Post/Author/DateTime	Post
poxjedi 03-15-07, 12:47 AM	for my in-the-works one cut duel, follow this link: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=809831 I'm making an Asian-themed campaign setting for play sometime in about 1-2 months. I definitely want to encourage players to be Ninjas and Samurai, but I also noticed that people lurking on this site seem to have a certain unfortunate relationship with the Samurai class. Namely? It sucks. And I, myself, was also somewhat disenchanted with the Samurai class after I read through it for the first time (just got Complete Warrior...). I had invisioned the Samurai as an unarmored (martial artist's clothes) warrior, calm and complacent most of the time, but able to bring death unexpectedly to an enemy in an instant. And, most importantly, Samurai should only use one sword, goshdarnit. The Samurai in Complete Warrior does not comply to many of these qualities, and completely defies others. Samurai can wear tons of armor. Samurai scream barbarically when they give forth thier crappy little 'Kiai Smite' attacks. And the Samurai uses TWO SWORDS. NOT cool. So I have changed some things for my campaign. To start, Samurai get no armor proficiency. To make up for this, they will get +10 feet move speed at 6th level and get an AC bonus the same way the Monk does, though it will be Charisma based. Both these bonuses apply only while wearing no armor and carring a light or no load. And then 'Kiai Smite'. It doesn't seem particularly reliant on a battle cry, so I will just change the flavor description to say, 'the samurai goes into a trance where his attacks are magnified...', or something else of the like. That leaves only the two swords. And so? Instead of the 'Two Swords as One' ability, the Samurai gains a bonus feat from the following list: 'Weapon Focus (Bastard Sword)' and subsequent feats 'Weapon Specialization (Bastard Sword)' and subsequent feats 'Two Weapon Fighting' and subsequent feats 'Two Weapon Defense' and subsequent feats 'Skill Emphasis (intimidate)' NOTES: 1. 'Subsequent Feats' are feats with the same name but with the title 'Improved' or 'Greater' added to them. 2. A character's Samurai levels count as Fighter levels for the purposes of these bonus feats 3. A character must qualify for all of the requirements of a feat, except dexterity score requirements. Would it work, at least for a small group which cares much more about having fun and not optimizing their characters every step of the way? -Poxjedi (currently under quaruntine)
Ranger REG 03-15-07, 01:48 AM	You're better off getting Oriental Adventures by James Wyatt and use the samurai class in there. Alternatively, and I don't usually encourage it, get Rokugan and use the samurai class in there. An unarmored samurai is like a duelist/musketeer in the Renaissance. There were armored samurai like European knights.
Zumarai 03-15-07, 06:11 AM	The best build/representation of a "Samurai" I've seen was an Aristocrat 1/Fighter X/Monk 1
Ventilatory_Threshold 03-15-07, 06:43 AM	The best representation of a Samurai I've ever seen was... I haven't seen one, because you can't stereotype Samurai. Individually, they varied just as much as people do today.
Zumarai 03-15-07, 06:48 AM	The best representation of a Samurai I've ever seen was... I haven't seen one, because you can't stereotype Samurai. Individually, they varied just as much as people do today. True, as the Samurai is a social status/standing, almost any class could potentially represent one.
Ventilatory_Threshold 03-15-07, 06:56 AM	True, as the Samurai is a social status/standing, almost any class could potentially represent one. I'm partial to a Sorcerer one, myself.
Zumarai 03-15-07, 07:18 AM	I'm partial to a Sorcerer one, myself. Nifty. A scout is nice to for the whole mononofu wasarau archer action.
turalisj 03-15-07, 07:23 AM	Meh, I like the warblae as a representation of the samurai. Diamond Mind, Iron Heart, Stone Dragon, Tiger Claw, and White Raven all scream samurai.
Zumarai 03-15-07, 07:34 AM	Meh, I like the warblae as a representation of the samurai. Diamond Mind, Iron Heart, Stone Dragon, Tiger Claw, and White Raven all scream samurai. ToB reeks of Wuxia to me, not Samurai.
