A Rogue with Delusions of being a Fighter, what to do? [Archive] - Wizards Community

A Rogue with Delusions of being a Fighter, what to do? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Cilador
09-14-06, 03:47 PM I am not writing this to try and bash on people who like rogues I personally have not played one but I do like them when not played wrong. Now I know that is a big statement in a game where you can do almost anything you want, but when the character you play utterly destroys the flow of the game I have to say that is wrong. He will take a level or two in barbarian just for the hit die and to get martial weapons (personally I think that a few levels in fighter would benefit him more for the feats) and then he will use a bastard sword two handed or a greatsword and try to go toe to toe with everything our DM thows our way. This causes him to of course almost die and our cleric has to run around and waste all of her healing spells on him. On top of this he will still take point blank and precise shot (the essicental ranged fighting feats), and so since he is always nearly dead (and does not learn) and whineing about how he is always almost dead it causes the flow of the game to just fall apart.

...Now as to not make this look like a complete thread about complaining about rogues I ask for some examples of how to play a rogue who succeeds at melee.

Thanks
Elemental_Master
09-14-06, 03:55 PM Bind the cleric and let the rogue die. I mean comon! Who runs into close combat with light armor! Convince him to take a better armored class like the Barb so that they still have their B-sword and rage and have D-reduct and Med armor.

So kill him is the basic as the PC is unsalvageble
Artector
09-14-06, 03:58 PM Do you have another meat shield? If so the rogue should be tumbling around the bad guys while the meat shield takes the damage. Then the rogue flanks and stabs, getting the nice sneak attack damage bonus.

Rogues have Use Magic Device too, so in theory he could get a wand of Magic Missle and sling that around when the melee's too thick.
HaikenEdge
09-14-06, 03:58 PM Well, there's a number of ways to handle it.

A) Use the variant rules in Unearthed Arcana, which allows the rogue to drop Sneak Attack for fighter feats.
B) Sneak Attack is the bread and butter of a combat rogue. Ways to force opponents into flat-footedness and getting flanking benefits are most important, so I'd suggest feats like Flick of the Wrist or grabbing knives and going with Invisible Blade.
C) Try gestalt. A Rogue//Fighter might fit his character concept better.
Cilador
09-14-06, 04:06 PM We are now playing a gestalt and he is a ninja/swashbuckler, and he still tries to charge in and still nearly gets killed due to the low ac. He surives a little better because he has more life and because I step in harms way first so he does not get the brunt of inital attack (i am the tank).
HaikenEdge
09-14-06, 04:35 PM Get a weapon with knockback and subdual damage. Whenever he tries to rush past you, smack him backwards with it.

When he asks why, tell him you're hurting him to save him.
madbob14
09-14-06, 04:37 PM This kinda sounds like the way i play. :D Except i put lvls in fighter so i dont go head to head with the mobs. I use a greataxe and use spring attack to move around. Also have an animated shield and combat expertise to help on AC when needed. I feel bad for using a greataxe in my campaign but oh wells. i like the d12!! i think you should just tell him that his AC won't cut it at the higher lvls. I find myslef having to expertise for 5 sometimes just to have enough AC. He should be dancing around maneuvering and not trying to go head to head with mobs.
Hideous Phidias
09-14-06, 04:44 PM Have him try the ranger out, better hit points and ac then rogue and the skills are all there too. Or just talk to him about it teach him the wonders of flanking and working with the group. Show him if he learns to play a class to it strengths then you dont have to worry so much about hits or AC. If that does not work the kill him, not the character the player.
Tony Vargas
09-14-06, 04:51 PM Rogues do have a strong melee offense (SA), and they are supposed to be opportunists and risk-takers. The only thing the guy is really doing wrong is complaining about it when he dies. (well, and running up to enemies, instead of tumbling in 'behind' them when they run up to the frontliner).

