A Sorcerer variant [Archive] - Wizards Community

A Sorcerer variant [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
windscar18
09-25-05, 09:07 PM After thinking about the sorcerer a little bit, I decided that giving him some abilities would probably serve to make him a little different. 3 reasons why I chose these abilities.

1) Everyone seems to think that a sorcerer summons a spell from his force of will. While that might be true, isn't Wisdom the ability score that shows willpower? Also, in the book, it says that sorcerer magic is intuitive. Isn't intuition, again, Wisdom? Not to say that Sorcerers should spellcast off of Wisdom, but I think Wisdom should have something to do with his spellcasting.
2) Sorcerers should be better at illusions and such than wizards. Wizards are often aloof, on the outside of society. They don't intermingle with the majority of the population. Sorcerers, however, have high Charisma. Therefore, they are better at influincing people than a Wizard. Isn't casting illusions a part of influncing people? This isn't to say that a Sorcerer should entirely specialize in illusions, but there must be some way to make sorcerers be something OTHER than the artillery man.
3) Sorcerers need something that gives at least a SLIGHT motivation to stay in the class as opposed to PrC.

After thinking about these 3 issues, I've come up with a variant that adds these abilities to the Sorcerer.

At level 1, the Sorcerer gains:
Spell Will (Su): A sorcerer can add his Wisdom modifier to his Charisma score for the purpose of determining the amount of bonus spells he recieves.
For example, if Riot has a Charisma score of 16 and a Wisdom score of 14, then he gains bonus spells as though his Charisma score was 18, not 16.

At level 5, the Sorcerer gains:
Forceful Spell (Su): Once per day, a Sorcerer can add half his Wisdom modifier, rounded up, to the Save DC of one spell he casts. He can use this ability an additional time per day at level 10 and every 5 levels beyond that.
Jynx316
09-25-05, 09:33 PM 1) Everyone seems to think that a sorcerer summons a spell from his force of will. While that might be true, isn't Wisdom the ability score that shows willpower? Also, in the book, it says that sorcerer magic is intuitive. Isn't intuition, again, Wisdom? Not to say that Sorcerers should spellcast off of Wisdom, but I think Wisdom should have something to do with his spellcasting.

Actually, its force of will, or, if you'd rather, force of personality. Which falls into Charisma.

2) Sorcerers should be better at illusions and such than wizards. Wizards are often aloof, on the outside of society. They don't intermingle with the majority of the population. Sorcerers, however, have high Charisma. Therefore, they are better at influincing people than a Wizard. Isn't casting illusions a part of influncing people? This isn't to say that a Sorcerer should entirely specialize in illusions, but there must be some way to make sorcerers be something OTHER than the artillery man.

That would actually be more along the lines of Charms or Enchantments. Illusion is deception, Charms/Enchantment is influencing.

3) Sorcerers need something that gives at least a SLIGHT motivation to stay in the class as opposed to PrC.

Ummm... Huh? More spells?

After thinking about these 3 issues, I've come up with a variant that adds these abilities to the Sorcerer.

At level 1, the Sorcerer gains:
Spell Will (Su): A sorcerer can add his Wisdom modifier to his Charisma score for the purpose of determining the amount of bonus spells he recieves.
For example, if Riot has a Charisma score of 16 and a Wisdom score of 14, then he gains bonus spells as though his Charisma score was 18, not 16.

Actually, thats not to bad. However, I wouldn't make that 1st level. 5th or 6th maybe.

At level 5, the Sorcerer gains:
Forceful Spell (Su): Once per day, a Sorcerer can add half his Wisdom modifier, rounded up, to the Save DC of one spell he casts. He can use this ability an additional time per day at level 10 and every 5 levels beyond that.

I dunno about this one. Seems kinda... unimpressive. Maybe if it was his full Wis Mod. Or maybe if it just becomes part of the DC, not a times per day thing...
Nephlite
09-25-05, 09:34 PM 2) Sorcerers should be better at illusions and such than wizards. Wizards are often aloof, on the outside of society. They don't intermingle with the majority of the population. Sorcerers, however, have high Charisma. Therefore, they are better at influincing people than a Wizard. Isn't casting illusions a part of influncing people?

