Post/Author/DateTime	Post
FrostHammer 12-03-06, 09:07 PM	Fwee...I had some free time, and I decided to create a crit-monkey melee class that can maintain some semblance of parity with spellcasters at the higher levels. This is based on Swordmasters from the Fire Emblem series. Please evaluate and criticize honestly. Keep in mind this class is supposed to try to entice players who feel that fighter-types are too weak, so it is designed to be stronger than all of the core non-magic-using classes. I fear this class may be a little bit front-loaded, but overall I'm happy with the way it came out. refreshing points at the ecounter level instead of the per day level preserves the "fighters don't lose power with each encounter" feel. Swordmaster Hit Dice: d8 Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special . 1 +1 +0 +2 +0 Weapon Triangle, Bonus Feat: Weapon Focus 2 +2 +0 +3 +0 Sword Point +2 3 +3 +1 +3 +1 Sword Finesse, Bonus Feat: Combat Expertise 4 +4 +1 +4 +1 Sword Defense, Uncanny Dodge 5 +5 +1 +4 +1 Sword Point +2 6 +6/+1 +2 +5 +2 Evasion, Armor Fluidity 7 +7/+2 +2 +5 +2 Double Hit 8 +8/+3 +2 +6 +2 Bonus Feat: Greater Weapon Focus, Sword Point +1 9 +9/+4 +3 +6 +3 Freedom of Movement 1/day 10 +10/+5 +3 +7 +3 Bonus Feat: Improved Critical 11 +11/+6/+1 +3 +7 +3 Sword Point +1 12 +12/+7/+2 +4 +8 +4 Greater Armor Fluidity 13 +13/+8/+3 +4 +8 +4 Bonus Feat: Sense Weakness 14 +14/+9/+4 +4 +9 +4 Penetrating Strike, Sword Point +1 15 +15/+10/+5 +5 +9 +5 Accurate style 16 +16/+11/+6/+1 +5 +10 +5 Freedom of Movement 2/day 17 +17/+12/+7/+2 +5 +10 +5 Supreme Armor Fluidity, Sword Point +1 18 +18/+13/+8/+3 +6 +11 +6 Freedom 1/day 19 +19/+14/+9/+4 +6 +11 +6 Special Ability 20 +20/+15/+10/+5 +6 +12 +6 Bonus Move, Sword Point +1 The Swordmaster's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are: Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Diplomacy (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Jump (Str), Sense Motive (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex). Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) X 4. Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier. Weapon and Armour Proficiencies: Swordmasters are proficient all Simple and Martial Weapons, and with light armors. Swordmasters are not proficient with any shields. None of the Swordmaster’s Extraordinary abilities function if she wields a shield or wears medium/heavy armor, or if she dual-wields. Bonus Feat: Weapon Focus: At 1st level, a Swordmaster chooses one weapon type (must be a sword) and she gains Weapon Focus with that weapon. A Swordmaster must be proficient in the weapon in order to choose that weapon. (i.e., if she wishes to gain weapon focus in an exotic weapon such as the Wo Dao, she must already be proficient in it, such as by spending her level 1 feat gaining proficiency in the weapon) At 8th level, she also received Greater Weapon Focus for the same weapon as a bonus feat. This weapon can only be used by Swordmasters. New Exotic Weapon Cost Dmg (S) Dmg (M) Critical Weight Type . Wo Dao 40 gp 1d8 1d10 18-20/x2 4 lb. Slashing Weapon Triangle: A Swordmaster’s fighting style is very suited for fighting against axes of all kinds. The downside is that the style is also less efficient against lances and spears of all kinds. When wielding a sword, she gains a +2 Triangle bonus to all attack rolls against axe-wielders, and -2 to all attack rolls against lance/spear-wielders. Sword Point (Ex): At levels 2 and 5, the Swordmaster gains 2 Sword points. At every 3 levels afterwards (8, 11, 14, 17, 20, 23, etc) the Swordmaster gains one Sword point. The pool of points is refreshed at the end of each encounter (or after one hour after the use of a Sword Point, whichever comes first). A Swordmaster must be wielding a sword to gain the benefits of using Sword Points. Each of the abilities costs one point to activate. A Swordmaster may have multiple Sword Point effects active at a time. Intelligent enemies who pass a knowledge check on Swordmasters or have fought you in the past may notice when you have activated your powers, and may change tactics accordingly. Here is what Sword Points can be used for: Piercing Strike: As a free action during anyone’s turn, choose one target that is normally immune to critical hits (such as aberrations, constructs, oozes, plants