I've actually been playing a 1/2Orc Barb1/RogueX for a while, and the little bit of rage power, combined with high movement and SA is pretty cool, and does work in melee. Thus I do spend many fights dashing past the enemy 'front lines' (if any) getting in a flanking SA or messing with whatever they're trying to protect - I also end up fighing defensively, going total defense, or running away at some point too...
madbob14
09-14-06, 04:54 PM Any other rogues here use two handers?? or am i the only one =(
Cilador
09-14-06, 04:55 PM that is all fine and good but he will not try to flank or take defensive actions. he only flanks if the oppertunity presents its self and yet he whines about not getting to use his sneak attack, and he does not want to take combat expertiese to get improved flank
Hideous Phidias
09-14-06, 05:00 PM I had a dwarven scout that like to use a dwarven waraxe. Not a rogue but it is rogue like and the faster movement was nice. Still had to play off the other fighter types.
Artector
09-14-06, 05:12 PM that is all fine and good but he will not try to flank or take defensive actions. he only flanks if the oppertunity presents its self and yet he whines about not getting to use his sneak attack, and he does not want to take combat expertiese to get improved flank

Then let him feel the consequences of his actions. Go fight the other baddie while he gets wailed on, he learn or die eventually. At that point you can choose not resurrect him.

And truth be told, talk to him directly, if he's trying to be front line fighter why is he a rogue? Ask him that.
SquirrelMortis
09-14-06, 05:31 PM Erm, compare this to real life. In the game, the character doesn't say, woops, I have a bad base attack bonus, i shouldn't fight anyone. Or, i only wear light armor. People don't walk around with their stats on the back of their hand. All I have to say to you is that you are attempting to bind your players into the one and only concept that a rouge can be: a wimpy, sneaky little creep with a dagger.
Cilador
09-14-06, 05:43 PM I understand what you are getting at and I agree. I do not want to bind him to a particular style of play but as I stated in my inital post it is the fact that he whines and throws fits that he is the only one who dies or gets hurt the most, and it totally destroys the flow of the game. And I hate to say this because he is one of my best friends, but as for learning from the mistake of dieing he has yet to do that, and we are not new at playing D&D we have played for years.
SquirrelMortis
09-14-06, 05:47 PM I understand what you are getting at and I agree. I do not want to bind him to a particular style of play but as I stated in my inital post it is the fact that he whines and throws fits that he is the only one who dies or gets hurt to most and it totally destroys the flow of the game. And I hate to say this because he is one of my best friends, but as for learning from the mistake of dieing he has yet to do that.

Ah so he's a whiner and he complains that he dies. That's another story.. You know what i do to people who whine?

:fight!:

:ghosted:

Or, you could take the other, less gory option and just tell him that if he wants to stay alive, he should be just a tad bit smarter (plus you wouldn't have to pay for the funeral...)
madbob14
09-14-06, 06:07 PM Just ask him what type of armor he has and what kind of AC. Then give him an example of one of your monsters with +20 to attack. He cant have much ac so just say the only way this monster will miss you if it rolls a 1-2. That is a 10% chance of missing. Then say the monster does on average 30 damage on one attack and it has like 4 attacks. Then say you have to play smarter if you want to live and going toe to toe with this guy is not a smart way to play. Then give him different types of things he could possibly be doing instead of just going toe to toe.
EvilVegan
09-14-06, 09:44 PM Ninja//Swashbuckler won't have a problem with AC. It won't have a problem with HP. If it has tumble and decent dex/wis it should have plenty of AC. He should get weapon finesse and dump strength and definately should NOT get point blank/precise, unless he's throwing his rapier. He should go TWF, TWD, and combat expertise. Stats should be Dex, Con, Int, Wis, Str, Cha in that order. Should always tumble into flanking position.
Cilador
09-14-06, 11:25 PM Ninja//Swashbuckler won't have a problem with AC. It won't have a problem with HP. If it has tumble and decent dex/wis it should have plenty of AC. He should get weapon finesse and dump strength and definately should NOT get point blank/precise, unless he's throwing his rapier. He should go TWF, TWD, and combat expertise. Stats should be Dex, Con, Int, Wis, Str, Cha in that order. Should always tumble into flanking position.

I try to tell him that but he will not listen. He always makes strength his 2nd most important skill and he is wielding a elven courtblade. He did not believe me when I told him flick the wrist would not work with it so he took quick draw to get flick the wrist and only now realized that he can't use it with the court blade. Also he does not like TWF.

