Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kanachi 10-17-06, 08:46 AM	I never really liked the samurai class offered by wizards so I’ve always wanted to try to piece my own together from viewing my favourite films of reading my favourite books containing samurai. The samurai represented here is relies strongly on engaging and defeating a single target at a time rather than simply wailing into combat, this is done through the selection and defeating of marks. Also I wanted to approach the samurai in a bit more of a flexible manor, not all samurai were paladins, this class therefore allows for the rarer breed of non lawful samurai. I am sure it’s got numerous bugs but see what you think and please comment as you see fit. Thank you! Also I would like to note that though this class is called Samurai it could easily be used to represent a Ronin, Kensai or otherwise similar master of sword play. You could adjust the flavour here to meet the needs of nearly any warrior class that relies on challenging and defeating their foes individually – it does not even really need to be a swordsman. Basically what I’m offering here is a possible mechanic to allow you all to make something resembling a samurai without being restricted into any singular vision. You can make a fast, powerful, cunning or simple samurai with relative freedom. I would like to thank all those who have posted here and inspired me to ever improve this class, thank you. Finally I would also like to credit the two feats (Insightful Offence and Wisened Defence) to Serakus_DeSardis which I feel offer a lot to the classes potential, thank you for allowing me to display your feats here. Samurai Abilities Samurai often rely on a blend of strength, constitution and dexterity to defeat their foes however wisdom is also very important to a samurai, allowing her to gain the largest possible bonus from her look twice ability. Charisma can be useful to a samurai in allowing her to move within a battlefield unchallenged (using her intimidating combatant ability). Finally an intelligent samurai often becomes far more than a simple warrior and branches into more creative past times such as art, calligraphy or diplomatic relations. Alignment: any non-chaotic Hit Dice: d8 Class skills The samurai’s class skills (and key abilities for each) are: Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Bonsai) (Int), Craft (Painting) (Int), Craft (Writing) (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Iaijutsu Focus (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (History) (Int), Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty) (Int), Listen (Wis), Perform (Poetry) (Cha), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis) and Swim (Str). Skill points at first level: (4 + Int modifier) x 4 Skill points at each additional level: 4 + Int Modifier Weapon and armour proficiencies A samurai is proficient with all simple weapons, the Glaive, Guisarme, Halberd, Ranseur, longbow (including composite), short bow (including composite), Tanto, wakizashi, katana, Nagamaki, Naginata and Odachi. At third level a samurai may wield a katana in one hand without penalty (as a one-handed melee weapon). A samurai is proficient with all armours but not shields. A samurai who uses a shield will not benefit from her blade of the samurai, cut once, Ken-Jutsu or Greater Ken-Jutsu abilities whilst doing so. Samurai Progression Table LEVEL BAB FORT REF WILL SAVE-BONUS SPECIAL 1 1 0 0 0 +1 Mark (Way of the Samurai), Weapon Focus 2 2 0 0 0 0 Mark (Look Twice) 3 3 1 1 1 +1 Mark (Cut Once +1d6) 4 4 1 1 1 0 Bu-Jutsu 5 5 1 1 1 +1 Intimidating Combatant, The Formal Arts (+2) 6 6/1 2 2 2 0 - 7 7/2 2 2 2 +1 Mark (Cut Once +2d6) 8 8/3 2 2 2 0 Greater Weapon Focus (Choice) 9 9/4 3 3 3 +1 Path of the Samurai 10 10/5 3 3 3 0 Additional Mark 11 11/6/1 3 3 3 +1 Mark (Cut Once +3d6) 12 12/7/2 4 4 4 0 Greater Bu-Jutsu 13 13/8/3 4 4 4 +1 Mark (Pass Through) 14 14/9/4 4 4 4 0 The Formal Arts (+4) 15 15/10/5 5 5 5 +1 Mark (Cut Once +4d6), Greater Path of the Samurai 16 16/11/6/1 5 5 5 0 The Formal Arts (+6) 17 17/12/7/2 5 5 5 +1 - 18 18/13/8/3 6 6 6 0 The Formal Arts (+8) 19 19/14/9/4 6 6 6 +1 Mark (Cut Once +5d6) 20 20/15/10/5 6 6 6 0 Additional Mark Mark A samurai is a master of observation, able to study and adjust her stance mid-combat in order to counter her opponent’s actions. Once a samurai’s focus turns to a target she can often dispatch it with a singular deadly movement. As a free action (or immediate action, see bellow) a samurai may select a single target within 30 feet as her mark. Once a samurai has selected a mark she must slay or defeat it (by forcing its withdrawal or submission within combat). Should she fail somehow to defeat her mark, by being forced to retreat herself for example, she may not select another mark for 24 hours. A samurai may only select targets that would normally be subject to the effects of precision damage to be her mark, therefore the undead, oozes and constructs are all immune to this ability (should she acquire an ability, such as grave strike, that allows precision damage against such targets she will become able to mark them). Once selected a samurai gains numerous advantages over her mark that a common fighter would lack. These abilities improve over time and when combined can allow the samurai to dispatch entire regiments of lesser foes as well as more than match powerful ones. Should a mark be slain or defeated by a samurai a new mark may be chosen as an immediate action. If for some reason the mark perishes or is defeated before the samurai can act she may select a new mark as a free or immediate action. Save Bonus The exact make up of a successful Samurai is never easily identified, many are forged with great resilience while others rely more upon sharp reflexes and reaction several are highly regarded for their incredible levels of inner strength. Because of this a samurai periodically gains a single point every two levels which can be added to any of the three save types (fortitude, reflex or will) she chooses. Once a point is added to a save it cannot be undone, however there is no obligation for the next point to be added to the same save as the one previously chosen. Way of the samurai At a young age a samurai masters the technical of challenging and defeating her foes one at a time, picking apart enemy formations slowly by surely with an unmatched level of technical skill that boarders on artistry. Most practice their combat styles repetitively with a single weapon, endlessly practicing complex katas that improve their effectiveness with the weapon in question beyond the simple skills of lesser combatants. At 1st level the samurai may select a single weapon with which she is proficient. When using this weapon against her mark she is considered to have the critical threat range of her attacks doubled. This expansion to the weapons threat range does not stack with Keen weapons or the Improved Critical feat. Later at 7th level the samurai may select a second weapon with which their critical threat range doubles. Finally at 13th level they may select a third such weapon. Weapon Focus At 1st level samurai gains the weapon focus feat as a bonus feat, it may be selected for a single weapons that she is proficient with. Look Twice At 2nd level the samurai has learned great patience and will often wait for her adversaries to come to her rather than commit to the first action herself. The samurai may add her wisdom modifier (minimum of +1) to all attacks and damage rolls made against her mark through attacks of opportunity. This bonus to attack and damage rolls may not exceed a total equal to half her class level, thus at 2nd level a samurai may add a maximum of +1 while a 10th level samurai may add a maximum of +5. In addition if a samurai’s mark enters the samurai’s threatened area they will be subject to an attack of opportunity. A samurai may only gain this attack of opportunity against her mark on a turn where she has not moved from their current position (by any means). It’s also important to note that this attack of opportunity is a bonus to any standard attacks of opportunity a samurai may already have. A samurai will also only gain 1 such bonus attack of opportunity per mark per round (thus it’s not possible to gain multiple bonus attacks of opportunity against a mark that enters, move out of and then re-enters the samurai’s threatened area). Cut Once At 3rd level the samurai cuts threw her adversaries with ease often dismembering numerous assailants in swift succession. The samurai incurs an additional 1d6 points of damage to the first successful attack against her mark each round. This bonus to damage will increase every 4 levels thereafter (+2d6 at 7th level, +3d6 at 11th level, +4d6 at 15th level and +5d6 at 19th level). Bu-jutsu At 4th level tireless recital of complex katas has turned the samurai fighting style into a true (and deadly) art form. The samurai may select any 3 weapons with which she is proficient and gain a +2 bonus to her damage rolls when using them. Once these weapons are selected the decision can not be reversed. Later, at 12th level the samurai will receive the greater bu-jutsu ability and thus gain an additional +2 bonus to damage when using these weapons. Intimidating Combatant At 5th level samurai’s mere presence can often force those around her into a defensive position which she can use to her advantage to manoeuvre into more strategic positions. A Samurai may attempt to move at half her base land speed through threatened squares if she’s able to successfully pass a DC 15 intimidate check. This ability acts much as if the samurai had the tumble skill however she uses her intimidate skill instead of tumble skill to successfully bypass her adversaries. A samurai may attempt to move at her full speed (much like a rouge performing an accelerated tumble, albeit with greater difficulty) using her ability to intimidate her foes by accepting a -15 penalty on the check. Unlike a character using the tumble skill a samurai’s ability to intimidate is not effected by terrain or weather conditions. A samurai who has 5 or more ranks in both the tumble skill (having gained via a different class for example) and the intimidate skill gains a +2 competency bonus to both skills when using them to avoid attacks of opportunity. A knights 5th level ability, vigilant defender, functions against a samurais using this ability. The increase to DC affects a samurai’s intimidate skill just as it would a rogue’s ability to tumble. The Formal Arts At 5th level the samurai begins to truly form into not only a mighty warrior but also a skilled diplomat and artist. A samurai gains a +2 competency bonus to her craft (Bonsai), Craft (painting), Craft (Writing), diplomacy, perform (poetry) and ride skills. It’s not however until much later in a Samurai’s development that she truly begins to master such skills. At 14th, 16th and 18th levels the bonus to such skills increases by 2 incrementally (+4 at 14th level, +6 at 16th