Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Thad_Enouf 01-26-07, 11:09 AM	Would it be possible for a sorcerer to fool others into thinking that the Soc is a Wiz? Could a Soc bluff his/her way into a high-ranking position in a loose-knit wizard's guild? Any thoughts?
etraikov 01-26-07, 12:51 PM	Would it be possible for a sorcerer to fool others into thinking that the Soc is a Wiz? Could a Soc bluff his/her way into a high-ranking position in a loose-knit wizard's guild? Any thoughts? Why wouldnt he ba able to? He casts the same spells as a wizard, and i dont think there is a way to tell the difference between a sorcerer and a wizard casting. Though the other wizards might start to wonder why he is able to cast so many spells per day.
Snicker 01-26-07, 01:39 PM	Would it be possible for a sorcerer to fool others into thinking that the Soc is a Wiz? Could a Soc bluff his/her way into a high-ranking position in a loose-knit wizard's guild? Any thoughts? Points to look out for: Metamagic feats will bloat a sorc's casting time to a full-round action. A sorceror does not necessarily have the spell read magic. There are some feats only available to spontaneous spellcasters. Wizards have a much wider repertoire than sorcerors. Wizards' magic is tied to intelligence; a sorceror whose charisma score is wildly different from their intelligence score will eventually show dictomy in their abilties. As long as you don't show much evidence of these differences (don't use metamagic feats, have read magic available or at least imply you know it, don't use non-wizardly feats, say you have a few "favourite" spells, and stay as smart as you're charming) you shouldn't be found out.
Thubby 01-26-07, 01:47 PM	i think a sorcerer could make it into wizard guild no problem. i dont think he could get to a very high possition though. because in higher rank, your making decisions, and the lack of an uber int would become obvious. not to mention your lack of spellbook might raise questions (even fakes would probably get found out in time)
CantripN 01-26-07, 02:03 PM	I'd actually say the opposite: Sorcerers could very well LEAD the Wizards. They are political animals due to their High Charisma, and usually have more common sense than absent minded Wizards. And Arcane Preparation used to be a good feat.
Tony Vargas 01-26-07, 02:10 PM	Would it be possible for a sorcerer to fool others into thinking that the Soc is a Wiz?Of course, though success depends on who he's fooling and for how long. Fooling someone with little experience and no particular knowledge of the arcane (no K(arcana) or spellcraft) would be as easy as saying "hi, I'm a wizard" instead of "hi, I'm a sorcerer" - then explaining the difference. Could a Soc bluff his/her way into a high-ranking position in a loose-knit wizard's guild?Quite possibly - a "loose-knit" guild probably doesn't have bizzare requirements like peer-reviewing eachothers new spells or anything, so casting the occassional spell, being a competent Spellcrafter, and puting forward the right attitude might well be enough. To really carry it off, a good INT, high K(arcana) and Spellcraft, and, for the suspicious-almost-to-the-point-of-metagaming, some feats like Scribe Scroll and maybe even Arcane Preparation, would be helpful. Pretending to be a specialist in a relatively small school, might help deflect some suspicion, as would claiming to be a big fan of Spell Mastery. Going 'against type' in other ways - being studious, Lawful, and conservative in demeanor, for instance - might also help a bit. Assuming the deception is successful, the Sorc's high CHA will probably help him advance through the ranks in any guild that itsn't a pure Arcane Meritocracy. (In fact, highly-placed wizards are probably often those with high CHA in addition to very high INT, anyway). A sorcerer trying very hard to /seem/ to be a wizard, though, will also be gimping himself a little. Since metamagic can be a giveaway, for instance, he'll need to eschew that in favor of more wizardly feats like Item Creation, which are less useful to a Sorcerer. Since Wizards don't often prep the same spell many times, he'd have to avoid the effective-for-sorcerers tactic of 'spamming' the best spell every round - perhaps he'd even want to keep around a suply of magic-arua'd pearls to use as 'pearls of power' to explain why he keeps casting the same spells so much (in addition to being a specialist obsessed with Spell Mastery, that is).
