A question from a newbie going to use wizard [Archive] - Wizards Community

A question from a newbie going to use wizard [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
lw982245
11-10-06, 11:57 AM I will try to play a wizard soon.
However, I don't know which spells I should choose, as well as feats.

I try to identify my char to be a supporter in combat role instead of a damage maker. Furthermore, I hope my knowledge skill can help others in non-combat situation. I think a pure wizard can do that, but is there any better alternative?

P.S. The mod only use the 3 Core books
Puca
11-10-06, 12:43 PM A pure wizard can, and quite well.
Bards and clerics are also good supporters, and sorcerers can do a lot of the stuff wizards can.

Bards are as good or better than wizards in the knowledge department.

Which of those you want to play, and how to make them good, depends a lot on your party. Most important though is having fun.

Were I starting with a core only, level-one wizard, Id max my Concentration, Arcana, and Spellcraft skills. Id try to cover, but not max, a couple of other skills as well based on what the rest of the party is. (Let the cleric do Religion; let the ranger do Nature.)
Id also take a couple of ranks, but probably not max Decipher Script.

If I have any remaining skill-points, Id either use them to support my backstory (Craft or Profession) or something defensive: Tumble, Spot, Listen, Balance, etc.

Im going to buy a crossbow and hope it doesnt come down to using it. Im going to buy a dagger and hope I never have to draw it. Im going to get some alchemical items (flasks of acid, alchemists fire, but Tanglefoot bags are too heavy cuz I dumped Str.)

Spells:
You get to start with 3 level-one spells plus your Int modifier, which is hopefully at least +2.

You want to cover some basic general areas. I would try to pick one spell from each of the following areas. (In know there are a lot, but many spells fall into more than one.)
Prepare based on your best guess as to what you will need that day (talk to your other casters) and make as many scrolls as possible when you have gp and xp to do so.

Defense (AC)
Mage Armor and Shield are your two options. Take Mage Armor. Shield is nice, but the duration is so short you can only cast it in combat and it wont last long enough at this level to help you much any way.

Defense (Other)
I mean by this other spells that keep the enemy from hitting you or even targeting you at all. This is a very broad area, since so much can fit here, but an example could be Obscuring Mist, which gives you Concealment.

Offense (single target)
These can be either direct-damage, save-or-die, or de-buff types.
Magic Missile is a great direct damage. It never misses, so it is especially good for those casters who gave their Con a greater priority than their Dex.
Ray of Enfeeblement is a good de-buff at any level. No save, touch attack.
There arent a lot of single-target save-or-dies at this level, Charm Person might fit into this category. If your opponent fails his save, hes pretty much done.

I didnt include touch spells like Chill Touch or Shocking Grasp because for gods sake stay out of melee.

Offense (area)
Sleep, Burning Hands, Color Spray.
All good. Burning Hands is direct damage. Decent, but I would not take it. You should have a fighter-type in front of you, and youll hit him. Same thing with Color Spray, but at least it isnt lethal.
Sleep is an excellent Save-or-die at this level, but beware of that one-round casting time.

Battlefield Control
This is about deciding where your opponents are, who they attack, and how.
If they are archers, put I Silent Image of a wall in between you and them. Nasty charging orcs? Grease will give them pause.

Movement
Expeditious Retreat is great. Feather Fall is good. Mount? Buy a horse when you have the money. A riding horse cost less than the cost of scribing this spell.

Utility
This is everything else.
Comprehend Languages is nice to have on a scroll. Same with Identify, but you are too poor to cast in now anyway.
Grease can do a lot. Silent Image can do a lot.
At this level, I love Enlarge Person. Cast it on the guy with a reach weapon and Combat Reflexes and he will control the battlefield as well as any spell you can cast.
Summon Monster does anything you want it to: Set off a trap, attack, defend, whatever, but the duration is too short to use it much at this level and the casting time is too long.

Remember when you are selecting spells for your book and preparing them to not forget about your Cantrips. Is Magic Missile better than Ray of Frost? Hell yeah! But is it better than preparing Ray of Frost as an attack spell and Grease as a possible battlefield-control or offense or defense or utility spell? No.

Core only, 15 Int, right now, Id place in my book at first level:
Enlarge Person
Grease
Mage Armor
Sleep
Magic Missile
The_Shaman
11-10-06, 12:50 PM I would suggest maybe taking magic missile later. At first, the damage isn't very good. Color spray may do better, especially if you have a good intelligence score. If you have it that when you fire from behind a warrior it doesn't affect him (after all, he's not looking at it), it is even better.

