A rewrite of the Fighter core class! [Archive] - Wizards Community

A rewrite of the Fighter core class! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Of Flame And Ash
07-11-05, 03:55 PM The Fighter

Hit Die: d10.
BAB: Good.
Saves: Fortitude and Reflex Good, Will Poor.
Skill Points/Level: 4 + Intelligence modifier.
Class Skills: As the PHB Fighter, plus Balance (Dex), Listen (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), and Tumble (Dex).

Class Abilities:
1. Bonus Feat
2. Bonus Feat
3. Combat Tactic
4. Bonus Feat
5. Weapon Mastery (+1)
6. Combat Tactic
7. Bonus Feat
8. Bonus Feat
9. Combat Tactic
10. Weapon Mastery (+2)
11. Bonus Feat
12. Leadership, Combat Tactic
13. Bonus Feat
14. Bonus Feat
15. Weapon Mastery (+3), Combat Tactic
16. Bonus Feat
17. Bonus Feat
18. Combat Tactic
19. Bonus Feat
20. Cohort, Weapon Mastery (+4)

Bonus Feat: At the listed levels, the Fighter gains one feat for which he qualifies. He must choose a feat relating to physical combat; he cannot choose a metamagic feat, for example. The DM may use his discretion in this matter.
Combat Tactic: At the listed levels, the Fighter becomes more skilled in using his weapon, shield, armor, and even the terrain to gain an advantage in combat. The Fighter may use one Combat Tactic per round, unless specifically stated otherwise. He may choose from the following list:
Parry: The Fighter gains a +2 deflection bonus to his Armor class against one opponent/5 levels. Prerequisite: Dexterity 15+.
Shield Bash: The Fighter can bash his enemies' brains in using his shield. His shield offers no natural Armor Class bonus for the duration of the round, although magical enhancements still have their effect. However, the Fighter may make an attack with his shield at his full BAB in addition to his normal attacks. The shield does damage based on its size:
Small Shield - d4 + 1, Critical Hit on 19-20.
Medium Shield - d6 + 1, Critical Hit on 19-20.
Large Shield - d8 + 2, Critical Hit on 19-20.
Tower Shield - d10 + 3, Critical Hit on 19-20.
Should any creature suffer more than 30 damage from a shield bash attack, it must make a Fortitude save with a DC equal to 10 + 1/2 the damage dealt, or be stunned for one round. Prerequisite: Strength 15+.
Counterattack: The Fighter knows how to use his opponent's movements to his own advantage. He may not make any attacks during his turn, but during his opponent's turn, he may attack with his normal full attack, and may use each attack to try to "counter" one of his opponent's melee attacks. If an opponent makes a melee attack against him, he may use one of his attacks and roll to hit his opponent; if successful, the opponent suffers full damage from the attack, and is also considered to have missed the attack he was going to make. If he fails, the opponent may attack him as normal. Prerequisite: Dexterity 15+.
Armor Mastery: The Fighter knows which sections of his armor can easily absorb his enemies' blows, and which sections he should keep his enemies from striking. He gains 4 deflection bonus points to his Armor Class; in other words, he gains a +4 deflection bonus to his AC against one opponent, or a +2 deflection bonus against two opponents, and so on. Prerequisite: Dexterity 15+.
Combination Technique: The Fighter is skilled at using various combinations of attacks to more easily strike his opponent. He receives a +4 insight bonus which he may apply to one or more attacks in each round after the first; in other words, he may add a +4 bonus to his second attack, or a +2 bonus to both his second and third attacks, and so on. Prerequisite: Intelligence 15+.
Terrain Mastery: The Fighter is adept at using his surroundings to his benefit in combat. If there are significant objects within 5 feet of the Fighter (posts, trees, signs, etc.), then the Fighter gains partial concealment against any one opponent. This Combat Tactic may be used in conjunction with any other Combat Tactic, which is, as noted above, an exception to the norm. Prerequisite: Intelligence 15+.
Flurry of Strikes: The Fighter is skilled at making many attacks in rapid succession. He may make one additional attack at his full BAB, but suffers a -2 penalty to all his attack rolls this turn. Prerequisite: Dexterity 15+.
(I'll add more Combat Tactics later, when I can think of new ones.)
Weapon Mastery: The Fighter knows how to use certain types of weapons to great effect. At 5th level, he may choose a weapon type from the following list: swords, axes, clubs, spears, rapiers, polearms, bows (includes crossbows), miscellaneous throwing weapons (shurikens, javelins, etc.), or any one weapon of the Fighter's choice. The Fighter receives the listed bonus to his attack and damage rolls when using a weapon of the category chosen.
Leadership: At 12th level, the Fighter gains the Leadership feat, even if he does not have the prerequisites.
Cohort: At 20th level, the Fighter attracts an additional cohort, in the same way as the Leadership feat.

