A question about Favored Souls [Archive] - Wizards Community

A question about Favored Souls [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
HVulpes
09-24-05, 10:42 AM My question: The Favored Soul has Knowledge(Arcana) as a class skill and cast Divine spells. My question is how do they go about casting epic spells? Do they need to charge up the cross-skill Knowledge (Religion)? Or is it some how Arcana based? Or is it possible that they have Religion as a skill. Thanks.
Sluagh
09-24-05, 11:41 AM Spells: The favored soul's caster level is equal to her class level. The favored soul's number of spells per day does not increase after 20th level. The favored soul does not learn additional spells.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ei/20031206a

That kinda sucks.
StormCrow42
09-24-05, 01:23 PM Yes, just like every other caster (who's spell progressions don't grant more spell slots after level 20, and for spontanious casters don't grant extra spells known either), favored souls have to take the epic feats Improved Spell Capacity and Spell Knowledge. (found in the DMG page 210 or in the SRD)
HVulpes
09-24-05, 10:24 PM Epic spells is a different type of spell casting which is based on knowledge checks, Spellcraft checks and a feat. You have to have Knowledge (Arcana==Arcane Casters, Religion==Divine casters save Druids, and Nature==Druids), with the number of epic spells per day being the Knowledge skill divided by 10. And you have to be 25 to take the feat. It seems that Religion would be the feat for Favored Soul, but they do not have it as a class skill. So it would take twice as long to gain these spells without special cirumstances. Like the Education feat in FR. This is what my question relate to.
Sluagh
09-24-05, 11:01 PM Yeah, I'd say we Favoured Soul players are kinda screwed in that department. The class gets the shaft in a couple places and this seems to be yet another. I still like it though.
Douglas Zuver
09-24-05, 11:30 PM Anybody know of a Feat that changes a cross classed skill into a class skill???
ReadError
09-25-05, 10:10 AM Able Learner in Races of Destiny, you have to take it at 1st level
Shike
09-25-05, 10:42 AM Ahh, Epic Spell Casting also requires the ability to cast 9th level spells.
Vestigial_Thumb
09-25-05, 10:42 AM Able Learner in Races of Destiny, you have to take it at 1st level
Nuhuh. It just lets you buy cross-class skills at class skill price. The rank cap is still there.
caeruleus
09-25-05, 11:55 AM Anybody know of a Feat that changes a cross classed skill into a class skill???

There is such a feat, but it has a prerequisite. You need to have the Ability to Make Up Rules on Your Own and Not Be Completely Reliant on Books feat. Once you get that, you can just make up your own feat that allows you to select a cross class skill and make it a class skill.
slade_caizer
09-25-05, 12:04 PM Yes, just like every other caster (who's spell progressions don't grant more spell slots after level 20, and for spontanious casters don't grant extra spells known either), favored souls have to take the epic feats Improved Spell Capacity and Spell Knowledge. (found in the DMG page 210 or in the SRD)Those two feats do not require the ability to cast epic spells. The only feat denied a caster without 23 ranks in the relevant knowledge skill is Epic Spellcasting--at least as far as I can remember and think is appropriate to this discussion.

An infamous "trick" is to take Improved Spell Capacity eight times and use it to garner a 9th level spell as an Innate Spell (via the feat of the same name). Most choose Wish or Miracle.

Improved Spell Capacity only provides higher level spell slots. It doesn't provide new spells to place in them. However, any epic caster without the ability for epic spells could still pop a metamagic-enhanced spell into that higher slot. For that matter it could just be a lower level spell that is more necessary at the time.

The two feats you mentioned do require the ability to cast the normal maximum level of spell alotted to a given class. For many that is 9th level spells. For some that is 4th. A few others have other limits.