Just ask him what type of armor he has and what kind of AC. Then give him an example of one of your monsters with +20 to attack. He cant have much ac so just say the only way this monster will miss you if it rolls a 1-2. That is a 10% chance of missing. Then say the monster does on average 30 damage on one attack and it has like 4 attacks. Then say you have to play smarter if you want to live and going toe to toe with this guy is not a smart way to play. Then give him different types of things he could possibly be doing instead of just going toe to toe.

As stated above I have also done this and again he will not listen to reason. It is not that he does not listen that bugs all of us it is that he will not stop whineing and will not learn from the mistakes that he makes, that is the big issue.
Cilador
09-14-06, 11:33 PM Thank you though for the ideas. If you have more please keep them coming I need all the help I can get.

P.S. Did not mean to offend any on with that last post.
EvilVegan
09-15-06, 01:30 PM Um, there is nothing you can do then and no suggestions we can give you. If you've already told him all this, simply kill his character off or allow him to die until he makes a character that doesn't interfer with the session or until he leaves. If talking to him directly doesn't do the trick, coup de grace works great. If the DM asks if you're serious, say yes. If the DM doesn't allow inter-party fighting, ask if he allows session ruining characters. Then throw your coke on him and do your best to turn the table over. Attempt to lose as many dice as possible at this time, and try to ruin the character sheet of the offending player (urine works great!). After this try to cuss everyone out for every little thing they've ever done wrong to you. Then storm out, and please, don't forget to take all of your personal belongings.

Or you could get over it, create a half-orc wizard with a 8 intelligence and 20 str, weapon proficiency (Greataxe), armor proficiency, and improved familiar feats, if flaws are allowed: take non-combatant and fragile to pick up Skill focus (killing) and combat casting. And don't forget to complain when you take damage and almost die.
Lord_of_Lights
09-15-06, 02:50 PM I never played with this kind of player, but maybe if one of you make a powerfull rogue played correctly hell finaly unterstand how to make to get his guy very efficient. But if youre so sure Ill continue with his berzerker manners, then tell him to take improved toughness which give ya +1life per level, n ask your dm if he can take it more than once (dm teaching i call that but this is the situation for) and have the rogue to get a celestial adamantine armor (I think this dont exist since celestial already need a special material which make it lighter, in that case i think an adamantine shirt should be good since he must get hit lot of times per round)

Another way is that you ask your cleric to get hold monster instead of heal spell and help him upgrate the DC, then lift the ''Beast'' off ground and run away with it under your arm (little freak rogue)! Funny, no?

You make have your guy get transformed in a half dragon during a ressurection problem or the like, witch would make him become a better fighter.
Hope your dm want to solve the problem like you.

The last way is only to tell him that he is the only one to enjoy playing this way( if this true) and ask him if he cool roleplay a little less hack and slash.
If he dont get it, then... get him to see a psy...lol
Hideous Phidias
09-15-06, 04:09 PM Um, there is nothing you can do then and no suggestions we can give you. If you've already told him all this, simply kill his character off or allow him to die until he makes a character that doesn't interfer with the session or until he leaves. If talking to him directly doesn't do the trick, coup de grace works great. If the DM asks if you're serious, say yes. If the DM doesn't allow inter-party fighting, ask if he allows session ruining characters. Then throw your coke on him and do your best to turn the table over. Attempt to lose as many dice as possible at this time, and try to ruin the character sheet of the offending player (urine works great!). After this try to cuss everyone out for every little thing they've ever done wrong to you. Then storm out, and please, don't forget to take all of your personal belongings.

Or you could get over it, create a half-orc wizard with a 8 intelligence and 20 str, weapon proficiency (Greataxe), armor proficiency, and improved familiar feats, if flaws are allowed: take non-combatant and fragile to pick up Skill focus (killing) and combat casting. And don't forget to complain when you take damage and almost die.

Man he he right. Kill him and move on. And the thng about the half ore wizard that for some reason struck me as the funniiest thing I hear all day. I sitting
here in the office wasting time trying not laugh and people are asking what is so fun. I don't want to say yeah my day has be so slow that an offhand comment made on the D&D forum was made me laugh.
AkaKageWarrior
09-15-06, 04:23 PM so the real problem is the player, not his character.

tell him to quit the whining or throw him out of the game.
try to convince him he should play fighter/barbaraian/knight/anything-with-at-least-d10-fullBAB-and-medium-armor...