I hope that people find this rewrite simple, useful, and balanced. My idea of a fighter is something like a general whose strength lies in his ability to inspire and lead others, and whose charismatic personality compels others to fight for his cause. I'd be happy to receive any constructive criticism people may have.

-Of Flame And Ash-
Vaalingrade Ashland
07-11-05, 04:02 PM The problem we have here, is the one with the WotC core class. And that is this: Bonus Feats aren't equal to a class ability.

You could give him 10 bonus feats/level and he would still have the same problem because feats aren't as good as class features.

As to the rest:

- Fort OR Reflex would be good, not both.
- Skill points -- its about damn time. No PC class. Let me repeat that -- NO PC CLASS should be running off 2+INT.
- Class skills -- add sense motive and you're there.
Rulebook
07-11-05, 04:19 PM um... ANY 27-28 feats over 20 levels, and you think this is UNDER powered?

usually one of the big drawbacks is fighters can only take fighter feats as thier bonus feats... this guy says "anything is fine"

this is one of the more broken class builds ive seen in a while, barring the obviousy joke ones.

i mean when you can take 5 levels in it, and have more feats than most people get after 20 levels... single classing is enough, but when you multiclass out this one...

broken, simply broken.
Malancthon
07-11-05, 05:27 PM Bonus feats as the only class features= boring. That's what I think Ashland was trying to say. Yes, you can implement a class style with the selection of feats, but what's seems more interesting: Being able to cut down an extra opponent with Cleave feat, or being able to cut down an extra opponent with Whirling Frenzy. Which seems more unique. I'd personally have more fun with a crazy ability like Whirling Frenzy or Rage than having an easier time picking up something I could anyway.

I think that's the main problem with the Fighter class. It lacks distinction. Classes are distinct depending on their class abilities. Heck, a Wizard could pick up Cleave without multiclassing, but a Fighter would have to multi-class to get Rage, Spell-Casting, Domains, etc.

Now, as to this class, yeah, it's overpowered. It doesn't address the problem of class distinction, and tries to compensate by going overboard with feats. Not really a winning set-up. But, hey, if some GM is suckered into letting you play this Fighter, more power to ya. I doubt you will find one, though.
Of Flame And Ash
07-11-05, 06:01 PM Well, to give the class more flavor, I added a few Combat Tactics and Weapon Mastery. The class also has fewer Bonus Feats. I would like more feedback, ways I could improve this rewrite of the Fighter.
aelryinth
07-11-05, 08:14 PM Take out some of the extras and put in the Weapon Spec trees as class abilities, instead of feats.

That gives them class abilities and something they don't have to spend feats on.

And I'd actually go with a decent Will save...fighters are supposed to be notoriously thick headed, and a disciplined fighter moreso...reflex saves are for unarmored/light armor types, and this is not the default fighter.

==Aelryinth
Ayodrinn the Silver
07-11-05, 09:36 PM The class also has fewer Bonus Feats.
Wrong, still 11, I counted.

WAY OVERPOWERED!!!!!!!!!
RadicalTaoist
07-11-05, 09:57 PM Broken, yes, but not overpowered. It just aggravates the problem - instead of making the Fighter less of a dip class, it's become the ultimate dip class. It used to be that the Fighter's effective purpose was to qualify for melee prestige classes. Now this variant can help characters qualify for any prestige class.
Of Flame And Ash
07-11-05, 10:04 PM Hmmm...well, I never really intended this to be overpowered. I...think that even this rewrite of the Fighter can't really compare to the power of, say, a spellcaster. But I'm open to suggestions, as always.

