A slite mistake? [Archive] - Wizards Community

A slite mistake? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Master Druid
02-12-04, 01:44 PM Hi everyone!
i'v got a friend that is playing a cleric, last time he was a fighter with an AC of 19 and unbelivble attacks- in level1!
however when we decided to start playing again he as entioned above... choose a cleric and i - a druid.the rest were a barberian with a strength of 20 (half orc) a fighter a ranger and me.
the idea was we had a bit of everything... the barberian and fighter for melee the ranger for range cleirc for healing and some fighting and me doing magic- it did not work he once again had an incredible AC (21!!!) unbelivble power in melee and striped me off my magic supriorty non was his equal he could take us all single handed!
heres his statistics (i'm regarding the fact he with premsion changed his race from human to gnome...):
We also decided to devide 80 between scors- is that to much?)
STR:16
DEX:16
CON:18
INT:10
WIS:18
CHA:3
HP:23
AC:21
Intiative:7
Fort:7
Ref:3
WILL:5
melee:5
ranged:5
WEAPONS:
heavy mace
shortbow
ARMOR
scale mail
shield wooden large
SKILLS:
concentaton:+12
heal:+4
hide:+11
listen:+6
Feats:
imporoved intiativr
combat casting

i'm tired of getting half the XP, is there anything wrong here?
ThX
Salla
02-12-04, 02:15 PM Oh, where to begin ...

First, it's 'slight'.

Second, the DMG has an excellent point-buy system. 80 is generally not *too* many points, though, on a straight distribution (of course, he decided to twink over his Charisma ... but that means that his Undead Turning abilities stink, so it's not really twinking).

Third, why are you only getting half XP? You should be getting an even share; everybody in the party should get an equal amount of XP, barring DM Special Awards (which shouldn't be THAT much).

Fourth, there's probably not much of a chance he could take all of you at once. You *do* outnumber him three to one and can surround him; your heavy-hitter can ready actions to disrupt his spellcasting, two of you flank for +2 to hit, and proceed to remove entrails, while you (the druid) keep your party healed and maybe summon some Nature's Allies for added damage.

Fifth, yes, the Cleric is generally 'better' at magic than the Druid; however, you get to do fun stuff like Wild Shape later in your career, which can balance the scales.
DrakaraGM
02-12-04, 02:32 PM Okay...

First of all, I cannot figure out what level the character is, based on his skills, aves and attack bonuses etc.

If he is first level, and a gnome, he should only have one feat, not two. To have 2 feats as a gnome would require he be 3rd level.

Also, makimum rank in a class skill is (level+3). I am assuming his Concentration bonus that you list includes combat casting, that would be 4 ranks, +4 for 18 CON, +4 for combat casting feat, which would be possible for 1st level IF that was the one feat the character had.

But for attack bonus, how does he get up to +5?
Small = +1
Level 1 cleric BAB = +0
STR or DEX bonus = +3
Total = +4.

So from that, he would have to be 2nd level to get BAB = +1 and total up to +5...

As for Saves -- Fortitude and Will are both strong saves for a cleric -- but you are showing different values -- is that due to being a gnome or what? Without racial mods, a 1st level cleric would have +2 base saves for F and W saves, +0 for Reflex. Bonuses of +4 for the 18 CON and WIS, only +3 for DEX, would put 1st level saves at F +6, R +3, W +6. At 2nd level, F and W improve, F +7, R +3, W +7. At 3rd level, R improves, F +7,. R +4, W +7. None of these equate to what you have listed though...

Now, as to ability scores -- simply dividing 80 points up among the 6 scores is not the best way to generate characters. It results in the sort of thing you see there -- a 3 in CHA, a 10 in INT so no skill point penalties at least, and the rest divided up into killer physical stats plus WIS. No wonder the cleric is an abomination...but I have to assume that other characters in your group have similar scores, i.e. 1 or 2 very bad scores, 1 or 0 mediocre scores, and the other 4 very high. Such scores make the monsters less of a challenge and reduce roleplaying -- and what I would really like to know is how can a whole bunch of truly unlikeable characters (as pretty much everyone except a sorcerer or a bard is gonna have bad CHA) get along with each other anyways?!?