AKW
Hideous Phidias
09-15-06, 04:35 PM I kow how Cilador feels though. I use to play with this one guy who did the same thing. He made the most worthless characters. His first was a rogue who gave up his sneak attacks for bonus feats. Did not seem to be a bad idea at the time figure he would multiclass with fighter or something. NO, he keep taking skill focus(craft) . But that was not the worse of it, it was a sea campaign right and he never wanted to leave the boat. So when the rest of the party when a shore for the adventure, he would stay behind and craft locks. The best was when he wined that we all got more XP then him. Lucky for the group the DM hate the character so he would notdo much with him, but did not have the heart to tell the guy ot leave.

The next character was a cleric that only had 6 in con. He never rolled well for hit points the character did not make it past forth level. I so wanted to kill the character even had a good in gsme reason, he stool from during one night in a large dungeon, just because he was a cleric of Olidammara. Ever one else would not let me because well he was the only healer besides my bard.

The last character he played with me was a goblin fighter I think. I dont realy remember, The character was for once well thought out but as soon as he spoke for the first time in character the DM just wanted to kill the player. I was the worse voice and roleplaying I have ever seen and My group teands to be more on the kill first as questions later if at all type. So lets ust say that the character di dnot last long thank god,

The point of all that is that sometime in a group you just get a guy whoever one wants to kill. I know once or twice I was that guy. Played a bard who came into a campaignn midbattle with out a weapon. Ended up stealing over 50k in mgic weapons out of party loot for himself. Would have ****** the party off too but by the time they ound out the bard got trapped int he theif catcher out of SONG and Silence
Cilador
09-15-06, 06:50 PM To Phidias thank you for totally understanding what I was getting at with this thread. While I know that there are many ways to play a character This player inparticular is like the guy phidias mentioned no matter what character he makes (he has yet to try anything that uses med or heavy armor, says he does not want to take the loss in speed) everyone gets totally annoyed by it and wants it dead. And he is our good friend otherwise so we can't exclude him (we tried once and he just showed up anyway, and was an even bigger distraction since he was not motavated to move the story along). The worse thing he will do is argue with our DM (my younger bro) because he believes he is better and smarter.

Phidias thanks for the reply
Mixster
09-15-06, 07:19 PM If you want a combat rogue you could take levels in the invisible blade prestige class... And specialize in feinting in combat, even if you just have 3D6 sneak attack, it can REALLy do a lot of damage with either keen or speed kukri's...
demonic_dante
09-16-06, 09:54 PM When playing a rogue with delusions of being a fighter I actually multi-class into fighter and take two weapon fighting. Then all you have to do is tumble past them (flank of course) and slice them up with two short swords.
Stormbrand
09-17-06, 09:01 PM To Phidias thank you for totally understanding what I was getting at with this thread. While I know that there are many ways to play a character This player inparticular is like the guy phidias mentioned no matter what character he makes (he has yet to try anything that uses med or heavy armor, says he does not want to take the loss in speed) everyone gets totally annoyed by it and wants it dead. And he is our good friend otherwise so we can't exclude him (we tried once and he just showed up anyway, and was an even bigger distraction since he was not motavated to move the story along). The worse thing he will do is argue with our DM (my younger bro) because he believes he is better and smarter.

Phidias thanks for the reply

Have your session and don't tell him.

Failing that,

DM - you are changing your character for a fighter,
Whiney player - But I don't wanna-:weep:
DM - you are changing your character for a fighter.

