Post/Author/DateTime	Post
StarFyre 07-18-07, 09:46 AM	Hello, Now, a friend who may be joining my campaign wants to know if there is a way to create a nightcrawler type class. A teleport master so to speak. Now nightcrawler, officially, can teleport an unlimited distance as long as he somewhat knows his destination. THAT would be nuts in D&D unless it's a high epic level campaign..however, his vision is that something that could reach nightcrawler ability at epic levels (most likely VERY far into epic..like using an increasing DC chart, to reach distance..so that with a DC of 300, he could act just like nightcrawler or something). Anyways, I need some help. since i DM a planescape 3.5 campaign (with some stuff/rules taken from 2E) I am open to the new concepts/ideas, but I am worried about balance. Has any source have a teleport master like nightcrawler already? (maybe non WotC) or has anyone made such a class? Any ideas/suggestions? I know high level mages can do it, the way simbul in FR setting (atleast in 2e) has used WISH to combine her body with a lightning spell (she can turn to lighting and move at speed of lightning...), a mage could, if DM allowed, do the same with teleport without error (aka greater teleport) and make it usable at will. I am thinking something that gets more powerful as levels get on..or a higher DC, etc. but any ideas would be good :) Sanjay
Twylyght 07-18-07, 10:20 AM	The elocater in the expanded psionics handbook would be a good place to start inspiration wise.
Leonis472 07-18-07, 10:36 AM	Now nightcrawler, officially, can teleport an unlimited distance as long as he somewhat knows his destination. I think Nightcrawler is limited to about three miles, tops. And that's pushing it. See all those short bursts in X-Men 2? He made a lot of small jumps. He also is dazed or knocked unconscious if: 1. He jumps in rapid succession. 2. He takes too much extra weight with him during a teleport. (If it was a person he carried with him, that person is dazed or knocked out as well.) 3. He jumps too far in one go. 4. Any combination of the above. Nightcrawler is accustomed to pushing himself, so he is less susceptible to being dazed or knocked out than any "passengers" given in example two. He's used this as a tactic in the comics, haha. Nighty liked the sword, two swords in fact, so the swashbuckler in the DMG is one source of inspiration. Give him dimension door as a spell-like ability usable X times/hour, as even a relatively short rest usually was enough to rejuvenate Nightcrawler. The shadowdancer also comes to mind. A true nightcrawler-esque would also be extremely agile and acrobatic, and should have a climb speed; darkvision, two-weapon fighting all come to mind. Good luck, true believer.
KoraktheBarbarin 07-18-07, 10:45 AM	I think Nightcrawler is limited to about three miles, tops. And that's pushing it. See all those short bursts in X-Men 2? He made a lot of small jumps. He also is dazed or knocked unconscious if: 1. He jumps in rapid succession. 2. He takes too much extra weight with him during a teleport. (If it was a person he carried with him, that person is dazed or knocked out as well.) 3. He jumps too far in one go. 4. Any combination of the above. Nightcrawler is accustomed to pushing himself, so he is less susceptible to being dazed or knocked out than any "passengers" given in example two. He's used this as a tactic in the comics, haha. Nighty liked the sword, two swords in fact, so the swashbuckler in the DMG is one source of inspiration. Give him dimension door as a spell-like ability usable X times/hour, as even a relatively short rest usually was enough to rejuvenate Nightcrawler. The shadowdancer also comes to mind. A true nightcrawler-esque would also be extremely agile and acrobatic, and should have a climb speed; darkvision, two-weapon fighting all come to mind. Good luck, true believer. I like the dimension door idea x times/hour with each level increasing your range, amount of weight carried with you, etc... Quick question is the race/class going to be blue and furry with a tail?:D
Leonis472 07-18-07, 10:48 AM	I like the dimension door idea x times/hour with each level increasing your range, amount of weight carried with you, etc... Quick question is the race/class going to be blue and furry with a tail?:DIndeed, I agree completely regarding the times/hour, weight, range, etc. And the "Not a Tiefling" race. hahaha
Qube 07-18-07, 11:35 AM	Look at warlock: dimmention door at wil. (I figure its a PrC you want)
StarFyre 07-18-07, 11:49 AM	the warlock from complete arcane? or another warlock????
penchant 07-18-07, 12:02 PM	Check out my Battle Jumper (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=788204)PrC. The previous poster could be referring to the Invocation "flee the scene" which is a lesser invocation.