Enlarge person is very useful if you have a strong warrior, especially using a heavy weapon, as it increases both his strength and the weapon's size.
Puca
11-10-06, 01:24 PM There is no facing in 3.5, so where the fighter was looking doesnt matter. It is a very solid spell. Great if you find yourself about to be mobbed by kobolds or something, and even worst case it doesnt kill your ally.

Magic Missile averages 3.5 damage, which is about the best direct-damage spell you can have at level-one especially when you consider that it automatically hits everything without a Shield spell up. I would try to have a couple of scrolls of it and save my slots for spells that grant as save.
Daxen
11-10-06, 03:41 PM Not to get tangential, but the lack of facing is the dumbest thing I have ever heard of. What do you mean it doesn't matter where someone is looking. This should be fixed in game mechanics and in every game I have ever played it is house-ruled to some extent.

That all aside what type of support do you want to do?

There are several different ways to be a support caster.

Buff/DeBuff
Battlefield Control
Enemy Domination
Precognition

If you want to you could go Diviner and lose Evocation. You get an extra spell slot per spell level per day and you deny yourself a school that is the epitome of what you don't do.

Divination is utility at it's finest Detect Secret Doors, Comprehend Languages, Identify these are all spells that can aid in a lot of situations.

Your Int Stat and a clearer picture of exactly what you want to do will help us help you.

If this guy is reduced to having to deal damage he hasn't done his job properly. I don't think that you should take any first level damage spells right away. As a new player trying to work out a character that does not rely on damaging spells it is best to leave them out for the first level. THen the character can have a moment of clarity as he attains second level and realises hey sometimes you just gotta kill a &#$*.
Tarkwin
11-10-06, 04:27 PM the other nice thing about enlarge person is that it draws attention and agression away from you :D
The_Shaman
11-10-06, 04:32 PM Hey, if you want to use someone as a meatshield, might as well have him a big meatshield.:D

Does it work on an enraged (large) goliath barbarian? I mean, can you get him to huge?

I agree on the grease though. You can really get creative with it... technically, you could cast it on a cleric's holy symbol. Then, with a DM who can appreaciate the laugh... "Self-righteous fools! I will call the powers of Hell against you. Be prepared to regret your last moments in this world... As soon as I pick up my unholy symbol, that is. Can you leave and come in a minute so that I get this stuff out?". I am also a fan of protection from evil. +2 deflection bonus to AC and +2 to saves is nice enough, also summoned evil/fiendish creatures can't touch you with natural weapons, and no mind-control spells or abilities from evil sources work (good for casting on the fighter). PfE + Mage armor = +6 to ac against evil opponents. Neat enough, right?
Tony Vargas
11-10-06, 04:50 PM P.S. The mod only use the 3 Core books

However, I don't know which spells I should choose, as well as feats.Feat choice is heavily dependent on the nature of the campaign, and that may not be something you know until it's too late.

For instance, if you take Spell Focus: Enchantment, you can put people to Sleep a bit better. If you then go on to face few opponents vulnerable to that spell, you do poorly at first. The trend might well continue. Item Creation is a great boon for the wizard, but if you rarely have the gold and/or downtime to make items, it's largely wasted. Wizards are dependent on thier spellbooks, and Spell Mastery reduces that dependence - but if the DM treats your book as sacrosanct (some do), again, it's a wasted feat.

Spell choice is less of an issue, as you can always learn new spells as the game progresses - assuming your DM presents you with the opportunity to do so (scrolls or captured spellbooks, plus the time and access to materials needed record them).

I try to identify my char to be a supporter in combat role instead of a damage maker. Furthermore, I hope my knowledge skill can help others in non-combat situation. I think a pure wizard can do that, but is there any better alternative?A bard can perform the role you describe very well, possibly better than a wizard, depending on the specifics of party composition and campaign situations.

The Wizard is actually a pretty tedious class to play. You need to become very familiar with the whole arcane list - you not only need to know which of your prepared spells is best to cast each round, but which spells would be best to prepare for the coming days, and which would be worth learning to deal specifically with the next adventure on the horizon. There's some extra bookeeping, too. You need to keep tabs on your gold to make sure you can afford to add to your spellbook and make items when the opportunity arises, and you'll be spending exp on items, as well. You'll probably want to create and keep track of a lot of scrolls, as well, as they allow you to make more of your spells known available at any given moment. And, of course, you need to tailor your daily spell selection as much as possible to the challenges you expect to face that day.