One excuse, when he next dies, have NPC mercs handy and let the rogue play one of them until his character can be raised...which never happens.
ninjarabbit
09-17-06, 09:38 PM Reach weapons: he can have all the fun of being in melee with a lot fewer of the risks
Chrono Nexus
09-17-06, 09:43 PM Use the bluff skill to feint in combat- get spring attack as soon as you can. Put as many ranks in tumble as you can. Put at least 5 ranks in balance (all creatures are flat-footed when they attempt the balance skill unless they have a 5 ranks in it- this means cheap sneak attacks).
A rogue, played intelligently, can be more effective and more devastating than a fighter of equal level in combat.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Cilador 09-14-06, 03:47 PM	I am not writing this to try and bash on people who like rogues I personally have not played one but I do like them when not played wrong. Now I know that is a big statement in a game where you can do almost anything you want, but when the character you play utterly destroys the flow of the game I have to say that is wrong. He will take a level or two in barbarian just for the hit die and to get martial weapons (personally I think that a few levels in fighter would benefit him more for the feats) and then he will use a bastard sword two handed or a greatsword and try to go toe to toe with everything our DM thows our way. This causes him to of course almost die and our cleric has to run around and waste all of her healing spells on him. On top of this he will still take point blank and precise shot (the essicental ranged fighting feats), and so since he is always nearly dead (and does not learn) and whineing about how he is always almost dead it causes the flow of the game to just fall apart. ...Now as to not make this look like a complete thread about complaining about rogues I ask for some examples of how to play a rogue who succeeds at melee. Thanks
Elemental_Master 09-14-06, 03:55 PM	Bind the cleric and let the rogue die. I mean comon! Who runs into close combat with light armor! Convince him to take a better armored class like the Barb so that they still have their B-sword and rage and have D-reduct and Med armor. So kill him is the basic as the PC is unsalvageble
Artector 09-14-06, 03:58 PM	Do you have another meat shield? If so the rogue should be tumbling around the bad guys while the meat shield takes the damage. Then the rogue flanks and stabs, getting the nice sneak attack damage bonus. Rogues have Use Magic Device too, so in theory he could get a wand of Magic Missle and sling that around when the melee's too thick.
HaikenEdge 09-14-06, 03:58 PM	Well, there's a number of ways to handle it. A) Use the variant rules in Unearthed Arcana, which allows the rogue to drop Sneak Attack for fighter feats. B) Sneak Attack is the bread and butter of a combat rogue. Ways to force opponents into flat-footedness and getting flanking benefits are most important, so I'd suggest feats like Flick of the Wrist or grabbing knives and going with Invisible Blade. C) Try gestalt. A Rogue//Fighter might fit his character concept better.
Cilador 09-14-06, 04:06 PM	We are now playing a gestalt and he is a ninja/swashbuckler, and he still tries to charge in and still nearly gets killed due to the low ac. He surives a little better because he has more life and because I step in harms way first so he does not get the brunt of inital attack (i am the tank).
HaikenEdge 09-14-06, 04:35 PM	Get a weapon with knockback and subdual damage. Whenever he tries to rush past you, smack him backwards with it. When he asks why, tell him you're hurting him to save him.
madbob14 09-14-06, 04:37 PM	This kinda sounds like the way i play. :D Except i put lvls in fighter so i dont go head to head with the mobs. I use a greataxe and use spring attack to move around. Also have an animated shield and combat expertise to help on AC when needed. I feel bad for using a greataxe in my campaign but oh wells. i like the d12!! i think you should just tell him that his AC won't cut it at the higher lvls. I find myslef having to expertise for 5 sometimes just to have enough AC. He should be dancing around maneuvering and not trying to go head to head with mobs.
Hideous Phidias 09-14-06, 04:44 PM	Have him try the ranger out, better hit points and ac then rogue and the skills are all there too. Or just talk to him about it teach him the wonders of flanking and working with the group. Show him if he learns to play a class to it strengths then you dont have to worry so much about hits or AC. If that does not work the kill him, not the character the player.
Tony Vargas 09-14-06, 04:51 PM	Rogues do have a strong melee offense (SA), and they are supposed to be opportunists and risk-takers. The only thing the guy is really doing wrong is complaining about it when he dies. (well, and running up to enemies, instead of tumbling in 'behind' them when they run up to the frontliner). I've actually been playing a 1/2Orc Barb1/RogueX for a while, and the little bit of rage power, combined with high movement and SA is pretty cool, and does work in melee. Thus I do spend many fights dashing past the enemy 'front lines' (if any) getting in a flanking SA or messing with whatever they're trying to protect - I also end up fighing defensively, going total defense, or running away at some point too...