Doomed_Penguin 03-15-07, 07:56 AM	Samurai were all different, especially depending on the time period they lived in. While it's true that most only fought with one sword at a time, they still all carried (and were trained in using) two. And as for armor, heavy armor was popular during war times, though they would wear more stylish or monastic clothing in times of peace (I'm talking in generations of samurai here, those in times of peace wouldn't have as much training in armor as those in times of war would, and vice versa), so armor proficiency should probably be based on campaign setting. As for Kiai Smite (sp?), I would replace it with the Weapon Focus/Specialization chain like you were going to, but still give them emphasis on intimidate. Also, give them more knowledge skills, as samurai were well educated; especially in times of peace when they were expected to study philosophy. Don't just throw TWF out the window either, most were still trained to use both (though I would only give them standard TWF as a bonus feat, unless your players are having their samurai's focus on using both at the same time, in which case you can give them the entire feat chain). Hope this helps, sorry for the history lesson :D
Zumarai 03-15-07, 07:59 AM	Samurai were all different, especially depending on the time period they lived in. While it's true that most only fought with one sword at a time, they still all carried (and were trained in using) two. And as for armor, heavy armor was popular during war times, though they would wear more stylish or monastic clothing in times of peace (I'm talking in generations of samurai here, those in times of peace wouldn't have as much training in armor as those in times of war would, and vice versa), so armor proficiency should probably be based on campaign setting. As for Kiai Smite (sp?), I would replace it with the Weapon Focus/Specialization chain like you were going to, but still give them emphasis on intimidate. Also, give them more knowledge skills, as samurai were well educated; especially in times of peace when they were expected to study philosophy. Don't just throw TWF out the window either, most were still trained to use both (though I would only give them standard TWF as a bonus feat, unless your players are having their samurai's focus on using both at the same time, in which case you can give them the entire feat chain). Hope this helps, sorry for the history lesson :D No problem, it's nothing next to the self-satisfied pontificating drivel you see on the OA forum.
RobbyPants 03-15-07, 09:07 AM	This still needs some work, but I did post a samurai fix (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=796201) a while back. The posted version has two fighting styles (similar to the ranger): two-handed and two weapon. When I finally get around to it, I'm going to add an archery and a mounted combat style. I'm also going to change the iaijutsu features a bit (and probably rename them something like "ki"), and have them do different things with different combat styles. Anyway, it's a work in progress, but it might be useful for you.
gullas 03-15-07, 09:11 AM	just make a fighter and take exotic weapon prof. bastard sword and call him a Samurai :D
MasonMurdoc 03-15-07, 09:58 AM	Samurai were armoured and have a Katana and a Tanto I dont think they used the together Sounds like you comparing it to Samurai Jack http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samurai
Zumarai 03-15-07, 10:05 AM	Samurai were armoured and have a Katana and a Tanto I dont think they used the together Katana and Wakizashi. And there was that Muhashi Moto dude or whatever that used both at the same time.
Witch 03-15-07, 10:06 AM	Poxjedi, are you seriously suggesting that people who rode to melee battle didn't wear armor? That they ride to war wearing fancy clothes? Them samurai might've liked committing suicide, but not in that way. http://www.japaneselifestyle.com.au/culture/images/samurai.jpg Looks like armor to me.
MasonMurdoc 03-15-07, 10:13 AM	Katana and Wakizashi. And there was that Muhashi Moto dude or whatever that used both at the same time. Oh yeah Tanto's the smaller one isn't it Dagger sized Samurai are cool :D
Zumarai 03-15-07, 10:15 AM	Oh yeah Tanto's the smaller one isn't it Dagger sized Yep.
