recomend, Collegiate Wizard (Complete Arcane P 181) lets you gain more spells in your book for free at each level, Eschew Materials (Players) lets you cast without need of spell components costing 1GP or less. It can be done, and still know more spells then a sorcerer, just requires a lot of forethought about which spells you are going to take. Or you could be an illusionist using the UA varient. They get an extra 2 illusion spells per new spell level. Still, losing out on item creation (NO SCROLLS) is a HUGE hit. I would never even consider it, but to each his own.
Kevtar 03-11-05, 04:22 PM	************* I don't mean to be a jackass, but you noticed that a spellbook costed money. Double check with your DM that he can make an exception on the rules for a spellbook. ************* Aha! But what about a Wizard who finds spells throughout his adventures and then copies them to a tattoed spellbook using his "Craft: Other(tattoo) skill? ;) Would copying spells from a spellbook or scroll and then tattoing them onto your body break VoP? I don't think so since you never "own" the spellbooks or scrolls. It could be argued that a Spellcaster's spells have a cash equivalent, but then so would a Monk's flurry of blows or a Rogues sneak attack, all can be assigned a value by someone who wants them.
Kevtar 03-11-05, 04:24 PM	***************************** Celestial Cat? Any particular reason for that choice? I ask, because IMHO the Lantern Archon (same feat required for it) is a much superior choice as a familiar. ***************************** I... don't... know... lol Haven't really looked into that deeply. This was a "normal" character that I am applying all this "exalted" crap to just to compare the two. The original character had a cat for the + to Move Silent. That's all I'll have to look up the Lantern Archon thing
Daedalus2701 03-11-05, 04:53 PM	Don't forget that the inks needed to write spells into a spellbook cost 100 gp per page, and the cost is doubled for tattoos IIRC. If you do work something out, you should really look at taking the geometer class from complete arcane to really cut down on the number of pages needed.