Post/Author/DateTime	Post
KingNeo 01-10-06, 04:10 PM	Hi everyone! Have not been here in a while. Anyway, do you have any ideas on abilities for a base class deticated on the spell telekinesis? All I can think of is damage reduction, able to lift much heavier things (like 5,000lbs by the way is that too much?), flight, and bonuses to attack and AC, as well as some of the abilites presented in Master of the Unseen Hand (what did you expect thats the only class I could use to model this one). Another thing I am having a problem on is Base Attack Bonus and Hit Dice. I was thinking average base attack (like the cleric) and d6 Hit Dice or maybe d8 Hit Dice. I am just building the flavor for the class, so I don't really have a good idea on what it is going to be, but with the abilites that I have been coming up with it will be able to dish out serious amounts of damage and bring out devastion to the unprepared. I am also thinking about stealth capabilites, but if I include stealth I will bring down the damage protential and keep the stealth bonuses to a minimum. Thanks Neo
Neeek 01-10-06, 04:48 PM	I'd steal liberally from the Master of the Unseen Hand PrC and Argent Savant PrC, for starters. I'd go with 3/4 BAB, d8 hit dice, 4 skill points/level. Maybe give them something like level-appropriate tk and force attacks at will(Magic Missle and Mage hand at first etc.)
Feor 01-10-06, 06:56 PM	Psion(Kineticist)
KingNeo 01-10-06, 08:12 PM	Well it would be a little hard to rip off those two prestige classes. The telekinetic capabilites would be a supernatural ability for starters, not a spell-like ability, so I would not be able to add bonuses to use the ability, or really have a need to. Now the flight, fighting, and damaging capabilities of the Master of the Unseen Hand I could use. Also the class does not use any spell-like abilites, it only uses that one ability, which either gets stronger as a character gains levels or gets upgraded through learned powers. Just think Warlock, with its innvocations, since I am using it as a model. But still this is great help with building this class so thanks. Anyway I have several things I would like for you to answer if you have the times, as well as anyone else that is reading this. 1) do you think that 5,000lbs is a good amount at high, I do mean high, levels, say 18th? 2) do you think that 25ft.+5ft./level is too low for a range? 3) got any ideas of how I am going to handle concentration? 4) and last but not least what type of abilities do you think this class? I have no problem creating the mid-high level abilites, thats easy, I just can't think of anything at the moment for abilites at 1st-5th. Thanks Neo
CryoSilver 01-10-06, 09:26 PM	I would go to the Psionics Handbook (3.0, I know has some upgraded TK powers; don't have the XPH) and steal those powers, since they scale to the levels I think you're looking for. Other possible abilities: using HD/level in place of BAB only for purposes of TK. Multiple TKs active at once Concentrate on TK as a swift action TK on amorphous solids/liquids TK to deflect projectiles/attacks
Nephlite 01-10-06, 09:50 PM	Hi everyone! Have not been here in a while. Anyway, do you have any ideas on abilities for a base class deticated on the spell telekinesis? All I can think of is damage reduction, able to lift much heavier things (like 5,000lbs by the way is that too much?), flight, and bonuses to attack and AC, as well as some of the abilites presented in Master of the Unseen Hand (what did you expect thats the only class I could use to model this one). Another thing I am having a problem on is Base Attack Bonus and Hit Dice. I was thinking average base attack (like the cleric) and d6 Hit Dice or maybe d8 Hit Dice. I am just building the flavor for the class, so I don't really have a good idea on what it is going to be, but with the abilites that I have been coming up with it will be able to dish out serious amounts of damage and bring out devastion to the unprepared. I am also thinking about stealth capabilites, but if I include stealth I will bring down the damage protential and keep the stealth bonuses to a minimum. Thanks Neo Why Damage reduction? If it because of force field stuff like in movies: just give them Mage armor and shield as spell-like abilities usable each 1/day per level for level 1 or something like that. Now if your going for invocations remember many warlock invocations are two spells merged together. Maybe ability that creates Mage armor and like bless: so besides +4 force bonus to ac also +1 morale bonus to fear saves and hit. duration 1 hr/level, but since these are at will that won;t matter too often. You should scale any lifting ability. Shouldn't start too high.
