A less "mystical" more combat-oriented Monk [Archive] - Wizards Community

A less "mystical" more combat-oriented Monk [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Kevtar
08-16-05, 11:32 AM Hi all,

Has anyone tried to design a less-mystical more combat-focused Monk? I am interested in having a class that is about training/perfecting the body and ways of attacking/defending using the body.

I'm working on a Monk variation where I have removed things like slow fall, SR, Still Mind, etc... but have kept things like purity of body, diamond body, etc...

In addition, in order to help recover some of the more "metaphysical" features of the Monk, I have opted to include combat-oriented bonus feats for the class. Here is what I have so far:

http://home.woh.rr.com/kevtar/New%20Monk.mht

Since this is a work in progress, I would appreciate any suggestions you all may have.

*Note: at lvl 20 the "perfect self" feature is only comprised of the DR/10 Magic and not the normal Monk description.

Thanks.
Nephlite
08-16-05, 12:31 PM The Pugilist Base class I made is like a combat monk. Though it isn't a Monk and Unarmed strike stays 2 sizes higher (1d3 becomes 1d6) and doesn't increase.

I decided not to copy monk and make up my own abilities.

So what do you mean by attacking/defending body?

Monk with no flurry and Full Bab?
Journeyman Samwise
08-16-05, 12:39 PM The Pugilist Base class I made is like a combat monk. Though it isn't a Monk and Unarmed strike stays 2 sizes higher (1d3 becomes 1d6) and doesn't increase.

I decided not to copy monk and make up my own abilities.

So what do you mean by attacking/defending body?

Monk with no flurry and Full Bab?

You named your class Pugilist, too? Aw, man.

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=482110

So did I. :( Though, I'm still tweaking it and making it not-crap.
Dhar Sedai
08-16-05, 12:43 PM I would Advise you to make the Site readable before sending it off to be rated by others...
It isn't working in Mozilla, and it ain't working as a Html document...
Duration_10_Rounds
08-16-05, 12:46 PM I admire you aprouch to nix the monks "Mystical" powers. I too find it just doesn't fit niceley into D&D.
One problem with your class regarding its aims is: How do explain away all that unarmed damage?
2D10 has to be magical or mystical is some way?

I have made a monk/fighter replacment my self:
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=476841
It does 1d8 maximum with its bare hands but im considering dropping this as its just so hard to justify Longdsword (or better) damage from natural attacks from a core player race.

My Martial Artist uses "moves" (a new system of learning combat powers) that focus on training and technique. He doesnt even have a way to bypass DR... but what he does do is use his moves to control the flow of combat. He has good combat mobility, abilities that hinder or control a foes positioning and movement, debuff initative, knockdown, stop spell casting(a simple winding punch to belly does the trick), make himself hard to hit or shrug of damage by force of will and training.
He can be customised to be a big brute of a combatant or a nimble kung-fu master and can also employ arms and armour at the detriment of his available fighting styles.

But keep on trucking with your own monk its shaping up well.... the less mystical monks around the better for those of us who dont run games deep in mystasim and eastern fantasy.
but i have to say the likes of Quivering palm and various TOTAL imunities (like poison and the like) and the spell resistance do smack of mystasism....
How about some "homebrew" abilities to take thier place.... you will proabably find some abilities you make your self could help off-set the damage needing to be so high to compeate with the mystic monk.
Pojo
08-16-05, 12:47 PM Yah, couldn't read a thing.
Duration_10_Rounds
08-16-05, 12:49 PM Yah, couldn't read a thing.
You have to use ....*shudder* IE :noway:
Kevtar
08-16-05, 02:55 PM Yes, my apologies... but I forgot my audience and didn't make the file Mozilla compatible. Unfortunately, I'm not as tech-savvy as I should be.

As far as the "attack/defense" using the body aspect of the variation, I mean that I want the class to rely on hand-to-hand combat. If there are to be special features of the class, I would like them to refer specifically to physiological enhancements.

In this sense, I think flurry of blows still qualifies since it can be attained through physical training. I don't think a full BAB is appropriate though because of the flurry ability and the damage output.

To answer the previous question regarding damage output, I still think 2d10 or 1d20 can be achieved through non-magical means. I would rationalize this damage as a product of physical training and the wisdom gained through a lifetime of martial combat.
Duration_10_Rounds
08-16-05, 03:16 PM I would rationalize this damage as a product of physical training and the wisdom gained through a lifetime of martial combat.