I anticipate someone might say that epic is the maximum. Unfortunately, when discussing epic spells and spell slots there is no maximum. A spell can be of a limitlessly high level as long as an individual with a high enough level and the right abilities comes along. Prior to taking the Epic Spellcasting feat, however, there is a maximum (which I already mentioned).
-----
Returning to the topic...I think taking Able Learner or Education (not sure about that last one) at 1st level would allow the Favored Soul to make Knowledge (Religion) forever a class skill. That would let a character have the opportunity to take Epic Spellcasting faster.
danielinthewolvesden
09-25-05, 12:43 PM Just simply rule that FS use KA instead of KR for Epic abilities.
JBW
09-25-05, 12:52 PM Anybody know of a Feat that changes a cross classed skill into a class skill???

Skill Knowledge (Uneathed Arcana, page 81) has two wys of doing what you ask. The first allows you to take any two current class skills and make them class skills for all of your classes. This really only helps multiclass characters. The second option is to simply pick a single cross-class skill that is then treated as a class skill. Taken at first level, and you exchange a feat for an expanded skill list from the start. I've never seen anyone but a human do this (Sorcerer added UMD to skill list), but your experiences may differ.

Jay
Douglas Zuver
09-25-05, 12:57 PM Skill Knowledge (Uneathed Arcana, page 81) has two wys of doing what you ask. The first allows you to take any two current class skills and make them class skills for all of your classes. This really only helps multiclass characters. The second option is to simply pick a single cross-class skill that is then treated as a class skill. Taken at first level, and you exchange a feat for an expanded skill list from the start. I've never seen anyone but a human do this (Sorcerer added UMD to skill list), but your experiences may differ.

Jay

Thanks
:)
StormCrow42
09-25-05, 02:21 PM Those two feats do not require the ability to cast epic spells. The only feat denied a caster without 23 ranks in the relevant knowledge skill is Epic Spellcasting--at least as far as I can remember and think is appropriate to this discussion.
I was replying to Sluagh's quote about the Favored Soul not gaining any more spells (text duplicated from the Sorcerer and Bard epic class progressions). My response wasn't meant to be a comment on the OP's question as I've never read the ELH's rules on epic spells.
Douglas Zuver
09-25-05, 03:48 PM Home > Games > D&D > Articles

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Epic Insights
Epic Miniatures Handbook
By James Jacobs

The Miniatures Handbook introduces four new standard classes to Dungeons & Dragons. This month, Epic Insights presents epic class features for these new classes. Epic-level favored souls, healers, marshals, and warmages follow the same standard rules (given on pages 206-207 of the Dungeon Master's Guide) as the standard classes from the Player's Handbook, but their epic class features are unique.

Epic Favored Soul

An epic favored soul continues to grow closer to her deity, gaining more and more divine characteristics and resistances. A truly high level epic favored soul is easily mistaken for an angel, devil, demon, or similar outsider.

Hit Die: d8.

Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 2 + Int modifier.

Spells: The favored soul's caster level is equal to her class level. The favored soul's number of spells per day does not increase after 20th level. The favored soul does not learn additional spells.

Improved Energy Resistance (Ex): Starting at 22nd level, and every four levels thereafter, the favored soul adds +10 to one of her three energy resistances.

Divine Gift (Ex): At 25th level and every five levels thereafter, a favored soul's bond with her deity grows stronger and manifests physically. She can choose any one of the following benefits at this time.

Damage Reduction (Ex): The favored soul's damage reduction increases by +2.

Increased Flight: The favored soul's flying speed increases by +10 ft.

Natural Armor: The favored soul's natural armor bonus increases by +2.

Sacred Ability: The favored soul gains a +1 bonus to an ability score of her choice. Each time this gift is chosen, the favored soul must select a new ability to modify.

Sacred Skill: The favored soul gains a +4 sacred bonus on one skill. Each time this gift is chosen, the favored soul must select a new skill to modify.