level and +8 at 18th level). Greater Weapon Focus At 8th level a samurai gains the greater weapon focus feat as a bonus feat. The feat may only be applied to whichever weapon she chose for her bonus weapon focus feat (see above). Path of the Samurai At 9th level a samurai tends to follow one of five paths, that of the earth, water, fire, wind and the heavens. A samurai must pick one of these paths and may not change the decision once it has been taken. Later at 15th level a samurai’s chosen path will allow them access to numerous specialised abilities. The path of the earth takes the samurai on an inner journey where they are said to discover true enlightenment. A samurai who follows this path may automatically pass a single will save once per day, the samurai must however declare their desire to use this ability before any dice are rolled. Water represents the fluid, flowing, formless things in the world. It refuses to be confined or hindered by physical restraints and allows a samurai who follows such a path to move with greater confidence and agility than she may otherwise be capable. A Samurai who follows this path moves at her base land speed when wearing medium and heavy armours and ignores up to 5 points of any armour check penalty she may have when performing balance, climb or jump checks. A samurai who follows the path of the fire is a fierce and unnerving adversary. A samurai who opts to follow this path gains half her class level to any intimidate checks she makes as a competency bonus and a +2 bonus to all grapple checks. The path of the wind takes the samurai into the shadows, where they often act as way watchers and scouts, sometimes even infiltrating enemy lines to better challenge and defeat their quarry. Some may consider such activities beneath a samurai’s code of honour, however several samurai regard such actions as a simple reality of life, warfare and intelligent combat. A samurai who follows this path may add half her class level (to a maximum of 6) to both her hide and move silently checks as a competency bonus. In addition the samurai also gains both the hide and move silently skill as class skills and may track her mark as though she had the track feat. The path of the heavens sees the samurai realise her potential as a leader of men and a skilled tactician in battle. A samurai who follows this path gains the leadership feat and a +2 bonus to her leadership score. If the samurai already has the leadership feat she gains an additional +2 bonus to her leadership score. Additional Mark At 10th level a samurai can mark an additional target that may then also fall victim to her numerous skills. Later at 20th level she may mark a third target. Greater Bu-Jutsu At 12th level a samurai’s deadly fighting skill is legend, the samurai adds an additional +2 to damage when using any of the 3 weapons she previously selected with her (see above). Pass Through At 13th level a samurai drives through her victims once slain, leaving their ruptured bodies in her wake as she presses on to engage her next foe. If a samurai slays her mark she may move to up to 10 feet as a free action that provokes no attacks of opportunity. This movement must be performed immediately after the slaying of samurais mark and may be performed as an immediate action. This additional movement does is not count towards a samurais regular movement quota. A samurai may not combine this movement with a bull rush or otherwise attempt to end her turn on an already occupied square. Greater Path of the Samurai At 15th level a samurai has followed their path to near conclusion. A samurai gains a specialised power based upon the path they elected to follow at 9th level. A samurai who reaches such a level of mastery when following the path of earth may re-role any will saves made against mind affecting or fear related checks (including Confusion, Charm and similar such spells). A samurai using this ability may only re-role a failed will save once for each such situation and must accept the result of the re-role even if its result is worse than the initial roll. A follower of the path of water ignores her entire armour check penalty when attempting balance, climb or jump checks. In addition a samurai who follows this path may move unhindered though any form of terrain that would normally reduce her movement, however terrain which has been magically altered to affect ones movement will still do so. Despite its name the path of water does not allow a samurai to move unhindered though terrain that requires either a swim or climb check (though she will still ignore any armour check penalty when climbing). One who has taken the path of fire to such a level of mastery has an indomitable presence upon the battle field. The samurai may opt to exchange her dexterity modifier to AC for an equal bonus to any attack and damage roles made against her mark until the beginning of her next round. A Samurai must firstly have a dexterity modifier to AC in order to be able to sacrifice it and secondly must be in a situation where her dexterity modifier would normally grant a bonus to AC (not when pinned for example). When a samurai takes the path of wind to such a level of mastery they become masters of the shadows and some often considered them akin to shinobi or even ninja; a statement that most other samurai would detest. The samurai gains blindsense to a distance of 30ft or increases the effective distance of any existing blindsense she already posses by 30ft (see page 305 of the Monster Manual). In addition the samurai gains both the camouflage and swift tracker abilities (see page 48 of the Players Handbook). It’s important to note however that a samurai who does not have the Track feat still has to mark her quarry before she can track it effectively. A samurai who has followed the path of the heavens to such a level of mastery often leads from the heart of a battle, her every victory inspiring those around her to perform ever greater deeds. Any ally’s turn which follows that of a samurai who’s mark has just been defeated gains a competency bonus to their attacks equal to the samurai’s charisma modifier (minimum of +1). The samurai must be directly responsible for defeating her mark (scoring the fatal damage or forcing it to flee or submit) in order for her allies to gain this bonus. Allies must also be within 5ft for every 2 levels of samurai the samurai possesses.
Kanachi 10-17-06, 08:47 AM	Feats Defensive Mobility Prerequisite: Samurai, may only be taken at first level. The samurai has trained from a young age at dodging blows rather than wearing heavy armours to absorb them. This training has granted her a sixth sense that allows her to avoid even unanticipated attacks. When un-armoured and unencumbered, a samurai so trained may add her wisdom modifier to her Armour Class. This feat does not stack with the comparable abilities of the monk (or that of any similar class, such as the ninja). In addition, the samurai will gain a +1 bonus to AC at 5th level. This bonus increases by 1 for every five samurai levels thereafter (+2 at 10th level, +3 at 15th level and +4 at 20th level). These bonuses to AC apply even against touch attacks or when a samurai is flat-footed. The samurai loses these bonuses when she is immobilized or helpless, when she wears any armour, when she carries a shield or when she carries a medium or heavy load. Wisened DefenceCredits for this feat go to Serakus_DeSardis The wise veteran has seen many battles. Prerequisites:BAB +5, Wis 13+ You may add your Wis bonus to your AC for a single attack each round. You must declare this bonus before the rolls. Insightful OffenceCredits for this feat go to Serakus_DeSardis An insightful warrior makes intuitive strikes. Prerequisites:BAB +5, Int 13+ You may add your Int bonus to a single attack roll each round. You must declare this bonus before the rolls. Hakama Proficiency It’s rare indeed for non-samurai to take on the specialised training required to use a hakama effectively in combat. Often such individuals will have observed a samurai training in the use of a hakama and through keen observation mastered its secrets. Prerequisites:Int 13+ The character may use a Hakama as though she had 1 or more levels in the samurai class. Equipment This section contains the rules for various weapons, armours and other equipment of importance to a samurai. Weapons A samurai may employ several weapons upon the field of battle. Bellow is a list of those most not ordinarily represented within the Players Handbook. Please note that while the katana is indeed listed here as a two-handed weapon it can be used one handed once a samurai attains third level or if a samurai acquires the necessary exotic weapon feat prior to that time. Light Melee Name Cost Dmg(S) Dmg(M) Critical Range Increment Weight Type Special -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tanto 300gp 1d3 1d4 19–20/x2 10ft 1lb. Slashing Masterwork Wakizashi 300gp 1d4 1d6 19–20/x2 — 3lb. Slashing Masterwork Two Handed Melee Name Cost Dmg(S) Dmg(M) Critical Range Increment Weight Type Special -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Katana 400gp 1d8 1d10 19–20/x2 — 6lb. Slashing Masterwork Nagamaki 8gp 1d6 2d4 x3 — 10lb. Slashing — Naginata 10gp 1d8 1d10 x3 — 15lb. Slashing 10 foot reach, non adjacent Odachi 600gp 1d10 2d6 19-20/x2 — 8lb. Slashing Masterwork Items Hakama A Hakama is a kind of skirt worn by a samurai to hide her footwork from her enemies during combat. When used correctly a Hakama can severally weakening the ability of a samurai’s opponent to predict her next move. A samurai wearing a Hakama reduces her marks dexterity bonus to AC by 1. A character whom does not poses 1 or more levels in the samurai class may still wear a Hakama but will gain no benefit from doing so. Cost: 25gp Weight: 2lb.
Asurya 10-17-06, 12:28 PM	ok, looks nice, but... why didn't you give this class the Iajutsu focus skill (in Oriental Adv.) and gave it the Iajutsu strike? :uh-huh: the mark system need slight modification IMO: free action is too short (without any Spot check moreover...): a character could "chain" low-HPed mobs in a few rounds. OTOH the consequences of a failed choice are quite dramatic!
Darth Sephiroth 10-17-06, 12:34 PM	I'd think Mark should be allowed to target creatures more than one size difference from them. I mean, when fighting a dragon or something the ability is useless.
Gideon_Gideonson 10-17-06, 12:46 PM	Three things caught my eye. The ability to deal +5d6 damage to your target with EVERY attack is a little two powerful. Its significantly more powerful than the scout's similiar ability. I'd tone it down to a max of 3d6 or put more requirements on it. Iajutsu focus should only work if your weapon is sheathed. And finally, the 10th level ability to INSTANTLY KILL THE MARK!!! is WAY overpowered. At 10th level, I have +10 BaB, Weapon Focus (Katana), Greater Weapon Focus (Katana), shall we say a +2 Katana, and maybe +5 Strength. That's an average of DC 29!! At level 10, not much can make it.