Ventilatory_Threshold 03-15-07, 11:09 AM	ToB reeks of Wuxia to me, not Samurai. There's, what, one or two disciplines that even remotely indicate Wuxia: Desert Wind and Setting Sun. The rest are just badass combat awesomeness.
poxjedi 03-15-07, 11:58 AM	Well, let me clarify. Samurai armor looks like crap. But that's not all. In the campaign setting, I imagine a whole 3-branched order serving the king/emporer guy, similar to the jedi. It's basically combining Jedi* with buddhism with katanas: Wizards are 'the mind'. They study old tomes in 'Libraries' and use their knowledge for the benefit of the kingdom. Paladins are 'the spirit'. They cleanse the kingdom of Evil and serve as a role model for others. (most jedi-like) Samurai are 'the body'. They are greater in number than the other branches and usually serve as police officers, enforcing the law. (sorry for length) As for the nation's military? A bunch of crappy little fighters, what else? Samurai are too important! So anyways, I want my Samurai to be more as they appeared in old Samurai films, and historical accuracy really burns my bottom. Plus I don't want to spend $30 on Oriental Adventures. -Poxjedi *yes, I know very, very well that the Jedi were in fact independant of the Republic. Note that I did not actually say that they WERE the Jedi.
LordPendragon 03-15-07, 01:15 PM	Well, since you made the connection, the Jedi (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=808953) class I made in response to another thread asking about Jedi in D&D would be very close to what you want. At least, I think it fits the bill... - One sword only - Crazy jumping and zipping around - Parrying with a sword instead of using armour The force powers aspect of the class can easily be downplayed as it's written, and the telekinesis is so minor you could actually remove it without affecting the class' balance. Other than that, maybe try the Swordsage or Duelist, or any other light armour melee class. Also, I believe there's a class that gets Flurry and Weapon Finesse with the bastard sword... it might be in OA, though.
DaidojiTaidoru 03-15-07, 01:17 PM	So anyways, I want my Samurai to be more as they appeared in old Samurai films, and historical accuracy really burns my bottom. If you want this then you want the Warblade as stated above. I personally consider Diamond Mind to be the closest to that type of samurai, using intense focus and concentration to stike down opponents quickly. But many of the other styles fit as well.
poxjedi 03-15-07, 02:39 PM	Well, thanks, but no thanks. I like staredown and the other samurai abilities, I'm just tired of the Daisho, heavy armor, and screaming like a barbarian. Staredown and the Imp Init and Quick Draw special feats all work well with the idea I have for the one-cut duel.
poxjedi 03-15-07, 03:33 PM	Link to my one cut duel rules at the top of the thread.
teshen 03-15-07, 03:59 PM	Samurai armor looks like crap. Then give them light and medium armor and change how it looks... heavy armor as westerners think of it did exist in the orient... it just looked a little different and wasn't used as much as in medieval Europe. In the campaign setting, I imagine a whole 3-branched order serving the king/emporer guy, similar to the jedi. It's basically combining Jedi* with buddhism with katanas: And this doesn't surprise me... since George Lucas was into Tai Chi when he started writing the Star Wars series... you actually see a lot of asian influence in of both story and philosophy in the jedi if you look for it. So anyways, I want my Samurai to be more as they appeared in old Samurai films, and historical accuracy really burns my bottom. So... you dislike historical accuracy? Because samurai as a caste went through lots of changes through different eras. Lots of different things were samurai at one point or another and the image you have is 'just' from one time period... In fact, since you're trying to go further affield than the baddly done Miyamoto Musashi rip-off, you might try letting samurai be a title and letting other things 'be' samurai... like someone with various multiclass combinations... But a few good suggestions have been offered already. Plus I don't want to spend $30 on Oriental Adventures. Ah. There's the rub then. See if you can find a cheaper used copy at some online vendor. I've had decent success with that... it's nothing next to the self-satisfied pontificating drivel you see on the OA forum. Hey now... just because they love an area/time period and are able to inject some flavor and/or realism isn't a bad thing. :) And something just occured to me (which it should have before), consider psionics for various things... it can be very jedi (and a few adaptions have already been done) and easily used as ki type powers in many cases.