Doesnt work for me personaly your reasoning that a fist could do over double the damage of a Katana's keen edge or a Falcata's brutal chop..
A well build Falcata can cleave a plate helm... you would never do that even in D&D grade fantasy with your bare hands(maybe in Anime but thats not D&D)... IMO... when you start reasoning like that you end up wandering back into the realms of mystical combat.
i.e The monk becomming "more than just a man".... just like the mystic monk.

But im not "the law", so pay me no heed.
Kevtar
08-16-05, 04:25 PM I've always been partial to the idea (and this is somewhat of a homebrewed interpretation) that damage incurred in a round is due to a series of attacks within six seconds and the "to hit" roll is a snapshot of the combat activity of that PC in the round. Iterative attacks could provide larger snapshots.

However, even though the player is rolling damage for that hit (or the series of hits), it could be representative of the damage incurred in the round as opposed to damage resulting solely from the "to hit" rolls.

From this perspective, 2d10 points of damage in a round could illustrate how the Kung Fu master has "the reflexes of a cat and the speed of a mongoose..." and, as a result can inflict massive amounts of damage even though we as players are only seeing the hits represented by the rolls of the dice.

Then again, I've been married for 15 years and can justify just about anything. ;)
Alvaric
08-16-05, 05:02 PM Hrm ... I guess it wouldn't be quite as fun, but wouldn't it just be easier to Shou Disciple/Streetfighter/Reaping Mauler it?
Duration_10_Rounds
08-16-05, 05:09 PM ;) i used to view combat in 2nd ed like but that since the introduction of a very complex combat rules in 3rd ed it seems to want to account for every single action you take at any given time so that went out the window for me.

For example the 2d10 might come from a flurry of blows.... but they have given us a rule to govern these flurry of blows... so for me, that idea was shot down in flames with 3rd ed.

3rd ed seems to want to disect combat blow for blow and for me that just doesnt work with these crazy unarmed damage numbers the monk throws around... especialy as he even has his own accelerated rate of unarmed attcks.