Kanachi 10-17-06, 06:06 PM	Thank you to everyone whos commented, your of great help and i hope to hear from you again regarding the changes i have made after reading your comments! Thanks once again! ok, looks nice, but... why didn't you give this class the Iajutsu focus skill (in Oriental Adv.) and gave it the Iajutsu strike? :uh-huh: the mark system need slight modification IMO: free action is too short (without any Spot check moreover...): a character could "chain" low-HPed mobs in a few rounds. OTOH the consequences of a failed choice are quite dramatic! I agree, a samurai's mark gives him a huge advantage over his selected foe, but lets not forget that he will be largely ineffectual against any foe able to either evade him or tie him up long enough for their lackeys to whittle him down. Only a foolish or highly skilled combatant takes on a samurai single handily (generally only another samurai). A samurai MUST slay or defeat his mark and move onto his next or he is likely to become little more than a guy with a fancy sword. Additionally a samurai is a master at taking out large amounts of lesser foes but could quite easily be bogged down and picked apart by more cunning or skilled adversaries. With our DM hats on I’m sure we can all see a multitude of ways to completely negate a samurai’s ability to even reach and attack his mark let alone actually kill it. How does a samurai counter a large quantity of flying foes? Or foes who are able to teleport? He probably wont unless his allies assist him. Oh, and i totally overlooked the Iajutsu focus skill, so i will add that, thankyou! Three things caught my eye. The ability to deal +5d6 damage to your target with EVERY attack is a little two powerful. Its significantly more powerful than the scout's similiar ability. I'd tone it down to a max of 3d6 or put more requirements on it. A scout can freely choose who she attacks and when as long as she can move 10 feet or more, a samurai must be in melee combat with his mark and therefore has to defeat his mark before the bonus to damage can shift. Iajutsu focus should only work if your weapon is sheathed. And finally, the 10th level ability to INSTANTLY KILL THE MARK!!! is WAY overpowered. At 10th level, I have +10 BaB, Weapon Focus (Katana), Greater Weapon Focus (Katana), shall we say a +2 Katana, and maybe +5 Strength. That's an average of DC 29!! At level 10, not much can make it. While i love the image of the samurai unsheathing his sword and slaying his foe its also comon for a samurai to dispatch numerious foes (each with a single attack). Therefore i've decided to rename the ability to Swift Blade Strike (if you can think of a better name please tell me!!!). I've also taken your advice and lessened the DC as you were right :) I'd think Mark should be allowed to target creatures more than one size difference from them. I mean, when fighting a dragon or something the ability is useless. I agree, though i may change it so that an swift blade strike cant be performed against foes of substantially greater size (what do you think?)
Silverthumb128 10-17-06, 09:33 PM	Its a pretty interesting idea for a Samurai class, with good execution, I think. Kinda Roguey, kinda Fightery, without being all fanboy-ish. I like the bonus points to saves, as well. It offers the possibilities of a quick Samurai, a tough one, a determined one, or any combination of the three. Looks good, from what I can tell.
Animana 10-17-06, 09:52 PM	Iajutsu Focus should definitely be a class skill. Also, swift blade strike should not be a tenth level ability. Perhaps around 18-20. Otherwise, I think it looks fine.
Kanachi 10-18-06, 05:11 AM	Iajutsu Focus should definitely be a class skill. Also, swift blade strike should not be a tenth level ability. Perhaps around 18-20. Otherwise, I think it looks fine. Yup, Iajutsu Focus is a class skill. :) As for Swift Blade Strike at 10th level... well bare in mind that any number of classes get save or die attacks by level 10, several get them well before 10th level. By 18th level save and die effects are flying all over the place, many of which effect multiple targets. Still i'm not imovable on the idea of movng it to a later level. Interesting idea :) Its a pretty interesting idea for a Samurai class, with good execution, I think. Kinda Roguey, kinda Fightery, without being all fanboy-ish. I like the bonus points to saves, as well. It offers the possibilities of a quick Samurai, a tough one, a determined one, or any combination of the three. Looks good, from what I can tell. Really glad you like it. Creating a samurai who has the feel of a character from an Akira Kurosawa film is hard as they are super human in ability, able to cut through numerious foes with great skill, speed, power, resiliance and will power. Of course you cant creat a class like this as it would be hopelessly overpowered, so i opted to give the player an option as to how they want to build their samurai. I think the bonus points to saves are an idea that could be adopted to other classes to allow them a greater sence of customisation, what do you think?
Mandarbgrim 10-19-06, 12:20 PM	Save Idea is interesting for all classes, but I wouldn't use it unless you were using it for them all. I can't remark on the actual flavor, but I like the idea of having a class specializing in dueling. It kinda seems like a cross between a Knight & Hexblade in play <Hexblade because 1 on 1 they can be really good if you are using supplement additions to the class.> If the attraction of the class, besides flavor, is that it is really good against a single opponent then it should be weak against multiple opponents <Comparing to an equal level Warrior class.> With that in mind I would lose the multiple Mark abilities. Using Intimidate in place of Tumble is a pretty awesome idea. I am thinking of creating a feat to do that after reading this. I would make a not that Blade of Samurai doesn't stack with Keen or Improved Critical. If it does, I wouldn't allow it to for quite a few levels. <Make it start stacking around lvl 9 or so. I would also put a note that the AoO doesn't stack with a readied action to act when they enter your square. Have you looked at the Duel of Wills alternate Intimidate use in the Tome of Battle? I think I am going to still the "Mark" idea & Intimidating Combatant.
Iarmeister 10-19-06, 12:31 PM	Cool class, mang! BTW, Duel of Wills in ToB, as suggested by the previous poster, would be perfect for this class!
Kanachi 11-15-06, 07:25 PM	Finally got round to updating my samurai base class! I decided ultimately to remove swift blade strike ability and instead replaced it with the path of samurai, which allows for greater customisation and individuality of a samurai. This ability will hopefully allow people to make a number of differing samurai’s who can fit the large variety of different visions people have as to what exactly a samurai is or should be like. I’ve also made a number of changes based on the great advice you all gave me when you made your reviews, so thank you to everyone who has helped me. I’d also like to make a new first level only feat for the samurai that allows you to gain an AC bonus similar to (but not as good as) that of the monk so people can play as an un-armoured samurai if they so desire. I’m sorry for the long wait in my re-vamping of this class I hope you all like it :) Cool class, mang! BTW, Duel of Wills in ToB, as suggested by the previous poster, would be perfect for this class! sorry i dont have this book :( what is this?
Iarmeister 11-15-06, 08:30 PM	sorry i dont have this book :( what is this? Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords.
Manyfist 11-15-06, 08:50 PM	I think the Crane should have "No armor checks apply to: Tumble" as well a +10' speed. Also the Tiger should have the same thing as the Crane but for Jumping, and gain a +2 attack bonus to the opponet if he succeds a Jump check (DC=Targets AC). The Snake should have no armor pent for hide and move silently checks. It would be Speed v. Stealth v. Jump. Other than that, I think the class is a GREAT deal better than the Complete Warrior Samurai. WoTC should listen to people more often than the not.
Draconian_Cloud 11-15-06, 09:18 PM	I really like this class man. Do you think you could maybe make another version of the Ninja :D I think it could be done slightly better. Seeya :cool:
LordArchaon 11-15-06, 10:53 PM	Great class! You won't belive it, I already adapted the class and created a VIKING build... Take a look here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=10654825#post10654825). ..
Kanachi 11-16-06, 08:30 AM	Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords. Top stuff, thank you! Any chance of a hint as to what exactly that ability does? So I can evaluate its merits? I think the Crane should have "No armor checks apply to: Tumble" as well a +10' speed. Also the Tiger should have the same thing as the Crane but for Jumping, and gain a +2 attack bonus to the opponet if he succeds a Jump check (DC=Targets AC). The Snake should have no armor pent for hide and move silently checks. It would be Speed v. Stealth v. Jump. Other than that, I think the class is a GREAT deal better than the Complete Warrior Samurai. WoTC should listen to people more often than the not. Some nice ideas there, thank you! I'll mull over them and may well implement one or two of them. I do want to make the 3 paths quite different from one another though, so people who want to play a more realistic samurai have a path while people who want to go a slightly more anime samurai can also find a path that best suits them as well. Someone on another board recommended also making a 4th path (he called it the path of the Lion) which makes you a skilled leader and tactician, so I like that idea a lot as well. If you have any ideas for any other paths, (maybe a path of the dragon) give me a shout also. I'm really glad you like the class, i hope it can fill a few of those holes that i think alot of us can see in the standard samurai class. I really like this class man. Do you think you could maybe make another version of the Ninja I think it could be done slightly better. Seeya Wow! I've never been requested to make a class before, so thank you very much! I do agree that I find the Ninja class a bit lacking so I’ll take a peek and see what I can do, the ninja however may take a little longer to construct as the topic of a "ninja" is even more convoluted than that of a samurai (if you can imagine such a thing). While you wait however I can tell you that a number of people on these boards have made some darn good ninja and shinobi base classes. So maybe you might want to try out one of those first as your faith in me may well end up being miss placed. lol Great class! You won't belive it, I already adapted the class and created a VIKING build... Take a look here... You made one of the samurai’s mortal enemies from this build!?! I should remove my own hands for making such a thing possible. lol Seriously though, I think that’s fantastic stuff, in fact that’s the highest praise you can get when making a base class really (someone else using your work to make something they like better). So thanks very much, i like the build as well, very nice use of the different classes (especially this one, *shameless plug, lol*) and its really quite potent while not being utterly broken. I like!