Kaiosama214 03-15-07, 04:05 PM	I'm kinda iffy about samurai getting Heavy armor proficiency. Their armor may have covered a bit, but it was essentialy brigadine/banded mail. Medium armor all the way. The idea of a samurai in Full Plate just seems....silly.
dark_nony 03-15-07, 04:15 PM	The CW samurai is based on Mayamoto musashi, a two weapon fighter. He had staredown, TWF, artist, etc... If you are changing it to a more realistic samurai than add th fallowing: 1. Light and medium armor 2. Special doul abilities when unarmerd 3. Chosen abilites instead of two weapons as one (TWF needs to be unusual)
Kazeofwinds 03-15-07, 04:22 PM	The CW samurai is barely even based on Musashi, honestly. Anyways, for Armored-Era samurai, Just use fighters with 4+int skills and some knowledge/diplomatic type skills added to the list. Isnt like a few more skills will break the fighter anyways. For funky wuxia-ish unarmored samurai, like the kind in some movies, either use tome of battle, or take a monk, replace the unarmed strike progression with something sword related(Weapon focus/specialization line maybe?),tweak the bonus feats, and let them flurry with swords. The CW samurai base class is one of the worst in the game, it forces an incoherent stereotype, and doesn't even do it well mechanically.
Ranger REG 03-15-07, 09:12 PM	Plus I don't want to spend $30 on Oriental Adventures. Well, I ain't copying the text from my bought copy of OA for you.
poxjedi 03-16-07, 02:11 AM	Well, this thread seems to be going nowhere. Permit me to explain further: I want every class and prestige class to be something special in my campaign. This will not be true of some of the very generic base classes (fighter, rogue, sorcerer, etc.) but more organization-related classes (or classes for which I have created an organization) will require special training. Any Ninja wanting a bonus feat can take a level of fighter, but a fighter wanting Ninja abilities will have to join with a Ninja clan and recieve special training. I want the Samurai to be like that. If you work hard for something, you will enjoy it more. So if you spend a solo session making contact with the ninjas, going through their rigorous training, then being sent to assassinate a member of a rival clan in order to prove your skills, then you will probably stick with it for a few levels. And if they don't, they'd better have a darned good reason, or else the whole clan will start hunting them. I don't want the Samurai class to be something you grab at first level because you get a few extra skill points, then immediately drop for fighter. I guess in that sense, it would probably be good to give the fighter more skills, too. I hope I made some sense.
danielinthewolvesden 03-16-07, 02:28 AM	You're better off getting Oriental Adventures by James Wyatt and use the samurai class in there. An unarmored samurai is like a duelist/musketeer in the Renaissance. There were armored samurai like European knights. Yep. The OA Samurai (with a bit of updating to 3.5) is fine. And Samurai very definately wore armour.
DarknessEternal 03-16-07, 08:23 AM	How about you take a class you think is good, say Warblade, grab a great scimitar, then take a lawful alignment. BAM! You're a samurai.
poxjedi 03-16-07, 11:12 AM	Don't you people understand a word I type? Sorry. I like the Samurai Class in CW, I just changed a few things and I want to know what you think about it. I know Samurai wore armor. I don't want mine to. In my game, Samurai will not be warriors who charge into formations of Orcs, they will Police officers, or at least enforcers of the law. They will need to be quick and deadly, not slow and tankish. They will need to seem unimposing and approachable, someone the average man in the street thinks they can trust. I know you think some classes would make better substitutes for Samurai. I only have the online SRD, CA and CW. I know you think other books are great and you have all got suggestions, but I'd really like to go through all my prestige classes and all my organizations and learn the material in my two books before I buy more. Please, please. Just try to understand. I would like to hear your opinions on the alternate samurai I have suggested from CW.
danielinthewolvesden 03-16-07, 01:08 PM	Don't you people understand a word I type? Sorry. I like the Samurai Class in CW, I just changed a few things and I want to know what you think about it. I know Samurai wore armor. I don't want mine to. In my game, Samurai will not be warriors who charge into formations of Orcs, they will Police officers, or at least enforcers of the law. They will need to be quick and deadly, not slow and tankish. Please, please. Just try to understand. I would like to hear your opinions on the alternate samurai I have suggested from CW. You know this is a constant problem here. Folks have a somewhat neat idea for a class, then they ruin it by a poor choice of names. You named the class "Samurai" and thus we expect the class to be somewhat Samurai like, rather than a completely different class altogether with the same name. Change the name and you might get some of the kind of FB you like. Maybe Constable.