A spontaneous caster isn't exactly carefee, either (not compared to, say, a barbarian), but it's less troublesome than a prepped one. With a Bard or Sorcerer, you only have to put a lot of thought into your new spells known when you level up, and only need to become really familiar with those spells. You don't have to worry as much about which spells you use as the day progresses, either, as you can continue to access any spell you know as long as you retain at least one of the highest level you can cast.
Witchcraft
11-10-06, 05:07 PM Wasnt there a feat called..umm...College Wizard or something. It gives you more spells each level. Oh I cant remember what it is from *searches through books*!
Puca
11-10-06, 05:52 PM Collegiate Wizard. From CA. Its in a sidebar near the back.

Very, very good feat.
The_Shaman
11-10-06, 06:00 PM Either that or the Elven wizard substitution series (from RotW) - you have an extra spell known each level and a bonus slot for your highest level.

I'd agree with Tony (gosh, that sounds familiar... I should just quote that in my signature): if you're playing a wizard, you need to get quite familiar with all the spells you know. With a sorcerer, the stress of choosing spells is worse, but it's only when you level up (or get a new D&D book :D); with a wizard it's every time you prepare spells. However, if you can spare a few XPs, a few scrolls can help you when you run out of spells.
Witchcraft
11-10-06, 06:12 PM Either that or the Elven wizard substitution series (from RotW) - you have an extra spell known each level and a bonus slot for your highest level.

I'd agree with Tony (gosh, that sounds familiar... I should just quote that in my signature): if you're playing a wizard, you need to get quite familiar with all the spells you know. With a sorcerer, the stress of choosing spells is worse, but it's only when you level up (or get a new D&D book :D); with a wizard it's every time you prepare spells. However, if you can spare a few XPs, a few scrolls can help you when you run out of spells.

Or both! About the XP thingy there is an XP varaint that I fould on-line. Basically you get an articifers XP pool-thing-majig. There is also a feat that gain his "extract essence" (is that what it is?) The preqs are tough. Just food for thought!
ninjarabbit
11-10-06, 06:43 PM At low levels a wizard should wear leather armor and be content with being a crossbowman. The 10% ASF is tolerable and you don't have to spend a spell slot on defense. The crossbow will do as much damage as any damage spell you'll be casting so again you're saving spell slots.