and undead). For a number of rounds equal to 1 + your Dex modifier (minimum 1), your critical hits can affect that target normally. Precise Strike: As a free action during your turn, you gain a +3 Precision bonus to your Attack tolls for a number of rounds equal to 1 + your Dex modifier (minimum 1). Graceful Form: As a free action during your turn, you gain a +4 Graceful bonus to your dexterity for a number of rounds equal to 2 + your Cha modifier (minimum 2). You become visibly more graceful. Counter Form: As a free action during your turn, you adopt a stance that allows you to counter-attack anyone who initiates a hostile action against you (attack, bull-rush, trip, cast spell on you, attacks of opportunity, etc) and is within your attack range. After their hostile action is complete, you may make one attack at your normal bonus against the attacker. If the Swordmaster has Double Hit, AND has at least 4 more Dex than the attacker, then she makes two attacks instead of one, both at the normal bonus. You may not counter-attack if you are immobilized or helpless or asleep, nor may you counter-attack if the attack connects and leaves you prone (like from being tripped). You may not counter-attack another counter-attack. This form lasts for a number of rounds equal to 1 + your Cha modifier (minimum 1). Sword Finesse (Ex): Starting at third level, a Swordmaster may use her Dex modifier instead of her Str modifier on attack rolls when wielding a sword. Bonus Feat: Combat Expertise: At 3rd level, a Swordmaster gains Combat Expertise as a bonus feat. Sword Defense (Ex): Starting at 4th level, and every 4 levels after that (8, 12, 16, 20, 24, etc), a Swordmaster gains a +1 Dodge bonus to AC when wielding a sword. Uncanny Dodge (Ex): Starting at 4th level, a Swordmaster can react to danger before her senses would normally allow her to do so. She retains her Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) even if she is caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. However, she still loses his Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized. Evasion (Ex): At 6th level or higher, a Swordmaster can avoid even magical and unusual attacks with great agility. If She makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save (such as a red dragon's fiery breath, or a Fireball spell), she instead takes no damage. A helpless swordmaster (such as one who is unconscious or paralyzed) does not gain the benefit of Evasion. Armor Fluidity (Ex): At 6th level, as long as the Swordmaster is wearing light armor, her maximum Dex bonus in that armor is doubled. Her armor check penalty is reduced by one. At level 12 she gains Greater Armor Fluidity, and the effects are now tripling the maximum Dex bonus, and reducing the ACP by two. At level 17 she gains Supreme Armor Fluidity, and the effects are quadrupling the maximum Dex Bonus, and reducing the ACP by three. Double Hit (Ex): At 7th level, whenever a Swordmaster makes a normal attack (either using the Standard or the Full-round action), she may get an extra attack at her normal bonus if the target she is attacking has at least 4 less Dexterity than the Swordmaster. Freedom of Movement (Su): At 9th level, as a standard action (but without any verbal, somatic, or material components), the Swordmaster gains the ability to give herself (and only herself) the effects of a Freedom of Movement spell once a day, at a caster level equal to her Swordmaster level. This is a supernatural ability (It not subject to being dispelled, or disjunctioned. It will, however, be suppressed in an anti-magic field). At 16th level, she can do this twice per day. Bonus Feat: Improved Critical: At 10th level, the Swordmaster gains Improved Critical as a bonus feat. It applies to the weapon type that she chose for the Weapon Focus at level 1. Bonus Feat: Sense Weakness: At 12th level, the Swordmaster gains Sense Weakness as a bonus feat. Whenever you attack with a weapon with which you have Weapon Focus, you may ignore up to 5 points of the target’s Damage Reduction. This benefit cannot reduce the effective DR to less than 0. Penetrating Strike (Ex): At 14th level, the Swordmaster’s attacks hit vulnerable spots even easier than before. She gains a bonus to equal to her Dex modifier to confirm critical hits. This bonus stacks with