DarkRhystar 03-16-07, 02:52 PM	You named the class "Samurai" and thus we expect the class to be somewhat Samurai like, rather than a completely different class altogether with the same name. Ditto. Sometimes it depends on whether someone is gunning for the authentic Samurai (of a certain period) or the movie industry's portrayal of Samurai. I'm still wondering when someone will do real research and Mounted Combat and Mounted Archery will appear as "Samurai" bonus feats (aside from the OA Unicorn clan).
Rommel013 03-16-07, 03:01 PM	How about you take a class you think is good, say Warblade, grab a great scimitar, then take a lawful alignment. BAM! You're a samurai. Why would a Great Scimitar have anything to do with the class he is trying to make, the CW Samurai build, or the Historical Samurai? poxjedi: The Historical Samurai were not simply frontline warriors, although they did preform that role. They were also Body Guards of a Feudal Lord and, to some extent, keepers of the peace. My question about your build is this: Why do you want them not to wear armor? Light Armor doesn't slow your speed down at all. Why not allow them, the police of your campaign, to wear armor? At some point in time they will be in a conflict right? If their job is to keep the peace and enforce laws, they will, at some point in time, have to forcefully enforce those laws. As far as the trust issue goes, that doesn't seem like it would have anything to do with what armor or what weapons they carry. It seems like it would have to do with their reputation. As far as unimposing goes, it seems that would be the opposite of what you want for police officers. One of the reasons Police Officers patrol the streets is as a form of intimidation against those who would break the laws. If they were to be completely unimposing and wearing no armor, it would make the law breakers or crooks feel as if they have a pretty good chance of getting away with taking a swing at them. However, you change that up and have them wearing armor and look very intimidating, suddenly that would-be theif re-evaluates if he wants to knock over that store or not.
dark_nony 03-16-07, 03:15 PM	Loke at the samurai as a lords elite soldier. At douls they didn't bring armor But other then that, samurais had heavy armore.
DarknessEternal 03-16-07, 04:20 PM	Why would a Great Scimitar have anything to do with the class he is trying to make, the CW Samurai build, or the Historical Samurai? Because it is the D&D weapon template for a curved edged sword with a long handle that can be wielded with two hands, which an expert can wield in one.
Rommel013 03-16-07, 05:14 PM	Because it is the D&D weapon template for a curved edged sword with a long handle that can be wielded with two hands, which an expert can wield in one. The curve on a scimitar is much more of a curve than that of a Katana. Also a Great Scimitar doesn't reflect the sheer amount of time and quality of a scimitar. CW says to use a masterworked Bastard Sword, I'm guessing they used a bastard to get the two handed aspect, the damage of a Katana and the masterworked to reflect the workmanship required. The Great Scimitar would only have the two handed aspect.
PrinceCurtis 03-16-07, 05:19 PM	Um samurai do normally use one sword, but they do have the daisho as well. Well if I rememeber my traditonal stuff right.... Ask me an attack from an anime, and i'll get that right. Sad really. I should read up on chinses and japanese history....