I think maybe why monks and monk-a-likes just dont work for me as this damage maybe supposed to reprisent more than one single blow in concept but D&D rules want to force it into a blow by blow descritption.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kevtar 08-16-05, 11:32 AM	Hi all, Has anyone tried to design a less-mystical more combat-focused Monk? I am interested in having a class that is about training/perfecting the body and ways of attacking/defending using the body. I'm working on a Monk variation where I have removed things like slow fall, SR, Still Mind, etc... but have kept things like purity of body, diamond body, etc... In addition, in order to help recover some of the more "metaphysical" features of the Monk, I have opted to include combat-oriented bonus feats for the class. Here is what I have so far: http://home.woh.rr.com/kevtar/New%20Monk.mht Since this is a work in progress, I would appreciate any suggestions you all may have. *Note: at lvl 20 the "perfect self" feature is only comprised of the DR/10 Magic and not the normal Monk description. Thanks.
Nephlite 08-16-05, 12:31 PM	The Pugilist Base class I made is like a combat monk. Though it isn't a Monk and Unarmed strike stays 2 sizes higher (1d3 becomes 1d6) and doesn't increase. I decided not to copy monk and make up my own abilities. So what do you mean by attacking/defending body? Monk with no flurry and Full Bab?
Journeyman Samwise 08-16-05, 12:39 PM	The Pugilist Base class I made is like a combat monk. Though it isn't a Monk and Unarmed strike stays 2 sizes higher (1d3 becomes 1d6) and doesn't increase. I decided not to copy monk and make up my own abilities. So what do you mean by attacking/defending body? Monk with no flurry and Full Bab? You named your class Pugilist, too? Aw, man. http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=482110 So did I. :( Though, I'm still tweaking it and making it not-crap.
Dhar Sedai 08-16-05, 12:43 PM	I would Advise you to make the Site readable before sending it off to be rated by others... It isn't working in Mozilla, and it ain't working as a Html document...
Duration_10_Rounds 08-16-05, 12:46 PM	I admire you aprouch to nix the monks "Mystical" powers. I too find it just doesn't fit niceley into D&D. One problem with your class regarding its aims is: How do explain away all that unarmed damage? 2D10 has to be magical or mystical is some way? I have made a monk/fighter replacment my self: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=476841 It does 1d8 maximum with its bare hands but im considering dropping this as its just so hard to justify Longdsword (or better) damage from natural attacks from a core player race. My Martial Artist uses "moves" (a new system of learning combat powers) that focus on training and technique. He doesnt even have a way to bypass DR... but what he does do is use his moves to control the flow of combat. He has good combat mobility, abilities that hinder or control a foes positioning and movement, debuff initative, knockdown, stop spell casting(a simple winding punch to belly does the trick), make himself hard to hit or shrug of damage by force of will and training. He can be customised to be a big brute of a combatant or a nimble kung-fu master and can also employ arms and armour at the detriment of his available fighting styles. But keep on trucking with your own monk its shaping up well.... the less mystical monks around the better for those of us who dont run games deep in mystasim and eastern fantasy. but i have to say the likes of Quivering palm and various TOTAL imunities (like poison and the like) and the spell resistance do smack of mystasism.... How about some "homebrew" abilities to take thier place.... you will proabably find some abilities you make your self could help off-set the damage needing to be so high to compeate with the mystic monk.
Pojo 08-16-05, 12:47 PM	Yah, couldn't read a thing.
Duration_10_Rounds 08-16-05, 12:49 PM	Yah, couldn't read a thing. You have to use ....shudder IE :noway:
Kevtar 08-16-05, 02:55 PM	Yes, my apologies... but I forgot my audience and didn't make the file Mozilla compatible. Unfortunately, I'm not as tech-savvy as I should be. As far as the "attack/defense" using the body aspect of the variation, I mean that I want the class to rely on hand-to-hand combat. If there are to be special features of the class, I would like them to refer specifically to physiological enhancements. In this sense, I think flurry of blows still qualifies since it can be attained through physical training. I don't think a full BAB is appropriate though because of the flurry ability and the damage output. To answer the previous question regarding damage output, I still think 2d10 or 1d20 can be achieved through non-magical means. I would rationalize this damage as a product of physical training and the wisdom gained through a lifetime of martial combat.
Duration_10_Rounds 08-16-05, 03:16 PM	I would rationalize this damage as a product of physical training and the wisdom gained through a lifetime of martial combat. Doesnt work for me personaly your reasoning that a fist could do over double the damage of a Katana's keen edge or a Falcata's brutal chop.. A well build Falcata can cleave a plate helm... you would never do that even in D&D grade fantasy with your bare hands(maybe in Anime but thats not D&D)... IMO... when you start reasoning like that you end up wandering back into the realms of mystical combat. i.e The monk becomming "more than just a man".... just like the mystic monk. But im not "the law", so pay me no heed.
Kevtar 08-16-05, 04:25 PM	I've always been partial to the idea (and this is somewhat of a homebrewed interpretation) that damage incurred in a round is due to a series of attacks within six seconds and the "to hit" roll is a snapshot of the combat activity of that PC in the round. Iterative attacks could provide larger snapshots. However, even though the player is rolling damage for that hit (or the series of hits), it could be representative of the damage incurred in the round as opposed to damage resulting solely from the "to hit" rolls. From this perspective, 2d10 points of damage in a round could illustrate how the Kung Fu master has "the reflexes of a cat and the speed of a mongoose..." and, as a result can inflict massive amounts of damage even though we as players are only seeing the hits represented by the rolls of the dice. Then again, I've been married for 15 years and can justify just about anything. ;)
Alvaric 08-16-05, 05:02 PM	Hrm ... I guess it wouldn't be quite as fun, but wouldn't it just be easier to Shou Disciple/Streetfighter/Reaping Mauler it?
Duration_10_Rounds 08-16-05, 05:09 PM	;) i used to view combat in 2nd ed like but that since the introduction of a very complex combat rules in 3rd ed it seems to want to account for every single action you take at any given time so that went out the window for me. For example the 2d10 might come from a flurry of blows.... but they have given us a rule to govern these flurry of blows... so for me, that idea was shot down in flames with 3rd ed. 3rd ed seems to want to disect combat blow for blow and for me that just doesnt work with these crazy unarmed damage numbers the monk throws around... especialy as he even has his own accelerated rate of unarmed attcks. I think maybe why monks and monk-a-likes just dont work for me as this damage maybe supposed to reprisent more than one single blow in concept but D&D rules want to force it into a blow by blow descritption.