Power Critical, and only functions while the Swordmaster wields a sword. Accurate Style (Ex): At 15th level, the Swordmaster become even more accurate than before! While wielding a sword, she gains a +1 Sword-Accuracy bonus to all of her attack rolls. This bonus increases further by +1 every 4 levels above level 15 (19, 23, 27, etc). Freedom (Su): At 18th level, as a free action, the Swordmaster can use this supernatural ability on herself once a day. This ability mimics a Freedom spell, and can’t be counter-spelled. She can use this ability without being able to speak or move (i.e. she can use this ability while helpless. As long as she is conscious, she can use this ability) Special Ability (Ex): At 19th level, the Swordmaster can choose to gain one of the following: Improved Evasion: This ability works like evasion, except that while the Swordmaster still takes no damage on a successful reflex save against attacks such as a dragon's breath weapon or a Fireball spell, henceforth she takes only half damage on a failed save. A helpless swordmaster (such as one who is bound, unconscious, or paralyzed) does not gain the benefit of Improved Evasion. Improved Uncanny Dodge: A Swordmaster who takes this ability cannot be flanked; she can react to opponents on either side of her as easily as she can react to a single attacker. This ability denies the use of the sneak attack ability by enemies, unless the enemy is four of more levels higher than the Swordmaster. Powerful Cut: By this point in her career, a Swordmaster is so skilled with swordplay that any sword she wields gets a +3 bonus to its damage rolls. Bonus Move (Ex): At 20th level, the Swordmaster is incredibly fast, her movement and many blows seem to take very little time at all! In effect, this gives her an extra move action, so she can move and still perform a full-round attack.
The_Normal_Anomaly 12-03-06, 10:18 PM	Hey, I would use it. I don't see anything screaming "broken!" like a three year old who just obliterated their favorite toy. Double Hit looks like the only thing I have a gripe with. It looks like you were aiming for an ability of the Iaijutsu Master where you get a similar benefit. It allows you to make a second attack in a standard action at your highest bonus -5. It doesn't help with a full attack, but it does allow you to get an extra attack in a suprise round or on the run. The reason I bring this up is that it can only be gained at level 14, so yours at level 7 didn't seem to quite match. I don't think it would be totally broken to just change it out with the Iaijutsu Master style one, however all decisions are left up to you. Perhaps my largetst complaint is that the ability being based on your opponent rather than yourself. That has two flaws as far as I can see, however they may be intentional: A character who gets an ability like this will probably have a good (natural or magic) dex score so that the ability will work most of the time, if you get the extra attack you just found out what your opponents dex score could be at most although there are other ways to do this. I look forward to seeing your thoughts on the matter. I don't know why, but my money is still on the fighter. Although generally called a lower class, I see them in relation to their arcane friends. Barbarian is the sorcerer, fighter is the wizard. You will always know what the Swordmaster has in store, the fighter may well pull out a spiked chain, a spear, a whip, a bow, or even use his bare hands. Of this could be in the same match even. I don't wish to start a "fighters suck" thread, but I guess I am the kind of person who takes flexible over powerful (it may not have been the best character ever, but the fighter with the whole improved [blank] feat set was really fun.) [edit] Also add some more info on the sword. Is it light, one-handed, two-handed? What size is it... no that was v 3.0. You will need a good explanation of why "This weapon can only be used by Swordmasters" though. That would be fun, the Swordmaster fighting a poser fighter claiming to be a Swordmaster, both of them using the signature sword. Is there any special penalty for using it if you don't have levels of Swordmaster?
SuichimoTheDragoon 12-03-06, 10:50 PM	Just a little nitpicking on my part. This shouldn't be a base class but a prestige class.