Roxlimn 03-16-07, 05:24 PM	poxjedi: I think it'll work just fine. It might be a little underpowered against casters, of course, but that's to be expected of melee classes. You'll need to increase the AC bonus significantly. These guys are supposed to wade into battle and tough it out. No matter how many hps you give them, it just won't happen without the AC, and monk AC simply isn't going to cut it. You'll need to give them lots more AC. Look into the Defense Bonus class mechanic in stuff like Wheel of Time or Star Wars to get a ballpark figure for how much AC combat characters need to function. If you're not going to give them any armor options at all, a flat +3 bonus to start, plus the Cha armor bonus, plus the +1 every 5 levels might be sufficient. This assumes that they can use Bracers of Armor and Rings of Protection, etc. like Monks can. I strongly suggest getting the free Warblade class web enchancement from the WotC site. Looking it over could give you a few ideas on how to work a Samurai of this concept. I'd also suggest searching the boards for the Hitokiri and Shinsengumi prestige classes, since your particular flavor of samurai seems to be more in line with Rurouni Kenshin than Sengoku Era.
Karzach 03-16-07, 05:36 PM	I'm convinced Kenshin is some kind of Warblade/monk/FTR gestalt/multiclass. As far as the unarmored policing Samurai is concerned, I'm not really buying it. It takes a lot of dedication to be able to reliably fight unarmored like a monk does, which is part of why the monk has the alignment and multi-classing restriction. Also, the lighter armors really aren't that imposing. In the case of a police force type class, I would probably say put em in light armor (because its cost effective) and yoink the barbarian's fast movement.
poxjedi 03-16-07, 08:04 PM	The Historical Samurai were not simply frontline warriors, although they did preform that role. They were also Body Guards of a Feudal Lord and, to some extent, keepers of the peace. And that's what they are. Except they all declare the king as their feudal lord (except the evil ones, who have the title 'Ronin' but can still gain samurai levels) My question about your build is this: Why do you want them not to wear armor? Light Armor doesn't slow your speed down at all. Why not allow them, the police of your campaign, to wear armor? At some point in time they will be in a conflict right? If their job is to keep the peace and enforce laws, they will, at some point in time, have to forcefully enforce those laws. Alright, maybe just light armor, but only special 'Samurai Garb', which is just a little bit more expensive but with a lower weight. As far as unimposing goes, it seems that would be the opposite of what you want for police officers. One of the reasons Police Officers patrol the streets is as a form of intimidation against those who would break the laws. If they were to be completely unimposing and wearing no armor, it would make the law breakers or crooks feel as if they have a pretty good chance of getting away with taking a swing at them. However, you change that up and have them wearing armor and look very intimidating, suddenly that would-be theif re-evaluates if he wants to knock over that store or not. Oh, not true! What do you remember from when you were in elementary school and you went on that field trip to the fire department? The firemen put on their mask and their helmet and all their gear and told you... what? That if you were in a burning building and you saw some sort of monstrous robot coming towards you, you should not run away. Take a look at Samurai armor. Look at those face coverings with leering fiends glaring out. Wouldn't that be at least a little bit intimidating? Yes, it would scare the bad guys, but what is the 'Staredown' ability for? And if they are wearing heavy armor, then the theives will just run for it- they know that no samurai in heavy armor can match them in a race. Even if they are a halfling and thus have low move speed, they can still climb or swim to safety easily, as the Samurai contend with his large ACP.
poxjedi 03-16-07, 08:06 PM	and yoink the barbarian's fast movement. ummm... I suggested fast movement at the start of the thread. Besides- Samurai + Rage?
poxjedi 03-16-07, 08:10 PM	poxjedi: You'll need to increase the AC bonus significantly. These guys are supposed to wade into battle and tough it out. No matter how many hps you give them, it just won't happen without the AC, and monk AC simply isn't going to cut it. If you're not going to give them any armor options at all, a flat +3 bonus to start, plus the Cha armor bonus, plus the +1 every 5 levels might be sufficient. This assumes that they can use Bracers of Armor and Rings of Protection, etc. like Monks can. Good ideas. If I allow light armor, I think I'll take out the monk-type AC bonus, but Charisma bonus to AC and a small 'parry bonus' when holding a bastard sword seem good.
