Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kaelan 03-28-06, 04:06 PM	As our DM decided he wanted to start a new adventure, we were all entrusted with the task of creating ourselves brand new characters. As wanted to play a Rogue-Oriented this time, but I found the core Rogue a bit to boring for my taste (Yes, I know it is probably one of the most versatile and interesting of all classes, but I just played one too many times) I decided to go with the Ninja, which appears in the Complete Adventurer, as it is basicaly a rogue with a brand new interesting twist. I set down to create it, and then I noticed something that freaked me out It doesn't have Uncanny Dodge ! I still can't belive it, that a class based on the principle of surprising its opponents and has a "sixth sense" loses it's dexterity bonus to its AC (though not its wisdom bonus) when flat-footed, and can be sneak-attacked by a puny 1st level Rogue (or other ninja) I'm thinking of suggesting to my DM to house-rule Uncanny-Dodge to it, just because it seems reasonable, and I wanted to know you guys opinions
fatal error 03-28-06, 04:11 PM	Ninjas should always go first though... (and by this I mean take imp. initiative and that other initiative feat in CAdv.) But really, it probably won't matter much since A) the Ninja will be in the back or B) the Ninja will be hidden.
allenchan 03-28-06, 04:18 PM	Meh. Cant say uncanny dodge comes up much, in my campaigns.
Kaelan 03-28-06, 04:23 PM	But really, it probably won't matter much since A) the Ninja will be in the back or B) the Ninja will be hidden. It doensn't really bother me in combat situations, as it is obvious that if I find myself flanked, or otherwise tight combat spot, I'm in a problem far worse It bothers me more on the whole traps and being sneaked myself Of course, it won't stop me from playing this otherwise amazing class, I'm simply surprised
FangsofChaos 03-28-06, 05:25 PM	Ninjas for some reason are not proficient with the katana. Which in every world except for dnd's the katana is a ninja's bread and butter.
Koriel 03-28-06, 06:14 PM	Ninjas for some reason are not proficient with the katana. Which in every world except for dnd's the katana is a ninja's bread and butter. To me, part of the fun of playing a ninja would be using an arsenal of concealable and multi-purpose weapons like the kusari-gama, shikomi-zue, kawanaga, chijiriki, etc., as well as blinding powders and smoke grenades.
thasis 03-28-06, 06:21 PM	Uncanny Dodge is probally an insanely useful ability in my campaign, not so much for my players though. My players seem to be constantly sneaking up on enemies. They actualy stuck a duerager monk into a barrel and delivered it to some rouges who thought it was bear. Boy were they suprised when a scitso dwarf jumps out and tries to literly smash their head off.
Lotus Crane 03-28-06, 06:28 PM	Ninjas for some reason are not proficient with the katana. Which in every world except for dnd's the katana is a ninja's bread and butter. Whoah, highly inaccurate. You must be thinking of the ninjato, which is more like a slashing shortword, than the much larger katana. Ninja would almost never carry around a katana, because it would draw far too much attention to them, and probably guarantee (even more than usual) that they'd die a pretty nasty death if caught. Anyway back to the OP, what I did with my Re-Balanced Ninja (http://boards.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=611940) was to change the ki dodge power from a concealment ability to a preternatural "6th sense" ability, and in addition to the 20% miss chance, she can't be flanked or caught flat-footed while the ki power is active (high levels in the rogue class are irrelevant).
heretic888 03-28-06, 09:26 PM	To me, part of the fun of playing a ninja would be using an arsenal of concealable and multi-purpose weapons like the kusari-gama, shikomi-zue, kawanaga, chijiriki, etc., as well as blinding powders and smoke grenades. Yet, amazingly enough, the CV Ninja is not proficient with a single one of those weapons. :rolleyes:
heretic888 03-28-06, 09:38 PM	Whoah, highly inaccurate. You must be thinking of the ninjato, which is more like a slashing shortword, than the much larger katana. Ninja would almost never carry around a katana, because it would draw far too much attention to them, and probably guarantee (even more than usual) that they'd die a pretty nasty death if caught. With all due respect, Lotus Crane, before telling somebody else they are "highly inaccurate", you should really get your own facts straight.... The "ninja-to" or "shinobi-gatana" --- which was less than 1 foot shorter than a regular katana --- was a special weapon of the Togakure Ryu. It was not some ubiquitous blade that all "ninja" were expected to carry. In a 17th century ninjutsu treatise called the Shoninki, for example, the author advises his readers to carry a "long wakizashi" during covert missions. Furthermore, I would question the wisdom of a "ninja" not carrying a katana because it would "draw far too much attention". The "ninja" of Iga and Koga were the samurai of their home regions. One of their leaders, Hattori Yasunaga, was a vassal to the 12th Ashikaga shogun. His son, Hattori Hanzo, was a vassal to the 1st Tokugawa shogun. It would have been absolutely ludicrous for these individuals not to carry a katana, the symbolic rank of the samurai social class. Not to mention that, prior to Toyotomi Hideyoshi's "sword hunts" in the 1580's, even peasants owned and carried katana. It would make no sense for "ninja" to eschew the weapon. Sorry for the rant, guys.... Laterz.