madbob14 09-14-06, 04:54 PM	Any other rogues here use two handers?? or am i the only one =(
Cilador 09-14-06, 04:55 PM	that is all fine and good but he will not try to flank or take defensive actions. he only flanks if the oppertunity presents its self and yet he whines about not getting to use his sneak attack, and he does not want to take combat expertiese to get improved flank
Hideous Phidias 09-14-06, 05:00 PM	I had a dwarven scout that like to use a dwarven waraxe. Not a rogue but it is rogue like and the faster movement was nice. Still had to play off the other fighter types.
Artector 09-14-06, 05:12 PM	that is all fine and good but he will not try to flank or take defensive actions. he only flanks if the oppertunity presents its self and yet he whines about not getting to use his sneak attack, and he does not want to take combat expertiese to get improved flank Then let him feel the consequences of his actions. Go fight the other baddie while he gets wailed on, he learn or die eventually. At that point you can choose not resurrect him. And truth be told, talk to him directly, if he's trying to be front line fighter why is he a rogue? Ask him that.
SquirrelMortis 09-14-06, 05:31 PM	Erm, compare this to real life. In the game, the character doesn't say, woops, I have a bad base attack bonus, i shouldn't fight anyone. Or, i only wear light armor. People don't walk around with their stats on the back of their hand. All I have to say to you is that you are attempting to bind your players into the one and only concept that a rouge can be: a wimpy, sneaky little creep with a dagger.
Cilador 09-14-06, 05:43 PM	I understand what you are getting at and I agree. I do not want to bind him to a particular style of play but as I stated in my inital post it is the fact that he whines and throws fits that he is the only one who dies or gets hurt the most, and it totally destroys the flow of the game. And I hate to say this because he is one of my best friends, but as for learning from the mistake of dieing he has yet to do that, and we are not new at playing D&D we have played for years.
SquirrelMortis 09-14-06, 05:47 PM	I understand what you are getting at and I agree. I do not want to bind him to a particular style of play but as I stated in my inital post it is the fact that he whines and throws fits that he is the only one who dies or gets hurt to most and it totally destroys the flow of the game. And I hate to say this because he is one of my best friends, but as for learning from the mistake of dieing he has yet to do that. Ah so he's a whiner and he complains that he dies. That's another story.. You know what i do to people who whine? :fight!: :ghosted: Or, you could take the other, less gory option and just tell him that if he wants to stay alive, he should be just a tad bit smarter (plus you wouldn't have to pay for the funeral...)
madbob14 09-14-06, 06:07 PM	Just ask him what type of armor he has and what kind of AC. Then give him an example of one of your monsters with +20 to attack. He cant have much ac so just say the only way this monster will miss you if it rolls a 1-2. That is a 10% chance of missing. Then say the monster does on average 30 damage on one attack and it has like 4 attacks. Then say you have to play smarter if you want to live and going toe to toe with this guy is not a smart way to play. Then give him different types of things he could possibly be doing instead of just going toe to toe.
EvilVegan 09-14-06, 09:44 PM	Ninja//Swashbuckler won't have a problem with AC. It won't have a problem with HP. If it has tumble and decent dex/wis it should have plenty of AC. He should get weapon finesse and dump strength and definately should NOT get point blank/precise, unless he's throwing his rapier. He should go TWF, TWD, and combat expertise. Stats should be Dex, Con, Int, Wis, Str, Cha in that order. Should always tumble into flanking position.
Cilador 09-14-06, 11:25 PM	Ninja//Swashbuckler won't have a problem with AC. It won't have a problem with HP. If it has tumble and decent dex/wis it should have plenty of AC. He should get weapon finesse and dump strength and definately should NOT get point blank/precise, unless he's throwing his rapier. He should go TWF, TWD, and combat expertise. Stats should be Dex, Con, Int, Wis, Str, Cha in that order. Should always tumble into flanking position. I try to tell him that but he will not listen. He always makes strength his 2nd most important skill and he is wielding a elven courtblade. He did not believe me when I told him flick the wrist would not work with it so he took quick draw to get flick the wrist and only now realized that he can't use it with the court blade. Also he does not like TWF. Just ask him what type of armor he has and what kind of AC. Then give him an example of one of your monsters with +20 to attack. He cant have much ac so just say the only way this monster will miss you if it rolls a 1-2. That is a 10% chance of missing. Then say the monster does on average 30 damage on one attack and it has like 4 attacks. Then say you have to play smarter if you want to live and going toe to toe with this guy is not a smart way to play. Then give him different types of things he could possibly be doing instead of just going toe to toe. As stated above I have also done this and again he will not listen to reason. It is not that he does not listen that bugs all of us it is that he will not stop whineing and will not learn from the mistakes that he makes, that is the big issue.
