a little help, please???? [Archive] - Wizards Community

a little help, please???? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Rothgaard
08-04-05, 02:53 AM As the serach funktion is down (used 45 min surfing around before i found out :mad: ) I run the risk of asking some stupid question :confused: .

First off. what happen with the barbarians extra hitpoints (from raging) when he goes below zero hp? does the rage end and kills him (if you are a 5 lv barbarian or above)

Secondly, does the familiers that you can call with the improved familier feat grant you improved evasion (in this case an imp) it seem to state so in tome and blood
slade_caizer
08-04-05, 02:56 AM As the serach funktion is down (used 45 min surfing around before i found out :mad: ) I run the risk of asking some stupid question :confused: .

First off. what happen with the barbarians extra hitpoints (from raging) when he goes below zero hp? does the rage end and kills him (if you are a 5 lv barbarian or above)

Secondly, does the familiers that you can call with the improved familier feat grant you improved evasion (in this case an imp) it seem to state so in tome and blood

Yes, barbarians still die if their temporary HP disappears and they go to -10 or below. That much is unchanged.

As for the improved familiar, I must admit ignorance. I don't have the books with me, just now.
Torack
08-04-05, 03:00 AM The barbarian would indeed be dying or dead, depending on whether his hps are between 0 and -10 or lower then -10.

As for the Improved Familiar feat and the Imp, my guess would be, yes, they do get the Improved Evasion, just like any normal familiar would.
Rothgaard
08-04-05, 03:12 AM what you are saying is that if you are a 5 lv bararian raging (geting 10 hp from +4 con) and you go below 0 hp, you are death no way you or your friends can heal you, only chance to keep playing is a raise death spell.

what about being on zero can you still rage at zero hitpoint or are you death as well (because of the loss af the extra hitpoints)
Pliskit
08-04-05, 04:01 AM The moment your rage leaves you you lose the extra hitpoints you gained from it. On 0 hitpoint you fall unconscious and therefore you lose your rage: if you gained 10 or more hp from raging you now are dead.
There is a feat however that grants you the ability to keep on fighting untill you reach -10... it's in the Complete Warrior I believe.
Malibu Trojan
08-04-05, 04:19 AM what about being on zero can you still rage at zero hitpoint or are you death as well (because of the loss af the extra hitpoints)
At zero hit points you're still raging, but once you take most any action you fall unconscious (-1 HP) and lose the rage (and probably die).

The moment your rage leaves you you lose the extra hitpoints you gained from it. On 0 hitpoint you fall unconscious and therefore you lose your rage: if you gained 10 or more hp from raging you now are dead.
There is a feat however that grants you the ability to keep on fighting untill you reach -10... it's in the Complete Warrior I believe.
Diehard allows you to remain stable below 0 HP; you take damage every time you perform a standard action (such as attack), but you do not fall unconscious until you reach -10 HP and die. It's probably an awesome feat for a barbarian to have.
Vaelan
08-04-05, 04:30 AM I'm not seeing anything in the rules about Rage ending when you become unconscious.
Rothgaard
08-04-05, 05:02 AM I'm not seeing anything in the rules about Rage ending when you become unconscious.

The above quote is ther reason for this tread. Where in the rules does it state that rage ends when you become unconscious
Pliskit
08-04-05, 05:31 AM I must admit I can't produce any quotes, as I don't have my books with me right now.
On a practical level however I would say rage is a state of mind. If you fall unconscious, you temporarily don't HAVE a state of mind. Therefore rage falls.
Rialto
08-04-05, 05:50 AM According to chonjurer's Classes Board FAQ (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=20514) Barbarian going unconscious does not end the rage:

Q: When a Barbarian goes unconscious and is raged, does he drop out of his rage?
A: By a strict reading of the rules, no.

Regardless, if a 4th level Barbarian is dropped to -2 on his new HP total, and falls out of rage (for whatever reason), he instantly loses the 8 HP he gained from the rage. This puts him at -10, meaning that he is dead. This also means the Barbarians should be careful when raging.
Sir Ferdinand
08-04-05, 07:15 AM According to chonjurer's Classes Board FAQ (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=20514) Barbarian going unconscious does not end the rage:

I agree with this. A Barbarian in a state of dying does not end the rage, unless at the same time the encounter ends. So if during the encounter the Babrarian drops to say -3 hp and he would still have the rage duration going on, he wouldn't suddenly lose the rage. We have played with this rule in our games.
Shadowfax7
08-04-05, 07:19 AM First off. what happen with the barbarians extra hitpoints (from raging) when he goes below zero hp? does the rage end and kills him (if you are a 5 lv barbarian or above)
1st, Rage doesn't end when you go unconscious. There have been many threads on this and FAQ quotes.

