A little help forming a Wizard [Archive] - Wizards Community

A little help forming a Wizard [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Tigron321
10-17-06, 01:32 AM I'm fairly new to the whole D&D thing. I've been playing for a few months now, I've played as a ranger, a soulknife, and now a ninja/shadowdancer, but IM looking to advance into the mage catagory, toward Wizard. I like alot of the summoning type spells i've found in different books. Complete Arcane, Players Handbook II and the like, and it seems you could make a pretty strong summoning based character. Could anyone lend some insight into this for me? What feats? What other spells I might take? Im thinking of making a Dragonborn from Races of the Dragon book. I have most books, but please, any help would be much appreciated.
MadMan
10-17-06, 03:33 AM If you already have a few levels in other classes, don't start taking any wizard levels. Keep progressing in your current classes. If anything, take a couple levels in fighter, because the classes you have aren't very tough HP wise, and lacks in base attack bonus and feats.

A Wizard/Sorcerer is a class you start off at 1st level with and don't look back til 15th or so. From my experience (18 yrs) mages are at their best when they are straight class. At higher levels they are almost too much, more powerful than most other PC's.

That's my opinion and I'll stick to it! :)
Chimaera2000
10-17-06, 03:50 AM Some obvious feats from the Player's Handbook are Spell Focus (Conjuration) and Augment Summoning (the first as a prerequisite for the second). The Imbued Summoning feat from Player's Handbook II allows you to apply a spell to a summoned creature with no casting time required. The Cloudy Conjuration feat from Complete Mage provides a summoned creature with concealment and sickens or fatigues (can't remember which) nearby creatures for one round. The Summon Elemental feat (also from Complete Mage) might be up your alley; summoning elementals at will might fit your character concept.

If you're looking to be a powerful summoner, you could also go with druid. It may or may not fit your character concept, but their summon nature's ally spells are often superior to summoned monsters, plus they can cast these spells spontaneously.
Aramil219
10-17-06, 03:57 AM A Cleric with some elementel Domains and then PrCed into Thaumaturgist can make for a great roleplaying experience and also a powerful summoning build.
Tigron321
10-18-06, 02:08 PM Okay then, Here's another one. What would be better for a summoner? A Wizard or Sorcerer?
MadMan
10-18-06, 05:56 PM Okay then, Here's another one. What would be better for a summoner? A Wizard or Sorcerer?

A Druid. :D
Tigron321
10-18-06, 06:22 PM That's not what I asked, but... Im going to make a Dragonborn Sorcerer, based on summoning. Now are the choices in the PH the only familliars one could have? Or are there others? Or is it more or less up to the DM?
MadMan
10-18-06, 08:35 PM That's not what I asked, but... Im going to make a Dragonborn Sorcerer, based on summoning. Now are the choices in the PH the only familliars one could have? Or are there others? Or is it more or less up to the DM?

I know, but a Druid makes for a great summoner due to some boost spells they get. However there are many feats you can take for any spellcaster class to improve summoning. As for familiars, again there are feats that can get you better ones, and it can be up to the GM,, he may give you something that goes along with your campaign, but might be a little to tough, or he may just tell you to pick from the (crap) list. A good feat to take summoning is Extend Spell, which keeps the summoned creatures twice as long, not usually a problem at higher levels.
Tigron321
10-19-06, 12:00 AM Theres a feat in one of my other books that makes summons last twice as long, I forget what its called though. Any help on Summoning spells themselves though? Besides the obvious Summon Monster ones. I've found a few others, Luminous Assassin in the PH2, and a few others in that book. I don't have Complete Mage yet, Im sure there's some in there too.
MadMan
10-19-06, 01:10 AM Just regular summon spells. If you have the minis to go on the table it adds to huge effect. A campaign I recently played in we had a druid who would summon 3-5 Dire Bears as our meat shields and they did a heck of a job. Large Elementals work great as well. There is a high level (8-9 I think) spell called Elemental Swarm. You should read it. It's crazy. :D There are also spells in different books which add to the creatures such as a spell called Natures Favour, or something like that, which gives target creature +1 to hit and dmg. every 2 caster levels. It doesn't have a max., but like most spells it should have. It being a 2nd level spell should be maximized at +5. The Druid in our campaign for a while was giving his beast companion +9 to hit and damage. The Druids companion and summoned creatures won us most battles, as I was the Mage of the group and barely ever got hit in melee. :) Keep lookin' at spells, you'll find all kinds of booster stuff. Spellcasters are now my fav. classes. Enjoy!
Tigron321
10-19-06, 09:16 PM Hm. So summoning wise, Druids are better? How so though? They get Summon Nature's Ally. I've seen that, but if you look in a bunch of different books, there are summons like... summon aspect of bahamut. Summon elemental monolith. Luminos Assassin, from PH2, there are a bunch of others too. I realize that the Nature's Ally is probabyl a good spell, coupled with a few others the druid can do, animate trees and stuff like that. Do they really have better spells? I've never done spell casting before, and IM intrested in summoning type and the like.
Fuzzy_Logic
10-19-06, 11:01 PM Druids win at summoning as a general combat tactic. Summon Nature's ally is a fine spell for pure beef, and they have a number of easy ways--

animal growth, greenbound, ashbound, etc.--

That allow animals ot be pumped into impressive melee machines.