FrostHammer 12-04-06, 02:46 AM	The Wo Dao is a one-handed weapon. Clarification on the Wo Dao: Only a Swordmaster is likely to gain a Wo Dao due to their rarity in the world. The DM should not hand out any Wo Daos to Swordmaster wannabes. As for the Double Hit ability: It is to emulate a mechanic in Fire Emblem. In FE, if two characters enter combat, if the attacker has 4 or more speed than the defender, she gets to attack, get countered, and then attack again. If the defender has the 4 speed advantage, she gets to counter twice after enduring the one hit from the attacker.
VonRichthofen 12-04-06, 09:57 AM	Fire Emblem uber-swordgods seem to be quite the rage these days, once again as I may point out. Your class-specific weapon sounds mighty odd. Apart from the fact that it is seriously overpowered, why should no other class be capable of making/wielding one of their own? If every swordmaster had to make his own, unique due to some mystic ability - meh, yet... oh well - but to just point out: "Others don't get it, it's rare!" sounds like an especially weak in-game explanation for your declared target of "They just should be unbalanced towards other combat classes". Since the whole class is geared towards uber-dexterity, plus nigh unlimited light armor capability ( well at least as long as you're not above 50 Dex...) & extra AC bonus, it seems quite useless to say: If my Dex is 4 higher than yours', I basically get one extra attack for free. That's gonna happen towards almost every creature from a certain point onwards. Apart from that, things like "Robilar's Gambit without penalties for me & two counter-attacks per opportunity" seem too blatantly overpowered. BUt that is your declared intention after all, so I won't go too deep into a power analysis - these have beeen just some points of taste. Bottom line: Since no sane DM will ever allow this, don't feel to take care about these arguments. :D
Nitan 12-04-06, 10:07 AM	Your class-specific weapon sounds mighty odd. Apart from the fact that it is seriously overpowered, why should no other class be capable of making/wielding one of their own? I assume it's an exotic weapon. If that's true, it is exactly the same, except it can't do Piercing damage, as an Elven Courtblade. In other words, overpowered = no. Strange that no one else can use the weapon? Yes. Then again, when you can wield an Elven Courtblade which has an advantage over it with no extra cost, that's not to be unexpected. Bottom line: Since no sane DM will ever allow this, don't feel to take care about these arguments. :D I'd allow this class. It doesn't seem broken to me, just a bit silly in some places. An extra attack as part of a Full-Round action? Oh no...
VonRichthofen 12-04-06, 10:40 AM	I assume it's an exotic weapon. If that's true, it is exactly the same, except it can't do Piercing damage, as an Elven Courtblade. I'd allow this class. It doesn't seem broken to me, just a bit silly in some places. An extra attack as part of a Full-Round action? Oh no... Since you seem to know so well about what you're talking... :D Feel free to re-read the courtblade, it's a two-handed weapon. 'nough said concerning competence.
Nitan 12-04-06, 10:59 AM	Since you seem to know so well about what you're talking... :D Feel free to re-read the courtblade, it's a two-handed weapon. 'nough said concerning competence. Oh? I thought his clarification post had said that his exotic weapon was two-handed. It was the opposite. It's still hardly broken. Elven Thinblade, 1d8, 18-20 critical. What does his funny weapon have on top of that? An average of 1 damage. Ah yes, I also forgot another selling point of both weapons. They can be used with Weapon Finesse. His weapon cannot. But yes, it's broken, broken, 2 more damage on average than a scimitar. That's going to shatter the D&D world.
VonRichthofen 12-04-06, 12:31 PM	. Ah yes, I also forgot another selling point of both weapons. They can be used with Weapon Finesse. His weapon cannot. Wrong again. It's a swordmaster-only weapon and he gets it for free at 3rd level (for swords).
FrostHammer 12-04-06, 01:33 PM	It's a one-handed weapon, but since the class abilities cease to function if the Swordmastrer dual wields or wields a shield, it is effectively going to be wielded two-handed by the Swordmaster.
