Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Lord_Canius 03-09-06, 03:13 PM	I had an idea. Since it is obviusly that the Gestalt varient is unbalanced to the point of being a game-killer, I began to devise a way to balance it out, so players who want to be gestalt can adventure alongside those who don't in harmony. Basicaly, what I came up with astounded me with it's simple brilliance. All gestalt characters have +1 LA. Its as simple as that. Sure, at first level, gestalt can out-power any normal character, but with that +1 LA dragging his level gain into the hole, when the other players are getting to around level 4, the gestalt will still be stumbling around, searching for enough XP to get to lvl 3. So basicaly, you have a character who can do a bunch of stuff, has decent to good overall saves, and decent hit-points, but you still have to spread your stats so thin to cover all your bases (depending on which classes you choose) that it weakens you to the point of just being slightly more special than other characters due to your versatility. What do you guys think? (BTW, the only reason I had to come up with this idea was because one of my player's wants to gestalt, but the other players don't. I'm a very accomidating DM, but I am most certainly not going to give one PC more power than the others, so I needed a way to balance the "gestalt problem")
Lina_Inverse 03-09-06, 03:44 PM	Hey poko. Did you read the gestalt section? "treat gestalt charecters as one level higher for the purposes of challenges." Unless you didnt know, thats like +1LA :P
Lord_Canius 03-10-06, 04:11 AM	Hey poko. Did you read the gestalt section? "treat gestalt charecters as one level higher for the purposes of challenges." Unless you didnt know, thats like +1LA :P Umm.. No. It isnt. +1 LA means that a 1st level gestalt character would need to get enough experiance to get to level 3, just to get to level 2. Which is, incidentaly, far different than just treating them as one level higher. So.... no.
Lord_Canius 03-10-06, 11:21 AM	Bumpidy :bump:
kdyal 03-10-06, 11:37 AM	Actually, according to UA, one uses the same EXP chart for a Gestalt char that one uses for a +1 LA creature. AKA, 2nd level takes 2000 XP, 3rd level 3000, etc. This keeps the gestalt character always 1 level +1000XP behind any straight-class character...
Lord_Canius 03-10-06, 11:39 AM	Actually, according to UA, one uses the same EXP chart for a Gestalt char that one uses for a +1 LA creature. AKA, 2nd level takes 2000 XP, 3rd level 3000, etc. This keeps the gestalt character always 1 level +1000XP behind any straight-class character... Well.. crap. I thought I had something good, and it turns out that it was just my subconcius tricking me into thinking I had come up with something new, when in fact, I just didn't remember that I had read it in the book. Phooie..
Maraxus 03-10-06, 11:50 AM	But still - it does not work. The quasi +1LA in the rules is in addition to the effect that they are stronger then normal. So you take that to have the challenges interesting, but it does not work for the classes among another. If one wants to play a gestalt character and the others don't want (and you have more then two players), then democracy rules and gestalt is out. The player will need to multiclass or design a balanced custom class for whatever he wants to play (...that the dm accepts). Gestalt is not unbalanced. It is a very new form of gaming, that every character will have. (Okay, it's still somehow unbalanced because some combinations are simply better then others, but the same counts for multiclassing)
Lord_Canius 03-10-06, 11:58 AM	But still - it does not work. The quasi +1LA in the rules is in addition to the effect that they are stronger then normal. So you take that to have the challenges interesting, but it does not work for the classes among another. If one wants to play a gestalt character and the others don't want (and you have more then two players), then democracy rules and gestalt is out. The player will need to multiclass or design a balanced custom class for whatever he wants to play (...that the dm accepts). Gestalt is not unbalanced. It is a very new form of gaming, that every character will have. (Okay, it's still somehow unbalanced because some combinations are simply better then others, but the same counts for multiclassing) Good point. Thing is, I want the kid to play a gestalt, I really like my players to be unique, and having only one person as a gestalt would perfectly fit that need. I just dont know how to balance it so that way he doesn't suck the fun out of the game for the rest of the players.
Engilbrand 03-10-06, 12:27 PM	There's a reason that the book recommends using it as an all-or-none. It's not supposed to be balanced. And a +1 LA? Can you honestly tell me that a 19 Barbarian/ 19 Sorcerer is the same as a 20 Sorcerer? I know that some people will shout "TACTICS! SPELL SELECTION!" and other things like that. Ultimately, though, no. Nowhere close to balanced. I really like gestalt and wouldn't mind playing in it again. But to have only one person will have everyone else looking at him and saying, "I got a +1 to my Will and +1 BAB. He got 3 spells, rage, BAB, Fort and hit points." (I don't know.) Someone won't be happy. And you don't need gestalt to have a unique character.
Maraxus 03-10-06, 01:27 PM	Definitly. I had even said: Compare Barb 19/ Fighter 19 to Figher 20 or Barb 20. The gestalt character is much more powerful and that's even a bad combination. It looks okay on the first levels, but only on the very first. If you really wanted to do that, I would suggest that you make levels 1, 5, 9, 13 etc. blank levels, where he simply adds +1LA. At least something like that should work, through I have no idea, wheather that exact numbers would work. But as I said, the overall idea is bad. I think, the characters get even more unique, if they have 1 custom class, instead of two off-the-rack. Oh, and monster races allways make nice characters. :)