2nd, at 0 HP a raging 5th level barbarian would die after his rage ends normally or through magic (eg. Calm Emotions), as he would then go to -10 HP.

Secondly, does the familiers that you can call with the improved familier feat grant you improved evasion (in this case an imp) it seem to state so in tome and blood
Neither normal familiars, nor familiars obtained w/the Improved Familiars feat grant the master Improved Evasion.
Malibu Trojan
08-04-05, 11:56 AM It's true that there's nothing in the RAW saying that a barbarian loses his rage when he goes unconscious, but it just... kinda... makes sense. The PHB glossary doesn't include under the definition of "unconscious" that you can't attack either. That's an extreme comparison, but clearly they're not going to tell you everything, and you should probably house-rule it whether the barbarian loses his rage. Since there are ways around dying from it (Diehard, for example, as mentioned above), I wouldn't say it's too much of a nerf to say they do lose their rage. That's how my group plays anyway.
:twocents:

PS to Rothgaard: Go to Google, select "Advanced Search," and type in "boards1.wizards.com" in the Domain field; you can instead add "site:boards1.wizards.com" to the end of your search if you wish. The Google search will then return only results from the Wizards message boards.
Nephlite
08-04-05, 01:07 PM Yes, barbarians still die if their temporary HP disappears and they go to -10 or below. That much is unchanged.

As for the improved familiar, I must admit ignorance. I don't have the books with me, just now.
Nope, Barbarians don't gain temporary Hps. Only Battle Ragers do (I invented it based on Buldar's Gate game).

Barbarians gain Additional hps. Additional hps are lost lasts, tempoary hps are lost first.

If you have 30 hps, and lose 35, if you temporary hps of 15, you have 10 hps left. When Enrage ends you have 10 still.

If you have 30 hps, and lose 35, if you additonal hps of 15, you have 0 hps and 10 additional ones left. When rages ends you have 0 hps.
Lucio Havelock
08-04-05, 01:54 PM Barbarians gain Additional hps. Additional hps are lost lasts, tempoary hps are lost first..

Unfortunately that's the wrong way round, Barbarians do indeed gain additional hitpoints when raging, but additional hit points are lost when the condition granting them expires they're immediately deducted from your total.

Temporary hit points (such as those granted by Aid or Vampiric Touch) are lost first, and if not used up by the end of the granting condition, the REMAINING ammount fades away.

I'd quote page numbers from the PHB and DMG but I'm in the middle of moving and they're packed up somewhere.
El_Machinae
08-04-05, 02:03 PM A fifth level werewolf also suffers from this problem. If a fellow PC becomes a werewolf, be very careful while beating them down. You could kill them if you wound them into unconciousness.
Norhg
08-04-05, 02:34 PM Unfortunately that's the wrong way round, Barbarians do indeed gain additional hitpoints when raging, but additional hit points are lost when the condition granting them expires they're immediately deducted from your total.

Temporary hit points (such as those granted by Aid or Vampiric Touch) are lost first, and if not used up by the end of the granting condition, the REMAINING ammount fades away.

I'd quote page numbers from the PHB and DMG but I'm in the middle of moving and they're packed up somewhere.

I'm sorry for being but...

What you just said is what you Quoted.

You said that what you Quoted was not correct.

Which statement is correct? Nothing?
Nephlite
08-04-05, 09:12 PM I'm sorry for being but...

What you just said is what you Quoted.

You said that what you Quoted was not correct.

Which statement is correct? Nothing?

Yeah, I've always had the problem with people not understanding me.

And yes he quoted what I said and said it was wrong than repeated what I said.

And yes my statement was correct, but he wanted to deny me for some reason.

I mean, my example proves what I mean.

Unfortunately that's the wrong way round, Barbarians do indeed gain additional hitpoints when raging, but additional hit points are lost when the condition granting them expires they're immediately deducted from your total.

Yes and that is known as last.

Temporary hit points (such as those granted by Aid or Vampiric Touch) are lost first, and if not used up by the end of the granting condition, the REMAINING ammount fades away.

And that is known as first.
And i'll repeat for Lucio:
Barbarians gain Additional hps. Additional hps are lost lasts, tempoary hps are lost first.