Cilador 09-14-06, 11:33 PM	Thank you though for the ideas. If you have more please keep them coming I need all the help I can get. P.S. Did not mean to offend any on with that last post.
EvilVegan 09-15-06, 01:30 PM	Um, there is nothing you can do then and no suggestions we can give you. If you've already told him all this, simply kill his character off or allow him to die until he makes a character that doesn't interfer with the session or until he leaves. If talking to him directly doesn't do the trick, coup de grace works great. If the DM asks if you're serious, say yes. If the DM doesn't allow inter-party fighting, ask if he allows session ruining characters. Then throw your coke on him and do your best to turn the table over. Attempt to lose as many dice as possible at this time, and try to ruin the character sheet of the offending player (urine works great!). After this try to cuss everyone out for every little thing they've ever done wrong to you. Then storm out, and please, don't forget to take all of your personal belongings. Or you could get over it, create a half-orc wizard with a 8 intelligence and 20 str, weapon proficiency (Greataxe), armor proficiency, and improved familiar feats, if flaws are allowed: take non-combatant and fragile to pick up Skill focus (killing) and combat casting. And don't forget to complain when you take damage and almost die.
Lord_of_Lights 09-15-06, 02:50 PM	I never played with this kind of player, but maybe if one of you make a powerfull rogue played correctly hell finaly unterstand how to make to get his guy very efficient. But if youre so sure Ill continue with his berzerker manners, then tell him to take improved toughness which give ya +1life per level, n ask your dm if he can take it more than once (dm teaching i call that but this is the situation for) and have the rogue to get a celestial adamantine armor (I think this dont exist since celestial already need a special material which make it lighter, in that case i think an adamantine shirt should be good since he must get hit lot of times per round) Another way is that you ask your cleric to get hold monster instead of heal spell and help him upgrate the DC, then lift the ''Beast'' off ground and run away with it under your arm (little freak rogue)! Funny, no? You make have your guy get transformed in a half dragon during a ressurection problem or the like, witch would make him become a better fighter. Hope your dm want to solve the problem like you. The last way is only to tell him that he is the only one to enjoy playing this way( if this true) and ask him if he cool roleplay a little less hack and slash. If he dont get it, then... get him to see a psy...lol
Hideous Phidias 09-15-06, 04:09 PM	Um, there is nothing you can do then and no suggestions we can give you. If you've already told him all this, simply kill his character off or allow him to die until he makes a character that doesn't interfer with the session or until he leaves. If talking to him directly doesn't do the trick, coup de grace works great. If the DM asks if you're serious, say yes. If the DM doesn't allow inter-party fighting, ask if he allows session ruining characters. Then throw your coke on him and do your best to turn the table over. Attempt to lose as many dice as possible at this time, and try to ruin the character sheet of the offending player (urine works great!). After this try to cuss everyone out for every little thing they've ever done wrong to you. Then storm out, and please, don't forget to take all of your personal belongings. Or you could get over it, create a half-orc wizard with a 8 intelligence and 20 str, weapon proficiency (Greataxe), armor proficiency, and improved familiar feats, if flaws are allowed: take non-combatant and fragile to pick up Skill focus (killing) and combat casting. And don't forget to complain when you take damage and almost die. Man he he right. Kill him and move on. And the thng about the half ore wizard that for some reason struck me as the funniiest thing I hear all day. I sitting here in the office wasting time trying not laugh and people are asking what is so fun. I don't want to say yeah my day has be so slow that an offhand comment made on the D&D forum was made me laugh.