However, I firmly believe that arcane casters are the best summoners. why? variety. Druids can, at low levels, pretty much only summon animals and elementals.

Clerics and Wizards can both cast summon monster, but a good cleric cannot summon evil creatures, while a good wizard can and frequently should.

Summoning spells are great tools for problem solving, both in and out of battle. A wizard or better yet sorcerer with summon monster available can overcome all kinds of obstacles. With lowish-level spells he can summon flying mounts, bats with blindesense to find hidden enemies, translators for a variety of langauges, aquatic minions, a fountain of temporary HP (lantern archon) and more.

High-level summoned creatures can heal, dispel magic, cast bard spells, produce walls of ice and force, see with "true seeing" and more.

Augment Summoning not only buffs the fighting monsters, it increases the DCs of some special attacks. For instance, achaierai have a CON-based insanity attack. Using a high-level spells to summon multiple achaierai is a rgeat attack--not many creatures can easily make repeatedly high-DC will saves.
MadMan
10-20-06, 01:40 AM I agree. Druids are good, but Wizards are good as well because of the variety they can summon. A Druid can exchange summon spells as a cleric does heal spells, a mage has to study the summon spells. After summoning creatures the Druid can turn himself into different cool things with the right feats (my buddy turned himself into the Garg. Black Dragon, he was 27th level, when we fought our last battle in our last campaign, vs. Orcus:D ) where a mage has to sit back and be a mage (unless he turns himself into something as well), still not a bad thing.

So it's all in what or how you wanna play it. Do you want a guy who gets up and fights with his creatures, or do you want to play the guy who stands back and throws spells? However with a mage, you start to become limited with your spells, as you don't wanna drop a fireball when it's gonna hit your own creatures. So, again, it's all what you feel like playing!

p.s. Let me know what you go with, I'm kinda curious now. :)
MadMan
10-20-06, 01:43 AM High-level summoned creatures can heal, dispel magic, cast bard spells, produce walls of ice and force, see with "true seeing" and more..

I used to summon Justice Archons with Quickened Teleport and jump us around into good fighting positions. :D Worked like a charm. However I was 18th or so at the time, and only took the summon spells because the Druid couldn't show. lol

