a paladin again [Archive] - Wizards Community

a paladin again [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
rurikbalderk
12-07-05, 03:09 PM in ad&d many kind of evil but some are born evil some of them become evil
in MM if creature is usually evil(like drow) it becomes but if it is always evil it borns evil
if a paladin sees a creature it is going to be evil but it is young can he/she kill it or what must she/he do
Dev Vim
12-07-05, 03:14 PM ah, a premice to many great books and stories, and the premice of the game nox.

yes, creatures may be born evil but even then they may not alwayse be evil, and a paladin, as much as i hate paladins, is a champion of good and compassion. i would say that a paladin routed some succubi, but found two babys among them. now logic will say they are evil but really depending on the personality of the paladin he may very well take the babys in and try to raise them as his own to teach them to be good instead of evil. weather it takes or the babys end up being evil anyways is another story, but remeber that while good and evil are black and white in the rule book in the game, when you play, its closer to the grey of life.
Wolf_Boy
12-07-05, 03:43 PM Unless a creatures alignment is listed as always under it's alignment it is a tendancy in some cases stronger than others. Base racial instincts tend them towards it as does the societies they are raised in. However as a child I would for any creature that it is as of yet neutral until such time as it can fully develop and come to terms with morality or amorality. Simply put, until it has fully developed world veiws it is still a child, and as a child is of neutral alignment and neither good or evil, an innocent if you will. As such is the case it is far from 100% certain the child will turn out evil, and as it is tendancy rather than rule there is actually a very strong change that raised properly in the right environment the child will in fact turn out good or at least neutral. In the case of the succubus example, children succubi are evil, as they are not born of tendancy but essence. As a demonic creature children succubi would be build of the very essence of evil. Unless a succubi is made into a sanctified creature by the rules in exalted deeds it is born, always will be, and can never be anything but unredeemably evil. That said, there's nothing stopping the paldin from taking the children to be santified.
Dev Vim
12-07-05, 03:50 PM exactly. still it is possable for even the most evil creature to have that spark needed for sanctification, and children especially. i wouldnt say they are nutral, per say, but the environment they come from is a huge factor and any base instincts will take a back seat to that if raised properly.

