A Fighers Weapon Size [Archive] - Wizards Community

A Fighers Weapon Size [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Cellidin
01-27-05, 10:10 AM Hey,

I'm creating a fighter, and I'm thinking about letting him use a large greatsword. So he'd be dealing 3d6 instead of 2d6. What's the minimum penalty he'd get and which feats would he have to choose?

Exotic Weapon Pro.
Monkey Grip

Any others?
Wargamer
01-27-05, 10:15 AM I think you get a -4 To Hit penalty for using weapons that are too big for you...
Cellidin
01-27-05, 10:50 AM no way to reduce it? Is it on to hit and dmg or just to hit?
Jell_Moo
01-27-05, 10:58 AM There is a feat in Complete Warrior called Monkey Grip which will reduce the penalty to hit to -2. The penalty is just to hit.
Cellidin
01-27-05, 11:06 AM So in theory, if i take exotic weapon pro, Take a fullblade or a merculier greatsword. I can either have 3d8 or a 3d6 weapon with a x4 multiplier on criticals, with only a -2 penalty?

*smirks*
Jell_Moo
01-27-05, 11:18 AM Well, that would be combining a 3e weapon and a 3.5 feat, something I am uncertain would work given the way that weapon sizes/rules changed in 3.5. If your DM would allow this, then yeah, I suppose, but I certainly could see why he wouldn't.
Dunelord
01-27-05, 11:28 AM So in theory, if i take exotic weapon pro, Take a fullblade or a merculier greatsword. I can either have 3d8 or a 3d6 weapon with a x4 multiplier on criticals, with only a -2 penalty?

*smirks*

The fullblade don't work man. The full blade was a weapon sized for large creatures in 3.0, in 3.5 it's done away with since it's a large creature uses (most times) a greatsword sized for them. I don't see why you couldn't use a mercural greatsword sized for a large creature if you had Monkey Grip, with the -2.
Cellidin
01-27-05, 11:35 AM Well, the fullblade is somewhere between medium and large. It's not large, which is why you can use it without any penalties with exotic weapon pro. and monkey grip in 3.0. Thats why I think it could be used with -2 in 3.5
Knarfy
01-27-05, 11:38 AM Just a few things to remember:
1) anyone can use weapons made for larger creatures than themselves at a -2 penalty per size difference. The problem is that for each size step up (more or less) the difficulty of using the weapon increases by one step. (aka, from light to one hand to two hand to cant) So anyone with shortsword proficiency could theoretically use a huge shortsword, which (for a medium creature) would deal 2d6 points of damage. However, they would take a -6 penalty to attacks, because the grip is a foot wide :P Monkey grip allows you to wield weapons one size larger without the commensurate increase in difficulty. (so a large shortsword is still a light weapon, rather than a one handed weapon)

2) The mercurial greatsword only deals 2d6 damage, with a x4 crit. It says otherwise in sword and fist, but go read the errata. A large mercurial greatsword would deal 3d6 and have a x4 crit. Assuming that you had monkey grip and the EWP for it, you would suffer a -2 penalty on your attack rolls with it. All in all, not a bad tradeoff.

(you were probly aware of that second part, but I just wanted to make sure ;)
Cellidin
01-27-05, 12:00 PM I was *smirk* :)
John Q. Mayhem
01-27-05, 01:10 PM Another thing everyone probably already knows, but Monkey Gripping a large greatsword isn't as strong as Power Attacking for 2 (-2/+1d6 vs. -2/+4).

Nothing beats the coolness of EWP (bastard sword), Monkey Grip, and a Large bastard sword. Average damage jumps from 5.5 to 9, which is about right for 2 feats (except for the -2 penalty).
oneday
01-27-05, 01:29 PM It's not the size of your weapon, it's how you use it. (Sorry, it had to be said)
Cellidin
01-27-05, 01:46 PM Another thing everyone probably already knows, but Monkey Gripping a large greatsword isn't as strong as Power Attacking for 2 (-2/+1d6 vs. -2/+4).

Nothing beats the coolness of EWP (bastard sword), Monkey Grip, and a Large bastard sword. Average damage jumps from 5.5 to 9, which is about right for 2 feats (except for the -2 penalty).

explain further :p (tired)
Dunelord
02-09-05, 11:50 PM Another thing everyone probably already knows, but Monkey Gripping a large greatsword isn't as strong as Power Attacking for 2 (-2/+1d6 vs. -2/+4).

Nothing beats the coolness of EWP (bastard sword), Monkey Grip, and a Large bastard sword. Average damage jumps from 5.5 to 9, which is about right for 2 feats (except for the -2 penalty).

As to the coolness that is a matter of taste, but the most damage he is a large great sword has an average of 10.5 with a -2 if you have Monkey Grip out of complte warrior. You can also just use the other feat for a +1 (weapon focus) which would cut down on your problems form the -2.