Kanachi 11-16-06, 11:16 AM	I've added a feat that can be taken at first level, which basicly allows you to play as an un-armoured samurai (for those who like their samurai's like that). I've also added a path of the Lion, which basicly gives a player the option of casting their samurai as leader or ultimatly even a general. thanks!
Iarmeister 11-16-06, 12:25 PM	Top stuff, thank you! Any chance of a hint as to what exactly that ability does? So I can evaluate its merits? Duel of Wills (paraphrased): Basically, it's a new Intimidate skill that let's you stare down a chosen opponent (within 30' of you) immediately before initiative is first rolled in combat. The opponent, whose will to fight you are trying to crush, is allowed 3 options: Submit, Ignore, or Participate. If they Submit, than they are automatically saddled with penalties for the first round of combat. If they Ignore, than you make a skill check to gain a bonus against them for 1 round. If they participate, than it's an opposed intimidate check. The winner gets a bonus against the loser for the entire encounter, AND the loser gets a penalty against the winner for the entire combat. ToB is really a ick-say ass-ay book. Pick it up if and when you can!
Kanachi 11-16-06, 12:48 PM	Duel of Wills (paraphrased): Basically, it's a new Intimidate skill that let's you stare down a chosen opponent (within 30' of you) immediately before initiative is first rolled in combat. The opponent, whose will to fight you are trying to crush, is allowed 3 options: Submit, Ignore, or Participate. If they Submit, than they are automatically saddled with penalties for the first round of combat. If they Ignore, than you make a skill check to gain a bonus against them for 1 round. If they participate, than it's an opposed intimidate check. The winner gets a bonus against the loser for the entire encounter, AND the loser gets a penalty against the winner for the entire combat. ToB is really a ick-say ass-ay book. Pick it up if and when you can! I like the sound of this! It fits in really nicely with the class as you said it would. Perhaps I could even make a path that grants the samurai an intimidate bonus against her mark (which would also let her use her intimidating combatant ability against it with greater effect). One thing though if I want to use these rules do I need to note them somewhere within the class? Or are they simply open to anyone with the intimidate skill (in which case I don’t need to do anything?). Thank you once again!
Elemental_Master 11-16-06, 03:52 PM	I think that the samurai needs a few more marks. Most of his abbilitys are reliant on the mark and once it dies your now done and are weaker than the fighter. Maybe make it take a full action to study the foe to mark it. Give him an extra 5 marks and it could make this class stand on it's feat as a boss slayer.
Kanachi 11-16-06, 04:49 PM	I think that the samurai needs a few more marks. Most of his abbilitys are reliant on the mark and once it dies your now done and are weaker than the fighter. Maybe make it take a full action to study the foe to mark it. Give him an extra 5 marks and it could make this class stand on it's feat as a boss slayer. I'm not sure if I wrote it badly, but basically it’s a free action (or immediate action if the mark dies out of your turn) to select a mark. Thus when your mark dies you are far from useless you simply move on to your next one. The real issue here is that a samurai who flees from his mark or is defeated by it is screwed for 24 hours. So this can be bad if you fight the kind of battle that you really can’t win and thus have to withdraw from. That however is a huge part of the flavour and a great opportunity for role playing. It could represent the samurai berating himself for failing to prevail in combat.
LordArchaon 11-16-06, 05:12 PM	You made one of the samurai’s mortal enemies from this build!?! I should remove my own hands for making such a thing possible. lol Seriously though, I think that’s fantastic stuff, in fact that’s the highest praise you can get when making a base class really (someone else using your work to make something they like better). So thanks very much, i like the build as well, very nice use of the different classes (especially this one, *shameless plug, lol*) and its really quite potent while not being utterly broken. I like! Thanks! I think your class will be intensively used in my campaign! The new feat for unarmored samurais is great too. Add more paths! :D
mkill 11-16-06, 07:32 PM	Erm, erm... do I read that correctly? "her"? Your example samurai is female? I mean, of course there were samurai women, as samurai were a social class, but you are aware that samurai women were not supposed to fight with the sword... never ever. But did you know that some samurai women were trained in the use of the Naginata for self-defense? Now I guess modern political correctness is more important to you than any historical reference, but please... this goes too far. It does help to know at least a little bit of history before designing such a class. Oh, and please don't add that serpent / tiger / lion stuff. Japanese fighting styles don't imitate animals. That's cheesy Hong Kong movie Kung Fu. I know it's very popular, but it was already annoying in the Legend of the Five Rings RPG and I hate that everybody thinks it's so cool to copy it.
Iarmeister 11-16-06, 07:42 PM	Erm, erm... do I read that correctly? "her"? Your example samurai is female? I mean, of course there were samurai women, as samurai were a social class, but you are aware that samurai women were not supposed to fight with the sword... never ever. But did you know that some samurai women were trained in the use of the Naginata for self-defense? Now I guess modern political correctness is more important to you than any historical reference, but please... this goes too far. It does help to know at least a little bit of history before designing such a class. Oh, and please don't add that serpent / tiger / lion stuff. Japanese fighting styles don't imitate animals. That's cheesy Hong Kong movie Kung Fu. I know it's very popular, but it was already annoying in the Legend of the Five Rings RPG and I hate that everybody thinks it's so cool to copy it. I know Hollywood has made Animal Style Kung Fu popular, but the reality is that Chinese Kung Fu has plenty of forms, and even entire styles, based on the movements of animals. That said...I did specify Chinese martial arts, right??
Kanachi 11-16-06, 07:48 PM	Erm, erm... do I read that correctly? "her"? Your example samurai is female? I mean, of course there were samurai women, as samurai were a social class, but you are aware that samurai women were not supposed to fight with the sword... never ever. But did you know that some samurai women were trained in the use of the Naginata for self-defense? Now I guess modern political correctness is more important to you than any historical reference, but please... this goes too far. It does help to know at least a little bit of history before designing such a class. I know what your getting at, but by that logic you could say there should be no female fighters or knights or well... any class really because in traditional warfare they were rarely (if ever) involved. This is fiction however and we have to assume, therefore, that in the real world of dnd sexism is not really an issue. Plus I suppose its force of habit (bad excuse I know) I always write my classes as though they were female. Its flawed logic but I tend to think of it like talking about a ship so I use terms like "she", "her" and so on. I don’t mind you criticising my work for not being historically accurate (though I do know a bit about the history of both the fictional and real samurai), or saying its broken or whatever but simply dismissing it because I refer to a female samurai is a bit off in my opinion. You gave no example of anything that was actually wrong with the class, you simply said I had no understanding of history… Which would be fine if say I had said katana were bight pink and looked like melons or something, but meh... I’ll just let you think about it, I’m not in the business of starting flames anyway. Oh, and please don't add that serpent / tiger / lion stuff. Japanese fighting styles don't imitate animals. That's cheesy Hong Kong movie Kung Fu. I know it's very popular, but it was already annoying in the Legend of the Five Rings RPG and I hate that everybody thinks it's so cool to copy it. Well, while the Japanese didn't have fighting styles based around animals they did actually mysticise them. They had a zodiac for example which contains tigers and snakes (serpent simply sounds better in my opinion, but if you wish you can change that). I should really use a Herron instead of a Crane, and possibly a Boar or Dragon instead of a Lion, I agree. Another more elegant way would probably be to refer to the 5 elements (Chi, Sui, Ka, Fu and Ku - earth, water, fire, wind and the heavens). Either way the paths aren’t really meant to represent fighting styles, they are instead ways of thinking or acting, which is represented by the mechanics, which I assume you have read.
PrinceCurtis 11-16-06, 08:32 PM	shouldn't that be no dachi? with that stats of a masterwork fullblade.... or maybe it's just me thinking that's what sethphiroth's weapon is corect me if i'm wrong and as for as the female context that's traditon to right it that way.
Kanachi 11-17-06, 05:50 AM	shouldn't that be no dachi? with that stats of a masterwork fullblade.... or maybe it's just me thinking that's what sethphiroth's weapon is corect me if i'm wrong and as for as the female context that's traditon to right it that way. No Dachi and Ôdachi are the same thing... well basicly anyway
Archangel62 11-17-06, 06:05 AM	Well, one other idea might be what a friend and I are doing for our gameworld. We have 8 Clans, each one has access to one of the schools of the Tome of Battle. The only exception being the Ironheart discipline, that was a creation of people from the main continent who observed their styles and desired to emulate their techniques.
Kanachi 11-17-06, 10:49 AM	Well, one other idea might be what a friend and I are doing for our gameworld. We have 8 Clans, each one has access to one of the schools of the Tome of Battle. The only exception being the Ironheart discipline, that was a creation of people from the main continent who observed their styles and desired to emulate their techniques. I really do need to get that book by the sounds of it. lol I do agree that the choice of animals representing the paths is not 100% desirable. I'll probably change them to Japanese elements (listed in my post above).