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Tigron321 10-17-06, 01:32 AM	I'm fairly new to the whole D&D thing. I've been playing for a few months now, I've played as a ranger, a soulknife, and now a ninja/shadowdancer, but IM looking to advance into the mage catagory, toward Wizard. I like alot of the summoning type spells i've found in different books. Complete Arcane, Players Handbook II and the like, and it seems you could make a pretty strong summoning based character. Could anyone lend some insight into this for me? What feats? What other spells I might take? Im thinking of making a Dragonborn from Races of the Dragon book. I have most books, but please, any help would be much appreciated.
MadMan 10-17-06, 03:33 AM	If you already have a few levels in other classes, don't start taking any wizard levels. Keep progressing in your current classes. If anything, take a couple levels in fighter, because the classes you have aren't very tough HP wise, and lacks in base attack bonus and feats. A Wizard/Sorcerer is a class you start off at 1st level with and don't look back til 15th or so. From my experience (18 yrs) mages are at their best when they are straight class. At higher levels they are almost too much, more powerful than most other PC's. That's my opinion and I'll stick to it! :)
Chimaera2000 10-17-06, 03:50 AM	Some obvious feats from the Player's Handbook are Spell Focus (Conjuration) and Augment Summoning (the first as a prerequisite for the second). The Imbued Summoning feat from Player's Handbook II allows you to apply a spell to a summoned creature with no casting time required. The Cloudy Conjuration feat from Complete Mage provides a summoned creature with concealment and sickens or fatigues (can't remember which) nearby creatures for one round. The Summon Elemental feat (also from Complete Mage) might be up your alley; summoning elementals at will might fit your character concept. If you're looking to be a powerful summoner, you could also go with druid. It may or may not fit your character concept, but their summon nature's ally spells are often superior to summoned monsters, plus they can cast these spells spontaneously.
Aramil219 10-17-06, 03:57 AM	A Cleric with some elementel Domains and then PrCed into Thaumaturgist can make for a great roleplaying experience and also a powerful summoning build.
Tigron321 10-18-06, 02:08 PM	Okay then, Here's another one. What would be better for a summoner? A Wizard or Sorcerer?
MadMan 10-18-06, 05:56 PM	Okay then, Here's another one. What would be better for a summoner? A Wizard or Sorcerer? A Druid. :D
Tigron321 10-18-06, 06:22 PM	That's not what I asked, but... Im going to make a Dragonborn Sorcerer, based on summoning. Now are the choices in the PH the only familliars one could have? Or are there others? Or is it more or less up to the DM?
MadMan 10-18-06, 08:35 PM	That's not what I asked, but... Im going to make a Dragonborn Sorcerer, based on summoning. Now are the choices in the PH the only familliars one could have? Or are there others? Or is it more or less up to the DM? I know, but a Druid makes for a great summoner due to some boost spells they get. However there are many feats you can take for any spellcaster class to improve summoning. As for familiars, again there are feats that can get you better ones, and it can be up to the GM,, he may give you something that goes along with your campaign, but might be a little to tough, or he may just tell you to pick from the (crap) list. A good feat to take summoning is Extend Spell, which keeps the summoned creatures twice as long, not usually a problem at higher levels.
Tigron321 10-19-06, 12:00 AM	Theres a feat in one of my other books that makes summons last twice as long, I forget what its called though. Any help on Summoning spells themselves though? Besides the obvious Summon Monster ones. I've found a few others, Luminous Assassin in the PH2, and a few others in that book. I don't have Complete Mage yet, Im sure there's some in there too.
MadMan 10-19-06, 01:10 AM	Just regular summon spells. If you have the minis to go on the table it adds to huge effect. A campaign I recently played in we had a druid who would summon 3-5 Dire Bears as our meat shields and they did a heck of a job. Large Elementals work great as well. There is a high level (8-9 I think) spell called Elemental Swarm. You should read it. It's crazy. :D There are also spells in different books which add to the creatures such as a spell called Natures Favour, or something like that, which gives target creature +1 to hit and dmg. every 2 caster levels. It doesn't have a max., but like most spells it should have. It being a 2nd level spell should be maximized at +5. The Druid in our campaign for a while was giving his beast companion +9 to hit and damage. The Druids companion and summoned creatures won us most battles, as I was the Mage of the group and barely ever got hit in melee. :) Keep lookin' at spells, you'll find all kinds of booster stuff. Spellcasters are now my fav. classes. Enjoy!
Tigron321 10-19-06, 09:16 PM	Hm. So summoning wise, Druids are better? How so though? They get Summon Nature's Ally. I've seen that, but if you look in a bunch of different books, there are summons like... summon aspect of bahamut. Summon elemental monolith. Luminos Assassin, from PH2, there are a bunch of others too. I realize that the Nature's Ally is probabyl a good spell, coupled with a few others the druid can do, animate trees and stuff like that. Do they really have better spells? I've never done spell casting before, and IM intrested in summoning type and the like.
Fuzzy_Logic 10-19-06, 11:01 PM	Druids win at summoning as a general combat tactic. Summon Nature's ally is a fine spell for pure beef, and they have a number of easy ways-- animal growth, greenbound, ashbound, etc.-- That allow animals ot be pumped into impressive melee machines. However, I firmly believe that arcane casters are the best summoners. why? variety. Druids can, at low levels, pretty much only summon animals and elementals. Clerics and Wizards can both cast summon monster, but a good cleric cannot summon evil creatures, while a good wizard can and frequently should. Summoning spells are great tools for problem solving, both in and out of battle. A wizard or better yet sorcerer with summon monster available can overcome all kinds of obstacles. With lowish-level spells he can summon flying mounts, bats with blindesense to find hidden enemies, translators for a variety of langauges, aquatic minions, a fountain of temporary HP (lantern archon) and more. High-level summoned creatures can heal, dispel magic, cast bard spells, produce walls of ice and force, see with "true seeing" and more. Augment Summoning not only buffs the fighting monsters, it increases the DCs of some special attacks. For instance, achaierai have a CON-based insanity attack. Using a high-level spells to summon multiple achaierai is a rgeat attack--not many creatures can easily make repeatedly high-DC will saves.
MadMan 10-20-06, 01:40 AM	I agree. Druids are good, but Wizards are good as well because of the variety they can summon. A Druid can exchange summon spells as a cleric does heal spells, a mage has to study the summon spells. After summoning creatures the Druid can turn himself into different cool things with the right feats (my buddy turned himself into the Garg. Black Dragon, he was 27th level, when we fought our last battle in our last campaign, vs. Orcus:D ) where a mage has to sit back and be a mage (unless he turns himself into something as well), still not a bad thing. So it's all in what or how you wanna play it. Do you want a guy who gets up and fights with his creatures, or do you want to play the guy who stands back and throws spells? However with a mage, you start to become limited with your spells, as you don't wanna drop a fireball when it's gonna hit your own creatures. So, again, it's all what you feel like playing! p.s. Let me know what you go with, I'm kinda curious now. :)
MadMan 10-20-06, 01:43 AM	High-level summoned creatures can heal, dispel magic, cast bard spells, produce walls of ice and force, see with "true seeing" and more.. I used to summon Justice Archons with Quickened Teleport and jump us around into good fighting positions. :D Worked like a charm. However I was 18th or so at the time, and only took the summon spells because the Druid couldn't show. lol