A more Priestly Cleric? [Archive] - Wizards Community

A more Priestly Cleric? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Gellion
11-20-03, 11:07 PM Well, i was considering creating a second, more "priestly" tpy eclass. However, i do not want this class to replace the current Cleric. They will have the same spell list as Clerics, and still prepare spells, but they will have a d6 for a hit die, as well as 1/2 Bab. I will just call the current Cleric class a Warpriest. I do want to make them a viable option. I have consdered giving them bonus feats, as well as more domains. In addition, an ability, to pray to their god, or agent of their philosophy that the worship. I was thinking of using the percentile dice to determine what happens. So, could someone help me find a way for why someone would choose this over an normal Cleric. ANy ideas are welcome.:)
Bait the Bard
11-21-03, 04:53 AM Well, you could possibly give them 4 skill points a level, and more class skills; however, IMO not man players will want to play them even if they were balanced with the current cleric.

Also, could you try and be more careful with your spelling and grammar, it is likely to bring more responses in a easy to read form.

Hope this helps
- the annoying bard
Gellion
11-21-03, 06:30 AM Originally posted by Bait the Bard
Well, you could possibly give them 4 skill points a level, and more class skills; however, IMO not man players will want to play them even if they were balanced with the current cleric.

Also, could you try and be more careful with your spelling and grammar, it is likely to bring more responses in a easy to read form.

Well, i think my spelling is alright.:confused:

But i did write this when i was about to go to sleep, so i may have made some mistakes.

:angel:
mojo_202
11-21-03, 12:05 PM There are several very good cleric variants in Dragon 311 (Sep. 2003). You might like the Evangelist or the Aspirant. I would try to get a hold of the magazine and check them out. I'm using one of the bard prestige classes and a friend of mine is using the Metal Master druid variant. Just something to check out.

On another not, we can't all be perfect. Even myself, the great Peleran the Bard, cannot always be perfect. Don't worry about your spelling. I've seen much worse. :D
Gellion
11-21-03, 03:51 PM Originally posted by mojo_202
There are several very good cleric variants in Dragon 311 (Sep. 2003). You might like the Evangelist or the Aspirant. I would try to get a hold of the magazine and check them out. I'm using one of the bard prestige classes and a friend of mine is using the Metal Master druid variant. Just something to check out.

Yeah, i have heard about them, but they are still not exactly what i am looking for.
Gellion
11-21-03, 05:30 PM Originally posted by Bait the Bard
Well, you could possibly give them 4 skill points a level, and more class skills; however, IMO not man players will want to play them even if they were balanced with the current cleric.

I was planning on giveing them 4 skill points per level. I am just trying to figure out some nice class features.:)
Gellion
11-22-03, 04:59 PM Originally posted by mojo_202
On another not, we can't all be perfect. Even myself, the great Peleran the Bard, cannot always be perfect. Don't worry about your spelling. I've seen much worse. :D

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! YOU DID IT TOO!!!!!!J/K.:D
Endarire
11-22-03, 05:21 PM I think the "not" for "note" was intentional.

-EE
Willie the Duck
11-22-03, 08:36 PM ugh, shut up speeling nazis.;)

A less martial cleric isn't a bad idea. Maybe give them a wizard's hp, bab and armor restrictions (keep the fort save, they fight alot more undead). if you do this, you should expand their spell list to include some of the wizard's armor-less protective spells. Actually, if you are going to weaken them like this, you should expand their spell list quite a bit to keep them balanced (although many would argue that the cleric NEEDS to be taken down a peg or two).
BruteForce
11-22-03, 10:51 PM Just a few thoughts off the top of my head...

- More domain access. Either let him choose three domains, or maybe start with two and gain another at 5th level. The Shaman from Oriental Adventures did something similar, and I thought it worked pretty well.

- More spells per day. Instead of keeping the same spells per day as a wizard, maybe look at the sorcerer table... (On that note, maybe a divine caster that doesn't prepare spells in advance at all would work.)

- Change the way domain spells work. Instead of preparing one or the other of his domain spells, that's an "open slot" that can be used for either one (so even if the class normally casts like a wizard, the domain spell slot is more like that of a sorcerer with a very limited spell list). Incidentally, this is the way my first 3e group played clerics (not even realizing it was wrong until about three months into tha campaign) and it worked great.

Even better, let the character spontaneously cast any of his domain spells, instead of (or maybe in addition to?) cure/inflict spells.

Steal some paladin abilities. Specifically, I'm looking at detect evil (modified to allow him to detect alignments opposed to his deity's), Divine Grace, Lay on Hands, Aura or Courage, and/or Divine Health. Also, maybe incorporate something similar to the paladin's restrictions on who he can associate with.