PrinceCurtis 11-17-06, 11:16 AM	my bad it's a masterwork greatsword the fullblade is the variation
Archangel62 11-17-06, 01:20 PM	I really do need to get that book by the sounds of it. lol I do agree that the choice of animals representing the paths is not 100% desirable. I'll probably change them to Japanese elements (listed in my post above). Actually most of them work already, what we did in ours was Fire: Desert Wind Earth: Stone Dragon Water: Diamond Mind Air: Shadow Hand Metal: Tiger Claw Wood: Setting Sun Dragon: Devoted Spirit Lion: White Raven
Kanachi 11-18-06, 01:21 PM	kool, i like the sound of this. I'll probably make the changes when i get a bit of free time. Thanks very much for the advice!
FreAkOuTRG 11-18-06, 02:48 PM	I was really expecting this to be horribly over/under powered, but it looks pretty nicely done. I personally think that samurai shouldn't really be a class, but this is well enough done that I don't mind it as much. However, perhaps you should adapt it so that they could use the naginata? And yuri (I think that's what it's called, not sure). Naginata's are basically glaives, and yuri(?) is a bow.
Kanachi 11-19-06, 03:14 PM	I was really expecting this to be horribly over/under powered, but it looks pretty nicely done. I personally think that samurai shouldn't really be a class, but this is well enough done that I don't mind it as much. However, perhaps you should adapt it so that they could use the naginata? And yuri (I think that's what it's called, not sure). Naginata's are basically glaives, and yuri(?) is a bow. I'm glad you like the class, I also agree that in many respects a pretty good samurai can be built out of the fighter. What I have here is more of a mechanic for building something a little more specialised. I've added Naginata to the weapon list (which I had forgotten to do) and freed up the ability for the player to make a samurai who specialises in more than just sword play. In addition I’ve changed the paths to follow traditional Japanese elements rather than animal styles, so hopefully this will give the class a greater sense of flavour. This also let me add a 5th path (earth), which basically acts as the “enlightened” samurai path. Oh, and the Yumi is what I think your referring to… this was basically a Japanese bow (one end of which is typically longer than the other). A Yari (similar sounding word) is a common type of Japanese spear. The following terms may also interest you if you want to describe the particular fighting style of your samurai (warning! loose translations here as I’m not a pro). Budo: A broad term for describing martial or fighting arts, often used instead of bu-jutsu. Bu-jutsu means (loosely) "science of war" while Budo means (loosely once again) "the way of war". It’s up to you to decide which is more closely linked to the way your samurai considers the martial arts. Bo-jutsu : staff fighting Ken-jutsu: sword fighting Kyo-jutsu: bow and arrow fighting Kyuba no michi: horse and bow fighting Naginata-jutsu: Naginata fighting (surprisingly) So-jutsu: spear fighting I may have forgotten 1 or 2, but meh… I hope that helps you guys add some flavour.
Kanachi 11-21-06, 05:17 AM	:bump:
LordArchaon 11-23-06, 07:33 PM	I like the paths, but I see the Wind path as a little under-powered, just a thought... It could add another stealth-related bonus with no problems, to me... Oh, and the Heavens path is a bit too powerful also! What about splitting path bonuses in two levels? The havens path could first give leadership and then the bonus to the allies (or the opposite) and then you could make every path splitted into a "bonus feat" part and a "special bonus" part. Referring to the Wind path, it could give a stealthy feat like Deft Strike (ignoring the requirements) or Death Blow. Every path could let the palyer choose between two bonus feats too... Related feats for the other paths could be: Earth: Eyes in the Back of your Head, Faster Healing, Hear the Unseen, (all from Complete Warrior), Remain Conscious (Oriental Adventures but maybe other updated sources available), Indomitable Soul, Vatic Gaze (this one strange and obviously skipping the reqs! it makes Earth more "magic"...) (these last ones from PHB2) Fire: [all these one should go instead of the grapple bonus] Kiai Shout, Intimidating Strike (obviously! from PHB2), Reckless Offence, Stand Still (both from Expanded Psionic Handbook, but nothing to do with psionics) Water: Leap Attack (in order to use the jump "bonus"), Combat Acrobat (fits perfectly, gains new uses for balance skill, from PHB2), Mobility, Karmic Srike (don't know if it's more Water or Fire...) Wind: Deft Strike (powerful, from Complete Adventurer), Death Blow, Combat Tactician (from PHB2) Heaven could not give any choice and give Authority and maybe also the +2 bonus. Tell me what you think!
dark_nony 11-24-06, 01:43 PM	I think the artist checks sould not be ther, I dont think its the good skill for a samurai. Try Iuijutsu skill from OA.
Kanachi 11-27-06, 08:33 AM	Ok, I’ve finally got round to making a whole host of little changes to the class, so I’m very sorry for keeping you all waiting. The changes in this new version are as follows: 1. shurikens are out of the weapon list 2. craft (bonsai), craft (painting), craft (writing) and perform (poetry) are all in 3. Added two feats (Insightful Offence and Wisened Defence) by Serakus_DeSardis to the new feats list. 4. added a hakama proficiency feat 5. fiddled once again with the paths 6. added a second tier to the paths (at 15th level) which offer some interesting abilities to the class 7. maybe one or two other things, I forget now, sorry (its late here) Anyway thank you very much to everyone who has helped me improve the class no end with their great ideas. I think the artist checks sould not be ther, I dont think its the good skill for a samurai. Try Iuijutsu skill from OA. Samurai were far more than warriors and many took a great deal of time learning to write or paint. If your talking about the Iaijutsu Focus skill i think I’ve already added it, perhaps i should buff it at later levels however. Thanks for the advice though! I like the paths, but I see the Wind path as a little under-powered, just a thought... It could add another stealth-related bonus with no problems, to me... Oh, and the Heavens path is a bit too powerful also! What about splitting path bonuses in two levels? The havens path could first give leadership and then the bonus to the allies (or the opposite) and then you could make every path splitted into a "bonus feat" part and a "special bonus" part. Referring to the Wind path, it could give a stealthy feat like Deft Strike (ignoring the requirements) or Death Blow. Every path could let the palyer choose between two bonus feats too... Thanks very much for the advice! I’ve added a second tier to the samurai's path at 15th level. I've also improved the path of wind a little and spread the path of the heavens out over the 2 teirs. I hope that makes them more even. I don’t really want to make the path system a wide choice (or even restricted choice) of feats however as it starts to become very similar to the fighter that way. Also most of the bonuses given though the paths a samurai follows are supposed to be passive and not (in general) combat related, this stops the class from being overpowered I think. Thanks you once again for your thoughts! :D
DarknessEternal 11-27-06, 01:01 PM	Where's the mounted combat and archery? Without those, it's guy-with-sword, not a samurai.
Kanachi 11-27-06, 02:43 PM	Where's the mounted combat and archery? Without those, it's guy-with-sword, not a samurai. Well you can choose a bow as one of your 3 chosen weapons (just as you can a sword).. so that’s kind of covered. Samurai were not however legendary shots with a bow so I see no need to give them extra buffs when using bows (especially as you have plenty of free feats left to do so). As for mounted riding, I agree with you it should be represented slightly better, I will probably add a bonus to the samurais ride skill in as one of his formal arts. As before however a player has numerous spare feats with which to specialise in mounted combat (which not all samurai did). Also as before a samurai can select a long spear (closest thing I can think of mechanically to match a samurai’s riding spear, which was not a lance after all), Nagamaki (samurai’s mounted sword) or Naginata (sometimes used on horse back by samurai) as their chosen weapons. Of course another way would be to offer a samurai an option of either Intimidating Combatant OR a steed similar to a paladins at 5th level. This would represent the difference between a mounted or infantry specialising samurai. Would these changes work for you?
cthascott 11-27-06, 04:42 PM	:bow: This is SO much better than the CW Samurai. Thanks for taking the time to making me dig a prevelant historical archtype as a DnD character rather than a terrible excuse for a Fighter-wannabe. I didn't particularly care for the OA setting, but this rocks the socks. Thanks Kanachi. I'm highly interested in the Ninja build you might be doing, keep us posted big dog.
Kanachi 11-27-06, 05:28 PM	:bow: This is SO much better than the CW Samurai. Thanks for taking the time to making me dig a prevelant historical archtype as a DnD character rather than a terrible excuse for a Fighter-wannabe. I didn't particularly care for the OA setting, but this rocks the socks. Thanks Kanachi. I'm highly interested in the Ninja build you might be doing, keep us posted big dog. Hehe, thanks! though a good portion of the pros in this build should be dedicated to all you guys for constantly helping me make it better and better. So thanks to everyone whos given pointers, it really does help. I have been working on some ideas for a ninja class, though i've been quite bogged down lately, so i'm sorry its taken so long. I want to try to create something with a quite unique and fitting feel which the ninja deserves, not a simple "i'm a rouge in black pajamas" guy... even though some people may consider that to be the case.