Biggest problems with Barbs. All that damage if not healed before they run out of rage duration can kill them when it ends.
Marcus Majarra
08-04-05, 09:53 PM It's best to consider that any increases to the Con modifier of a character increase that character's max HP, whereas temporary HP increase current HP, and then count only the damage taken for the purposes of determining where the character's at. In that fashion, it's no longer a matter of gaining or losing HP with Con changes.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Rothgaard 08-04-05, 02:53 AM	As the serach funktion is down (used 45 min surfing around before i found out :mad: ) I run the risk of asking some stupid question :confused: . First off. what happen with the barbarians extra hitpoints (from raging) when he goes below zero hp? does the rage end and kills him (if you are a 5 lv barbarian or above) Secondly, does the familiers that you can call with the improved familier feat grant you improved evasion (in this case an imp) it seem to state so in tome and blood
slade_caizer 08-04-05, 02:56 AM	As the serach funktion is down (used 45 min surfing around before i found out :mad: ) I run the risk of asking some stupid question :confused: . First off. what happen with the barbarians extra hitpoints (from raging) when he goes below zero hp? does the rage end and kills him (if you are a 5 lv barbarian or above) Secondly, does the familiers that you can call with the improved familier feat grant you improved evasion (in this case an imp) it seem to state so in tome and blood Yes, barbarians still die if their temporary HP disappears and they go to -10 or below. That much is unchanged. As for the improved familiar, I must admit ignorance. I don't have the books with me, just now.
Torack 08-04-05, 03:00 AM	The barbarian would indeed be dying or dead, depending on whether his hps are between 0 and -10 or lower then -10. As for the Improved Familiar feat and the Imp, my guess would be, yes, they do get the Improved Evasion, just like any normal familiar would.
Rothgaard 08-04-05, 03:12 AM	what you are saying is that if you are a 5 lv bararian raging (geting 10 hp from +4 con) and you go below 0 hp, you are death no way you or your friends can heal you, only chance to keep playing is a raise death spell. what about being on zero can you still rage at zero hitpoint or are you death as well (because of the loss af the extra hitpoints)
Pliskit 08-04-05, 04:01 AM	The moment your rage leaves you you lose the extra hitpoints you gained from it. On 0 hitpoint you fall unconscious and therefore you lose your rage: if you gained 10 or more hp from raging you now are dead. There is a feat however that grants you the ability to keep on fighting untill you reach -10... it's in the Complete Warrior I believe.
Malibu Trojan 08-04-05, 04:19 AM	what about being on zero can you still rage at zero hitpoint or are you death as well (because of the loss af the extra hitpoints) At zero hit points you're still raging, but once you take most any action you fall unconscious (-1 HP) and lose the rage (and probably die). The moment your rage leaves you you lose the extra hitpoints you gained from it. On 0 hitpoint you fall unconscious and therefore you lose your rage: if you gained 10 or more hp from raging you now are dead. There is a feat however that grants you the ability to keep on fighting untill you reach -10... it's in the Complete Warrior I believe. Diehard allows you to remain stable below 0 HP; you take damage every time you perform a standard action (such as attack), but you do not fall unconscious until you reach -10 HP and die. It's probably an awesome feat for a barbarian to have.
Vaelan 08-04-05, 04:30 AM	I'm not seeing anything in the rules about Rage ending when you become unconscious.
Rothgaard 08-04-05, 05:02 AM	I'm not seeing anything in the rules about Rage ending when you become unconscious. The above quote is ther reason for this tread. Where in the rules does it state that rage ends when you become unconscious
Pliskit 08-04-05, 05:31 AM	I must admit I can't produce any quotes, as I don't have my books with me right now. On a practical level however I would say rage is a state of mind. If you fall unconscious, you temporarily don't HAVE a state of mind. Therefore rage falls.
Rialto 08-04-05, 05:50 AM	According to chonjurer's Classes Board FAQ (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=20514) Barbarian going unconscious does not end the rage: Q: When a Barbarian goes unconscious and is raged, does he drop out of his rage? A: By a strict reading of the rules, no. Regardless, if a 4th level Barbarian is dropped to -2 on his new HP total, and falls out of rage (for whatever reason), he instantly loses the 8 HP he gained from the rage. This puts him at -10, meaning that he is dead. This also means the Barbarians should be careful when raging.
Sir Ferdinand 08-04-05, 07:15 AM	According to chonjurer's Classes Board FAQ (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=20514) Barbarian going unconscious does not end the rage: I agree with this. A Barbarian in a state of dying does not end the rage, unless at the same time the encounter ends. So if during the encounter the Babrarian drops to say -3 hp and he would still have the rage duration going on, he wouldn't suddenly lose the rage. We have played with this rule in our games.