Lotus Crane 03-29-06, 02:16 AM	heretic888: Touche. Well, I suppose we're just focusing on different eras/groups of ninjas. My first and primary education on samurai and ninja was James Clavell's "Shogun." It wasn't until years later that I actually got into things like Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, and then much much later, various samurai and ninja animes. In any case, I've always been more of a samurai vs ninja fan than a samurai-as-ninja fan, but to each his own.
heretic888 03-29-06, 03:02 PM	heretic888: Touche. Well, I suppose we're just focusing on different eras/groups of ninjas. I personally don't think we're talking about "different eras/groups of ninjas" here, since the ninja-to is the special weapon of an Iga ninjutsu school (i.e, Togakure Ryu). The Iga/Koga "ninja" were not active as a military force until the late 1400's (roughly the beginning of the Sengoku Jidai). An annal of the Ashikaga shogunate known as the Nochi Kagami specifically mentions them: "Concerning ninja, they are said to be from Iga and Koga, and went freely into enemy castles in secret. They observed hidden things, and are considered allies. Strategists call them kagimono-hiki." This source also goes on to mention a specific instance in which the Iga/Koga "ninja" were involved: "Inside the camp at Magari of the Shogun Yoshihisa there were ninja whose names were famous throughout the land. When Yoshihisa attacked Rokkaku Takayori, the family of Kawai Aki-no-kami of Iga, who served him at Magari, earned considerable merit as ninja in front of the great army of the Shogun. Since then successive generations of Iga men have been admired. This is the origin of the fame of the men of Iga." Furthermore, in the Go Kagami, we hear something similar: "There was a retainer of the family of Kawai Aki-no-kami of Iga, of pre-eminent skill in shinobi, and consequently for generations the name of people from Iga became established. Another tradition grew in Koga." These are clearly not descriptions of peasants here!! Furthermore, during the Edo Jidai, the Iga/Koga "ninja" actually grew in prestige when they became directly employed by the Tokugawa shogunal government. Hattori Hanzo himself was a hatamoto, one of the shogun's personal vassals/bodyguards. It should be pointed out that most of the trappings and gimmicks of the "ninja" that people are familiar with --- the shichiho-de "seven ways" of disguise, the ninja-to, tetsubishi caltrops, eggshell grenades, kyoketsu-shoge, the "star" shuriken, and so on --- all come from the Iga/Koga groups. My first and primary education on samurai and ninja was James Clavell's "Shogun." It wasn't until years later that I actually got into things like Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, and then much much later, various samurai and ninja animes. In any case, I've always been more of a samurai vs ninja fan than a samurai-as-ninja fan, but to each his own. Well, the problem here is that you were trying to approximate Japanese history from works of fiction. I would put Shogun right up there with The Last Samurai in terms of historical accuracy. As in, not very. If you are actually interested in what is and is not "highly inaccurate", I would recommend the works of Stephen Turnbull and Karl Friday. You could even begin by thumbing through the links in my signature. ;) Laterz.
(Psi)SeveredHead 03-29-06, 03:43 PM	heretic888: Touche. Well, I suppose we're just focusing on different eras/groups of ninjas. My first and primary education on samurai and ninja was James Clavell's "Shogun." It wasn't until years later that I actually got into things like Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, and then much much later, various samurai and ninja animes. In any case, I've always been more of a samurai vs ninja fan than a samurai-as-ninja fan, but to each his own. I suspect the "ninja" doesn't get uncanny dodge for the same reason the monk doesn't get uncanny dodge. I like how D20 Modern* handles this (although not in core rules). There's a feat called "Martial Arts Weapons Proficiency". This feat gives you proficiency with three exotic weapons (choose from a list). I don't recall if the katana is on the list or not. This means you could have ninja using almost whatever "Oriental" weapons you wanted, and any two ninja might not be proficient with each others' weapons. You could restrict the list for a more realistic campaign, too. * Don't let the name fool you. It works just as well in historic settings.