LordArchaon 11-27-06, 07:40 PM	Great updates to the class! Yes, bonus feats would have made it to similar to the fighter... Regarding a new ninja, I would strongly consider psionics and/or material from Tome of Battle... Just a thought. Maybe a totally different approach to psionics, like warlock's approach to magic, could describe well the ninja "powers". I would just want to find an alternative to "Ki points", maybe by using something that's already "officially balanced"
Kanachi 11-28-06, 05:39 AM	Great updates to the class! Yes, bonus feats would have made it to similar to the fighter... Regarding a new ninja, I would strongly consider psionics and/or material from Tome of Battle... Just a thought. Maybe a totally different approach to psionics, like warlock's approach to magic, could describe well the ninja "powers". I would just want to find an alternative to "Ki points", maybe by using something that's already "officially balanced" I'm glad you like the changes to the class! :D As for the ninja: I will probably have powers that are "purchased" each level though use of a ninjas wisdom modifier, some powers costing more than others and making wisdom important to a ninja beyond just spot and listen checks. Each power will open up other powers within its tier (stealth, combat, mystic powers, acrobatics, etc...). So you can build a ninja who is quite individual and as real world or fantastical as you want. I can’t really say much more than that at the moment as I’m still only just starting out on it all to be honest. A ninja is a lot more of a complex challenge than a samurai. Hopefully I will have a build for you all soon though :)
LordArchaon 11-28-06, 10:45 PM	I would suggest you to get your hands over Tome of Battle... :) I think you could then create a new ninja-only discipline (eventually more than one) and make it the basis on which the class constructs... As for psionics, it was just my personal liking, but you could actually risk to make another Lurk or Psychic Assasin. However, take your time and I'm sure you'll deliver a good ninja!
The_Alchemic_Samurai 11-29-06, 01:13 PM	I think it looks quite nice. Very fun, looks playable, I'll have to test this class variant out when I get some time.:twocents:
Kanachi 11-29-06, 03:11 PM	I would suggest you to get your hands over Tome of Battle... :) I think you could then create a new ninja-only discipline (eventually more than one) and make it the basis on which the class constructs... As for psionics, it was just my personal liking, but you could actually risk to make another Lurk or Psychic Assasin. However, take your time and I'm sure you'll deliver a good ninja! Yer i really need that book, i work in a copywrite libary and we just got a copy so i'll probably take a gander at it once its catalogued. I hear good things about it :) I think it looks quite nice. Very fun, looks playable, I'll have to test this class variant out when I get some time. Thankyou very much i'm very glad you like the class, i wanted to try something a little different and (with alot of help from everyone on the boards) i think its payed off rather well. Lol maybe i've reached the stage where i can just call it a plain "NEW" instead of "NEWISH" samurai. What do ya think?
FreAkOuTRG 11-29-06, 04:40 PM	A few housekeeping stuff: At 1st level the samurai is considered to have the critical threat range of her Tanto, wakizashi, katana and Odachi attacks doubled when fighter against her mark. This expansion to the weapons threat range does not stack with Keen weapons or the Improved Critical feat.You mean fighting? In addition, if using one of these weapons a samurai will always gain a single attack of opportunity against her mark if they enter her threatened area - provided they have moved 10 or more feet to get there. If a samurai still has attacks of opportunities left, does this count towards the limit? How about: In addition, if using one of these weapons a samurai gains an extra attack of opportunity towards her mark. Thus, a samurai has two attacks of opportunities per round, as long as one of those attacks are against her mark. A samurai with combat reflexes has a number of attacks of opportunities equal to 2 plus her dexterity modifier, as long as one of those attacks are against her mark. At 1st level samurai gains the weapon focus feat as a bonus feat. For what? All of a samurais weapons? Significally overpowered. If it is one weapon, is it limited to katana, wakizashi or tanto? At 2nd level the samurai has learned great patience and will often wait for her adversaries to come to her rather than commit to the first action herself. The samurai may add her wisdom modifier (minimum of +1) to all attacks and damage rolls made against her mark through attacks of opportunity. Maybe limit by level (+1 attack/damage per level, up to Wis) Cut once works fine, I think. Not sure about Bu-jutsu. How does Intimidating combatant work with the Knight class? At 5th level they add their class levels to the DC to tumble past their squares. Does this applie to samurai using intimidate? I don't see a problem with the formal arts. Greater Weapon Focus At 8th level a samurai gains the greater weapon focus feat as a bonus feat provided that it is chosen for whichever weapon she selected for her bonus weapon focus feat (see above). So it IS just one weapon. Still might want to specify that. Other than that, I like it
Kanachi 12-04-06, 07:01 PM	Hiya everyone once again! I'm sorry its taken so long, once more, to update the class... well sorry to those who care, those who don’t are probably sick of me updating it (in which case why are you reading this?! lol). Anyway, thanks once again to everyone who has taken interest. You mean fighting? lol, thanks, yes i do. You win the golden cookie! don’t eat it for it shall chip thy teeth. If a samurai still has attacks of opportunities left, does this count towards the limit? How about: In addition, if using one of these weapons a samurai gains an extra attack of opportunity towards her mark. Thus, a samurai has two attacks of opportunities per round, as long as one of those attacks are against her mark. A samurai with combat reflexes has a number of attacks of opportunities equal to 2 plus her dexterity modifier, as long as one of those attacks are against her mark. I've tried to clarify (and have also slightly adjusted) what I meant here so I hope it makes more sense now. Basically it represents a samurai being skilled enough to strike a marked foe as they approach, not just when they move past. It does however require them to stand still now (stops 5 or even 10 foot step munchkining). For what? All of a samurais weapons? Significally overpowered. If it is one weapon, is it limited to katana, wakizashi or tanto? Only 1 weapon, but it can be any they are proficient with (this allows you to specialise as a yari, yumi, Naginata or whatever else fighter. Maybe limit by level (+1 attack/damage per level, up to Wis) Not sure about this, you may be right, unimplemented ATM. How does Intimidating combatant work with the Knight class? At 5th level they add their class levels to the DC to tumble past their squares. Does this applie to samurai using intimidate? I've improved the description of the ability and added more details about how it functions (and how it can be used). Anyway, in short... yes a knights ability would still function against a samurai, mainly because I read the knight to be to stubborn to give ground easily to a samurai. Thankyou for all your help once again!
Kanachi 12-07-06, 02:25 PM	captain bumpage to the rescue!! :bump:
stuporhero93 12-07-06, 02:58 PM	Nice I loved it!!!!! I gotta give you prps for that work of DnD art.:clap: I was wondering if you could add new path that would be good for evils. it would give her an aura of fear and make her more ruthless and cold or something like that.
dark_nony 12-07-06, 03:08 PM	I tested your samurai (levels 1-20) and...... It was great! Not to strong not to weak. And for the ninja, i realy think you should give him a fighter BAB, D8 hp, rouge sneak attacks and some abilitis with weapons (katana, daggers, shurikan) or samthing. I look forword to it. ;)
Kanachi 12-07-06, 03:27 PM	Nice I loved it!!!!! I gotta give you prps for that work of DnD art.:clap: I was wondering if you could add new path that would be good for evils. it would give her an aura of fear and make her more ruthless and cold or something like that. thankyou very much! Im actually working on a good and an evil path at the moment, so hopefully i'll add something in a few days when i've had a chance to play test it through. I'm still not entirely sure how well these two options may fit in with the class, but i will probably offer them up to those who wish for such flavour none the less :) Thanks once again!! I tested your samurai (levels 1-20) and...... It was great! Not to strong not to weak. And for the ninja, i realy think you should give him a fighter BAB, D8 hp, rouge sneak attacks and some abilitis with weapons (katana, daggers, shurikan) or samthing. I look forword to it. Wow! thanks very much for testing it out, i'm honoured! If your up to it i'de love to hear how you thought its abilities worked out mechanicaly as you played. Thankyou very much once again!
dark_nony 12-08-06, 12:17 PM	About my campain: We hade this arch enemy thet most bosses wher to fight him again, your samurai was great to pot him as a mark. I hade a katana at one hand and a wakizashi at the other. I loved to pot a lot to intimidat skill, artist skills where not the funest thing to have. He i hade no armor so i had high wiz so it was also fun to find all the sneaky monsters. But what i just loved to do is, have high dex, full Iaijutsu Focus skill, quick draw and the improved initiative feet, where does thet lead? Mass damage at first round of battle!
vahju 12-08-06, 10:38 PM	I have not read all the posts in detail so hopefully this comment was not mentioned earlier. Your "blade of the Samuri" ability seems a bit powerful for first level character. Being able to double your crit range with several weapons and get free attacks seems a bit much. This should be broken out or get additional abilities as the character gains levels.
TheOtherWaffle 12-10-06, 08:37 AM	This is an amazing class. I am currently playing one in the Underdark campaign and it works well. Great balance with the other classes and provides some flavor if you want to RP. One question... could mark be used on incorporeal creatures? because if you can I just 1 hitted a CR 7 shadow elemental. ANd I'd get a chance to prove my DM wrong.