KingNeo 01-10-06, 09:54 PM	I would go to the Psionics Handbook (3.0, I know has some upgraded TK powers; don't have the XPH) and steal those powers, since they scale to the levels I think you're looking for. Other possible abilities: using HD/level in place of BAB only for purposes of TK. Multiple TKs active at once Concentrate on TK as a swift action TK on amorphous solids/liquids TK to deflect projectiles/attacks Yeah I have Expanded Psionics and they do have the abilites I am looking for, but only a small handful. And actually they are some what weak. Now for deflection I was thinking of maybe slowing down the forces ready to strike giving you a bonus to AC and a damage reduction. Now since we are talking about damage reduction for much should it be 5/- sounds good or is it too high, since I will allow this character to extend this to a given area? Also and again is the 5000lbs at 18th level ok? I mean there is a lot of abuse this class will be able to dish out. For instance by concentrating on the legion of enemies (say 15; which weigh a total less than 5000lbs) he can send his opponent's flying inflicting 15d6 of damage to each enemy, all in one attack. Yes, its that high! I was actually being conservative on the damage part when I wrote the sentence. Now thats why I am trying to create abilites to get the mass damage drown down a little. Also since the Master of the Unseen Hand included the ability to wield weapons with telekinesis, which of course I am going to include, should I allow them to make a full attack against all opponents within the max (1 per level sounds good; 1 per 2 levels souns better) or is that way too abusive?
Crimson_Concerto 01-10-06, 10:08 PM	OH! OH! PICK ME! PICK ME! I once made a base class that was telekinetically based. It has 3/4 BAB, good Reflex saves, 2+ Skill Points per level, D6 Hit Dice. I basically gave it to the class as a Supernatural ability at level one, but there were level-dependednt limites to how much it could lift, its range, and the speed at which it could move things, all of which could be given an ever so slight boost by having a high WIS mod. For stuff such as saves, it was always considered to be of half the class's level plus the character's WIS mod, so it was basically a WIS based class. I later gave it some telekinetic flight with speed and maneuverability based on a level, and other stuff like Clairvoyance, Dowsing, and some other stereotypical Psychic stuff. I think my favorite thing I gave them was the monk-like AC where they got an insight AC bonus based on WIS to reflect slight precognition. Once per day they could instead transfer some of this bonus (the part that didn't come from WIS) to almost any other D20 roll including but not limited to saves, attack rolls, damage rolls, skill checks, and opposed rolls. T'was pretty cool, but I ended up getting rid of it. Actually, it might still be somewhere in my computer, so if you want me to dig it up, just say so...
KingNeo 01-10-06, 10:10 PM	Why Damage reduction? If it because of force field stuff like in movies: just give them Mage armor and shield as spell-like abilities usable each 1/day per level for level 1 or something like that. Now if your going for invocations remember many warlock invocations are two spells merged together. Maybe ability that creates Mage armor and like bless: so besides +4 force bonus to ac also +1 morale bonus to fear saves and hit. duration 1 hr/level, but since these are at will that won;t matter too often. You should scale any lifting ability. Shouldn't start too high. Well I thought of damage reduction, not because of the movies, I really thought about science. Since this is really a class based on the mastery of motion, on a scientific persective, and objects gain momentium as they they speed up creating more damage then as a object enters a telekinetic field should not the damage diminish a little or a lot? But the force field works too, might make it an upgrade the character can learn. Anyway the math is good for the bonuses but how about the AC bonus starts slow (weak) and gets stronger as time goes by say +1 every 4 levels. On innovations I know they are merged spells, but I had to include it in a way though :D , 1) its a cool idea and 2) it allows a cahracter to alter telekinesis without worrying about how many uses I have left. Now the lifting thing I have solved. The character is able to lift 25lbs. per level. An ability it has amplifies this add a multiplier every 2 levels. So a character could at max lift 25x20x11 which I believe is 5,500 pounds. Yeah it starts weak and low but develops pretty fast.