Well, the fullblade is somewhere between medium and large. It's not large, which is why you can use it without any penalties with exotic weapon pro. and monkey grip in 3.0. Thats why I think it could be used with -2 in 3.5

It is 3.0 and just don't fit in 3.5 IMO.
Ancient Wyrm
02-09-05, 11:58 PM In 3.5 the fullblade is just a Large bastard sword. 2d8/19-20 is exactly right.

I was under the impression that you couldn't use two-handed weapons larger than yourself without Monkey Grip, due to aforementioned increase in difficulty: light goes to one-handed, and one-handed goes to two-handed, but two-handed goes to impossible.

EDIT: Oh, someone mentioned that second part already.
KmartKommando
02-19-05, 11:07 PM Actually, in 3.5 you can't use a 2 handed weapon of a size larger than you without the feat, Wield Oversized Weapon. Monkey Grip just lets you use a 2 handed weapon of your size in 1 hand.
TinManFan
02-19-05, 11:11 PM If you want oversized wackiness, play a Half Giant form Psionics Handbook 3.5. They count as large creatures and they're allowed to use weapons one size catagory larger than their own. I know, it's broken and more than likely a typo but who freakin cares?
mercurywyrm
02-20-05, 12:15 AM Actually, in 3.5 you can't use a 2 handed weapon of a size larger than you without the feat, Wield Oversized Weapon. Monkey Grip just lets you use a 2 handed weapon of your size in 1 hand.
Nope, monkey grip lets you weild a weapon the size category bigger than you as if it was your size category still at the -2 penalty but unlike normal you don't have to increase it's category allong the light<one handed<two handed setup. Weild Oversized Weapon is for weapons more than one size category bigger which normally you can't weild at all just like weilding a two handed weapon for a size category bigger than you normally. Ancient Wyrm who posted before you was right. Read the rules KmartK, you are thinking 3.0 monkey grip, 3.5 monkey grip is in CW, and it works very differently. Allthough there is no fullblade in 3.5 unless it came out in a Dragon or Dungeon issue or some 3rd party I don't know of.

My reccomendation, use a large sized greatsword(two haded weapon) it will deal 2d8 19-20/x2 via the monkey grip feat. If you can't take monkey grip yet use a normal greatsword untill you can afford the bigger one. Personally, I would just stick with the normal sized greatsword, why? Beacause the adverage damage increase of two isn't good enough to make up for the -2 to hit, expecially compared to power attack with a THW, which will give you +4 damage for -2 to hit. Greatsword is BIG, certainly big enough for making your character impressive, who cares if the ogre weilds a bigger one, you will probably do more adverage damage with the normal sized one and it saves you a feat. For more damage get the Collision psionic enhancement, it gives you +5 damage, if you don't plan on taking improved critical get your weapon keen, and make sure it has ghost touch, for the last bit of enhancement I pefer to add a bane aspect to a certain type of enemy, with rogues I often pick an enemy immune to sneak attacks, such as constructs, undead, oozes, or plant creatures, but for a fighter type I would probably pick something particularly nasty which has a lot of hit points and you want to take down quick like dragons or monsterous humaniods. Make sure to have the weapon made of adamantine too! ;)
Ancient Wyrm
02-20-05, 12:45 AM My reccomendation, use a large sized greatsword(two haded weapon) it will deal 2d8 19-20/x2 via the monkey grip feat.

That would be 3d6. 2d8's for a Large bastard sword now.
Wexquif
02-21-05, 12:06 AM Thanks for clearing up Monkey Grip for me (I don't see why I didn't get it before). I will diffently make a human NPC with a large greatsword.
Gunrock
02-21-05, 12:25 AM Can't be done. You can't use a 2-Handed weapon if it's sized for something bigger than you. A Halfling can never, ever, weild a human-sized Greatsword. Neither can your human Fighter use an Ogre-sized Greatsword. It can't be done.

You CAN use TWF and Over-sized TWF to use a Large longsword in one hand and a regular longsword in the other at a -4 to all attacks (2d6 + Str and 1d8 + 1/2 Str)
Lavis Knight
02-21-05, 12:31 AM Take Monkey grip for the -2 and offset it with a level in Kensai and weapon focus.

-Lavis
Dunelord
02-25-05, 01:33 PM Can't be done. You can't use a 2-Handed weapon if it's sized for something bigger than you. A Halfling can never, ever, weild a human-sized Greatsword. Neither can your human Fighter use an Ogre-sized Greatsword. It can't be done.