Sacred Spell: The favored soul selects one spell she knows; the selected spell's level must be equal to or less than her favored soul level divided by 10. She can cast this spell one time each day without expending a spell slot, and each time she casts this spell it resolves at caster level +2. Each time this gift is chosen, the favored soul must select a new spell to make sacred.

These benefits carry with them some form of physical change appropriate to the favored soul's deity. This can be something as simple as glowing eyes, or it can be something as impressive as skin made of liquid fire. In all cases, apart from the actual game benefit granted by the divine gift, this change is physical only.

Bonus Feats: The epic favored soul gains a bonus feat (selected from the list of epic favored soul feats) at 23rd level and again every three levels after that.

Epic Favored Soul Bonus Feat List: Craft Epic Magic Arms and Armor, Devastating Critical, Dire Charge, Enhance Spell, Epic Endurance, Epic Prowess, Epic Speed, Epic Spell Focus, Epic Spell Penetration, Epic Spellcasting, Epic Weapon Focus, Epic Weapon Specialization, Extend Life Span, Ignore Material Components, Improved Combat Casting, Improved Heighten Spell, Improved Metamagic, Improved Spell Capacity, Intensify Spell, Overwhelming Critical, Perfect Health, Permanent Emanation, Spell Stowaway, Tenacious Magic.

Epic Favored Soul
Level Special
21 --
22 Improved energy resistance
23 Bonus feat
24 --
25 Divine gift
26 Improved energy resistance, bonus feat
27 --
28 --
29 Bonus feat
30 Improved energy resistance, divine gift

Might as well see the Epic Favored Soul article since we are discussing it.
Sluagh
09-25-05, 06:03 PM Might as well see the Epic Favored Soul article since we are discussing it.

I linked directly to it in my initial post.
Jayr
09-25-05, 08:05 PM Versatile from Oriental Adventures, or Educated (book unsure, must be taken at 1st level).
Korimyr the Rat
09-26-05, 01:24 AM How about you just switch their class skills?

Knowledge: religion makes a lot more sense than Knowledge: arcana does, and for the parallel, Sorcerors have Knowledge: arcana despite being "untrained".
slade_caizer
09-26-05, 03:49 AM I was replying to Sluagh's quote about the Favored Soul not gaining any more spells (text duplicated from the Sorcerer and Bard epic class progressions). My response wasn't meant to be a comment on the OP's question as I've never read the ELH's rules on epic spells.Ah, I misunderstood. My apologies.
Sluagh
09-26-05, 07:20 AM I can understand why FS doesn't have Knowledge (Religion) as a class skill, based on the flavour text; they're not indoctrinated into the religious organizations and often lack the formarl education and training that clerics get... hence the lack of the skill. However, I do think it should be there, especially if they get Knowledge (Arcane) which makes a little less sense.
D-Dus
09-26-05, 07:40 AM The lack of Knowledge (religion) is not that strange when you look at the flavour. The FS doesn't have anything to do with religious traditions, undead and other areas Knowledge (religion) covers.
Imo Knowledge (aracana) actually makes more sense falvourwise. Knowledge (aracana) is supposed to be knowledge of magic in general (magical beasts, magical traditions, see PHB) and knowledge of these things seems to fit better with the FS then Knowledge (religion). The FS is an innate magical being, that's why Knowledge (arcana) should be a class skill. Only because a FS casts divine spells doesn't mean it should get Knowledge (religion)

If you keep the flavour in mind of the FS and you look at the problems this causes in epic levels, imo the solution is not to change the FS in some way, but to change the rules of the epic levels to fit the FS.

Just my two cents ;)
Douglas Zuver
09-26-05, 11:54 AM Since we are mostly talking about 1 feat-Epic Spellcasting (P54 Epic Level Handbook), it would seem that a DM should make an interpretation of the text and how it would apply to a Favored Soul.

Adding Spellcraft 24, Knowledge (arcana) 24, Ability to cast 9th level Favored Soul divine spells as an additional prerequisite seems very reasonable to me.