Point buy is a much more 'reasonable' way to create custom characters -- where all scores start at 8, and then you buy ponits, 1 for 1 up to 14, 2 for 1 for 15 and 16 etc. Then you don't have glaringly bad scores like a 3, and getting multiple 16s and 18s is a lot more difficult, depending on the number of points you have to spend. You might want to try a search on the topic of point buy and read some threads relating to that idea -- I don't use point buy myself but it does have some real sense to it.

Finally, XP -- if the GM only awards XP to those who actually defeat the monsters personally, that is not playing by the rules as designed. ALL characters are presumed to contribute based on their capabilities, so for example a sorcerer that provided Cat's Grace or Bull's Strength spells to the party's warriors should get equal shares with the warriors for those creatures that the warriors roll over in combat.

So yeah, all that said, you could say there is 'something wrong here'. Hard to say just how much is wrong based on the information provided, but I would say the wrongness starts with character creation and continues on from there...
Kaya Kenobi
02-12-04, 02:43 PM 3 Charisma?! I wouldn't allow it.. That would mean you are so brash that you'd make anyone angry at you for no other reason than you looked in their direction the wrong way.
Master Druid
02-13-04, 09:17 AM Thx all, i did forgot to mention his level is 2.
the problem is that all of us did not take less than 8 except him.
i too did not agree with the DM.
We didn't play any undeads yet but im not shur he would have even considered turning theme away if he have a charisma bounus... we still play kinda basic we fight mostly orcs and goblins
BTW
do you know anywher i can find some good adventurs?
q'afuu
02-13-04, 12:01 PM You can try the free mini-modules here (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article1.asp?x=dnd/oa/adventure,3).

As for this character, several errors have been pointed out already. Unless I'm mistaken, that AC is 1 point too high and I'm pretty sure that Hide mod is too high as well (heck, if he's supposed to be level 2 with an Int of 10, the whole skill thing looks screwed up).

That said, unless he's the only one who got 80 points to put in his stats and the rest of you had to make do with a lot less, there's no way he should be overpowering even one of you, let alone all three. At level 2, you simply don't have the class abilities, whatever class you may be, to really get an edge over other characters.