Kanachi 12-10-06, 07:14 PM	This is an amazing class. I am currently playing one in the Underdark campaign and it works well. Great balance with the other classes and provides some flavor if you want to RP. One question... could mark be used on incorporeal creatures? because if you can I just 1 hitted a CR 7 shadow elemental. ANd I'd get a chance to prove my DM wrong. I'm really glad you enjoy the class and would love to hear how it’s worked out for you. Which aspects do you like? not like? Please keep me posted on how the class plays out for you as well :D As for your question… I'm afraid as I have it written at the moment an incorporeal creature can’t be marked. This could be something which you and your DM can negotiate over if you’re in a campaign which contains a particularly large amount of such creatures. I may well also create a feat or two which allows the marking of such creatures, on a temporary basis you and your DM could agree to make a feat containing such options named thusly (just ideas): Mark of the grave (allows marking against undead) Mark of the ghost (allows marking against incorporeal) Mark of the machine (allows marking against constructs) On a side note I would probably say that if a class such as a ninja using his/her ghost step ability becomes incorporeal a samurai would have the option of: A: Instantly selecting a new mark B: Maintaining the target as a mark, but having all such benefits from the target being marked suppressed until the target becomes corporeal again. A samurai would also be able to cancel this decision and select a new mark at will as if the target had been defeated. This represents the samurai thinking (rightly or wrongly) that their superior prowess in battle has forced their mark to adopt a cowardly or defeatist method of combat. I have not read all the posts in detail so hopefully this comment was not mentioned earlier. Your "blade of the Samuri" ability seems a bit powerful for first level character. Being able to double your crit range with several weapons and get free attacks seems a bit much. This should be broken out or get additional abilities as the character gains levels. I've been thinking something similar myself, I’m not sure which levels to implement it on though, but I shall give it thought. For now I don’t see it as such a massive issue to be honest though admittedly it makes the class a great class to dip into, but as I normally don’t allow 1 level dipping without good reason it’s not such a problem in the kind of campaigns I play. I will change this in time though as it’s a valid issue. About my campain: We hade this arch enemy thet most bosses wher to fight him again, your samurai was great to pot him as a mark. I hade a katana at one hand and a wakizashi at the other. I loved to pot a lot to intimidat skill, artist skills where not the funest thing to have. He i hade no armor so i had high wiz so it was also fun to find all the sneaky monsters. But what i just loved to do is, have high dex, full Iaijutsu Focus skill, quick draw and the improved initiative feet, where does thet lead? Mass damage at first round of battle! I'm really glad you enjoyed playing the class! I know the artist skills can seem a little boring if you want to play a more fighter orientated samurai, but I think they really help you add a hell of a lot of flavour to the class. Plus anymore combat abilities would overpower the class, which I’m quite happy with balance wise as it stands.
dark_nony 12-11-06, 03:01 PM	Dont impower the class, its great already. I hust didnt like the bonuses, doesnt mean you need to change them, all im saying is that i personaly didnt like them. But they do give flaver in the class. So im saying, kipp them.
TheOtherWaffle 12-11-06, 08:19 PM	[QUOTE=Kanachi;10878282]Mark of the grave (allows marking against undead) Mark of the ghost (allows marking against incorporeal) Mark of the machine (allows marking against constructs) good ideas and will help bring this class up to better balance with other classes. BTW, if you think 1 hitting a CR7 monster is easy, well, it is quite ridiculous when you're lvl 5. And yes I could do more with a C.O.D., but this class is better for getting a balanced character.
Kanachi 12-12-06, 04:46 AM	Dont impower the class, its great already. I hust didnt like the bonuses, doesnt mean you need to change them, all im saying is that i personaly didnt like them. But they do give flaver in the class. So im saying, kipp them. ride skill can be useful! hehe. Apart from that though, yer its mainly all flavor. Very glad you enjoy the class! :D good ideas and will help bring this class up to better balance with other classes. BTW, if you think 1 hitting a CR7 monster is easy, well, it is quite ridiculous when you're lvl 5. And yes I could do more with a C.O.D., but this class is better for getting a balanced character. hehe, well i would hope the class would be a little more balanced than COD though i'm sure you could munchkin it non the less, as no class is immune to munchkining as far as i know. Thanks for giving the class a run dude, its very cool to know people are using it :)
Kanachi 12-16-06, 09:21 PM	Once again I’ve been lazy and not bothered to post some updates I’ve made to the class for a while, so I’m very sorry about that!! I’ve changed the following: • Blade of the samurai changed to way of the samurai. The ability now only grants a single weapon with which the samurai is proficient an improved crit range. At later levels (7th and 13th) they are able to choose additional weapons. • I’ve moved the attack of opportunity bonus that used to be seated in the blade of the samurai ability into the look twice ability, which fits the purpose far better. • I’ve made the wisdom bonus offered by the look twice ability limited by half the characters class level. • I’ve reworded cut once to represent what I had always intended (sorry for my bad words-manship!!) you only gain the additional d6 bonus to damage on your first successful hit NOT all of them. • The cut once ability is now not limited by weapon, which I had forgotten to implement a while back. I feel these changes help balance out the class a lot more as well as finally making the class fully open to whatever kind of weapon build you desire as a player. If you want to make a samurai who specialises in a katana that’s fine, but you may now also do so with a bow or Naginata. I hope you all approve of these changes and want to thank everyone for your continued advice and ideas. You have all been instrumental in making what I think now looks like a very solid option for someone wanting to play a samurai in d&d. The successes of this class are all largely part because of your work, not just my own. So thank you all very much once again. I might give though into renaming the title of this post from “a new(ish) look samurai – bass class” into “A new viable samurai – bass class”. As I think it’s finally become far more than it originally started out as.
Manyfist 12-18-06, 01:26 AM	I would do away with the Mark thing, its makes them sound like Bounty Hunters rather than Noble Warrior. I would give them the Sublime way Tech. Just rename them into Japanese. Setting Sun = Jujutsu Iron Heart = Kenjutsu Diamond Mind = Iaidō Desert Wind = Battōjutsu Shadow Hand = Ninjutsu Devoted Spirit = Seishinjutsu (fake) Tiger Claw = Taigaajutsu (fake) White Raven = Booeijutsu (fake) Stone Dragon = Kajutsu
LordArchaon 12-18-06, 12:23 PM	Once again I’ve been lazy and not bothered to post some updates I’ve made to the class for a while, so I’m very sorry about that!! I’ve changed the following: • Blade of the samurai changed to way of the samurai. The ability now only grants a single weapon with which the samurai is proficient an improved crit range. At later levels (7th and 13th) they are able to choose additional weapons. • I’ve moved the attack of opportunity bonus that used to be seated in the blade of the samurai ability into the look twice ability, which fits the purpose far better. • I’ve made the wisdom bonus offered by the look twice ability limited by half the characters class level. • I’ve reworded cut once to represent what I had always intended (sorry for my bad words-manship!!) you only gain the additional d6 bonus to damage on your first successful hit NOT all of them. • The cut once ability is now not limited by weapon, which I had forgotten to implement a while back. I feel these changes help balance out the class a lot more as well as finally making the class fully open to whatever kind of weapon build you desire as a player. If you want to make a samurai who specialises in a katana that’s fine, but you may now also do so with a bow or Naginata. I hope you all approve of these changes and want to thank everyone for your continued advice and ideas. You have all been instrumental in making what I think now looks like a very solid option for someone wanting to play a samurai in d&d. The successes of this class are all largely part because of your work, not just my own. So thank you all very much once again. I might give though into renaming the title of this post from “a new(ish) look samurai – bass class” into “A new viable samurai – bass class”. As I think it’s finally become far more than it originally started out as. Everything's all right I think! Go for the post-title change!
Silverthumb128 12-18-06, 12:27 PM	Psst, this class still rocks. :D
Kanachi 12-18-06, 06:46 PM	I would do away with the Mark thing, its makes them sound like Bounty Hunters rather than Noble Warrior. Well, I use the term Mark mainly because it’s one everyone is familiar with from other classes, however in this case it’s meant to represent a samurai moving through combat challenging foes one by one to single combat. This class is supposed to excels at defeating singular opponents one at a time with a superior level of skill and cunning than most (not all) fighters might otherwise posses. The samurai here is of course not without weakness however, it can be bogged down either by many durable foes or by particularly elusive foes. I enjoy the way in which the Mark class mechanic functions and the idea of doing away with "the mark thing" is, to me, a massive alteration that would change the class irrevocably from my original vision. Nice ideas though, but I just don’t want to implement them here in this class, sorry. Everything's all right I think! Go for the post-title change! Hehe thanks! I would change the title but i dont know how, i guess its there to stay. lol Psst, this class still rocks. :D Awww thanks dude :D
Ryu Katsuragi 12-18-06, 07:20 PM	Admittedly, I can't say I like the flavour too much - I see way too many 'cinematic' samurai, that it gets a little tiresome. Just wondering, why in the list you have of weapons (which mostly are just renamed weapons from the PHB), arn't the daikyu, hankyu and yari listed?