KingNeo 01-10-06, 10:21 PM	OH! OH! PICK ME! PICK ME! I once made a base class that was telekinetically based. It has 3/4 BAB, good Reflex saves, 2+ Skill Points per level, D6 Hit Dice. I basically gave it to the class as a Supernatural ability at level one, but there were level-dependednt limites to how much it could lift, its range, and the speed at which it could move things, all of which could be given an ever so slight boost by having a high WIS mod. For stuff such as saves, it was always considered to be of half the class's level plus the character's WIS mod, so it was basically a WIS based class. I later gave it some telekinetic flight with speed and maneuverability based on a level, and other stuff like Clairvoyance, Dowsing, and some other stereotypical Psychic stuff. I think my favorite thing I gave them was the monk-like AC where they got an insight AC bonus based on WIS to reflect slight precognition. Once per day they could instead transfer some of this bonus (the part that didn't come from WIS) to almost any other D20 roll including but not limited to saves, attack rolls, damage rolls, skill checks, and opposed rolls. T'was pretty cool, but I ended up getting rid of it. Actually, it might still be somewhere in my computer, so if you want me to dig it up, just say so... Actually what you described in a class sound pretty good, I could add a little of it to my class. Since you brought up saves and gave them good reflex saves, and since I am going to add a little secretcy to the class i will give them good reflex saves too. Also they will have good will saves, I mean it takes a lot of will to control an object telekinetically but even more so to lift like 5000lbs. So yeah please dig it up and thanks. Neo
psionichamster 01-10-06, 10:34 PM	well, if you are dead set on making a whole new class, may i recommend: d6 hd 3/4 bab fort/will good (concentration is Con based, Will is willpower) 2+int skill pts (maybe 4...) gain TK as a spell-like ability, usable at will like the warlocks Eldridtch Blast ability. gain TK-edges to change the standard thrust/maneuver/force versions of the TK don't give the attack form (thrust) any extra boost until at least 5th-7th lvl (perhaps like the duelist/swashbuckler, get Int to damage eventually) TK wielding? sounds like a good 4th lvl ability as far as weight...maybe, like the max-load figures for Str, but calculated on Int? int 18 would allow a heavy load of 200 lbs (iirc), drag/push of 1000 lbs... perhaps that can be multiplied by 1/5 or 1/4 CL?...10th lvl caster would get 2000 lbs, 15th would be 3000, 20th would be 4000 (all assuming the 18 int - 200 lbs figure stated above)...which would scale nicely as stats, needs Int (obviously) and Con (both for concentration and HP) flight somewhere around 9th, improved flight around 12-13th AC could be int-based, at some point (8th?), with increasing bonuses, a la monk shouldn't be wearing armor, or using heavy weapons, so Amor and Wpn prof's like a wizard? or maybe all simple weapons and light armor? so, basically 1: mage hand/far hand/TK thrust: 1d6 2: TK force/maneuver (10lbs or less) thrust:1d6 3: mage hand: 15lbs // thrust: 2d6 4: TK wielder // mage hand: 20 lbs // thrust: 2d6 5: full TK: 25lb/lvl, maneuver uses CL, rather than BAB (Master Unseen Hand ability) // thrust: 3d6 6: ??? 7: TK shield (wield shield w/ TK), // thrust: 4d6 8: TK flight: 30' good maneuv 9: Int to AC, +1 Armor Bonus (TK Armor?) //thrust 5d6 10: full attack w/ TK weapons, TK maneuver, 2x wt limit 11:?? // thrust: 6d6 12:?? 13:?? // thrust: 7d6 14: improved flight: spd 60, perfect maneuv. 15:3x wt limit, +2 Armor bonus // Thrust: 8d6 16:?? 17:?? // Thrust: 9d6 18:?? 19:?? // Thrust: 10d6 20:4x wt limit basically, a warlock w/o blaster, who throws things instead maybe make the atk damage d4's? or d6's assuming there are chunks of rock/metal to chuck around... there are also some tweaks to be used... fling skyward is a cool ability, as is the re-use TK after thrusting ability perhaps modify the "psionic focus" to entail TK-concentration...its expended when you attack or use violent thrust, but not when wielding weapons/shields, flying, or (eventually) doing maneuvers w/ TK perhaps the range can increase, too...from medium to long at 12-15th lvl... namaste' the hamster