Nitan 12-04-06, 03:34 PM	Wrong again. It's a swordmaster-only weapon and he gets it for free at 3rd level (for swords). No, I'm correct, try reading closer. The class does not get Weapon Finesse. This weapon cannot be finessed. The class itself has a class ability (Sword Finesse which is quite different from Weapon Finesse) to apply its dexterity bonus instead of its strength bonus to attack rolls. In other words, the weapon itself is hardly unbalanced which what you were arguing against in the first place.
VonRichthofen 12-04-06, 04:19 PM	The class itself has a class ability (Sword Finesse which is quite different from Weapon Finesse) to apply its dexterity bonus instead of its strength bonus to attack rolls. Sir, would you care to explain what Weapon Finesse is doing for a character if not allowing dexterity to substitute strength for attack rolls - from your esteemed point of view? As far as I can see, the only difference is that Sword Finesse counts for all swords, while Weapon Finesse is for light weapons, rapiers & and a few exotic weapons. Well, to make a long story short, I am indeed very interested in your lecture on how this makes a notable difference to a finessable weapon for the swordmaster. You may rest assured that I'd prefer to cease this dreary argument, but since Sir keeps on insisting that my humble person's line of thought is all wrong, I shall be happy to finally hear something to prove his point.
FrostHammer 12-04-06, 04:29 PM	Since the whole class is geared towards uber-dexterity, plus nigh unlimited light armor capability ( well at least as long as you're not above 50 Dex...) & extra AC bonus, it seems quite useless to say: If my Dex is 4 higher than yours', I basically get one extra attack for free. That's gonna happen towards almost every creature from a certain point onwards. That is most certainly intended, I assure you. In Fire Emblem, your Swordmasters typically beat 90% of the enemies by 4 speed or more. This is because Swordmasters tend to have low strength, and do less damage per hit than other characters. I feel that melee characters need a boost anyways, to keep them on par witht he CoDzillas, and an extra hit goes far in giving that boost. Notice how Strength is not a stat Swordmasters would tend to pump (since Dex and Cha affect SM abilities)? That means while the Fighter gets like a +12 damage bonus per hit from Strength while wielding his Greatsword, the Swordmaster will be lucky to have +2 or +3 unless the SM gets like a 55 point buy or something. Apart from that, things like "Robilar's Gambit without penalties for me & two counter-attacks per opportunity" seem too blatantly overpowered. BUt that is your declared intention after all, so I won't go too deep into a power analysis - these have beeen just some points of taste. The enemies don't HAVE to attack the Swordmaster. The SM has to spend a Sword Point to counter, and the smart enemies can see that, and try to go after the spellcasters, for example. Although I can see some really fun combos with Knight/Swordmaster multi-classes. And again, I feel even the stuff in PHB2 is not making the Fighter powerful enough, so this is *supposed* to be better than what Robilar's Gambit and the likes have to offer. As to what DMs would allow it, how about DMs with players that all insist on playing spellcasters because they see the Fighter types as without enough options, and near dead-weight in many situations in higher levels? None of the 6 players I know are willing to play a Figher type. Plenty of Beguilers, Arcane Tricksters, Wizards, Elemental Savants, etc.
FrostHammer 12-04-06, 04:32 PM	Sir, would you care to explain what Weapon Finesse is doing for a character if not allowing dexterity to substitute strength for attack rolls - from your esteemed point of view? As far as I can see, the only difference is that Sword Finesse counts for all swords, while Weapon Finesse is for light weapons, rapiers & and a few exotic weapons. Well, to make a long story short, I am indeed very interested in your lecture on how this makes a notable difference to a finessable weapon for the swordmaster. You may rest assured that I'd prefer to cease this dreary argument, but since Sir keeps on insisting that my humble person's line of thought is all wrong, I shall be happy to finally hear something to prove his point. I believe he means that if somehow a non-Swordmaster character got a hold of a Wo Dao, he can't apply Weapon Finess to it. As to a Swordmaster effectively having weapon finess for the Wi Dao, it is intended, and necessary. Since Dexterity is supposed to be the primary stat of the Swordmaster, it would not make sense to add another stat that the SM needs to pump. The SM already needs Cha, Dex, and Con (with the d8 instead of d10 hit points and all).