i mean look at half orcs, the perfect example. most orcs are evil, thats true, but half orc characters are able to be good or evil, lawful ro chaotic, and that often factors most on the enviornment, not the base nature. if it was base nature, all half orcs would be evil, or at least most of htem.
Silverthumb128
12-07-05, 04:07 PM This is why I wish Sanctify the Wicked were a Paladin spell. :D I'd use that sucker CONSTANTLY.
jasper
12-07-05, 04:36 PM it depends on black and white or shades of grey the dm's world is.
IMC paladin's killing kobold kids are still good. But since I black and white dm, if ever there was a neutral to good kobold around the paladin would be being a messenge from the big boss to be on the look out for Kerry the Kind hearted Kobold Kid. And that would be an adventure itself.
Poor Kerry they never did let play in any Kobold games.
oddman
12-07-05, 08:37 PM My paladins always try to redeem evil NPCs and creatures that he comes across. The only exceptions for him are mindless evil creatures and clerics of evil gods. The former are obviously irredeemable the latter chose their path and he is only too glad to help them along.
moto
12-07-05, 10:22 PM Well I must be against the grain here, but my Paladins always end up just killing every thing evil. It's young, so much the better, for now it's easyier to kill. My DM's shades of gray tho. And would even let a paladin stay in a group with a CE char so, I guess that does not say much.
Wolf_Boy
12-08-05, 09:20 AM Actually come to think of it, I also think the child counts as defenseless as well, and I believe killing someone while unable to defend themselves, excedera is against the paladin code, honor and all that. I mean seriously, how hard or fair is it for a trained warrior paladin to walk up to a small child and cut his head off. This is really multiple levels of wrong. Personally I think people try to get away with too much as a paladin as it is. Killing a child is wrong, especially a baby. No body said being good was easy. There are reasons I don't ussually play paladins or exalted good creatures, except maybe in a solo game. It's too moral intensive and slows down game play. Plus... I hate to say it, but the way many people play paladins seems a bit closer to sociopathic killer than it does champion of justice to me. Especially with the abuse of detect evil.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
rurikbalderk 12-07-05, 03:09 PM	in ad&d many kind of evil but some are born evil some of them become evil in MM if creature is usually evil(like drow) it becomes but if it is always evil it borns evil if a paladin sees a creature it is going to be evil but it is young can he/she kill it or what must she/he do
Dev Vim 12-07-05, 03:14 PM	ah, a premice to many great books and stories, and the premice of the game nox. yes, creatures may be born evil but even then they may not alwayse be evil, and a paladin, as much as i hate paladins, is a champion of good and compassion. i would say that a paladin routed some succubi, but found two babys among them. now logic will say they are evil but really depending on the personality of the paladin he may very well take the babys in and try to raise them as his own to teach them to be good instead of evil. weather it takes or the babys end up being evil anyways is another story, but remeber that while good and evil are black and white in the rule book in the game, when you play, its closer to the grey of life.
Wolf_Boy 12-07-05, 03:43 PM	Unless a creatures alignment is listed as always under it's alignment it is a tendancy in some cases stronger than others. Base racial instincts tend them towards it as does the societies they are raised in. However as a child I would for any creature that it is as of yet neutral until such time as it can fully develop and come to terms with morality or amorality. Simply put, until it has fully developed world veiws it is still a child, and as a child is of neutral alignment and neither good or evil, an innocent if you will. As such is the case it is far from 100% certain the child will turn out evil, and as it is tendancy rather than rule there is actually a very strong change that raised properly in the right environment the child will in fact turn out good or at least neutral. In the case of the succubus example, children succubi are evil, as they are not born of tendancy but essence. As a demonic creature children succubi would be build of the very essence of evil. Unless a succubi is made into a sanctified creature by the rules in exalted deeds it is born, always will be, and can never be anything but unredeemably evil. That said, there's nothing stopping the paldin from taking the children to be santified.
Dev Vim 12-07-05, 03:50 PM	exactly. still it is possable for even the most evil creature to have that spark needed for sanctification, and children especially. i wouldnt say they are nutral, per say, but the environment they come from is a huge factor and any base instincts will take a back seat to that if raised properly. i mean look at half orcs, the perfect example. most orcs are evil, thats true, but half orc characters are able to be good or evil, lawful ro chaotic, and that often factors most on the enviornment, not the base nature. if it was base nature, all half orcs would be evil, or at least most of htem.
Silverthumb128 12-07-05, 04:07 PM	This is why I wish Sanctify the Wicked were a Paladin spell. :D I'd use that sucker CONSTANTLY.
jasper 12-07-05, 04:36 PM	it depends on black and white or shades of grey the dm's world is. IMC paladin's killing kobold kids are still good. But since I black and white dm, if ever there was a neutral to good kobold around the paladin would be being a messenge from the big boss to be on the look out for Kerry the Kind hearted Kobold Kid. And that would be an adventure itself. Poor Kerry they never did let play in any Kobold games.
oddman 12-07-05, 08:37 PM	My paladins always try to redeem evil NPCs and creatures that he comes across. The only exceptions for him are mindless evil creatures and clerics of evil gods. The former are obviously irredeemable the latter chose their path and he is only too glad to help them along.
moto 12-07-05, 10:22 PM	Well I must be against the grain here, but my Paladins always end up just killing every thing evil. It's young, so much the better, for now it's easyier to kill. My DM's shades of gray tho. And would even let a paladin stay in a group with a CE char so, I guess that does not say much.
Wolf_Boy 12-08-05, 09:20 AM	Actually come to think of it, I also think the child counts as defenseless as well, and I believe killing someone while unable to defend themselves, excedera is against the paladin code, honor and all that. I mean seriously, how hard or fair is it for a trained warrior paladin to walk up to a small child and cut his head off. This is really multiple levels of wrong. Personally I think people try to get away with too much as a paladin as it is. Killing a child is wrong, especially a baby. No body said being good was easy. There are reasons I don't ussually play paladins or exalted good creatures, except maybe in a solo game. It's too moral intensive and slows down game play. Plus... I hate to say it, but the way many people play paladins seems a bit closer to sociopathic killer than it does champion of justice to me. Especially with the abuse of detect evil.