You CAN use TWF and Over-sized TWF to use a Large longsword in one hand and a regular longsword in the other at a -4 to all attacks (2d6 + Str and 1d8 + 1/2 Str)

It (weilding a two handed weapon sized for a creature one size larger then you) can be done with the 3.5 version of Monkey Grip found in CW.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Cellidin 01-27-05, 10:10 AM	Hey, I'm creating a fighter, and I'm thinking about letting him use a large greatsword. So he'd be dealing 3d6 instead of 2d6. What's the minimum penalty he'd get and which feats would he have to choose? Exotic Weapon Pro. Monkey Grip Any others?
Wargamer 01-27-05, 10:15 AM	I think you get a -4 To Hit penalty for using weapons that are too big for you...
Cellidin 01-27-05, 10:50 AM	no way to reduce it? Is it on to hit and dmg or just to hit?
Jell_Moo 01-27-05, 10:58 AM	There is a feat in Complete Warrior called Monkey Grip which will reduce the penalty to hit to -2. The penalty is just to hit.
Cellidin 01-27-05, 11:06 AM	So in theory, if i take exotic weapon pro, Take a fullblade or a merculier greatsword. I can either have 3d8 or a 3d6 weapon with a x4 multiplier on criticals, with only a -2 penalty? smirks
Jell_Moo 01-27-05, 11:18 AM	Well, that would be combining a 3e weapon and a 3.5 feat, something I am uncertain would work given the way that weapon sizes/rules changed in 3.5. If your DM would allow this, then yeah, I suppose, but I certainly could see why he wouldn't.
Dunelord 01-27-05, 11:28 AM	So in theory, if i take exotic weapon pro, Take a fullblade or a merculier greatsword. I can either have 3d8 or a 3d6 weapon with a x4 multiplier on criticals, with only a -2 penalty? smirks The fullblade don't work man. The full blade was a weapon sized for large creatures in 3.0, in 3.5 it's done away with since it's a large creature uses (most times) a greatsword sized for them. I don't see why you couldn't use a mercural greatsword sized for a large creature if you had Monkey Grip, with the -2.
Cellidin 01-27-05, 11:35 AM	Well, the fullblade is somewhere between medium and large. It's not large, which is why you can use it without any penalties with exotic weapon pro. and monkey grip in 3.0. Thats why I think it could be used with -2 in 3.5
Knarfy 01-27-05, 11:38 AM	Just a few things to remember: 1) anyone can use weapons made for larger creatures than themselves at a -2 penalty per size difference. The problem is that for each size step up (more or less) the difficulty of using the weapon increases by one step. (aka, from light to one hand to two hand to cant) So anyone with shortsword proficiency could theoretically use a huge shortsword, which (for a medium creature) would deal 2d6 points of damage. However, they would take a -6 penalty to attacks, because the grip is a foot wide :P Monkey grip allows you to wield weapons one size larger without the commensurate increase in difficulty. (so a large shortsword is still a light weapon, rather than a one handed weapon) 2) The mercurial greatsword only deals 2d6 damage, with a x4 crit. It says otherwise in sword and fist, but go read the errata. A large mercurial greatsword would deal 3d6 and have a x4 crit. Assuming that you had monkey grip and the EWP for it, you would suffer a -2 penalty on your attack rolls with it. All in all, not a bad tradeoff. (you were probly aware of that second part, but I just wanted to make sure ;)
Cellidin 01-27-05, 12:00 PM	I was smirk :)
John Q. Mayhem 01-27-05, 01:10 PM	Another thing everyone probably already knows, but Monkey Gripping a large greatsword isn't as strong as Power Attacking for 2 (-2/+1d6 vs. -2/+4). Nothing beats the coolness of EWP (bastard sword), Monkey Grip, and a Large bastard sword. Average damage jumps from 5.5 to 9, which is about right for 2 feats (except for the -2 penalty).
oneday 01-27-05, 01:29 PM	It's not the size of your weapon, it's how you use it. (Sorry, it had to be said)
Cellidin 01-27-05, 01:46 PM	Another thing everyone probably already knows, but Monkey Gripping a large greatsword isn't as strong as Power Attacking for 2 (-2/+1d6 vs. -2/+4). Nothing beats the coolness of EWP (bastard sword), Monkey Grip, and a Large bastard sword. Average damage jumps from 5.5 to 9, which is about right for 2 feats (except for the -2 penalty). explain further :p (tired)
Dunelord 02-09-05, 11:50 PM	Another thing everyone probably already knows, but Monkey Gripping a large greatsword isn't as strong as Power Attacking for 2 (-2/+1d6 vs. -2/+4). Nothing beats the coolness of EWP (bastard sword), Monkey Grip, and a Large bastard sword. Average damage jumps from 5.5 to 9, which is about right for 2 feats (except for the -2 penalty). As to the coolness that is a matter of taste, but the most damage he is a large great sword has an average of 10.5 with a -2 if you have Monkey Grip out of complte warrior. You can also just use the other feat for a +1 (weapon focus) which would cut down on your problems form the -2. Well, the fullblade is somewhere between medium and large. It's not large, which is why you can use it without any penalties with exotic weapon pro. and monkey grip in 3.0. Thats why I think it could be used with -2 in 3.5 It is 3.0 and just don't fit in 3.5 IMO.