As for the Cha, what Kaya mentioned is a possibility. He could also be as unassuming that people overlook him on a regular basis. He certainly couldn't convince anyone of anything and will always be considered a pushover.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Master Druid 02-12-04, 01:44 PM	Hi everyone! i'v got a friend that is playing a cleric, last time he was a fighter with an AC of 19 and unbelivble attacks- in level1! however when we decided to start playing again he as entioned above... choose a cleric and i - a druid.the rest were a barberian with a strength of 20 (half orc) a fighter a ranger and me. the idea was we had a bit of everything... the barberian and fighter for melee the ranger for range cleirc for healing and some fighting and me doing magic- it did not work he once again had an incredible AC (21!!!) unbelivble power in melee and striped me off my magic supriorty non was his equal he could take us all single handed! heres his statistics (i'm regarding the fact he with premsion changed his race from human to gnome...): We also decided to devide 80 between scors- is that to much?) STR:16 DEX:16 CON:18 INT:10 WIS:18 CHA:3 HP:23 AC:21 Intiative:7 Fort:7 Ref:3 WILL:5 melee:5 ranged:5 WEAPONS: heavy mace shortbow ARMOR scale mail shield wooden large SKILLS: concentaton:+12 heal:+4 hide:+11 listen:+6 Feats: imporoved intiativr combat casting i'm tired of getting half the XP, is there anything wrong here? ThX
Salla 02-12-04, 02:15 PM	Oh, where to begin ... First, it's 'slight'. Second, the DMG has an excellent point-buy system. 80 is generally not too many points, though, on a straight distribution (of course, he decided to twink over his Charisma ... but that means that his Undead Turning abilities stink, so it's not really twinking). Third, why are you only getting half XP? You should be getting an even share; everybody in the party should get an equal amount of XP, barring DM Special Awards (which shouldn't be THAT much). Fourth, there's probably not much of a chance he could take all of you at once. You do outnumber him three to one and can surround him; your heavy-hitter can ready actions to disrupt his spellcasting, two of you flank for +2 to hit, and proceed to remove entrails, while you (the druid) keep your party healed and maybe summon some Nature's Allies for added damage. Fifth, yes, the Cleric is generally 'better' at magic than the Druid; however, you get to do fun stuff like Wild Shape later in your career, which can balance the scales.
DrakaraGM 02-12-04, 02:32 PM	Okay... First of all, I cannot figure out what level the character is, based on his skills, aves and attack bonuses etc. If he is first level, and a gnome, he should only have one feat, not two. To have 2 feats as a gnome would require he be 3rd level. Also, makimum rank in a class skill is (level+3). I am assuming his Concentration bonus that you list includes combat casting, that would be 4 ranks, +4 for 18 CON, +4 for combat casting feat, which would be possible for 1st level IF that was the one feat the character had. But for attack bonus, how does he get up to +5? Small = +1 Level 1 cleric BAB = +0 STR or DEX bonus = +3 Total = +4. So from that, he would have to be 2nd level to get BAB = +1 and total up to +5... As for Saves -- Fortitude and Will are both strong saves for a cleric -- but you are showing different values -- is that due to being a gnome or what? Without racial mods, a 1st level cleric would have +2 base saves for F and W saves, +0 for Reflex. Bonuses of +4 for the 18 CON and WIS, only +3 for DEX, would put 1st level saves at F +6, R +3, W +6. At 2nd level, F and W improve, F +7, R +3, W +7. At 3rd level, R improves, F +7,. R +4, W +7. None of these equate to what you have listed though... Now, as to ability scores -- simply dividing 80 points up among the 6 scores is not the best way to generate characters. It results in the sort of thing you see there -- a 3 in CHA, a 10 in INT so no skill point penalties at least, and the rest divided up into killer physical stats plus WIS. No wonder the cleric is an abomination...but I have to assume that other characters in your group have similar scores, i.e. 1 or 2 very bad scores, 1 or 0 mediocre scores, and the other 4 very high. Such scores make the monsters less of a challenge and reduce roleplaying -- and what I would really like to know is how can a whole bunch of truly unlikeable characters (as pretty much everyone except a sorcerer or a bard is gonna have bad CHA) get along with each other anyways?!? Point buy is a much more 'reasonable' way to create custom characters -- where all scores start at 8, and then you buy ponits, 1 for 1 up to 14, 2 for 1 for 15 and 16 etc. Then you don't have glaringly bad scores like a 3, and getting multiple 16s and 18s is a lot more difficult, depending on the number of points you have to spend. You might want to try a search on the topic of point buy and read some threads relating to that idea -- I don't use point buy myself but it does have some real sense to it. Finally, XP -- if the GM only awards XP to those who actually defeat the monsters personally, that is not playing by the rules as designed. ALL characters are presumed to contribute based on their capabilities, so for example a sorcerer that provided Cat's Grace or Bull's Strength spells to the party's warriors should get equal shares with the warriors for those creatures that the warriors roll over in combat. So yeah, all that said, you could say there is 'something wrong here'. Hard to say just how much is wrong based on the information provided, but I would say the wrongness starts with character creation and continues on from there...
Kaya Kenobi 02-12-04, 02:43 PM	3 Charisma?! I wouldn't allow it.. That would mean you are so brash that you'd make anyone angry at you for no other reason than you looked in their direction the wrong way.
Master Druid 02-13-04, 09:17 AM	Thx all, i did forgot to mention his level is 2. the problem is that all of us did not take less than 8 except him. i too did not agree with the DM. We didn't play any undeads yet but im not shur he would have even considered turning theme away if he have a charisma bounus... we still play kinda basic we fight mostly orcs and goblins BTW do you know anywher i can find some good adventurs?
q'afuu 02-13-04, 12:01 PM	You can try the free mini-modules here (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article1.asp?x=dnd/oa/adventure,3). As for this character, several errors have been pointed out already. Unless I'm mistaken, that AC is 1 point too high and I'm pretty sure that Hide mod is too high as well (heck, if he's supposed to be level 2 with an Int of 10, the whole skill thing looks screwed up). That said, unless he's the only one who got 80 points to put in his stats and the rest of you had to make do with a lot less, there's no way he should be overpowering even one of you, let alone all three. At level 2, you simply don't have the class abilities, whatever class you may be, to really get an edge over other characters. As for the Cha, what Kaya mentioned is a possibility. He could also be as unassuming that people overlook him on a regular basis. He certainly couldn't convince anyone of anything and will always be considered a pushover.