AkaKageWarrior 09-15-06, 04:23 PM	so the real problem is the player, not his character. tell him to quit the whining or throw him out of the game. try to convince him he should play fighter/barbaraian/knight/anything-with-at-least-d10-fullBAB-and-medium-armor... AKW
Hideous Phidias 09-15-06, 04:35 PM	I kow how Cilador feels though. I use to play with this one guy who did the same thing. He made the most worthless characters. His first was a rogue who gave up his sneak attacks for bonus feats. Did not seem to be a bad idea at the time figure he would multiclass with fighter or something. NO, he keep taking skill focus(craft) . But that was not the worse of it, it was a sea campaign right and he never wanted to leave the boat. So when the rest of the party when a shore for the adventure, he would stay behind and craft locks. The best was when he wined that we all got more XP then him. Lucky for the group the DM hate the character so he would notdo much with him, but did not have the heart to tell the guy ot leave. The next character was a cleric that only had 6 in con. He never rolled well for hit points the character did not make it past forth level. I so wanted to kill the character even had a good in gsme reason, he stool from during one night in a large dungeon, just because he was a cleric of Olidammara. Ever one else would not let me because well he was the only healer besides my bard. The last character he played with me was a goblin fighter I think. I dont realy remember, The character was for once well thought out but as soon as he spoke for the first time in character the DM just wanted to kill the player. I was the worse voice and roleplaying I have ever seen and My group teands to be more on the kill first as questions later if at all type. So lets ust say that the character di dnot last long thank god, The point of all that is that sometime in a group you just get a guy whoever one wants to kill. I know once or twice I was that guy. Played a bard who came into a campaignn midbattle with out a weapon. Ended up stealing over 50k in mgic weapons out of party loot for himself. Would have ****** the party off too but by the time they ound out the bard got trapped int he theif catcher out of SONG and Silence
Cilador 09-15-06, 06:50 PM	To Phidias thank you for totally understanding what I was getting at with this thread. While I know that there are many ways to play a character This player inparticular is like the guy phidias mentioned no matter what character he makes (he has yet to try anything that uses med or heavy armor, says he does not want to take the loss in speed) everyone gets totally annoyed by it and wants it dead. And he is our good friend otherwise so we can't exclude him (we tried once and he just showed up anyway, and was an even bigger distraction since he was not motavated to move the story along). The worse thing he will do is argue with our DM (my younger bro) because he believes he is better and smarter. Phidias thanks for the reply
Mixster 09-15-06, 07:19 PM	If you want a combat rogue you could take levels in the invisible blade prestige class... And specialize in feinting in combat, even if you just have 3D6 sneak attack, it can REALLy do a lot of damage with either keen or speed kukri's...
demonic_dante 09-16-06, 09:54 PM	When playing a rogue with delusions of being a fighter I actually multi-class into fighter and take two weapon fighting. Then all you have to do is tumble past them (flank of course) and slice them up with two short swords.
Stormbrand 09-17-06, 09:01 PM	To Phidias thank you for totally understanding what I was getting at with this thread. While I know that there are many ways to play a character This player inparticular is like the guy phidias mentioned no matter what character he makes (he has yet to try anything that uses med or heavy armor, says he does not want to take the loss in speed) everyone gets totally annoyed by it and wants it dead. And he is our good friend otherwise so we can't exclude him (we tried once and he just showed up anyway, and was an even bigger distraction since he was not motavated to move the story along). The worse thing he will do is argue with our DM (my younger bro) because he believes he is better and smarter. Phidias thanks for the reply Have your session and don't tell him. Failing that, DM - you are changing your character for a fighter, Whiney player - But I don't wanna-:weep: DM - you are changing your character for a fighter. One excuse, when he next dies, have NPC mercs handy and let the rogue play one of them until his character can be raised...which never happens.
ninjarabbit 09-17-06, 09:38 PM	Reach weapons: he can have all the fun of being in melee with a lot fewer of the risks
Chrono Nexus 09-17-06, 09:43 PM	Use the bluff skill to feint in combat- get spring attack as soon as you can. Put as many ranks in tumble as you can. Put at least 5 ranks in balance (all creatures are flat-footed when they attempt the balance skill unless they have a 5 ranks in it- this means cheap sneak attacks). A rogue, played intelligently, can be more effective and more devastating than a fighter of equal level in combat.