VonRichthofen 12-04-06, 04:57 PM	You are aware that a high-level primary spellcaster will still own your swordmaster at will? You complain about your players not wanting warrior types. Maybe the fault is with the DM? In my campaigns, people occansionally have to consider problems like reduced/interrupted resting periods, numerous battles per day, creatures with high spell resistance/imunities, and many more inconveniencies. Spellcasters are more powerful than warriors at high levels, but they do not mono-dominate the game unless the DM allows for it. Apart from that, what does your swordmaster improve about this situation? Warrior classes with maxed-out damage potential can deal hundreds of damage per round already. Apart from Evasion, your SM is not better off against the supposed prime threat, the oh-so incredibly uber-powerful prime casters. Of course you can build as many melee-gods as you like, go ahead, feel free. Yet your argument is flawed at best, since your SM is only good against other melee characters. Against casters, he's more or less the same than a fighter or barbarian. And since casters seem to be the problem, since all players consider them superior, why do you throw in an other combatant that can do boatloads of damage? From my point of view, you should introduce your caster-heavy players to some real pain in the form of the Mageslayer feat chain, NPCs with the Occult Slayer PrC, golems, undead, whatever - and the simple notion that they're not gonna rest unmolested after every other encounter, thus making regaining your spells not an automatic procedure. It might take a little bit of creativity, but it can be managed without any extra classes that do not even adress the perceived main problem.
FrostHammer 12-04-06, 05:06 PM	I actually considered giving some sort of magic evasion to the Swordmaster, since in FE evasion can make both physicals and magical attacks miss. but I wasn't sure if giving SMs Spell Resistance would make them too good. Maybe SR = to 10 + 1/2 SM level + 1/2 Dodge AC? And the point wasn't for a SM to be mage-killers. Just to make them better than existing melee classes. EDIT: I think I'll add some special movement abilities to really make them different from the Barbarian and Fighter. EDIT2: Actually my point really was to make a melee class that does what the fighter is SUPPOSED to do (which the fighter can't do all that well, according to the myriad of threads about Fighters aroun here): Tank and dish out the physical hurt without needing uber heavy optimization from many different (and possibly Splat) books. I haven't calculated average damage yet but I think the SM probably out-damages a figher. If the Figher optimizes, so can the SM.
Nitan 12-05-06, 12:29 AM	Spell Resistance would be alright except that a good caster doesn't care about things like Spell Resistance. An excellent caster laughs at Anti-magic fields. After all, a summoned Solar can't be negated can it? Now, your class in my eyes in balanced as it can contribute both in battle and out of battle. That's good. Can it contribute enough that taking another Druid wouldn't be a no brainer though? Here's an idea. Perhaps at level 12 or so, instead of the +1 to attack, you give it a "Sunder Anything" ability, allowing the Swordmaster to cut through force effects, breaking Walls of Force and Forcecages.