Ancient Wyrm 02-09-05, 11:58 PM	In 3.5 the fullblade is just a Large bastard sword. 2d8/19-20 is exactly right. I was under the impression that you couldn't use two-handed weapons larger than yourself without Monkey Grip, due to aforementioned increase in difficulty: light goes to one-handed, and one-handed goes to two-handed, but two-handed goes to impossible. EDIT: Oh, someone mentioned that second part already.
KmartKommando 02-19-05, 11:07 PM	Actually, in 3.5 you can't use a 2 handed weapon of a size larger than you without the feat, Wield Oversized Weapon. Monkey Grip just lets you use a 2 handed weapon of your size in 1 hand.
TinManFan 02-19-05, 11:11 PM	If you want oversized wackiness, play a Half Giant form Psionics Handbook 3.5. They count as large creatures and they're allowed to use weapons one size catagory larger than their own. I know, it's broken and more than likely a typo but who freakin cares?
mercurywyrm 02-20-05, 12:15 AM	Actually, in 3.5 you can't use a 2 handed weapon of a size larger than you without the feat, Wield Oversized Weapon. Monkey Grip just lets you use a 2 handed weapon of your size in 1 hand. Nope, monkey grip lets you weild a weapon the size category bigger than you as if it was your size category still at the -2 penalty but unlike normal you don't have to increase it's category allong the light<one handed<two handed setup. Weild Oversized Weapon is for weapons more than one size category bigger which normally you can't weild at all just like weilding a two handed weapon for a size category bigger than you normally. Ancient Wyrm who posted before you was right. Read the rules KmartK, you are thinking 3.0 monkey grip, 3.5 monkey grip is in CW, and it works very differently. Allthough there is no fullblade in 3.5 unless it came out in a Dragon or Dungeon issue or some 3rd party I don't know of. My reccomendation, use a large sized greatsword(two haded weapon) it will deal 2d8 19-20/x2 via the monkey grip feat. If you can't take monkey grip yet use a normal greatsword untill you can afford the bigger one. Personally, I would just stick with the normal sized greatsword, why? Beacause the adverage damage increase of two isn't good enough to make up for the -2 to hit, expecially compared to power attack with a THW, which will give you +4 damage for -2 to hit. Greatsword is BIG, certainly big enough for making your character impressive, who cares if the ogre weilds a bigger one, you will probably do more adverage damage with the normal sized one and it saves you a feat. For more damage get the Collision psionic enhancement, it gives you +5 damage, if you don't plan on taking improved critical get your weapon keen, and make sure it has ghost touch, for the last bit of enhancement I pefer to add a bane aspect to a certain type of enemy, with rogues I often pick an enemy immune to sneak attacks, such as constructs, undead, oozes, or plant creatures, but for a fighter type I would probably pick something particularly nasty which has a lot of hit points and you want to take down quick like dragons or monsterous humaniods. Make sure to have the weapon made of adamantine too! ;)
Ancient Wyrm 02-20-05, 12:45 AM	My reccomendation, use a large sized greatsword(two haded weapon) it will deal 2d8 19-20/x2 via the monkey grip feat. That would be 3d6. 2d8's for a Large bastard sword now.
Wexquif 02-21-05, 12:06 AM	Thanks for clearing up Monkey Grip for me (I don't see why I didn't get it before). I will diffently make a human NPC with a large greatsword.
Gunrock 02-21-05, 12:25 AM	Can't be done. You can't use a 2-Handed weapon if it's sized for something bigger than you. A Halfling can never, ever, weild a human-sized Greatsword. Neither can your human Fighter use an Ogre-sized Greatsword. It can't be done. You CAN use TWF and Over-sized TWF to use a Large longsword in one hand and a regular longsword in the other at a -4 to all attacks (2d6 + Str and 1d8 + 1/2 Str)
Lavis Knight 02-21-05, 12:31 AM	Take Monkey grip for the -2 and offset it with a level in Kensai and weapon focus. -Lavis
Dunelord 02-25-05, 01:33 PM	Can't be done. You can't use a 2-Handed weapon if it's sized for something bigger than you. A Halfling can never, ever, weild a human-sized Greatsword. Neither can your human Fighter use an Ogre-sized Greatsword. It can't be done. You CAN use TWF and Over-sized TWF to use a Large longsword in one hand and a regular longsword in the other at a -4 to all attacks (2d6 + Str and 1d8 + 1/2 Str) It (weilding a two handed weapon sized for a creature one size larger then you) can be done with the 3.5 version of Monkey Grip found in CW.