Krusk 01-26-07, 02:34 PM	AS long as his int isnt below 15 or so, i doubt any wizards would be able to spot him for being dumber. They could probably write it off as absent minded or some other low wisdom trait. Good way to get around that would be item of int +6. If he were to buy a filled spellbook and basically throw it onto his desk in his study, and pretend to read from it every so often he could probably pull it off. He should probably have a lot of ranks in bluff or diplomacy, and a contingent teleport ready.
StevenO 01-26-07, 03:23 PM	It would be possible but many of the difficulties have already been described. 1. Your small number of spells know may betray you if the others believe you should know more spells. 2. You need a spellbook to "study" from which even if real may not actually match up with the spells you know. 3. Skill checks and other INT based checks may eventually reveal you aren't intelligent enough to be a wizard. I think the biggest problem are the lower Int and fewer spells known. If a fellow "wizard" lets you copy one of his spells (do you even know how to copy a spell?) you may not be able to replicate it even if specifically asked to demonstrate it later.
Krusk 01-27-07, 01:06 AM	you could always fake copying his spell. Just conceal where you are doing it. Have him put it in scroll form, and just say "thanks ill go write this down". And heck in reality you could just bind that page in your spellbook manually. And not return the scroll. With enough diplo and bluff you should be fine on that.
Jaxgaret 01-27-07, 03:38 AM	Any thoughts? Take one level of Wizard, and you are gold, my friend. In like Flynn. Of course, this might be too big of a sacrifice... but it's an idea.
CantripN 01-27-07, 03:46 AM	Or you could go with Mage of the Arcane Order. The requirments along with the class abilities make you look like a Wizard.
Morwen 01-27-07, 09:51 AM	If you are in a guild, some of the other Wizards may want to copy spells from your spellbook, which could be troublesome if you don't have one :)
runestar 01-27-07, 09:58 AM	A spellbook can be faked. Just have one made and carry it around for show. As for your limited repertoire of spells, maybe say that you are a specialist spellcaster or something? Or claim that you simply have a penchant for certain spells. With a bluff check, anything is possible.:)
Johnny_Angel 01-27-07, 01:13 PM	Points to look out for: Metamagic feats will bloat a sorc's casting time to a full-round action. A sorceror does not necessarily have the spell read magic. There are some feats only available to spontaneous spellcasters. Wizards have a much wider repertoire than sorcerors. Wizards' magic is tied to intelligence; a sorceror whose charisma score is wildly different from their intelligence score will eventually show dictomy in their abilties. As long as you don't show much evidence of these differences (don't use metamagic feats, have read magic available or at least imply you know it, don't use non-wizardly feats, say you have a few "favourite" spells, and stay as smart as you're charming) you shouldn't be found out. Depending on what books are available for your campaign though, there are plenty of feats and alternative sorceror options which allow you to use metamagic normally. Also, most characters probably don't know what metamagic is; they just realize that some casters have "unique" abilities to change what their spells do and how they function. Even without using metamagic a sorceror could pass as a wizard by just saying his "unique" ability is to cast more spells per day. As for the INT thing, being a sorceror doesn't necessarily mean you have a low INT score. You probably just have a higher CHA score.
Thad_Enouf 01-28-07, 12:32 PM	Thanks for everyone's replies. There wasn't a bad point in the bunch. I wanted to add a few details: I wanted the character to have risen to a high level in a mage's guild (in a mageocracy, no less) due to certain noble actions he had done for or on behalf of the previous guild leader...like an "our little secret" situation. One negative for me on this was that generally, most guilds would have some kind of arcane testing and training curriculum, would they not? Perhaps this sorcerer could have a cohort mage with improved invisibility doing the testing and training for him. I am attracted to this plot point because of the conflict that arises when enemies begin to suspect something is up. As for his skills and abilities (10th lvl Soc), I gave him high ranks in Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather Info, Knowledge: Arcana, and Spellcraft. His CHA is 19 and uses spells such as Touch of Idiocy, Nondetection, and the like to keep his ruse in check. I built the char from the core rules since I didn't have Tome and Blood at the time but do want to check out the things in there because I saw a couple of items that may help him be a pretender. Thanks again, folks.