Epic Spells take a lot of time and big amounts of money to research anyway.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
HVulpes 09-24-05, 10:42 AM	My question: The Favored Soul has Knowledge(Arcana) as a class skill and cast Divine spells. My question is how do they go about casting epic spells? Do they need to charge up the cross-skill Knowledge (Religion)? Or is it some how Arcana based? Or is it possible that they have Religion as a skill. Thanks.
Sluagh 09-24-05, 11:41 AM	Spells: The favored soul's caster level is equal to her class level. The favored soul's number of spells per day does not increase after 20th level. The favored soul does not learn additional spells. http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ei/20031206a That kinda sucks.
StormCrow42 09-24-05, 01:23 PM	Yes, just like every other caster (who's spell progressions don't grant more spell slots after level 20, and for spontanious casters don't grant extra spells known either), favored souls have to take the epic feats Improved Spell Capacity and Spell Knowledge. (found in the DMG page 210 or in the SRD)
HVulpes 09-24-05, 10:24 PM	Epic spells is a different type of spell casting which is based on knowledge checks, Spellcraft checks and a feat. You have to have Knowledge (Arcana==Arcane Casters, Religion==Divine casters save Druids, and Nature==Druids), with the number of epic spells per day being the Knowledge skill divided by 10. And you have to be 25 to take the feat. It seems that Religion would be the feat for Favored Soul, but they do not have it as a class skill. So it would take twice as long to gain these spells without special cirumstances. Like the Education feat in FR. This is what my question relate to.
Sluagh 09-24-05, 11:01 PM	Yeah, I'd say we Favoured Soul players are kinda screwed in that department. The class gets the shaft in a couple places and this seems to be yet another. I still like it though.
Douglas Zuver 09-24-05, 11:30 PM	Anybody know of a Feat that changes a cross classed skill into a class skill???
ReadError 09-25-05, 10:10 AM	Able Learner in Races of Destiny, you have to take it at 1st level
Shike 09-25-05, 10:42 AM	Ahh, Epic Spell Casting also requires the ability to cast 9th level spells.
Vestigial_Thumb 09-25-05, 10:42 AM	Able Learner in Races of Destiny, you have to take it at 1st level Nuhuh. It just lets you buy cross-class skills at class skill price. The rank cap is still there.
caeruleus 09-25-05, 11:55 AM	Anybody know of a Feat that changes a cross classed skill into a class skill??? There is such a feat, but it has a prerequisite. You need to have the Ability to Make Up Rules on Your Own and Not Be Completely Reliant on Books feat. Once you get that, you can just make up your own feat that allows you to select a cross class skill and make it a class skill.
slade_caizer 09-25-05, 12:04 PM	Yes, just like every other caster (who's spell progressions don't grant more spell slots after level 20, and for spontanious casters don't grant extra spells known either), favored souls have to take the epic feats Improved Spell Capacity and Spell Knowledge. (found in the DMG page 210 or in the SRD)Those two feats do not require the ability to cast epic spells. The only feat denied a caster without 23 ranks in the relevant knowledge skill is Epic Spellcasting--at least as far as I can remember and think is appropriate to this discussion. An infamous "trick" is to take Improved Spell Capacity eight times and use it to garner a 9th level spell as an Innate Spell (via the feat of the same name). Most choose Wish or Miracle. Improved Spell Capacity only provides higher level spell slots. It doesn't provide new spells to place in them. However, any epic caster without the ability for epic spells could still pop a metamagic-enhanced spell into that higher slot. For that matter it could just be a lower level spell that is more necessary at the time. The two feats you mentioned do require the ability to cast the normal maximum level of spell alotted to a given class. For many that is 9th level spells. For some that is 4th. A few others have other limits. I anticipate someone might say that epic is the maximum. Unfortunately, when discussing epic spells and spell slots there is no maximum. A spell can be of a limitlessly high level as long as an individual with a high enough level and the right abilities comes along. Prior to taking the Epic Spellcasting feat, however, there is a maximum (which I already mentioned). ----- Returning to the topic...I think taking Able Learner or Education (not sure about that last one) at 1st level would allow the Favored Soul to make Knowledge (Religion) forever a class skill. That would let a character have the opportunity to take Epic Spellcasting faster.