-Of Flame And Ash-
Of Flame And Ash
07-11-05, 10:10 PM Radical Taoist, you are indeed correct. I changed the Bonus Feat ability to exclude non-combat feats, and gave the DM discretion in deciding what's in and what's out. Do you think it's fixed?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Of Flame And Ash 07-11-05, 03:55 PM	The Fighter Hit Die: d10. BAB: Good. Saves: Fortitude and Reflex Good, Will Poor. Skill Points/Level: 4 + Intelligence modifier. Class Skills: As the PHB Fighter, plus Balance (Dex), Listen (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), and Tumble (Dex). Class Abilities: 1. Bonus Feat 2. Bonus Feat 3. Combat Tactic 4. Bonus Feat 5. Weapon Mastery (+1) 6. Combat Tactic 7. Bonus Feat 8. Bonus Feat 9. Combat Tactic 10. Weapon Mastery (+2) 11. Bonus Feat 12. Leadership, Combat Tactic 13. Bonus Feat 14. Bonus Feat 15. Weapon Mastery (+3), Combat Tactic 16. Bonus Feat 17. Bonus Feat 18. Combat Tactic 19. Bonus Feat 20. Cohort, Weapon Mastery (+4) Bonus Feat: At the listed levels, the Fighter gains one feat for which he qualifies. He must choose a feat relating to physical combat; he cannot choose a metamagic feat, for example. The DM may use his discretion in this matter. Combat Tactic: At the listed levels, the Fighter becomes more skilled in using his weapon, shield, armor, and even the terrain to gain an advantage in combat. The Fighter may use one Combat Tactic per round, unless specifically stated otherwise. He may choose from the following list: Parry: The Fighter gains a +2 deflection bonus to his Armor class against one opponent/5 levels. Prerequisite: Dexterity 15+. Shield Bash: The Fighter can bash his enemies' brains in using his shield. His shield offers no natural Armor Class bonus for the duration of the round, although magical enhancements still have their effect. However, the Fighter may make an attack with his shield at his full BAB in addition to his normal attacks. The shield does damage based on its size: Small Shield - d4 + 1, Critical Hit on 19-20. Medium Shield - d6 + 1, Critical Hit on 19-20. Large Shield - d8 + 2, Critical Hit on 19-20. Tower Shield - d10 + 3, Critical Hit on 19-20. Should any creature suffer more than 30 damage from a shield bash attack, it must make a Fortitude save with a DC equal to 10 + 1/2 the damage dealt, or be stunned for one round. Prerequisite: Strength 15+. Counterattack: The Fighter knows how to use his opponent's movements to his own advantage. He may not make any attacks during his turn, but during his opponent's turn, he may attack with his normal full attack, and may use each attack to try to "counter" one of his opponent's melee attacks. If an opponent makes a melee attack against him, he may use one of his attacks and roll to hit his opponent; if successful, the opponent suffers full damage from the attack, and is also considered to have missed the attack he was going to make. If he fails, the opponent may attack him as normal. Prerequisite: Dexterity 15+. Armor Mastery: The Fighter knows which sections of his armor can easily absorb his enemies' blows, and which sections he should keep his enemies from striking. He gains 4 deflection bonus points to his Armor Class; in other words, he gains a +4 deflection bonus to his AC against one opponent, or a +2 deflection bonus against two opponents, and so on. Prerequisite: Dexterity 15+. Combination Technique: The Fighter is skilled at using various combinations of attacks to more easily strike his opponent. He receives a +4 insight bonus which he may apply to one or more attacks in each round after the first; in other words, he may add a +4 bonus to his second attack, or a +2 bonus to both his second and third attacks, and so on. Prerequisite: Intelligence 15+. Terrain Mastery: The Fighter is adept at using his surroundings to his benefit in combat. If there are significant objects within 5 feet of the Fighter (posts, trees, signs, etc.), then the Fighter gains partial concealment against any one opponent. This Combat Tactic may be used in conjunction with any other Combat Tactic, which is, as noted above, an exception to the norm. Prerequisite: Intelligence 15+. Flurry of Strikes: The Fighter is skilled at making many attacks in rapid succession. He may make one additional attack at his full BAB, but suffers a -2 penalty to all his attack rolls this turn. Prerequisite: Dexterity 15+. (I'll add more Combat Tactics later, when I can think of new ones.) Weapon Mastery: The Fighter knows how to use certain types of weapons to great effect. At 5th level, he may choose a weapon type from the following list: swords, axes, clubs, spears, rapiers, polearms, bows (includes crossbows), miscellaneous throwing weapons (shurikens, javelins, etc.), or any one weapon of the Fighter's choice. The Fighter receives the listed bonus to his attack and damage rolls when using a weapon of the category chosen. Leadership: At 12th level, the Fighter gains the Leadership feat, even if he does not have the prerequisites. Cohort: At 20th level, the Fighter attracts an additional cohort, in the same way as the Leadership feat. I hope that people find this rewrite simple, useful, and balanced. My idea of a fighter is something like a general whose strength lies in his ability to inspire and lead others, and whose charismatic personality compels others to fight for his cause. I'd be happy to receive any constructive criticism people may have. -Of Flame And Ash-
Vaalingrade Ashland 07-11-05, 04:02 PM	The problem we have here, is the one with the WotC core class. And that is this: Bonus Feats aren't equal to a class ability. You could give him 10 bonus feats/level and he would still have the same problem because feats aren't as good as class features. As to the rest: - Fort OR Reflex would be good, not both. - Skill points -- its about damn time. No PC class. Let me repeat that -- NO PC CLASS should be running off 2+INT. - Class skills -- add sense motive and you're there.
Rulebook 07-11-05, 04:19 PM	um... ANY 27-28 feats over 20 levels, and you think this is UNDER powered? usually one of the big drawbacks is fighters can only take fighter feats as thier bonus feats... this guy says "anything is fine" this is one of the more broken class builds ive seen in a while, barring the obviousy joke ones. i mean when you can take 5 levels in it, and have more feats than most people get after 20 levels... single classing is enough, but when you multiclass out this one... broken, simply broken.
Malancthon 07-11-05, 05:27 PM	Bonus feats as the only class features= boring. That's what I think Ashland was trying to say. Yes, you can implement a class style with the selection of feats, but what's seems more interesting: Being able to cut down an extra opponent with Cleave feat, or being able to cut down an extra opponent with Whirling Frenzy. Which seems more unique. I'd personally have more fun with a crazy ability like Whirling Frenzy or Rage than having an easier time picking up something I could anyway. I think that's the main problem with the Fighter class. It lacks distinction. Classes are distinct depending on their class abilities. Heck, a Wizard could pick up Cleave without multiclassing, but a Fighter would have to multi-class to get Rage, Spell-Casting, Domains, etc. Now, as to this class, yeah, it's overpowered. It doesn't address the problem of class distinction, and tries to compensate by going overboard with feats. Not really a winning set-up. But, hey, if some GM is suckered into letting you play this Fighter, more power to ya. I doubt you will find one, though.
Of Flame And Ash 07-11-05, 06:01 PM	Well, to give the class more flavor, I added a few Combat Tactics and Weapon Mastery. The class also has fewer Bonus Feats. I would like more feedback, ways I could improve this rewrite of the Fighter.
aelryinth 07-11-05, 08:14 PM	Take out some of the extras and put in the Weapon Spec trees as class abilities, instead of feats. That gives them class abilities and something they don't have to spend feats on. And I'd actually go with a decent Will save...fighters are supposed to be notoriously thick headed, and a disciplined fighter moreso...reflex saves are for unarmored/light armor types, and this is not the default fighter. ==Aelryinth
Ayodrinn the Silver 07-11-05, 09:36 PM	The class also has fewer Bonus Feats. Wrong, still 11, I counted. WAY OVERPOWERED!!!!!!!!!
RadicalTaoist 07-11-05, 09:57 PM	Broken, yes, but not overpowered. It just aggravates the problem - instead of making the Fighter less of a dip class, it's become the ultimate dip class. It used to be that the Fighter's effective purpose was to qualify for melee prestige classes. Now this variant can help characters qualify for any prestige class.
Of Flame And Ash 07-11-05, 10:04 PM	Hmmm...well, I never really intended this to be overpowered. I...think that even this rewrite of the Fighter can't really compare to the power of, say, a spellcaster. But I'm open to suggestions, as always. -Of Flame And Ash-
Of Flame And Ash 07-11-05, 10:10 PM	Radical Taoist, you are indeed correct. I changed the Bonus Feat ability to exclude non-combat feats, and gave the DM discretion in deciding what's in and what's out. Do you think it's fixed?