A paladin's judgment- what SHOULD he decide? [Archive] - Wizards Community

A paladin's judgment- what SHOULD he decide? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Charles Phipps
10-27-04, 06:33 PM It's actually just happened very recently in our game and ironically is a moral dilemna for once I'm actually stumped at. A paladin, my character, has been called in to arbitrate "The Kindly Ones" comic of The Sandmen. It's not DIRECTLY it but pretty damn identical.

Sir Derek, the Paladin of Abstraction (who basically is invested with power every 'Age' to attack the rigid dogma of the lawful goods and rebuild them from the ground up while providing alternatives to the lives of the chaotic and wicked) is respected by all parties involved and they've agreed to abide by his ruling. This is where Paladins I think can often find the most difficulty, where the greater good isn't contrasted by evil but where ultimately their loyalty lies...

To their Gods, to Human Good, or to the Good as Concept (which isn't that good if it doesn't benefit people)

The situation is that the paladin Rebekhah Kryptgarden (no commenting on the fact all of my paladins seem to be some variant of Jewish) long ago went into the Realm of the God of Dreams to rescue the Spirit of the Grand Master of the Order of Luminescent Righteousness Thomas Crownguard.

Dream-master Phabrazzo exists to craft humanity's dreams and cater to their wants and needs. Thomas Crownguard wasn't in the Realm of dreams unfortunately since the person she sought wasn't alive at all but had disgraced himself and joined the other side (divinations are awfully tricky it seems and she said 'Where do I find the noble and good Thomas Crownguard').

Long story short she fell in love with the man as Phabrazzo provided her with countless obstacles and horrors to face as she married him in the Dream-lands and bore his child before finally reaching the end and discovering that he was a lie.

Her child was half-mortal though and half-dream so she wishes to keep him and take him to the mortal world even as she overflows with hatred to the abstract Neutral figure of the Dream-master. Phabrazzo naturally considers the child his property as part dream and wants to raise him to become another of his dream farmers.

This is where the Paladin's ROLE comes into play I think and I have some thoughts on that.

He has to rule where the child should go by law and by goodness along with personal bias.
MetalGemini
10-27-04, 06:40 PM I'd go on the side of truth and give it to the mother. Daddy lied, -1 point. Mom is also a paladin and would raise the kid to be all goodly 'n' stuff.
steventirey1985
10-27-04, 06:41 PM IMHO, the mother should get the child. After all, the circumstances of its birth were based on a lie created by the father. Besides, the mother could probably take better care of the child than the father, who has many other duties already.
Charles Phipps
10-27-04, 07:03 PM Phabrazzo isn't the direct father. He merely facillitated the dream Thomas siring the child before having it possible for her to become pregnant, circumstances beyond his control though have resulted in a peculiar dream hybrid from his attempts to give her a child.

Since Phabrazzo rules all dreams, he considers it a violation of his sovereignty to let a dream leave his realm and also a removal of his property (which is in this case all dreams. Its part of his divine mandate to also keep dreams from menacing the world by escaping)

While it might serve good, the paladin of abrastration also recognizes the mother's own actions reflect an invasion of the Dream Master's territory to enter the place to steal away a person she simply assumed was a prisoner. She killed many dreams along the way but Phabrazzo isn't pressing that issue since people kill in their dreams all the time.

(The DM is hammering home Phabrazzo doesn't understand or think like a human-which allows him to do his job effectively)

Thanks for the thoughts thus far.

My DM has commented that other dreams may hold her morally responsible for the deaths though
Cross Hatch
10-27-04, 07:35 PM She's a Paladin. Different Paladins have different views on what is good. There is no way that anybody else can tell you what the good decision is. This is part of roleplay.
She has to make an honest attempt to do the good and lawful thing - damn the consequences, even if it means losing her Palidinhood.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Charles Phipps 10-27-04, 06:33 PM	It's actually just happened very recently in our game and ironically is a moral dilemna for once I'm actually stumped at. A paladin, my character, has been called in to arbitrate "The Kindly Ones" comic of The Sandmen. It's not DIRECTLY it but pretty damn identical. Sir Derek, the Paladin of Abstraction (who basically is invested with power every 'Age' to attack the rigid dogma of the lawful goods and rebuild them from the ground up while providing alternatives to the lives of the chaotic and wicked) is respected by all parties involved and they've agreed to abide by his ruling. This is where Paladins I think can often find the most difficulty, where the greater good isn't contrasted by evil but where ultimately their loyalty lies... To their Gods, to Human Good, or to the Good as Concept (which isn't that good if it doesn't benefit people) The situation is that the paladin Rebekhah Kryptgarden (no commenting on the fact all of my paladins seem to be some variant of Jewish) long ago went into the Realm of the God of Dreams to rescue the Spirit of the Grand Master of the Order of Luminescent Righteousness Thomas Crownguard. Dream-master Phabrazzo exists to craft humanity's dreams and cater to their wants and needs. Thomas Crownguard wasn't in the Realm of dreams unfortunately since the person she sought wasn't alive at all but had disgraced himself and joined the other side (divinations are awfully tricky it seems and she said 'Where do I find the noble and good Thomas Crownguard'). Long story short she fell in love with the man as Phabrazzo provided her with countless obstacles and horrors to face as she married him in the Dream-lands and bore his child before finally reaching the end and discovering that he was a lie. Her child was half-mortal though and half-dream so she wishes to keep him and take him to the mortal world even as she overflows with hatred to the abstract Neutral figure of the Dream-master. Phabrazzo naturally considers the child his property as part dream and wants to raise him to become another of his dream farmers. This is where the Paladin's ROLE comes into play I think and I have some thoughts on that. He has to rule where the child should go by law and by goodness along with personal bias.
MetalGemini 10-27-04, 06:40 PM	I'd go on the side of truth and give it to the mother. Daddy lied, -1 point. Mom is also a paladin and would raise the kid to be all goodly 'n' stuff.
steventirey1985 10-27-04, 06:41 PM	IMHO, the mother should get the child. After all, the circumstances of its birth were based on a lie created by the father. Besides, the mother could probably take better care of the child than the father, who has many other duties already.
Charles Phipps 10-27-04, 07:03 PM	Phabrazzo isn't the direct father. He merely facillitated the dream Thomas siring the child before having it possible for her to become pregnant, circumstances beyond his control though have resulted in a peculiar dream hybrid from his attempts to give her a child. Since Phabrazzo rules all dreams, he considers it a violation of his sovereignty to let a dream leave his realm and also a removal of his property (which is in this case all dreams. Its part of his divine mandate to also keep dreams from menacing the world by escaping) While it might serve good, the paladin of abrastration also recognizes the mother's own actions reflect an invasion of the Dream Master's territory to enter the place to steal away a person she simply assumed was a prisoner. She killed many dreams along the way but Phabrazzo isn't pressing that issue since people kill in their dreams all the time. (The DM is hammering home Phabrazzo doesn't understand or think like a human-which allows him to do his job effectively) Thanks for the thoughts thus far. My DM has commented that other dreams may hold her morally responsible for the deaths though
Cross Hatch 10-27-04, 07:35 PM	She's a Paladin. Different Paladins have different views on what is good. There is no way that anybody else can tell you what the good decision is. This is part of roleplay. She has to make an honest attempt to do the good and lawful thing - damn the consequences, even if it means losing her Palidinhood.