danielinthewolvesden 09-25-05, 12:43 PM	Just simply rule that FS use KA instead of KR for Epic abilities.
JBW 09-25-05, 12:52 PM	Anybody know of a Feat that changes a cross classed skill into a class skill??? Skill Knowledge (Uneathed Arcana, page 81) has two wys of doing what you ask. The first allows you to take any two current class skills and make them class skills for all of your classes. This really only helps multiclass characters. The second option is to simply pick a single cross-class skill that is then treated as a class skill. Taken at first level, and you exchange a feat for an expanded skill list from the start. I've never seen anyone but a human do this (Sorcerer added UMD to skill list), but your experiences may differ. Jay
Douglas Zuver 09-25-05, 12:57 PM	Skill Knowledge (Uneathed Arcana, page 81) has two wys of doing what you ask. The first allows you to take any two current class skills and make them class skills for all of your classes. This really only helps multiclass characters. The second option is to simply pick a single cross-class skill that is then treated as a class skill. Taken at first level, and you exchange a feat for an expanded skill list from the start. I've never seen anyone but a human do this (Sorcerer added UMD to skill list), but your experiences may differ. Jay Thanks :)
StormCrow42 09-25-05, 02:21 PM	Those two feats do not require the ability to cast epic spells. The only feat denied a caster without 23 ranks in the relevant knowledge skill is Epic Spellcasting--at least as far as I can remember and think is appropriate to this discussion. I was replying to Sluagh's quote about the Favored Soul not gaining any more spells (text duplicated from the Sorcerer and Bard epic class progressions). My response wasn't meant to be a comment on the OP's question as I've never read the ELH's rules on epic spells.
Douglas Zuver 09-25-05, 03:48 PM	Home > Games > D&D > Articles -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Epic Insights Epic Miniatures Handbook By James Jacobs The Miniatures Handbook introduces four new standard classes to Dungeons & Dragons. This month, Epic Insights presents epic class features for these new classes. Epic-level favored souls, healers, marshals, and warmages follow the same standard rules (given on pages 206-207 of the Dungeon Master's Guide) as the standard classes from the Player's Handbook, but their epic class features are unique. Epic Favored Soul An epic favored soul continues to grow closer to her deity, gaining more and more divine characteristics and resistances. A truly high level epic favored soul is easily mistaken for an angel, devil, demon, or similar outsider. Hit Die: d8. Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 2 + Int modifier. Spells: The favored soul's caster level is equal to her class level. The favored soul's number of spells per day does not increase after 20th level. The favored soul does not learn additional spells. Improved Energy Resistance (Ex): Starting at 22nd level, and every four levels thereafter, the favored soul adds +10 to one of her three energy resistances. Divine Gift (Ex): At 25th level and every five levels thereafter, a favored soul's bond with her deity grows stronger and manifests physically. She can choose any one of the following benefits at this time. Damage Reduction (Ex): The favored soul's damage reduction increases by +2. Increased Flight: The favored soul's flying speed increases by +10 ft. Natural Armor: The favored soul's natural armor bonus increases by +2. Sacred Ability: The favored soul gains a +1 bonus to an ability score of her choice. Each time this gift is chosen, the favored soul must select a new ability to modify. Sacred Skill: The favored soul gains a +4 sacred bonus on one skill. Each time this gift is chosen, the