LoneFlame 07-18-07, 12:03 PM	Spread throughout many books are Invocations that make the Warlock the easiest option for this idea(I'm told there's even one that gets them the monster version of Greater Teleport). However, if you just wanna make a class that does nothing but teleport, start them off with that version of Dimension Door that has a range of 25 + 5/2 lvs feet. Then build then up to the normal Dimension Door distance. Then get them Teleport. Then Plane Shift. Then Greater Teleport. Then Greater Planeshift. Suggested: Lesser Dimension Door lv 1, Dimension Door lv 7, Teleport lv 10, Plane Shift lv 13, Gt. Teleport lv 15, Gt. Plane Shift lv 18. I don't know what the rest of the class abilities should be, but that's the simplest way to do the teleportation progression.
ryab 07-18-07, 12:05 PM	This brings up alot of balance problems though. For example almost all forms of dimensional doors require a standard action to cast. The base spell dimensional door is Sor/Wiz/BRD/Travel 4. So it would take a 4th level spell slot and an 8th level spell slot to be quickened. That means you would need to be 15th level wizard just to be able to use a quickend dimensional door and still make make a full round action (full attack). At a much lower level you can get a reserve feat that allows you to essentially dimensional door around but it still takes a standard action. Now I'm not saying that the ability alone makes you equivalent to a 15th level wizard but I don't know if I would allow it to be a dimensional door + attack kind of deal. I think I would base it off a sneak attack type class and allow only the sneak attack (not a full attack) after the teleport. Also the number or times per day increasing as well as weight allowed sounds good. Interesting idea just watch the balance on it.
penchant 07-18-07, 12:43 PM	Then there is plain ol' Ninja. Sure, you as a player know that he isn't teleporting, but ghost stepping but you are going for similar but mechanically balanced. At higher levels he gets the ethereal version so he is even stepping though matter. It also comes with a number of other abilities that NC was known for. Take it, change the flavor and have fun with it.
Hideous Phidias 07-18-07, 01:01 PM	There is a dragonmark feat tree out of Eberron that has dimension door ass a spell like ability. It starts off as a short jump but keeps getting better the more feats you take. There are also feat like magic in the blood and a few ones in the book Dragonmarked that give you more uses of the powers. I would combine this with the warlock class which at later levels get dimension door and spider climb at will.
Krusk 07-18-07, 01:31 PM	I like the idea of teleport, because nightcrawler can take people and objects with him, and he can go great distances. Many miles and such. How about he can do it unlimited times a day, like a warlock's abilities, but takes 1d4 nonlethal damage every 20 feet he "jumps" and takes 1d4 nonlethal for every 20lbs he is over his light load. Then maybe add in bonuses to it for a high con score. As for the sword fighting, just give the class a medium BAB and all finessable weapons. Also give it light armor, and possibly the ability to add a stat to his AC like a ninja.
PEBKAC 07-18-07, 04:03 PM	If you have access to the Tome of Battle and the Forgotten Realms supplement Unapproachable East, then you could do a build of Rogue 1/Warblade 13/Tefflamar Shadow Lord 6 (not sure of spelling). Your DM will need to change the prerequisite of the Shadow Lord Prc to suit the campaign world. Then you take the feat that allows you to learn additional maneuvers and take the 3 Shadow Hand maneuvers that allow you to Dimension Door . The first allows you to do so as a standard action, the next allows you to do so as a move action and the last allows you to do so as a swift action ( I think that a 13th level Warblade can get all three). The Shadow Lord’s fifth level ability is to make a full attack after using an ability or spell with the [Teleportation] descriptor. Thus in round 1 DD 3 times making 3 full attacks. Round 2, regain maneuvers, possibly making a single attack against a foe. Then shake and repeat round 1.
DracoPhoenix 07-18-07, 05:48 PM	How about a teleport focused warlock with a shape soulmeld(blinkshirt) feat at first level? (optional bonus essentia feat at 6th) It allows a short ranged (10-50ft) solo dimension door as a standard action (no other actions/move that turn).