No Illusionns aren't about infuencing people, you mean enchantments like Charm?

At level 1, the Sorcerer gains:
Spell Will (Su): A sorcerer can add his Wisdom modifier to his Charisma score for the purpose of determining the amount of bonus spells he recieves.
For example, if Riot has a Charisma score of 16 and a Wisdom score of 14, then he gains bonus spells as though his Charisma score was 18, not 16.

Actually, your example shows 1/2 bonus from Wisdom. Plus you should say Wisdom bonus (if any) because than Wis 8 guys are penaltized.

At level 5, the Sorcerer gains:
Forceful Spell (Su): Once per day, a Sorcerer can add half his Wisdom modifier, rounded up, to the Save DC of one spell he casts. He can use this ability an additional time per day at level 10 and every 5 levels beyond that.
I like this. But it should be every 5 levels. Twice at level 5, 3 at 10, etc.
windscar18
09-25-05, 09:36 PM Yeah, I meant charm, and yeah I see what you mean. Just that with full Wis modifier, +4 to any type of spell is killer, and that isn't impossible to do with enhancements. +4 to a spell=the difference between life and death, when the difference between a good save and bad save is 6.

Also, with the example for Spell Will, Wis modifier is 2, so 16+2=18.
StevenO
09-25-05, 11:30 PM I congratulate you for not going overboard in your modifications. Ability one isn't overly powerful as sorcerers already have a huge (relatively speaking) number of spells per day. The second ability is stronger (perhaps even a little too powerful) as saving increasing effects are harder to come by.

These changes aren't going to be to big if your characters are made using point buy but if using rolled (or crazy rolled) stats the odds for abuse increase. I'd also watch how this interacts with divine casters as these bonuses would be very valuable to a Mystic Theurge.
windscar18
09-25-05, 11:35 PM Maybe I should say it applies to Sorcerer spells only? That isn't really too restricting.

