Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Disciple_of_Juiblex 08-14-07, 02:35 PM	(i figued this was the best forum for this, if not i am sorry) I’m going to be starting a campaign soon and because none of my players have ever chosen a familiar (for various reasons, mostly because a lack of variety and the XP penalty when they die) Im altering them to make them slightly more useful and open up more options. Im looking for some thoughts and opinions on the changes and if you think any of them are unbalancing. Familiars provide all the normal benefits within the book except for their unique ability, which has changed into a different feat or a different ability. Death And Replacement Upon the death of a familiar the Masters connection with magic is somewhat diminished. Subtract one spell able to be cast per day from each spell level he/she has, for one week Furthermore a new familiar may not be summoned until one month after the last one was slain. A slain familiar can be raised or resurrected as normal and does not loose a level or a point of constitution if the event occurs. The master may also change his familiar into a different one. The ritual costs 1,000 gold and 24 hours of work. The List (This is a list of Creatures in M.M. 1 and the DM’s Guide with CR of 1/3 or lower) Bat- Blindsense 5 feet Cat- Skill Focus Balance Centipeide, Tiny Monstrous (1) - Skill Focus Tumble Dog- Skill Focus: Listen Donkey- +50% to your carrying capacity Ferret (2) - Skill Focus: Slight of hand Fire Beatle, Giant (1,2)- Gain low light vision Hawk- Skill Focus: Spot Hedgehog- +1 Natural Armor Lizard- Improved Initiative Monkey (2) - Skill Focus: Climb Mouse (2) - Skill Focus: Hide Owl- Skill Focus: Search Pony- Great Fortitude Rat- Skill Focus: Swim Rat, Dire- +2 on fortitude saves against disease. Immunity to Filth Fever though you still carry it. Your bite attacks transmit Filth Fever {DC =10 + 1/2 character level} Raven (2) - Skill Focus: Appraise Scorpion, Tiny Monstrous (1) - Tremorsense 5 feet Screech owl (2) - Skill Focus: Move silently Snake, Tiny Monstrous (1) - Skill Focus: Bluff Spider, Tiny Monstrous (1) - Skill Focus: Survival Thrush (2) – Iron Will Toad- Toughness Weasel- Lightning reflexes 1 – Insect familiars do not posses the mindless quality 2 – Familiars noted with a two may speak one language of their master as a supernatural ability
zook1shoe666 08-14-07, 03:59 PM	the Dragon Familiar feat is really powerful, they might not know about it. i talked my DM into using the planar dragons.... got a Pyroclastic Wyrmling, secondary breath weapon is a disintegrating line!!! maybe they just dont realize there are some major benefits to having a familiar. check into the Improved Familiar and Dragon Familiar feats, some nice options
BW0222 08-14-07, 04:43 PM	Disciple_of_Juiblex, Familiars are already a powerful addition. I think your players may just need some help in knowing how to use them. 1. Guards. It much more difficult to sneak up on group with a familiar. The familiar immediately gives the group an extra spot and listen check, adds +2 to yours, and many have good spot/listen, low-light, scent, and even blindsense. If your group is camped out and bat or owl familiar in a tree makes it almost impossible to be snuck up on. 2. Scouting. Not in dungeons, but outdoors many familiars are extremely good at scouting. Hawks can scout the road ahead, owls can scout a trail at night, cats and rats can scout a city or town, etc. They are also intelligent enough to report back details. 3. Spying. Certain familiars are excellent spies. They can follow specific folks, climb walls, listen at windows, etc. They are also intelligent enough to report back details. Most have extremely good hide checks and/or generally go unnoticed -- there is a cat on the window? 4. Messengers. Especially at lower-levels it is great to have someone carry a note to the church, etc. 5. Skill Checks. Familiars have all your skills. If you need to make a spellcraft check to identify a spell cast, they can make the same check -- with a lower intelligence. Almost any non-physical check they can make also -- that included knowledge checks to intentify creatures, decipher script, search, etc. 6. Aid another. Since they have ranks, they can attempt and aid another on many skills. For example, if you need to decipher some writings, indentify a creature, etc. the familiar could easily aid another to give you a +2 bonus. 7. General Advice. You can ask your familiar questions. It might not be that smart (to start with), but it is an interesting way to bounce ideas off of, or for DMs to suitably give advice to players in character. 8. Speak with Animals. At 7th-level, it can speak with animals of its kind. You'd be amazed how useful such an ability can be. Ask all the other rats in the sewer to meet in the bad guys wearhouse as a distraction. Ask all the other cats in the city if anyone has seen an evil wizard with a lizard. Ask all the other hawks around if any other two-legs have been by. 9. Distractions. A cat wailing away at night, a lizard trapping on a fence, a raven singing "Joy to the half-orc", etc. can make a distraction for guards. 10. Sabatoge. A weasle with a flask of alchemists fire can easily set a building on fire. An invisible owl at night with a vial of posion would easily slip it into someone's camp and drop the vial in their cooking pot. 11. Scent. For those that have it, they can often identify smells. I.e. "Hey boss ... ogres just passed by recently." Navigating you out of fog, helping your ranger track, etc. 12. Fetching objects. Many familiars are small enough to fit through grats, bars, etc. A lot are too light to set off non-magical traps. 13. Combat. Not the best use of them, but with proper use of spells, they can be extremely efficient. A bat with a darkness spell can be really annoying. Just keep readying actions to move if the bad guy gets near you. Invisible, flying above creatures with out ranged weapons, just watching a rear tunnel during the fight in case something comes from behind, delivering a benificial touch spell to an ally (say go an make the sickened cleric invisible or bull's strength the fighter), carry small items (such as potions) to folks. etc. No need to increase the benefits they provide. They are already (if used properly) extremely potent. In many ways better than an animal companion -- especially for a ranger.