Peregrine_Wolf 07-18-07, 06:17 PM	I like Krusk's idea, but you could also toss in the sneak attack after teleports and maybe make the teleport better based on level. Distance and amount of others you can teleport go up based on level, like monk and ninja AC bonus. Maybe include something like Ranger TWF combat style. I'll see if I can't come up with a class progression for this, but it'll probably take a week or so....
Count Nerindil Van Seraph 07-18-07, 06:19 PM	Hmm... the best I could give you is a Swordsage (ToB) specializing in Shadow Hand.
Nexis 07-18-07, 06:39 PM	Hmm... the best I could give you is a Swordsage (ToB) specializing in Shadow Hand. That’s what I was thinking. Grab the maneuvers Shadow Blink and Dance of the Spider and maybe Island of Blades, to simulate his tricky fighting style, and you have Nightcrawler.
robitusinz 07-19-07, 12:07 PM	I would go about creating a new class, or a PrC. First, I would want to balance per encounter, as the Warlock is. I would start with a increased movement speed like a Barbarian. Then add a Blink ability that can be turned on and off as a standard action. I would add a Flurry-of-Blows-type of ability that worked while the blink effect was on. (And would negate the 20% miss chance) This would simulate the character learning to fight while Blinking. At around level 6, I'd give him the Warlock's "Flee the Scene" invocation...standard action usage of a short-range dimension door. That would simulate "Nightcrawler" learning to extend the use of his teleportation. The next logical evolution is granting a "combat teleport" power that would let him dimension door as a move action. At some point, he should be able to do this unlimited times per day. Maybe the best implementation would be to create a special combat maneuver similar to charge, except that he can do it against anyone without needing a straight line. "Teleport Charge" - "Nightcrawler" teleports to any open space within 60' and can immediately make a single melee attack against an adjacent target with a +2 bonus to his attack roll, and a -2 penalty to his AC. At this point, he's always blinking, he's got a full-attack he can use while blinking, and he can make a teleport + single attack. I think at this point, it's best to define what the "ultimate power" of this class should be so that anything else can be rationed out appropriately. IMO, the final power here should be something equivalent to Whirlwind Attack, except its range extends out 30 feet from a central point, that is... "Whirlwind Teleport" - "Nightcrawler" designates any point within 60' of his position as the target of this ability. He may then make a single melee attack against all opponents within a 30 foot radius of the designated point. If this were a PrC, would this be a good level 10 ability? It definitely simulates the "cool" battle moves of Nightcrawler, with him teleporting all over a room and beating the hell out of multiple foes. What "implied" bonuses and penalties would any of these moves have? AoO avoidance, for one. The teleport charge wouldn't be much different from a "Spring Attack". The whirlwind teleport has the added advantage of letting him start the whirlwind from anywhere within 60', whereas regular whirlwind attack is a full-attack action (no movement). However, I'm of the opinion that class abilities should be a bit better than Feats. Would "Nightcrawler" be considered an invisible creature when he makes his special attacks? Blink says that he would be considered invisible when he attacks. However, if "permanent blink" ends up as a class feature, that'd just scream "broken" with Rogue-multiclassing. I like blink because it simulates Nightcrawler hopping all around his foe, striking from a variety of angles. It's a good mental visual. :D Perhaps his "flurry-of-blows" during blink ability drops him out of his blinking state, so he needs another standard action to activate it again. OR, perhaps the blink only occurs DURING the flurry.;
Ralvuimego 07-19-07, 12:20 PM	I've made a class some time ago that is a lot like what you're looking for. I'll see if I can find a link to it, but it can teleport from day one. Sadly, it's limited to feet of teleportation per day, which may make it less appealing to you. Edit: Found it. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=804323)
Lykor 07-19-07, 01:42 PM	One of the reserve feats allows a short distance teleport as a standard action, but you really need to be able to cast level 4/5 spells. If you are looking for a free action teleport, this is absurdly broken at any distance beyond 5 feet. It allows perfect positioning of the PC every round and will get abused massively. Look for a couple of the threads about DMs that allow an intelligent item that can cast dimension door for more info.
princeofcincinnati 07-19-07, 02:06 PM	Yea warlock with Flee the Scene AND making him a tiefling so he looks like Nightcrawler also.
periscope 07-19-07, 10:56 PM	What about the shadow dancer PRC if combined with 10 levels of rogue? He can hide so long as there is enough shadow, climbing and darkvision can be through magic items, they'll have proficiency with a rapier, 5d6 (i think) sneak attack, more if you have that weapon enhancement, and he can port, but only for a limited amount. There is also a psionic rogue who has abilities that might help, though maybe not necessarily fit in.