As for how to deal with the second ability, hence why I had reservations about making it too strong. I can't really stretch it to less times per day as it is though, because then, it would defeat the whole purpose of introducing it: make players want to keep sorcerer instead of PrCing.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
windscar18 09-25-05, 09:07 PM	After thinking about the sorcerer a little bit, I decided that giving him some abilities would probably serve to make him a little different. 3 reasons why I chose these abilities. 1) Everyone seems to think that a sorcerer summons a spell from his force of will. While that might be true, isn't Wisdom the ability score that shows willpower? Also, in the book, it says that sorcerer magic is intuitive. Isn't intuition, again, Wisdom? Not to say that Sorcerers should spellcast off of Wisdom, but I think Wisdom should have something to do with his spellcasting. 2) Sorcerers should be better at illusions and such than wizards. Wizards are often aloof, on the outside of society. They don't intermingle with the majority of the population. Sorcerers, however, have high Charisma. Therefore, they are better at influincing people than a Wizard. Isn't casting illusions a part of influncing people? This isn't to say that a Sorcerer should entirely specialize in illusions, but there must be some way to make sorcerers be something OTHER than the artillery man. 3) Sorcerers need something that gives at least a SLIGHT motivation to stay in the class as opposed to PrC. After thinking about these 3 issues, I've come up with a variant that adds these abilities to the Sorcerer. At level 1, the Sorcerer gains: Spell Will (Su): A sorcerer can add his Wisdom modifier to his Charisma score for the purpose of determining the amount of bonus spells he recieves. For example, if Riot has a Charisma score of 16 and a Wisdom score of 14, then he gains bonus spells as though his Charisma score was 18, not 16. At level 5, the Sorcerer gains: Forceful Spell (Su): Once per day, a Sorcerer can add half his Wisdom modifier, rounded up, to the Save DC of one spell he casts. He can use this ability an additional time per day at level 10 and every 5 levels beyond that.
Jynx316 09-25-05, 09:33 PM	1) Everyone seems to think that a sorcerer summons a spell from his force of will. While that might be true, isn't Wisdom the ability score that shows willpower? Also, in the book, it says that sorcerer magic is intuitive. Isn't intuition, again, Wisdom? Not to say that Sorcerers should spellcast off of Wisdom, but I think Wisdom should have something to do with his spellcasting. Actually, its force of will, or, if you'd rather, force of personality. Which falls into Charisma. 2) Sorcerers should be better at illusions and such than wizards. Wizards are often aloof, on the outside of society. They don't intermingle with the majority of the population. Sorcerers, however, have high Charisma. Therefore, they are better at influincing people than a Wizard. Isn't casting illusions a part of influncing people? This isn't to say that a Sorcerer should entirely specialize in illusions, but there must be some way to make sorcerers be something OTHER than the artillery man. That would actually be more along the lines of Charms or Enchantments. Illusion is deception, Charms/Enchantment is influencing. 3) Sorcerers need something that gives at least a SLIGHT motivation to stay in the class as opposed to PrC. Ummm... Huh? More spells? After thinking about these 3 issues, I've come up with a variant that adds these abilities to the Sorcerer. At level 1, the Sorcerer gains: Spell Will (Su): A sorcerer can add his Wisdom modifier to his Charisma score for the purpose of determining the amount of bonus spells he recieves. For example, if Riot has a Charisma score of 16 and a Wisdom score of 14, then he gains bonus spells as though his Charisma score was 18, not 16. Actually, thats not to bad. However, I wouldn't make that 1st level. 5th or 6th maybe. At level 5, the Sorcerer gains: Forceful Spell (Su): Once per day, a Sorcerer can add half his Wisdom modifier, rounded up, to the Save DC of one spell he casts. He can use this ability an additional time per day at level 10 and every 5 levels beyond that. I dunno about this one. Seems kinda... unimpressive. Maybe if it was his full Wis Mod. Or maybe if it just becomes part of the DC, not a times per day thing...
Nephlite 09-25-05, 09:34 PM	2) Sorcerers should be better at illusions and such than wizards. Wizards are often aloof, on the outside of society. They don't intermingle with the majority of the population. Sorcerers, however, have high Charisma. Therefore, they are better at influincing people than a Wizard. Isn't casting illusions a part of influncing people? No Illusionns aren't about infuencing people, you mean enchantments like Charm? At level 1, the Sorcerer gains: Spell Will (Su): A sorcerer can add his Wisdom modifier to his Charisma score for the purpose of determining the amount of bonus spells he recieves. For example, if Riot has a Charisma score of 16 and a Wisdom score of 14, then he gains bonus spells as though his Charisma score was 18, not 16. Actually, your example shows 1/2 bonus from Wisdom. Plus you should say Wisdom bonus (if any) because than Wis 8 guys are penaltized. At level 5, the Sorcerer gains: Forceful Spell (Su): Once per day, a Sorcerer can add half his Wisdom modifier, rounded up, to the Save DC of one spell he casts. He can use this ability an additional time per day at level 10 and every 5 levels beyond that. I like this. But it should be every 5 levels. Twice at level 5, 3 at 10, etc.
windscar18 09-25-05, 09:36 PM	Yeah, I meant charm, and yeah I see what you mean. Just that with full Wis modifier, +4 to any type of spell is killer, and that isn't impossible to do with enhancements. +4 to a spell=the difference between life and death, when the difference between a good save and bad save is 6. Also, with the example for Spell Will, Wis modifier is 2, so 16+2=18.
StevenO 09-25-05, 11:30 PM	I congratulate you for not going overboard in your modifications. Ability one isn't overly powerful as sorcerers already have a huge (relatively speaking) number of spells per day. The second ability is stronger (perhaps even a little too powerful) as saving increasing effects are harder to come by. These changes aren't going to be to big if your characters are made using point buy but if using rolled (or crazy rolled) stats the odds for abuse increase. I'd also watch how this interacts with divine casters as these bonuses would be very valuable to a Mystic Theurge.
windscar18 09-25-05, 11:35 PM	Maybe I should say it applies to Sorcerer spells only? That isn't really too restricting. As for how to deal with the second ability, hence why I had reservations about making it too strong. I can't really stretch it to less times per day as it is though, because then, it would defeat the whole purpose of introducing it: make players want to keep sorcerer instead of PrCing.