A good Blackgaurd? [Archive] - Wizards Community

A good Blackgaurd? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Zac789
11-17-06, 10:40 PM Hola! I'm new here, so please be gentle.
I am about to start a new game. In it, I will be playing a Paladin. The thing about him is he wants his opponents to surrender, not be killed. Other then the obvious (take improved sunder), got any tips on how to build him to be both effective and durable? My Dm is willing to work with me to customize the class and is letting me dump the horse if I can find a reasonable substitution.
Kresalak
11-17-06, 10:50 PM A Merciful weapon. Sure, they won't surrender, but they'll live. Nasty headaches when they wake up, though.
Krevon
11-17-06, 11:21 PM Disarm and grapple, heh smite attack with a sap lol! Use a net and a spear.
NyMpHoMaNiAc_FaNtAsIA
11-17-06, 11:31 PM Use a net and a spear.

A net and a spear would definitely win style / cool points.
There is net and trident style feat in complete warrior that you could use or get ideas from, for your build.
enygmatic_me
11-17-06, 11:33 PM Play a Favored Soul instead and rely on binding type magics?
Zac789
11-18-06, 11:01 AM A net and a spear would definitely win style / cool points.
There is net and trident style feat in complete warrior that you could use or get ideas from, for your build.

I was actually thinking about taking a mace. Is there a two handed mace in any of the books. The idea of a pacifist Paladin with a huge mace is just too funny to me to pass up.
Garonak
11-18-06, 12:04 PM You got the Warmace from Complete Warrior, exotic one handed, 1d12 x2, gives you -1 AC though, since it's so big, think you can wield it in two hands as a martial weapon. Or you could just ask you're dm if it's ok to use a Large Heavy Mace.
Licínio Miranda
11-18-06, 02:18 PM Just by curiosity: what about the title of this thread? Is there anything related?
Zac789
11-18-06, 03:47 PM Just by curiosity: what about the title of this thread? Is there anything related?

Prolly not. The only experience I have had with the class of black gaurd was one used against me. When I latter asked the DM about him, his discription was brief. He said it was basically an evil paladin type who focused on sundering weapons. I like the idea, but not the alignment. So, that the only relevience the class has in this thread.
The_Shaman
11-18-06, 04:28 PM A paladin with a merciful weapon is fine, otherwise you have some other, exotic options:

- Paladin/monk (with or without the ascetic knight feat) or another character who is a master of unarmed fighting: Shou Disciple and the Reaping Mauler from CW come to mind here, but any other monk PrC you can get into works - if you don't mind giving up the armor. Unarmed damage can always be non-lethal without penalties (ok, almost always - claws etc. are an exception). Alternatively, you can just grapple them and either overpower them yourself or have an ally ties take care of them. When you are grappling both of you lose your dexterity bonus, and hence are eligible for sneak attack - so a rogue with a sap or just unarmed strike (say a kick in the groin) can also work Btw, any grappler build, especially one that uses unarmed fighting, benefits a lot from the knifefighter feat. It's from the 3.5 Guide to Faerun and lets you do a full attack with a light weapon in a grapple. If the said weapon is merciful, or doesn't do lethal damage per se, this means that you can easily overpower someone.
- Paladin who relies on non-lethal damage and does it without penalties: Justiciar is the obvious choice here, and quite probably the best PrC for a paladin who really wants to be a master of capturing people alive. Hog-tie, free improved grapple, non-lethal strike are all things that would make your character very good at subduing people without too much harm. You could, however, also go for bloodhound, but it's more oriented towards tracking people.
- Paladin who relies on ability damage to drop his enemies unconscious. The Bloodhound gets that via crippling blow, and the Justiciar gets something similar for his "sneak attacks", but a paladin could simply get a weakening weapon, as detailed in the Shining South book. Basically it's a +3 enchantment that makes the weapon drain 2 strength with every hit, which is equivalent to the crippling blow ability. I don't know if they stack, though. There is, of course, another way to get someone to 0 in an ability score - a paladin with a somewhat lenient code of conduct could simply use a poison that does not decrease constitution, and hence can't kill. It's not exactly valorous, but it will definitely help you avoid killine people. I think Drow knockout poison was generally accepted anyway. The embarassing part is that you have to make sure you don't get poisoned.

- A paladin can get weapon proficiency with a bola, lasso, or any other non-lethal weapon. The blackjack from Arms and Equipment guide is essentially a bigger sap, and does iirc 1d8 non-lethal damage. The first two weapons, by the way, are exotic, so you can go to EWM and get specialized trip and disarm abilities with them. Essentially, once they're down and you have a sword to their throat, there's a good chance they will give up. That depends on the DM, however.