VonRichthofen 12-05-06, 04:12 AM	And the point wasn't for a SM to be mage-killers. Just to make them better than existing melee classes. That's quite clear. Yet no matter how powerful you will make your melee abilities, you do not adress your perceived caster problem. As I said, a well-build combatant can drop hundreds of damage in a given round, going into the thousands with heavily optimized builds. If your players all want to play casters, damage output can hardly be the reason - unless they don't understand the game. And thus, your SM won't improve on the problem. A fighter/occult slayer with the right feats will be more effective & legal. Nitan's force-cutting effect is nice and good, you'll only have to be aware of the fact that casters will possibly feel cheated once their precious Force Cage is no longer useful - and then will start laughing once they get access to spell like Prismatic Sphere. :D
VonRichthofen 12-05-06, 04:38 AM	An excellent caster laughs at Anti-magic fields. After all, a summoned Solar can't be negated can it? WARNING to those still on topic: This thread is turning into something of a personal argument between Nitan and my humble person, so if you feel our thoughts on the matter are no longer called for, please harbor no compunctions against vocalizing them. I shall try and not be overly offended. ;) Now Nitan Sir, you're once again demonstrating some admirable flexibility concerning the rules of our fair game. ;) First off, since we are not talking Epic here: The highest level celestial you could bring forth with a summon monster IX spell is about 12 HD, same goes for hellish/demonic creatures. Even if you are willing to trade favors with a powerful celestial via the greater planar ally spell, 18 HD is the capstone. If your DM, on the other hand, should allow for Gate spell to bring an Epic creature into a non-epic game - well that's not to be helped, but neither to be expected beforehand by any player - thus, a Solar in a pre-epic game could only be there by the DM's leniency - for if you can call an Epic Angel, next time the BBEG will call an Epic Fiend plus companions, and hey! There goes the party... :eek: And here's the prime counter, the bottom line so to speak: Since your solar (if you ever get one, cough) is indeed a summoned creature, no matter how you happen to turn it, he indeed but WINKS OUT once he enters an antimagic field. :D
Nitan 12-05-06, 01:39 PM	By the rules you can summon Solars with Gate. If you choose to call a kind of creature instead of a known individual you may call either a single creature (of any HD) or several creatures. You can call and control several creatures as long as their HD total does not exceed your caster level. In the case of a single creature, you can control it if its HD do not exceed twice your caster level. A single creature with more HD than twice your caster level can’t be controlled. Deities and unique beings cannot be controlled in any event. An uncontrolled being acts as it pleases, making the calling of such creatures rather dangerous. An uncontrolled being may return to its home plane at any time. However, they are not considered summoned. They are called. Called creatures do not wink out in an anti-magic field. Now, Solars are the pinnacle of good, which is what most adventuring parties strive to do. They'll help and not return to wreak vengeance, especially if you offer them pay, which you can under the Gate rules. Pit Fiends and Balors are the pinnacle of their respective evils. They are decidedly weaker than a Solar. Past them, you get named Fiends who will definitely come back for your soul even if you pay. Either way, that's why Spellcasters are good BBEGs, not warriors. They might not be busting out the Solar support, but Balors and Pit Fiends are pretty nice too. As to other spell effects, might I suggest something along the lines of "Dispelling Blade" at like 8th level and "Greater Dispelling Blade" at 14th, both which allow for the Swordmaster to duplicate the spells effect by hitting the target.
FrostHammer 12-05-06, 05:12 PM	that sounds intriguing. At what caster level? I'm also thinking of revising the blade by making it not an exotic weapon, but making it grow in power as the character gains more Swordmaster levels. Or have it give the Swordmaster bonuses as the SM gets more SM levels. I'll PM you the details later.
Repeekluos 12-05-06, 05:57 PM	Sword Defense should be a deflection bonus, not a dodge bonus. On the balance issue; It is very obviously more powerful than the core classes, but so is just about everything that comes out now. I dont see anything that would make me ban outright.
FrostHammer 12-05-06, 06:05 PM	You mean more powerful than the core Melee classes :D Almost nothing beats a Cleric.
Repeekluos 12-05-06, 06:26 PM	You mean more powerful than the core Melee classes :D Almost nothing beats a Cleric. That is indeed what I meant.
FrostHammer 12-05-06, 06:33 PM	Oh btw why do you say Sword defense should be a Deflection bonus? The Swordmaster derives the vast majority of its survivability by actually dodging hits in Fire Emblem, and I wanted that reflected here. This of course means that if a SM is helpless, he also loses that AC...
Repeekluos 12-05-06, 06:49 PM	Put a clause in SD that says he loses the bonus when helpless. An SM should rely on dodging, and deflecting blows, much like real sword fighters. It should definitely be a deflection bonus though.
FrostHammer 12-05-06, 06:57 PM	Does it really matter what kind of bonus it gives? I guess it could mean rings protection now mean squad...