favored soul must select a new skill to modify. Sacred Spell: The favored soul selects one spell she knows; the selected spell's level must be equal to or less than her favored soul level divided by 10. She can cast this spell one time each day without expending a spell slot, and each time she casts this spell it resolves at caster level +2. Each time this gift is chosen, the favored soul must select a new spell to make sacred. These benefits carry with them some form of physical change appropriate to the favored soul's deity. This can be something as simple as glowing eyes, or it can be something as impressive as skin made of liquid fire. In all cases, apart from the actual game benefit granted by the divine gift, this change is physical only. Bonus Feats: The epic favored soul gains a bonus feat (selected from the list of epic favored soul feats) at 23rd level and again every three levels after that. Epic Favored Soul Bonus Feat List: Craft Epic Magic Arms and Armor, Devastating Critical, Dire Charge, Enhance Spell, Epic Endurance, Epic Prowess, Epic Speed, Epic Spell Focus, Epic Spell Penetration, Epic Spellcasting, Epic Weapon Focus, Epic Weapon Specialization, Extend Life Span, Ignore Material Components, Improved Combat Casting, Improved Heighten Spell, Improved Metamagic, Improved Spell Capacity, Intensify Spell, Overwhelming Critical, Perfect Health, Permanent Emanation, Spell Stowaway, Tenacious Magic. Epic Favored Soul Level Special 21 -- 22 Improved energy resistance 23 Bonus feat 24 -- 25 Divine gift 26 Improved energy resistance, bonus feat 27 -- 28 -- 29 Bonus feat 30 Improved energy resistance, divine gift Might as well see the Epic Favored Soul article since we are discussing it.
Sluagh 09-25-05, 06:03 PM	Might as well see the Epic Favored Soul article since we are discussing it. I linked directly to it in my initial post.
Jayr 09-25-05, 08:05 PM	Versatile from Oriental Adventures, or Educated (book unsure, must be taken at 1st level).
Korimyr the Rat 09-26-05, 01:24 AM	How about you just switch their class skills? Knowledge: religion makes a lot more sense than Knowledge: arcana does, and for the parallel, Sorcerors have Knowledge: arcana despite being "untrained".
slade_caizer 09-26-05, 03:49 AM	I was replying to Sluagh's quote about the Favored Soul not gaining any more spells (text duplicated from the Sorcerer and Bard epic class progressions). My response wasn't meant to be a comment on the OP's question as I've never read the ELH's rules on epic spells.Ah, I misunderstood. My apologies.
Sluagh 09-26-05, 07:20 AM	I can understand why FS doesn't have Knowledge (Religion) as a class skill, based on the flavour text; they're not indoctrinated into the religious organizations and often lack the formarl education and training that clerics get... hence the lack of the skill. However, I do think it should be there, especially if they get Knowledge (Arcane) which makes a little less sense.
D-Dus 09-26-05, 07:40 AM	The lack of Knowledge (religion) is not that strange when you look at the flavour. The FS doesn't have anything to do with religious traditions, undead and other areas Knowledge (religion) covers. Imo Knowledge (aracana) actually makes more sense falvourwise. Knowledge (aracana) is supposed to be knowledge of magic in general (magical beasts, magical traditions, see PHB) and knowledge of these things seems to fit better with the FS then Knowledge (religion). The FS is an innate magical being, that's why Knowledge (arcana) should be a class skill. Only because a FS casts divine spells doesn't mean it should get Knowledge (religion) If you keep the flavour in mind of the FS and you look at the problems this causes in epic levels, imo the solution is not to change the FS in some way, but to change the rules of the epic levels to fit the FS. Just my two cents ;)
Douglas Zuver 09-26-05, 11:54 AM	Since we are mostly talking about 1 feat-Epic Spellcasting (P54 Epic Level Handbook), it would seem that a DM should make an interpretation of the text and how it would apply to a Favored Soul. Adding Spellcraft 24, Knowledge (arcana) 24, Ability to cast 9th level Favored Soul divine spells as an additional prerequisite seems very reasonable to me. Epic Spells take a lot of time and big amounts of money to research anyway.