Kanachi 12-18-06, 09:13 PM	Admittedly, I can't say I like the flavour too much - I see way too many 'cinematic' samurai, that it gets a little tiresome. Just wondering, why in the list you have of weapons (which mostly are just renamed weapons from the PHB), arn't the daikyu, hankyu and yari listed? errrm.. well to be honest with you I cant think of a mechanic that would make a daikyu or hankyu (both of which are types of Japanese bow bows called Yumi, for those reading this whom don’t know) differ from regular bows. The same goes for yari which is basically just a spear. If you can give me some good mechanics which set them apart from their counterparts explained in the PHB then I would be more than happy to include them. A spear is a spear, if you wish to describe YOUR spear in a way that makes it a yari I see that as a description/flavour issue, not necessarily a mechanics issue. Also I do urge you to remember that d&d IS a fantasy game, there is NO class which is 100% real world, indeed all the classes ARE fantasy variants of their real world counterparts. In all honesty I don’t see this class as particularly off the wall compared to any other class out there, in fact off the wall to me would be making a 100% real world class in a non real world setting!! I have to say I find a lot of criticism levelled at any mechanic that seems to attempt to make something based on a real world thing that use the “its not 100% realistic” argument as just plain nonsensical. A lot of it comes across as faux-historian like snobbery and, for me, a failure to acknowledge that the game is what it is. FANTASY I know my comments probably come across as offensive, which I assure you is not really my style or intent. It’s simply intended as a counterpoint to criticism I often see levelled by those claming to wield pure historian knowledge against those who attempt for an iota of freeform fantasy. I assume we both just come from very different spectrums of d&d and therefore play very different games, yours assumable being low magic real world based pieces, which is entirely valid. No hard feelings hopefully
Ryu Katsuragi 12-18-06, 09:21 PM	errrm.. well to be honest with you I cant think of a mechanic that would make a daikyu or hankyu (both of which are types of Japanese bow bows called Yumi, for those reading this whom don’t know) differ from regular bows. The same goes for yari which is basically just a spear. If you can give me some good mechanics which set them apart from their counterparts explained in the PHB then I would be more than happy to include them. A spear is a spear, if you wish to describe YOUR spear in a way that makes it a yari I see that as a description/flavour issue, not necessarily a mechanics issue. ... But all you did was put down the dagger, shortsword, bastard sword and greatsword (for most of the equipment list) and gave them Japanese names. Why is that any different from putting a renamed longspear, and renamed shortbow/longbow? I assume we both just come from very different spectrums of d&d and therefore play very different games, yours assumable being low magic real world based pieces, which is entirely valid. You assume alot. Cinematic /=/ Low Magic. I was simply commenting that it would be nice to see someones write up of a 'real' samurai (and even then, the feel of this class didn't seem that 'samurai-ish') Also I do urge you to remember that d&d IS a fantasy game, there is NO class which is 100% real world, indeed all the classes ARE fantasy variants of their real world counterparts. In all honesty I don’t see this class as particularly off the wall compared to any other class out there, in fact off the wall to me would be making a 100% real world class in a non real world setting!! Hardly. Does that mean the Fighter, who gets proficiency with armour and uses a sword is 'fantasy compared to the real world'? I know I'm splitting hairs here, but you did come off extremely hostile, and assumed/judged me alot based on a simple post.
Kanachi 12-19-06, 05:15 AM	Hiya Ryu, First off I want to apologise for the way in which I phrased many of my comments, I think I was just tired and/or had a bad day. So I’m sorry if I came across as hostile, which I did in all honesty. I am unequivocally sorry for this. I still do disagree however and have tried to phrase myself better bellow. lol ... But all you did was put down the dagger, shortsword, bastard sword and greatsword (for most of the equipment list) and gave them Japanese names. Why is that any different from putting a renamed longspear, and renamed shortbow/longbow? All the weapons I have added to the list are weapons found in either the DMG or OA. I agree that they differ very little from the weapons you have listed (except in cost) but it’s simply a matter of including them because they already have been listed in these two books. If I were to add a yari or yumi I would want to justify them somehow having separate description of their own even if it means making them cost more/less as wizards have. I was thinking about making a Yumi easyer to use on horse back somehow but having a max composite limit, but I’m unsure. You assume alot. Cinematic /=/ Low Magic. I was simply commenting that it would be nice to see someones write up of a 'real' samurai (and even then, the feel of this class didn't seem that 'samurai-ish') Its a mainly a matter of opinion, it’s hard to really say what exactly a samurai is. This is a more Cinematic class for sure, its closer in general to those I have seen in films, such as seven samurai, shogun assassin and others but I’ve tried hard to allow for as close a real world feel as possible. There is scope to create a mounted samurai, a bow/yumi using samurai, a spear/yari using samurai, a samurai who wears armour, a samurai who does not, a samurai who relies on reflexes, one who is a leader, a samurai who is more secretive in nature… etc.. etc… So in short I’ve tried to make far more than a sword wielding samurai. I see the main difference between a typical fighter and a samurai being the way in which he engages his enemies one at a time, swiftly and skilfully focusing upon and then defeating his opponents in a set of mini challenges/duels. I know this is not really “real” but it makes for an interesting mechanic and method of play as well as allowing for some nice flavour and roleplaying possibilities. It is certainly more cinematic than real world however. Hardly. Does that mean the Fighter, who gets proficiency with armour and uses a sword is 'fantasy compared to the real world'? Oh sure he can be similar to the real world, that’s my point, but trying to say that he should be or is real world is another matter entirely. Lets not forget he can fire 4 arrows in 6 seconds, that’s not real world. Such things are fantasy heroics as are a very large number of his feats, not all however, granted. I just believe the samurai is a entitled to have a bite of the fantasy genre cherry as much as the fighter or any other class and that a pursuit of true historical realism is not really possible within dnd as its diametrically opposed to even the way many of the core game mechanics work. You can fain at realism but you cant really get it spot on. Plus I just enjoy a bit of fantasy to be honest lol. That simple really. Anyway sorry for my rudeness before once again :)
Kanachi 12-20-06, 07:33 PM	there is always time for a good :bump:
Kanachi 03-03-07, 01:45 PM	It’s been a very long time, but I figured people may find this class interesting who have not seen it before... see what you think anyway :)
LordArchaon 04-15-07, 09:57 AM	Hello again! I just wanted you to know that I'm going to use the Save-Bonus system of this beautiful Samurai class for a new PrC I'm making! It's still work in progress, but a first draft is available. It's the Soul Knight (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=827020). It's a very original concept for an armored monk type, which uses Tome of Battle and Magic of Incarnum. It's inspired by the Saint Seiya (Knights of the Zodiac) manga/anime series, as you can see by the image on the thread! :)
Kanachi 04-16-07, 08:18 AM	wow, never thought this would get resurected again :D very glad you like the point system! I'll take a peek at your class ASAP
LordArchaon 04-16-07, 08:13 PM	There's a better surprise for you HERE! (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=12118972#post12118972) I suggest you to read the last post in the thread first and then to read the rest, maybe skipping the flavor text, because I wrote really plenty of it! :)
DoomSquirrel718 11-30-07, 03:14 AM	I was wondering what anyone thought about including the ability to mark someone that has just made an attack attempt at the samurai, even if it isn't the samurai's turn. Either as a new ability or included in the existing ability.
LordArchaon 12-02-07, 01:38 PM	I was wondering what anyone thought about including the ability to mark someone that has just made an attack attempt at the samurai, even if it isn't the samurai's turn. Either as a new ability or included in the existing ability. Could be a good idea for a PrC based on this Samurai or a series of feats, maybe based on Combat Reflexes (and Mark ability). By the way, Kanachi, I'm maintaining the Official Class Cookie Contest, I bet your class would take a very good feedback there, you could earn the first place, or at least a place in the Hall of Fame! :) The link is in my sig.
vorpo 12-02-07, 01:46 PM	Pls post me a note in the Peach Market (my sig) as to where you want to be listed under. Make sure you link the class when you post. (I haven't looked, but I am thinking remake just based on the name, but LordArchaon said it's entirely different from the CW samurai and it could be listed as fighter)
Kanachi 12-02-07, 05:00 PM	hiya everyone! well isn't this a suprise! you know i never thought anyone would read this lil thing again! I have to say i'm very pleased to see that there are people out there that like/enjoy the class to this day. It was great fun to make and reading back over it made me smile for sure! Right now i'm working on a massive project based upon characters who revolve around the manipulation of time and space so older works like this had dropped from my radar. I'll add this to your List ASAP :)
Kanachi 12-02-07, 05:13 PM	I was wondering what anyone thought about including the ability to mark someone that has just made an attack attempt at the samurai, even if it isn't the samurai's turn. Either as a new ability or included in the existing ability. I have to confess that you guys are probably a lot more well placed to judge if such a change would be acceptable as it’s been a long time since I’ve toyed with the class myself. I would post a word of caution however, this class is extremely powerful against its marked targets and a large part of the strategy of playing a samurai revolves around selecting your marks wisely. If you allow a samurai more freedom with the selection of her mark you will obviously unsettle this balance and make the class more powerful than it was designed to be. I would therefore recommend making any such option a high level (possibly epic) feat. A samurai will often embody the front line of all front line fighters in a group, for they excel in situations where they seek out and defeat their marks and underperform when called upon to take action against those they have not yet marked. Focus your feats on things that let you act a little more competently against those who aren’t your mark if you are worried by your overspecialization/dependency upon fighting individual opponents. I hope this helps :D
Ronule 12-04-07, 12:57 AM	I must give props to you for this wonderful looking class. I've been wanting to make a Samurai varient, but only having DMed once, and only playing for several years, I'm not the most knowledgeble on making new classes, so you saved me a lot of time and sorrow. I do have a questions though. Do you think it would be too much to make the HD a D10 rather than D8, seeing as this class would be an up front combatant?
Kanachi 12-04-07, 10:16 AM	I think if you lowered the skill points to 2 instead of 4 per level i would probably say that you could just about bump it up to d10 hit dice. I think that would be a variant that most people wouldn't object to... so go for it :)