Of course, you can simply be the kind of paladin that maxes diplomacy and around lvl 10 can persuade an erinyes to start cleaning the dishes in a convent and spent the rest of the time in quiet meditation.
philnicau
11-18-06, 05:55 PM My Dm is willing to work with me to customize the class and is letting me dump the horse if I can find a reasonable substitution.

In the PHB2 (pg 53) there is a substitution on the Paladin, who doesn't gain his mount.
The_Shaman
11-18-06, 06:03 PM Prolly not. The only experience I have had with the class of black gaurd was one used against me. When I latter asked the DM about him, his discription was brief. He said it was basically an evil paladin type who focused on sundering weapons. I like the idea, but not the alignment. So, that the only relevience the class has in this thread.

Focused on sundering? The blackguard requires the I. Sunder feat as a prerequisite for entering the class, but iirc has no other related powers. It's class features are basically more like an inverted paladin - smite good, fiendish servants, etc. Anyway, what books can you use?
journeyman777
11-18-06, 08:55 PM Try picking up some charisma based feats. Daunting Presence (LM), Kiai Shout (CW), Greater Kiai Shout (CW), and Intimidating Strike (CW) are good ways to push enemies into the frightened or panicked state. If someone can prevent them from running (a good job for the party spellcasters), they will be forced to cower. At that point, they should accept any terms of surrender you offer.
belthazzar1113
11-18-06, 09:37 PM mercey weapons and if your dm is cool with it vow of peace / non violence. you probly only want the first one and not the second. the first lets you do subdual damage the second means you can't do any damage of any kind, but they are good for where you are going as long as your willing to play the whole "its against my code to kill"

you can trade in the horse for charging smite, i know thats in a book, we also allowed the pally mount to be traded in for a page. basically a single cohort ala leadership (without followers)

you can also go for some interesting choices, with a little outside the box thinking you could be a Bloodhound or a justicar, or even a kensi with a mercyful weapon would be a seriosly scarey bounty hunter.
Zac789
11-21-06, 06:12 PM We've already been informed it will be a relatively low magic world. The idea of cherry picking or buying magic items is a definite no-go. Either way, you guys have given me some good ideas of where to start. Thanks