Bonus feats! More like a wizard than a fighter. In fact, you could pretty much do it exactly like a wizard: Scribe Scroll at level one and a new feat at every fifth level (and switch out Spell Mastery for Extra Turning).

A "clerical" version of certain bardic music abilities (not singing; more like he's preaching; possibly use Diplomacy -- or Intimidate, for gods like Hextor or Erythnul -- instead of Perform); Maybe the character can use the fascinate and suggestion abilities, at least, though the various inspire abilities wouldn't be out of line...

Not that I'm suggesting you incorporate all of these at once; Just the various disjoined ideas I could come up with in my flu-induced medicine haze...
Gellion
11-22-03, 10:59 PM Originally posted by BruteForce
Just a few thoughts off the top of my head...

- More domain access. Either let him choose three domains, or maybe start with two and gain another at 5th level. The Shaman from Oriental Adventures did something similar, and I thought it worked pretty well.

- More spells per day. Instead of keeping the same spells per day as a wizard, maybe look at the sorcerer table... (On that note, maybe a divine caster that doesn't prepare spells in advance at all would work.)

- Change the way domain spells work. Instead of preparing one or the other of his domain spells, that's an "open slot" that can be used for either one (so even if the class normally casts like a wizard, the domain spell slot is more like that of a sorcerer with a very limited spell list). Incidentally, this is the way my first 3e group played clerics (not even realizing it was wrong until about three months into tha campaign) and it worked great.

Even better, let the character spontaneously cast any of his domain spells, instead of (or maybe in addition to?) cure/inflict spells.

Steal some paladin abilities. Specifically, I'm looking at detect evil (modified to allow him to detect alignments opposed to his deity's), Divine Grace, Lay on Hands, Aura or Courage, and/or Divine Health. Also, maybe incorporate something similar to the paladin's restrictions on who he can associate with.

Bonus feats! More like a wizard than a fighter. In fact, you could pretty much do it exactly like a wizard: Scribe Scroll at level one and a new feat at every fifth level (and switch out Spell Mastery for Extra Turning).

A "clerical" version of certain bardic music abilities (not singing; more like he's preaching; possibly use Diplomacy -- or Intimidate, for gods like Hextor or Erythnul -- instead of Perform); Maybe the character can use the fascinate and suggestion abilities, at least, though the various inspire abilities wouldn't be out of line...

Not that I'm suggesting you incorporate all of these at once; Just the various disjoined ideas I could come up with in my flu-induced medicine haze...

Those all sound cool. Hope you feel better soon.:)
detectevil
11-23-03, 03:59 AM To steal anything from the Paladin Class would be an act of evil. If you decide to do so, I'll feel forced to smite you!

Meanwhile, I've been working on a Spellcasting Priest because my game word needs one. I've created a thread to discuss it, which, of course, became about a completely different discussion... but I think you might find my class interesting.

check it out here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=135462)
Wizzy of Eros
11-23-03, 07:07 AM You might also want to take a look at this (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=129055) link.
Gellion
11-23-03, 03:06 PM Thanks for the links, Both were helpful.:)
Gellion
11-25-03, 10:41 PM Is the Evangelist the one that gets BaB and the same hit die as a Cleric, but gets more domains, and cast spells like a Sorceror? Or am i thinking of another class?
cultjake
11-26-03, 04:32 AM I'm not in favor of the extra domains. IMO, domains are what makes the cleric so formidable.

If you want a spellcaster type cleric, I think the best bet would be virtual feats.

character level, free feat
1 scribe scroll
4 extra turning
7 spell penetration
10 empower turning
13 divine vigor
16 spell focus conjuration
19 any metamagic feat

d6 hitpoints, only will save good, medium armor proficiency, no shield, simple weapons.
Gellion
11-26-03, 02:55 PM Originally posted by cultjake
I'm not in favor of the extra domains. IMO, domains are what makes the cleric so formidable.

If you want a spellcaster type cleric, I think the best bet would be virtual feats.

character level, free feat
1 scribe scroll
4 extra turning
7 spell penetration
10 empower turning
13 divine vigor
16 spell focus conjuration
19 any metamagic feat

d6 hitpoints, only will save good, medium armor proficiency, no shield, simple weapons.