Sleep and color spray are going to be your best offensive options

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
lw982245 11-10-06, 11:57 AM	I will try to play a wizard soon. However, I don't know which spells I should choose, as well as feats. I try to identify my char to be a supporter in combat role instead of a damage maker. Furthermore, I hope my knowledge skill can help others in non-combat situation. I think a pure wizard can do that, but is there any better alternative? P.S. The mod only use the 3 Core books
Puca 11-10-06, 12:43 PM	A pure wizard can, and quite well. Bards and clerics are also good supporters, and sorcerers can do a lot of the stuff wizards can. Bards are as good or better than wizards in the knowledge department. Which of those you want to play, and how to make them good, depends a lot on your party. Most important though is having fun. Were I starting with a core only, level-one wizard, Id max my Concentration, Arcana, and Spellcraft skills. Id try to cover, but not max, a couple of other skills as well based on what the rest of the party is. (Let the cleric do Religion; let the ranger do Nature.) Id also take a couple of ranks, but probably not max Decipher Script. If I have any remaining skill-points, Id either use them to support my backstory (Craft or Profession) or something defensive: Tumble, Spot, Listen, Balance, etc. Im going to buy a crossbow and hope it doesnt come down to using it. Im going to buy a dagger and hope I never have to draw it. Im going to get some alchemical items (flasks of acid, alchemists fire, but Tanglefoot bags are too heavy cuz I dumped Str.) Spells: You get to start with 3 level-one spells plus your Int modifier, which is hopefully at least +2. You want to cover some basic general areas. I would try to pick one spell from each of the following areas. (In know there are a lot, but many spells fall into more than one.) Prepare based on your best guess as to what you will need that day (talk to your other casters) and make as many scrolls as possible when you have gp and xp to do so. Defense (AC) Mage Armor and Shield are your two options. Take Mage Armor. Shield is nice, but the duration is so short you can only cast it in combat and it wont last long enough at this level to help you much any way. Defense (Other) I mean by this other spells that keep the enemy from hitting you or even targeting you at all. This is a very broad area, since so much can fit here, but an example could be Obscuring Mist, which gives you Concealment. Offense (single target) These can be either direct-damage, save-or-die, or de-buff types. Magic Missile is a great direct damage. It never misses, so it is especially good for those casters who gave their Con a greater priority than their Dex. Ray of Enfeeblement is a good de-buff at any level. No save, touch attack. There arent a lot of single-target save-or-dies at this level, Charm Person might fit into this category. If your opponent fails his save, hes pretty much done. I didnt include touch spells like Chill Touch or Shocking Grasp because for gods sake stay out of melee. Offense (area) Sleep, Burning Hands, Color Spray. All good. Burning Hands is direct damage. Decent, but I would not take it. You should have a fighter-type in front of you, and youll hit him. Same thing with Color Spray, but at least it isnt lethal. Sleep is an excellent Save-or-die at this level, but beware of that one-round casting time. Battlefield Control This is about deciding where your opponents are, who they attack, and how. If they are archers, put I Silent Image of a wall in between you and them. Nasty charging orcs? Grease will give them pause. Movement Expeditious Retreat is great. Feather Fall is good. Mount? Buy a horse when you have the money. A riding horse cost less than the cost of scribing this spell. Utility This is everything else. Comprehend Languages is nice to have on a scroll. Same with Identify, but you are too poor to cast in now anyway. Grease can do a lot. Silent Image can do a lot. At this level, I love Enlarge Person. Cast it on the guy with a reach weapon and Combat Reflexes and he will control the battlefield as well as any spell you can cast. Summon Monster does anything you want it to: Set off a trap, attack, defend, whatever, but the duration is too short to use it much at this level and the casting time is too long. Remember when you are selecting spells for your book and preparing them to not forget about your Cantrips. Is Magic Missile better than Ray of Frost? Hell yeah! But is it better than preparing Ray of Frost as an attack spell and Grease as a possible battlefield-control or offense or defense or utility spell? No. Core only, 15 Int, right now, Id place in my book at first level: Enlarge Person Grease Mage Armor Sleep Magic Missile
The_Shaman 11-10-06, 12:50 PM	I would suggest maybe taking magic missile later. At first, the damage isn't very good. Color spray may do better, especially if you have a good intelligence score. If you have it that when you fire from behind a warrior it doesn't affect him (after all, he's not looking at it), it is even better. Enlarge person is very useful if you have a strong warrior, especially using a heavy weapon, as it increases both his strength and the weapon's size.
Puca 11-10-06, 01:24 PM	There is no facing in 3.5, so where the fighter was looking doesnt matter. It is a very solid spell. Great if you find yourself about to be mobbed by kobolds or something, and even worst case it doesnt kill your ally. Magic Missile averages 3.5 damage, which is about the best direct-damage spell you can have at level-one especially when you consider that it automatically hits everything without a Shield spell up. I would try to have a couple of scrolls of it and save my slots for spells that grant as save.
Daxen 11-10-06, 03:41 PM	Not to get tangential, but the lack of facing is the dumbest thing I have ever heard of. What do you mean it doesn't matter where someone is looking. This should be fixed in game mechanics and in every game I have ever played it is house-ruled to some extent. That all aside what type of support do you want to do? There are several different ways to be a support caster. Buff/DeBuff Battlefield Control Enemy Domination Precognition If you want to you could go Diviner and lose Evocation. You get an extra spell slot per spell level per day and you deny yourself a school that is the epitome of what you don't do. Divination is utility at it's finest Detect Secret Doors, Comprehend Languages, Identify these are all spells that can aid in a lot of situations. Your Int Stat and a clearer picture of exactly what you want to do will help us help you. If this guy is reduced to having to deal damage he hasn't done his job properly. I don't think that you should take any first level damage spells right away. As a new player trying to work out a character that does not rely on damaging spells it is best to leave them out for the first level. THen the character can have a moment of clarity as he attains second level and realises hey sometimes you just gotta kill a &#$*.