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Zac789 11-17-06, 10:40 PM	Hola! I'm new here, so please be gentle. I am about to start a new game. In it, I will be playing a Paladin. The thing about him is he wants his opponents to surrender, not be killed. Other then the obvious (take improved sunder), got any tips on how to build him to be both effective and durable? My Dm is willing to work with me to customize the class and is letting me dump the horse if I can find a reasonable substitution.
Kresalak 11-17-06, 10:50 PM	A Merciful weapon. Sure, they won't surrender, but they'll live. Nasty headaches when they wake up, though.
Krevon 11-17-06, 11:21 PM	Disarm and grapple, heh smite attack with a sap lol! Use a net and a spear.
NyMpHoMaNiAc_FaNtAsIA 11-17-06, 11:31 PM	Use a net and a spear. A net and a spear would definitely win style / cool points. There is net and trident style feat in complete warrior that you could use or get ideas from, for your build.
enygmatic_me 11-17-06, 11:33 PM	Play a Favored Soul instead and rely on binding type magics?
Zac789 11-18-06, 11:01 AM	A net and a spear would definitely win style / cool points. There is net and trident style feat in complete warrior that you could use or get ideas from, for your build. I was actually thinking about taking a mace. Is there a two handed mace in any of the books. The idea of a pacifist Paladin with a huge mace is just too funny to me to pass up.
Garonak 11-18-06, 12:04 PM	You got the Warmace from Complete Warrior, exotic one handed, 1d12 x2, gives you -1 AC though, since it's so big, think you can wield it in two hands as a martial weapon. Or you could just ask you're dm if it's ok to use a Large Heavy Mace.
Licínio Miranda 11-18-06, 02:18 PM	Just by curiosity: what about the title of this thread? Is there anything related?
Zac789 11-18-06, 03:47 PM	Just by curiosity: what about the title of this thread? Is there anything related? Prolly not. The only experience I have had with the class of black gaurd was one used against me. When I latter asked the DM about him, his discription was brief. He said it was basically an evil paladin type who focused on sundering weapons. I like the idea, but not the alignment. So, that the only relevience the class has in this thread.
The_Shaman 11-18-06, 04:28 PM	A paladin with a merciful weapon is fine, otherwise you have some other, exotic options: - Paladin/monk (with or without the ascetic knight feat) or another character who is a master of unarmed fighting: Shou Disciple and the Reaping Mauler from CW come to mind here, but any other monk PrC you can get into works - if you don't mind giving up the armor. Unarmed damage can always be non-lethal without penalties (ok, almost always - claws etc. are an exception). Alternatively, you can just grapple them and either overpower them yourself or have an ally ties take care of them. When you are grappling both of you lose your dexterity bonus, and hence are eligible for sneak attack - so a rogue with a sap or just unarmed strike (say a kick in the groin) can also work Btw, any grappler build, especially one that uses unarmed fighting, benefits a lot from the knifefighter feat. It's from the 3.5 Guide to Faerun and lets you do a full attack with a light weapon in a grapple. If the said weapon is merciful, or doesn't do lethal damage per se, this means that you can easily overpower someone. - Paladin who relies on non-lethal damage and does it without penalties: Justiciar is the obvious choice here, and quite probably the best PrC for a paladin who really wants to be a master of capturing people alive. Hog-tie, free improved grapple, non-lethal strike are all things that would make your character very good at subduing people without too much harm. You could, however, also go for bloodhound, but it's more oriented towards tracking people. - Paladin who relies on ability damage to drop his enemies unconscious. The Bloodhound gets that via crippling blow, and the Justiciar gets something similar for his "sneak attacks", but a paladin could simply get a weakening weapon, as detailed in the Shining South book. Basically it's a +3 enchantment that makes the weapon drain 2 strength with every hit, which is equivalent to the crippling blow ability. I don't know if they stack, though. There is, of course, another way to get someone to 0 in an ability score - a paladin with a somewhat lenient code of conduct could simply use a poison that does not decrease constitution, and hence can't kill. It's not exactly valorous, but it will definitely help you avoid killine people. I think Drow knockout poison was generally accepted anyway. The embarassing part is that you have to make sure you don't get poisoned. - A paladin can get weapon proficiency with a bola, lasso, or any other non-lethal weapon. The blackjack from Arms and Equipment guide is essentially a bigger sap, and does iirc 1d8 non-lethal damage. The first two weapons, by the way, are exotic, so you can go to EWM and get specialized trip and disarm abilities with them. Essentially, once they're down and you have a sword to their throat, there's a good chance they will give up. That depends on the DM, however. Of course, you can simply be the kind of paladin that maxes diplomacy and around lvl 10 can persuade an erinyes to start cleaning the dishes in a convent and spent the rest of the time in quiet meditation.
philnicau 11-18-06, 05:55 PM	My Dm is willing to work with me to customize the class and is letting me dump the horse if I can find a reasonable substitution. In the PHB2 (pg 53) there is a substitution on the Paladin, who doesn't gain his mount.
The_Shaman 11-18-06, 06:03 PM	Prolly not. The only experience I have had with the class of black gaurd was one used against me. When I latter asked the DM about him, his discription was brief. He said it was basically an evil paladin type who focused on sundering weapons. I like the idea, but not the alignment. So, that the only relevience the class has in this thread. Focused on sundering? The blackguard requires the I. Sunder feat as a prerequisite for entering the class, but iirc has no other related powers. It's class features are basically more like an inverted paladin - smite good, fiendish servants, etc. Anyway, what books can you use?
journeyman777 11-18-06, 08:55 PM	Try picking up some charisma based feats. Daunting Presence (LM), Kiai Shout (CW), Greater Kiai Shout (CW), and Intimidating Strike (CW) are good ways to push enemies into the frightened or panicked state. If someone can prevent them from running (a good job for the party spellcasters), they will be forced to cower. At that point, they should accept any terms of surrender you offer.
belthazzar1113 11-18-06, 09:37 PM	mercey weapons and if your dm is cool with it vow of peace / non violence. you probly only want the first one and not the second. the first lets you do subdual damage the second means you can't do any damage of any kind, but they are good for where you are going as long as your willing to play the whole "its against my code to kill" you can trade in the horse for charging smite, i know thats in a book, we also allowed the pally mount to be traded in for a page. basically a single cohort ala leadership (without followers) you can also go for some interesting choices, with a little outside the box thinking you could be a Bloodhound or a justicar, or even a kensi with a mercyful weapon would be a seriosly scarey bounty hunter.
Zac789 11-21-06, 06:12 PM	We've already been informed it will be a relatively low magic world. The idea of cherry picking or buying magic items is a definite no-go. Either way, you guys have given me some good ideas of where to start. Thanks