Repeekluos 12-05-06, 07:06 PM	Does it really matter what kind of bonus it gives? I guess it could mean rings protection now mean squad... I guess it really doesn't, considering dodge bonuses always stack. I just think a deflection bonus makes more sense. Just my thoughts.
FrostHammer 12-05-06, 07:15 PM	I think that was my intent anyways. The Swordmaster needs as much AC as possible, given that he doesn't have super damage, to be honest.
Nitan 12-05-06, 10:41 PM	Caster level = Class level perhaps?
OneWinged4ngel 12-05-06, 11:30 PM	The Wo Dao is a one-handed weapon. Clarification on the Wo Dao: Only a Swordmaster is likely to gain a Wo Dao due to their rarity in the world. The DM should not hand out any Wo Daos to Swordmaster wannabes. It's 40 bloody gp. Shouldn't be too hard to get or make.
VonRichthofen 12-06-06, 09:26 AM	By the rules you can summon Solars with Gate. However, they are not considered summoned. They are called. Called creatures do not wink out in an anti-magic field. You've got me there. They are indeed called. Still, do you think an epic creature, that can not even be killed by non-epic characters/creatures (okay, spells with the evil descriptor might do the trick, but try that only to kill a solar...) has a place in non-epic D&D? Even the demon princes/dukes of hell with their challenge rating up to 23 (equal to the solar) or even 27 (Asmo) are constructed to succumb to non-epic damage. And there's a special passage in the FC I on how to upgrade them to epic HD/DR for an Epic campaign. This leads me into firmly believing that Epic creatures with Epic Damage Reduction & Regeneration should not be the lapdogs of non-epic players to command.
Nitan 12-06-06, 11:31 AM	They are the rules unfortunately. That's why Gate is part of the trio of anti-Core is balanced spells (There are actually 4 but trio sounds nicer). The Demon Princes are generally considered "aspects" at that level. You can take them as an actual Demon Lord, but aspects would be far more consistent. A well constructed level 19 party of 4 should stand a 50/50 chance to beat a Solar, so it's not that epic per say.
FrostHammer 12-06-06, 02:16 PM	Bah...stupid finals and stuff! Must...find...time...to...update. Can you "Banish" called creatures?
Firestar27 12-06-06, 08:19 PM	Can you put other classes from Fire Emblem into Dnd? And still keep them balanced like you did for Swordmaster? You did a great job. I love Fire Emblem so this was great. You kept to the game and made it balanced which is very hard to do. Have a cookie. Have a bunch! :cookie: :cookie: :cookie: :cookie: :cookie: :cookie:
FrostHammer 12-06-06, 08:42 PM	I was thinking of doing Berserker, but they'd be very similar (not getting bonuses to +hit but getting bonuses to +damage since Berserkers hit hard) If I were to do anything next it'd be a Pegasus Knight. However, I'm totally crappy at designing anything involving mounts or companions and keeping balance. Plus since Peg Knights are also female only it might look a bit too much like Valarian's Beloved :p Well, Pegasus Knight would be a base class not a prestige class so that's different.
Nitan 12-06-06, 10:11 PM	Banishment dismisses creatures from outer planes so I'd assume it would work. Still...that's getting pretty off topic. A class based on mounted combat is nice in theory but make sure it has some skills when not on saddle.
FrostHammer 12-06-06, 10:17 PM	I'll probably make the Pegasus focus more on defense than offense so it's harder to kill than normal. I'll also probably make the PEg Knight have 3 sets of abilities. One set is always active. Another is only active while riding. The third is active while not riding.
Firestar27 12-23-06, 10:37 PM	What about the lord class? (like ephraim). Or why not the hero class? (lightly armored, good with axe and sword). Or the general (ultra armored spear fighter.). Or the axe-fighter (it is what it sounds like but with little armor). Or the pirate (two weapon fighting battle axe/hand axe). Just presenting ideas. But the other non-mounted classes are already done by WoTC. (Druid = necromancer, knight = fighter/knight, sage = wizard/sorcerer/warmage,) Also, :bump:
Firestar27 01-18-07, 10:21 PM	:bump: This thread shall never die!