MagusBlack 03-16-07, 08:59 PM	The Quintessential Samurai from Mongoose Publishing might be what your looking for. Though there are spelling errors (when are not?) and it may seem a little overpowered (most complainers are clerics). But if your looking to fill the 'fantasy' archetype of the samurai I have yet to see better ...perhaps the Rokugan is better, but I can only speak or I what I've seen. There are some errors, but fixing them shouldn’t be too hard. The Samurai of Quintessential is pretty accurate in my opinion. While not having Spot or Listen still, it does include out-of-combat skills such as: Gather Information, Sense Motive, Diplomacy, Bluff and even Perform (my favorite skill). Plus decent skills: 4+Int Weapons and armor can, if desired, be slightly modified for race. They are proficient with the daisho (the paired katana and wakizashi, though it can be changed for other races: dwarves might have a dwarven battle axe and a hand axe for example). They are also proficient with all bows and light and medium armor and shields. There sword schools too that are slightly more balanced than ToB--as these have actual costs in performing them. Better still Fighters gain a good deal of these benefits too--if lawful. It also has rules for Social Combat, in which swords are 'not' the answer. The 'honor' system is better than most I've seen (and what kind of samurai considers honor unimportant?). It also helps for adding a level of dimension to some villains. A Lawful Evil emperor may be evil, but with a Honor: 20, he has the respect of almost every vassal in his empire (be they samurai or peasant). So striking him down in the "name of good" would likely lead to a dead party at the hands of the common folk. Bah! Anyways look through as many sources as need be to find what your looking for. Failing that, pick and chose from each of them and try to make your own.
turalisj 03-16-07, 10:42 PM	Meh, I like the warblade as a samurai. The Diamond Mind and Iron Heart disciplines seem most likely to represent the samurai. Iron Heart- Can strike many foes, hard Diamond Mind- Can strike hard. Very, very hard.
Karzach 03-16-07, 10:52 PM	ummm... I suggested fast movement at the start of the thread. Besides- Samurai + Rage? I didn't see you specify a +movement speed (or perhaps it was added later) and I primarily suggested it because you said it was something you wanted in the class. Also, I'm pretty sure the fire department took one look at Rommel, then made notes to "keep an eye on that one".
Ranger REG 03-16-07, 11:28 PM	The CW samurai is barely even based on Musashi, honestly. Well, I don't know about Mayamoto Musashi's fighting technique, but the Miyamoto Musashi's technique is more defensive than offensive. :smirk:
Kazeofwinds 03-17-07, 12:44 AM	Well, I don't know about Mayamoto Musashi's fighting technique, but the Miyamoto Musashi's technique is more defensive than offensive. :smirk: What am I being criticized here for, not knowing about a second Musashi, or a spelling error I never made?
Roxlimn 03-17-07, 06:28 AM	poxjedi: I would expect that to work rather well, actually. Alternatively, you could give them a +3 armor bonus when unarmored. This allows you to have both Light Armored and Unarmored styles. You could make a series of feat progression for both styles to differentiate them from each other to give your world more texture. The no-armor ones would be more along the lines of duelists and police forces, whereas the lightly armored ones would be more along the lines of SWAT or specialized combat forces. I wouldn't make the combat prowess gap too large, though. You really still want those duelist types to kick arse, too. You can make the "parry bonus" into a Shield bonus. That seems to be the usual tack these days. That makes it simpler rather than creating a brand new AC type for stacking, and it effectively eliminates silly mechanics like buckler-wielding Samurai using their katanas two-handed. I would recommend for this Shield bonus to go up by level.
angryman 03-17-07, 06:45 AM	I quite like the OA samurai with iaijutsu master. It's a nice light fighter that is incredibly fast and can deliver lighting-quick cuts from the draw. Not saying that's the best/most accurate, just the most interesting one I've played.
poxjedi 03-17-07, 09:35 AM	poxjedi: the lightly armored ones would be more along the lines of SWAT or specialized combat forces. nice. 'Sorcerer Hunters' maybe (Sorcerers are generally seen as public enemies in the world) poxjedi:You can make the "parry bonus" into a Shield bonus. That seems to be the usual tack these days. That makes it simpler rather than creating a brand new AC type for stacking, and it effectively eliminates silly mechanics like buckler-wielding Samurai using their katanas two-handed. I would recommend for this Shield bonus to go up by level. Actually, I was going to make it a dodge bonus, but this seems good, too.