Disciple_of_Juiblex 08-14-07, 05:35 PM	Yes BW0222, i agree that in some situations they can be valuable, however in my experence familars are often forgot about until the right situation comes up and the just appear (think Oots), even so many of the situations that you bring up but the familar itself in danger which is a big "no-no" in our group. Still part of the reason for the change is to adress concerns of the group and of mine. 1. Not enough variations and even so the raven has a clear and potent advantage at lower levels with the ability to speak normal laguages. My players felt kind of forced that if the chose a familar that they needed to go with the raven, unless they wanted something else for role-playing reasons. 2. Exp lost. my players have not in the history of gaming with them (around 5 years) have EVER crafted a magic item becuse they hate the exp lost. As such a familar dieing under normal rules can cost a chunk of exp, and they dispise that. 3. The bonuses themselves i do not like. simply becuse they can add with skill focus or whatever and provide a number that is higher than it sould be. moreover i dont like the condition ability on the hawk and the owl only functioning during at a specific time, and the thrush itself not even having a bonus exept the ability to talk.
ninjarabbit 08-14-07, 06:20 PM	http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=875062&highlight=familar+handbook Do yourself a favor and read the Familar Handbook, lots of nice stuff you can do in there.
BW0222 08-14-07, 07:42 PM	Disciple_of_Juiblex, Yes BW0222, i agree that in some situations they can be valuable, however in my experence familars are often forgot about until the right situation comes up and the just appear (think Oots), even so many of the situations that you bring up but the familar itself in danger which is a big "no-no" in our group. Still part of the reason for the change is to adress concerns of the group and of mine. Just because people forget to use an ability, is no reason to make the ability more powerful. I know rangers who forget their favored enemy bonuses, folks who forget they have certain magical items, clerics who forget to turn, etc. I'm not going to make their abilities or magical items more powerful. Have you even thought of reminding them? Either out of character, or just having the familiar set forward and to something. In my games, wizards and sorcerors rarely forget about their familiars -- they are more than happy to remind PCs when they forget things. 1. Not enough variations and even so the raven has a clear and potent advantage at lower levels with the ability to speak normal laguages. My players felt kind of forced that if the chose a familar that they needed to go with the raven, unless they wanted something else for role-playing reasons. There is plenty of variation. There are ten normal familiars, before going to sources such as the DMG, complete arcane, the improved familiar feat, campaign specific familiars, etc. All familiars have their advantages. It don't see the raven any more likely than any other familiar type. There are lots of reasons (other than roleplaying) not to take a raven. First, ravens (hawks, and owls) only have average manuverability. They can't fly in most dungeons or buildings with 5' wide hallways and turns. A bat is a better choice of those typically underground -- especially with blindsense. Second, flying creatures are mighty obvious in many situations. You typically can't hide when flying. Excellent outdoor scouts, yes, but not so great as spies. Rats, cats, lizards, and snakes are often much more useful. Cats are often much more at home in cities and towns. Third, raven does not have scent. Other familiars do. Forth, lots of other familiars are better at carrying or manipulating items. A cat can carry a potion, a weasle can drag the keys across the floor, etc. A raven (because of it's limited strength and flight load limits) can't. etc. 2. Exp lost. my players have not in the history of gaming with them (around 5 years) have EVER crafted a magic item becuse they hate the exp lost. As such a familar dieing under normal rules can cost a chunk of exp, and they dispise that. That is still not a reason to alter familiars, anymore than I would alter the crafting system such that they can have their cake and eat it also. I have rarely seen a familiar die. The few times I've had a player try sending their familiar off into dangerous situations, I'd had the familiar simply refuse. XP lose is part of the game. It keeps folks form using familiars to set off traps, in suicide combat mission, etc. That fact your players don't like something, don't use something, etc. is their choice. You don't alter the game such that they don't have to choose. 3. The bonuses themselves i do not like. simply becuse they can add with skill focus or whatever and provide a number that is higher than it sould be. moreover i dont like the condition ability on the hawk and the owl only functioning during at a specific time, and the thrush itself not even having a bonus exept the ability to talk. So? The bonus is such a small part of what the familiar provides. Honestly, +3 to one check is nothing considering that it gives you two checks in many cases, it can aid-another on many skills, it already provides +2 to your listen/spot, and it provides massive listen/spot checks already, and its special qualifiers or movement often make still checks meaningless. If you want to change the familiar system, it's your game. If you want to justify why it needs to be changed, sorry... I'm not buying it.
malignor 08-14-07, 08:43 PM	As a guy playing a Ranger4/Src6/EldKnight2 (and thus only a familiar progressed to level 6, plus all my skills & base saves & BAB etc. etc), I have to agree with BW0222. My hawk familiar, Masoril, is an essential part of my team. Spot +16, extra rolls for those precious spellcraft & knowledge checks, assistance rolls for tracking, and he's my wand caddy (sitting on my shoulder, spending his actions handing me wands from my quiver to save me the trouble of drawing them). No way, I'm never gonna neglect such an incredible asset to my character's abilities. He's also never attacked... why waste a round going after the little bird, when the master just cast True Strike wielding his magic Glaive, or shot you with a Ray of Enfeeblement, or Hasted the party, or the Enlarged VoP Monk just beat you down with his holy fists? Far better to spend that round begging to be spared, which would certainly be more likely to succeed than attacking the hawk equipped with minor magic items (Ring of Protection on left leg, etc). The hawk on the shoulder is no threat (and is also just as buffed as the master - Share Spells is the shiznit), and any one of a thousand actions will better increase your chance for survival. Speaking of Shared Spells, wanna turn into 2 hydras with only one casting of Polymorph? Familiars rock.