Sounds cool, but why no extra domains? The point is that they are more connected to their deity or philosophy, that they can derive more power from it, than a Warpriest could.
Crashy75
11-26-03, 04:01 PM Extra skill points are definitly the way i would (an am) go(ing)
Gellion
11-26-03, 09:22 PM Originally posted by Crashy75
Extra skill points are definitly the way i would (an am) go(ing)

How many extra?:D

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Gellion 11-20-03, 11:07 PM	Well, i was considering creating a second, more "priestly" tpy eclass. However, i do not want this class to replace the current Cleric. They will have the same spell list as Clerics, and still prepare spells, but they will have a d6 for a hit die, as well as 1/2 Bab. I will just call the current Cleric class a Warpriest. I do want to make them a viable option. I have consdered giving them bonus feats, as well as more domains. In addition, an ability, to pray to their god, or agent of their philosophy that the worship. I was thinking of using the percentile dice to determine what happens. So, could someone help me find a way for why someone would choose this over an normal Cleric. ANy ideas are welcome.:)
Bait the Bard 11-21-03, 04:53 AM	Well, you could possibly give them 4 skill points a level, and more class skills; however, IMO not man players will want to play them even if they were balanced with the current cleric. Also, could you try and be more careful with your spelling and grammar, it is likely to bring more responses in a easy to read form. Hope this helps - the annoying bard
Gellion 11-21-03, 06:30 AM	Originally posted by Bait the Bard Well, you could possibly give them 4 skill points a level, and more class skills; however, IMO not man players will want to play them even if they were balanced with the current cleric. Also, could you try and be more careful with your spelling and grammar, it is likely to bring more responses in a easy to read form. Well, i think my spelling is alright.:confused: But i did write this when i was about to go to sleep, so i may have made some mistakes. :angel:
mojo_202 11-21-03, 12:05 PM	There are several very good cleric variants in Dragon 311 (Sep. 2003). You might like the Evangelist or the Aspirant. I would try to get a hold of the magazine and check them out. I'm using one of the bard prestige classes and a friend of mine is using the Metal Master druid variant. Just something to check out. On another not, we can't all be perfect. Even myself, the great Peleran the Bard, cannot always be perfect. Don't worry about your spelling. I've seen much worse. :D
Gellion 11-21-03, 03:51 PM	Originally posted by mojo_202 There are several very good cleric variants in Dragon 311 (Sep. 2003). You might like the Evangelist or the Aspirant. I would try to get a hold of the magazine and check them out. I'm using one of the bard prestige classes and a friend of mine is using the Metal Master druid variant. Just something to check out. Yeah, i have heard about them, but they are still not exactly what i am looking for.
Gellion 11-21-03, 05:30 PM	Originally posted by Bait the Bard Well, you could possibly give them 4 skill points a level, and more class skills; however, IMO not man players will want to play them even if they were balanced with the current cleric. I was planning on giveing them 4 skill points per level. I am just trying to figure out some nice class features.:)
Gellion 11-22-03, 04:59 PM	Originally posted by mojo_202 On another not, we can't all be perfect. Even myself, the great Peleran the Bard, cannot always be perfect. Don't worry about your spelling. I've seen much worse. :D HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! YOU DID IT TOO!!!!!!J/K.:D
Endarire 11-22-03, 05:21 PM	I think the "not" for "note" was intentional. -EE
Willie the Duck 11-22-03, 08:36 PM	ugh, shut up speeling nazis.;) A less martial cleric isn't a bad idea. Maybe give them a wizard's hp, bab and armor restrictions (keep the fort save, they fight alot more undead). if you do this, you should expand their spell list to include some of the wizard's armor-less protective spells. Actually, if you are going to weaken them like this, you should expand their spell list quite a bit to keep them balanced (although many would argue that the cleric NEEDS to be taken down a peg or two).
BruteForce 11-22-03, 10:51 PM	Just a few thoughts off the top of my head... - More domain access. Either let him choose three domains, or maybe start with two and gain another at 5th level. The Shaman from Oriental Adventures did something similar, and I thought it worked pretty well. - More spells per day. Instead of keeping the same spells per day as a wizard, maybe look at the sorcerer table... (On that note, maybe a divine caster that doesn't prepare spells in advance at all would work.) - Change the way domain spells work. Instead of preparing one or the other of his domain spells, that's an "open slot" that can be used for either one (so even if the class normally casts like a wizard, the domain spell slot is more like that of a sorcerer with a very limited spell list). Incidentally, this is the way my first 3e group played clerics (not even realizing it was wrong until about three months into tha campaign) and it worked great. Even better, let the character spontaneously cast any of his domain spells, instead of (or maybe in addition to?) cure/inflict