Ranger REG 03-17-07, 07:42 PM	What am I being criticized here for, not knowing about a second Musashi, or a spelling error I never made? While I'm sure "Musashi" is about as common as "John" ... about ... but the only Musashi I know -- who's known for writing the "Book of Five Rings," defeated Sasaki Kojiro and his "clothes-drying pole" sword using a long bokken carved out of an oar, and founded the Niten Ryu technique -- is Miyamoto. I have no idea who is the Musashi whose surname is Mayamoto.
Ranger REG 03-17-07, 07:57 PM	That makes it simpler rather than creating a brand new AC type for stacking, and it effectively eliminates silly mechanics like buckler-wielding Samurai using their katanas two-handed. Well, that image ranks right up there with Britney shaving her head (or Zolo the Pirate Hunter's Three-Sword Style).
JosephKell 03-17-07, 08:07 PM	Poxjedi, are you seriously suggesting that people who rode to melee battle didn't wear armor? That they ride to war wearing fancy clothes? Them samurai might've liked committing suicide, but not in that way. http://www.japaneselifestyle.com.au/culture/images/samurai.jpg Looks like armor to me.If you ask me, I think he was just watching Kenshin or Samurai Champloo.
Teh_username 03-17-07, 08:21 PM	You know this is a constant problem here. Folks have a somewhat neat idea for a class, then they ruin it by a poor choice of names. You named the class "Samurai" and thus we expect the class to be somewhat Samurai like, rather than a completely different class altogether with the same name. Change the name and you might get some of the kind of FB you like. Maybe Constable. Or, perhaps...Kenshin? :P [Edit: For a less-sarcastic answer, I'd suggest "Kensei".]
turalisj 03-17-07, 10:57 PM	If you ask me, I think he was just watching Kenshin or Samurai Champloo. Lol. I'll admit, when I think of a samurai the first thing coming to mind is an unarmed warrior running towards a group of foes faster than the speed of sound. :D
Roxlimn 03-17-07, 11:27 PM	poxjedi: Very nice, but it has to make sense, though. A "Sorcerer Hunter" has to have a solid reason to want armor, and Sorcerers usually flinging around touch attack spells makes armor look just downright silly. It's a little complicated, but in your case, if you REALLY want this flavor (and I really like that you're making a class that's strongly campaign-based), I would suggest going the extra mile and make attack spells (like Scorching Ray and Ghoul Touch) be normal attack spells, but compensate by giving them an inherent level dependent bonus (like +1/2 character levels). That way, it makes sense to wear armor against sorcerous foes.
Ranger REG 03-18-07, 03:39 AM	Lol. I'll admit, when I think of a samurai the first thing coming to mind is an unarmed warrior running towards a group of foes faster than the speed of sound. :D :uh-huh: You gotta watch Taiga Drama, or any samurai film that depict the Sengoku (Warring Era) period.
poxjedi 03-19-07, 04:58 PM	poxjedi: It's a little complicated, but in your case, if you REALLY want this flavor (and I really like that you're making a class that's strongly campaign-based), I would suggest going the extra mile and make attack spells (like Scorching Ray and Ghoul Touch) be normal attack spells, but compensate by giving them an inherent level dependent bonus (like +1/2 character levels). That way, it makes sense to wear armor against sorcerous foes. Well, that would also possibly fit the bill for a 'Wizard Hunter' or 'Bard Hunter'. Since Wizards are such trusted allies of the Empire, it would make more sense to give them something like the ranger's 'Favored Enemy', but have it apply only to enemies with at least half their levels in Sorcerer (round up). Maybe Kiai Smite deals 2x damage to characters not wearing armor.