StevenO 07-19-07, 11:20 PM	Six level into Horizon Walker will let you Dimension Door every 1d4 rounds at your character level.
periscope 07-19-07, 11:21 PM	Six level into Horizon Walker will let you Dimension Door every 1d4 rounds at your character level. I forgot about that, and it gets Full BAB.
Torrential 07-20-07, 02:20 AM	If you want a character to do a lot of teleporting: Play an Ardent with the Freedom Mantle (from the Complete Psionic) Or, if you want some pretty good melee potential, you could go with a Psychic Warrior with the Freedom Mantle (using the Mind's Eye Mantled Warrior (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070214a) variant). What does the Freedom Mantle give you? ~ +10ft to movement speed (as long as you have your Psionic Focus). This would reflect in-game the speed and quickness of Nightcrawler. ~ Expending Psionic Focus gives a bonus to grapple resists. How often do you ever see Nightcrawler held down? ~ Access to Dimension Hop as a 1st level power. It's a swift action for a 10ft teleport (+5ft for every additional pp spent). You can Dim. Hop & full attack every round for as long as you have pp. ~ Access to Hustle (extra move action), Freedom of Movement (can't be grappled/slowed), Teleport, and Evade Burst (no damage from a successful Reflex save) Going with the Freedom Mantle gives you better flavor than some of the other legal suggestions, and you won't have the headache of changing existing classes or inventing new ones. Ardent has access to multiple mantles, so you can also pick up, say, things like: The Natural World Mantle (grants Wild Empathy, and gives access to Chameleon, Animal Affinity, and Scent) to reflect Nightcrawler's more animal side,... The Pain & Suffering Mantle (Recall Agony, Share Pain, Empathic Feedback, & Affinity Field) to reflect his... ahem... more emo side... The Good Mantle (Protection from Evil, Celestial Conduit, Planar Embrace) to reflect his godly devotion... or even, the Time Mantle (Time Hop, Anticipatory Strike, Temporal Acceleration) to reflect what Nightcrawler would be like if he took speed =-P If you want the focus of the character to be both Teleporting and Hand-to-Hand combat, then the Psychic Warrior w/ the Freedom Mantle would work out well. You could probably pick up some good tips in creating a good hand-to-hand guy from the Psychic Warrior Build guide (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=860838). The best thing of all: both the Ardent and Psychic Warrior can kick some pretty mean butt, anyway...
rkun 07-20-07, 03:31 AM	nightcrawler has a shadowmeld ability so a hide in plain sight should be there. i think a ninja/shadowdancer would be best (just put some fluff into it). if you build your own class of PrC i deffinetly agree with krsuk in that of taking some type of damage and maybe even making a fort save to avoid be dazed. maybe he could designate a square roll a check if he misses roll a d8 to see were he goes, if the space is occupied maybe he falls prone in another random adjacent square. maybe even building a race that gives nighcrawler's str and agility. lowlight (maybe dark) vision, a +10move speed(?). another idea would be to make a specialized PrC in the lines of "master of the unseen hand" but with teleport and hop and dimension door specilizations. just kicking ideas at you let me know if you build your own class, i have a player who would enjoy it. EDIT: oh yeah and the Besm D20 can be a great sorce for ideas. but it can also be very hard to balance into DnD.
Leonis472 07-20-07, 11:33 AM	Forgot to mention this: High Reflex saves, and if he uses whatever teleport ability you give him, a +5 bonus to it. It might seem ridiculous, but if you could teleport with a thought and were trained to respond quickly to threats by dodging them with teleportation, it almost seems kinda low.
The_Mad_Linguist 07-20-07, 02:15 PM	Nobody's mentioned the PHB II's immediate magic abilities yet? A conjurer can trade their familiar for the ability to teleport ten feet as an immediate action int bonus times per day. It's called abrupt jaunt, and you can get it at level one. Add in some scaling (five feet + 1 extra use per level, maybe) and you're good to go.