spells. Steal some paladin abilities. Specifically, I'm looking at detect evil (modified to allow him to detect alignments opposed to his deity's), Divine Grace, Lay on Hands, Aura or Courage, and/or Divine Health. Also, maybe incorporate something similar to the paladin's restrictions on who he can associate with. Bonus feats! More like a wizard than a fighter. In fact, you could pretty much do it exactly like a wizard: Scribe Scroll at level one and a new feat at every fifth level (and switch out Spell Mastery for Extra Turning). A "clerical" version of certain bardic music abilities (not singing; more like he's preaching; possibly use Diplomacy -- or Intimidate, for gods like Hextor or Erythnul -- instead of Perform); Maybe the character can use the fascinate and suggestion abilities, at least, though the various inspire abilities wouldn't be out of line... Not that I'm suggesting you incorporate all of these at once; Just the various disjoined ideas I could come up with in my flu-induced medicine haze...
Gellion 11-22-03, 10:59 PM	Originally posted by BruteForce Just a few thoughts off the top of my head... - More domain access. Either let him choose three domains, or maybe start with two and gain another at 5th level. The Shaman from Oriental Adventures did something similar, and I thought it worked pretty well. - More spells per day. Instead of keeping the same spells per day as a wizard, maybe look at the sorcerer table... (On that note, maybe a divine caster that doesn't prepare spells in advance at all would work.) - Change the way domain spells work. Instead of preparing one or the other of his domain spells, that's an "open slot" that can be used for either one (so even if the class normally casts like a wizard, the domain spell slot is more like that of a sorcerer with a very limited spell list). Incidentally, this is the way my first 3e group played clerics (not even realizing it was wrong until about three months into tha campaign) and it worked great. Even better, let the character spontaneously cast any of his domain spells, instead of (or maybe in addition to?) cure/inflict spells. Steal some paladin abilities. Specifically, I'm looking at detect evil (modified to allow him to detect alignments opposed to his deity's), Divine Grace, Lay on Hands, Aura or Courage, and/or Divine Health. Also, maybe incorporate something similar to the paladin's restrictions on who he can associate with. Bonus feats! More like a wizard than a fighter. In fact, you could pretty much do it exactly like a wizard: Scribe Scroll at level one and a new feat at every fifth level (and switch out Spell Mastery for Extra Turning). A "clerical" version of certain bardic music abilities (not singing; more like he's preaching; possibly use Diplomacy -- or Intimidate, for gods like Hextor or Erythnul -- instead of Perform); Maybe the character can use the fascinate and suggestion abilities, at least, though the various inspire abilities wouldn't be out of line... Not that I'm suggesting you incorporate all of these at once; Just the various disjoined ideas I could come up with in my flu-induced medicine haze... Those all sound cool. Hope you feel better soon.:)
detectevil 11-23-03, 03:59 AM	To steal anything from the Paladin Class would be an act of evil. If you decide to do so, I'll feel forced to smite you! Meanwhile, I've been working on a Spellcasting Priest because my game word needs one. I've created a thread to discuss it, which, of course, became about a completely different discussion... but I think you might find my class interesting. check it out here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=135462)
Wizzy of Eros 11-23-03, 07:07 AM	You might also want to take a look at this (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=129055) link.
Gellion 11-23-03, 03:06 PM	Thanks for the links, Both were helpful.:)
Gellion 11-25-03, 10:41 PM	Is the Evangelist the one that gets BaB and the same hit die as a Cleric, but gets more domains, and cast spells like a Sorceror? Or am i thinking of another class?
cultjake 11-26-03, 04:32 AM	I'm not in favor of the extra domains. IMO, domains are what makes the cleric so formidable. If you want a spellcaster type cleric, I think the best bet would be virtual feats. character level, free feat 1 scribe scroll 4 extra turning 7 spell penetration 10 empower turning 13 divine vigor 16 spell focus conjuration 19 any metamagic feat d6 hitpoints, only will save good, medium armor proficiency, no shield, simple weapons.
Gellion 11-26-03, 02:55 PM	Originally posted by cultjake I'm not in favor of the extra domains. IMO, domains are what makes the cleric so formidable. If you want a spellcaster type cleric, I think the best bet would be virtual feats. character level, free feat 1 scribe scroll 4 extra turning 7 spell penetration 10 empower turning 13 divine vigor 16 spell focus conjuration 19 any metamagic feat d6 hitpoints, only will save good, medium armor proficiency, no shield, simple weapons. Sounds cool, but why no extra domains? The point is that they are more connected to their deity or philosophy, that they can derive more power from it, than a Warpriest could.
Crashy75 11-26-03, 04:01 PM	Extra skill points are definitly the way i would (an am) go(ing)
Gellion 11-26-03, 09:22 PM	Originally posted by Crashy75 Extra skill points are definitly the way i would (an am) go(ing) How many extra?:D