Shadowfax7 08-04-05, 07:19 AM	First off. what happen with the barbarians extra hitpoints (from raging) when he goes below zero hp? does the rage end and kills him (if you are a 5 lv barbarian or above) 1st, Rage doesn't end when you go unconscious. There have been many threads on this and FAQ quotes. 2nd, at 0 HP a raging 5th level barbarian would die after his rage ends normally or through magic (eg. Calm Emotions), as he would then go to -10 HP. Secondly, does the familiers that you can call with the improved familier feat grant you improved evasion (in this case an imp) it seem to state so in tome and blood Neither normal familiars, nor familiars obtained w/the Improved Familiars feat grant the master Improved Evasion.
Malibu Trojan 08-04-05, 11:56 AM	It's true that there's nothing in the RAW saying that a barbarian loses his rage when he goes unconscious, but it just... kinda... makes sense. The PHB glossary doesn't include under the definition of "unconscious" that you can't attack either. That's an extreme comparison, but clearly they're not going to tell you everything, and you should probably house-rule it whether the barbarian loses his rage. Since there are ways around dying from it (Diehard, for example, as mentioned above), I wouldn't say it's too much of a nerf to say they do lose their rage. That's how my group plays anyway. :twocents: PS to Rothgaard: Go to Google, select "Advanced Search," and type in "boards1.wizards.com" in the Domain field; you can instead add "site:boards1.wizards.com" to the end of your search if you wish. The Google search will then return only results from the Wizards message boards.
Nephlite 08-04-05, 01:07 PM	Yes, barbarians still die if their temporary HP disappears and they go to -10 or below. That much is unchanged. As for the improved familiar, I must admit ignorance. I don't have the books with me, just now. Nope, Barbarians don't gain temporary Hps. Only Battle Ragers do (I invented it based on Buldar's Gate game). Barbarians gain Additional hps. Additional hps are lost lasts, tempoary hps are lost first. If you have 30 hps, and lose 35, if you temporary hps of 15, you have 10 hps left. When Enrage ends you have 10 still. If you have 30 hps, and lose 35, if you additonal hps of 15, you have 0 hps and 10 additional ones left. When rages ends you have 0 hps.
Lucio Havelock 08-04-05, 01:54 PM	Barbarians gain Additional hps. Additional hps are lost lasts, tempoary hps are lost first.. Unfortunately that's the wrong way round, Barbarians do indeed gain additional hitpoints when raging, but additional hit points are lost when the condition granting them expires they're immediately deducted from your total. Temporary hit points (such as those granted by Aid or Vampiric Touch) are lost first, and if not used up by the end of the granting condition, the REMAINING ammount fades away. I'd quote page numbers from the PHB and DMG but I'm in the middle of moving and they're packed up somewhere.
El_Machinae 08-04-05, 02:03 PM	A fifth level werewolf also suffers from this problem. If a fellow PC becomes a werewolf, be very careful while beating them down. You could kill them if you wound them into unconciousness.
Norhg 08-04-05, 02:34 PM	Unfortunately that's the wrong way round, Barbarians do indeed gain additional hitpoints when raging, but additional hit points are lost when the condition granting them expires they're immediately deducted from your total. Temporary hit points (such as those granted by Aid or Vampiric Touch) are lost first, and if not used up by the end of the granting condition, the REMAINING ammount fades away. I'd quote page numbers from the PHB and DMG but I'm in the middle of moving and they're packed up somewhere. I'm sorry for being but... What you just said is what you Quoted. You said that what you Quoted was not correct. Which statement is correct? Nothing?
Nephlite 08-04-05, 09:12 PM	I'm sorry for being but... What you just said is what you Quoted. You said that what you Quoted was not correct. Which statement is correct? Nothing? Yeah, I've always had the problem with people not understanding me. And yes he quoted what I said and said it was wrong than repeated what I said. And yes my statement was correct, but he wanted to deny me for some reason. I mean, my example proves what I mean. Unfortunately that's the wrong way round, Barbarians do indeed gain additional hitpoints when raging, but additional hit points are lost when the condition granting them expires they're immediately deducted from your total. Yes and that is known as last. Temporary hit points (such as those granted by Aid or Vampiric Touch) are lost first, and if not used up by the end of the granting condition, the REMAINING ammount fades away. And that is known as first. And i'll repeat for Lucio: Barbarians gain Additional hps. Additional hps are lost lasts, tempoary hps are lost first. Biggest problems with Barbs. All that damage if not healed before they run out of rage duration can kill them when it ends.
Marcus Majarra 08-04-05, 09:53 PM	It's best to consider that any increases to the Con modifier of a character increase that character's max HP, whereas temporary HP increase current HP, and then count only the damage taken for the purposes of determining where the character's at. In that fashion, it's no longer a matter of gaining or losing HP with Con changes.