Tarkwin 11-10-06, 04:27 PM	the other nice thing about enlarge person is that it draws attention and agression away from you :D
The_Shaman 11-10-06, 04:32 PM	Hey, if you want to use someone as a meatshield, might as well have him a big meatshield.:D Does it work on an enraged (large) goliath barbarian? I mean, can you get him to huge? I agree on the grease though. You can really get creative with it... technically, you could cast it on a cleric's holy symbol. Then, with a DM who can appreaciate the laugh... "Self-righteous fools! I will call the powers of Hell against you. Be prepared to regret your last moments in this world... As soon as I pick up my unholy symbol, that is. Can you leave and come in a minute so that I get this stuff out?". I am also a fan of protection from evil. +2 deflection bonus to AC and +2 to saves is nice enough, also summoned evil/fiendish creatures can't touch you with natural weapons, and no mind-control spells or abilities from evil sources work (good for casting on the fighter). PfE + Mage armor = +6 to ac against evil opponents. Neat enough, right?
Tony Vargas 11-10-06, 04:50 PM	P.S. The mod only use the 3 Core books However, I don't know which spells I should choose, as well as feats.Feat choice is heavily dependent on the nature of the campaign, and that may not be something you know until it's too late. For instance, if you take Spell Focus: Enchantment, you can put people to Sleep a bit better. If you then go on to face few opponents vulnerable to that spell, you do poorly at first. The trend might well continue. Item Creation is a great boon for the wizard, but if you rarely have the gold and/or downtime to make items, it's largely wasted. Wizards are dependent on thier spellbooks, and Spell Mastery reduces that dependence - but if the DM treats your book as sacrosanct (some do), again, it's a wasted feat. Spell choice is less of an issue, as you can always learn new spells as the game progresses - assuming your DM presents you with the opportunity to do so (scrolls or captured spellbooks, plus the time and access to materials needed record them). I try to identify my char to be a supporter in combat role instead of a damage maker. Furthermore, I hope my knowledge skill can help others in non-combat situation. I think a pure wizard can do that, but is there any better alternative?A bard can perform the role you describe very well, possibly better than a wizard, depending on the specifics of party composition and campaign situations. The Wizard is actually a pretty tedious class to play. You need to become very familiar with the whole arcane list - you not only need to know which of your prepared spells is best to cast each round, but which spells would be best to prepare for the coming days, and which would be worth learning to deal specifically with the next adventure on the horizon. There's some extra bookeeping, too. You need to keep tabs on your gold to make sure you can afford to add to your spellbook and make items when the opportunity arises, and you'll be spending exp on items, as well. You'll probably want to create and keep track of a lot of scrolls, as well, as they allow you to make more of your spells known available at any given moment. And, of course, you need to tailor your daily spell selection as much as possible to the challenges you expect to face that day. A spontaneous caster isn't exactly carefee, either (not compared to, say, a barbarian), but it's less troublesome than a prepped one. With a Bard or Sorcerer, you only have to put a lot of thought into your new spells known when you level up, and only need to become really familiar with those spells. You don't have to worry as much about which spells you use as the day progresses, either, as you can continue to access any spell you know as long as you retain at least one of the highest level you can cast.
Witchcraft 11-10-06, 05:07 PM	Wasnt there a feat called..umm...College Wizard or something. It gives you more spells each level. Oh I cant remember what it is from searches through books!
Puca 11-10-06, 05:52 PM	Collegiate Wizard. From CA. Its in a sidebar near the back. Very, very good feat.
The_Shaman 11-10-06, 06:00 PM	Either that or the Elven wizard substitution series (from RotW) - you have an extra spell known each level and a bonus slot for your highest level. I'd agree with Tony (gosh, that sounds familiar... I should just quote that in my signature): if you're playing a wizard, you need to get quite familiar with all the spells you know. With a sorcerer, the stress of choosing spells is worse, but it's only when you level up (or get a new D&D book :D); with a wizard it's every time you prepare spells. However, if you can spare a few XPs, a few scrolls can help you when you run out of spells.
Witchcraft 11-10-06, 06:12 PM	Either that or the Elven wizard substitution series (from RotW) - you have an extra spell known each level and a bonus slot for your highest level. I'd agree with Tony (gosh, that sounds familiar... I should just quote that in my signature): if you're playing a wizard, you need to get quite familiar with all the spells you know. With a sorcerer, the stress of choosing spells is worse, but it's only when you level up (or get a new D&D book :D); with a wizard it's every time you prepare spells. However, if you can spare a few XPs, a few scrolls can help you when you run out of spells. Or both! About the XP thingy there is an XP varaint that I fould on-line. Basically you get an articifers XP pool-thing-majig. There is also a feat that gain his "extract essence" (is that what it is?) The preqs are tough. Just food for thought!
ninjarabbit 11-10-06, 06:43 PM	At low levels a wizard should wear leather armor and be content with being a crossbowman. The 10% ASF is tolerable and you don't have to spend a spell slot on defense. The crossbow will do as much damage as any damage spell you'll be casting so again you're saving spell slots. Sleep and color spray are going to be your best offensive options