Tristan 01-10-06, 10:50 PM	I think you should make it so that his BA is low (1/2) but his effective base attack when using telekinesis is = to his class level. And mastery of the telekinetics doesnt mean super str. I think in a class build specifically for telekenetics should basically start off where they are able to harness their mind power half as strong as their actuall strength. in other words they could throw rocks daggers, even small swords no problem. pick up backpacks(slowly), you know, young padawan stuff. At level 5 they can weild stuff mentally as easily as weilding it phyiscally. after that, every 5 levels their effecive str when using telekinesis would double, and not that two doubles = a triple thing. so at level 20 they could lift 6 times as much as they could physically. oh, and and actually once they reach level 5 (when their mental str "matches" their physical str) you treat their int or wis or whatever as their "str" score when dealing with telekinesis
Always-Late 01-10-06, 11:07 PM	Here's an idea that goes along a different route. Start with the ministuff. Deflecting arrows, 10 ft. ranged punch attacks. Move up to the standard combat maneuvers, such as bull rush and trip. Various abilities such as flying leaps or ranged strength checks comes next. Then, the ability to pick up a shield and use it without hands. Then, the ability to pick up a weapon and use it without hands. Slowly increase the range. You can now use the sword 10 ft. away. Then, 15. Later, you can keep shields on other people (letting them go two-handed or ignore ASF). Move on to just levitating people and watching them flail around. About here, you can move into throwing things at people, like chairs and small tables. Now that we've got all the basics, start improving things. Deflect arrows becomes reflect arrows and deflect rays. Leaping gets upgraded to flying. Shields can become progressively larger and larger until they're large enough for you to gain full cover from them. Tactical maneuvers becomes mass tactical maneuvers. Mass Disarm, Mass Bull Rush. Go from lifting people to throwing people. Your strength checks should become incredible, right about now. Use it to pull columns out of buildings and uproot trees, and then throw those at people. You know what, this makes me want to build a telekinetic class of my own. My sources of inspiration? Mewtwo (from Pokemon, the ultimate telekinetic master) and Ganner Rhysode (Star Wars Extended Universe.) Good stuff.
*Truean* 01-10-06, 11:23 PM	If you could show an example of what you mean.... An example of how the class would compare to say... a wizard...? I think it actually has promiss Later Truean
ssvegeta555 01-11-06, 01:14 AM	At first this sound like it should be a PrC, but with so many options for class abilities I can see it be a base class. I've always liked the idea of TK powers ever since I played Psi Ops for the PS2 (awsome game by-the-way). I'm interested how this turns out. :)
Sephiroth Do'Urden 01-11-06, 01:17 AM	First and foremost: KingNeo, you are very brave to take on a project such as this and I will be back here regurlary to check out your progres as I love Psychokines in all it's forms. Now here is my tip: Check out the Green Ronin web page. The did a core class called The Psychic just a few weeks before Wotc published the Expended Psionic handbook. Check out this link and try to get your hands on that book: http://www.greenronin.com/catalog/grr1306 If you hve more questions I can post the Telekintic skill mechanic here as it is open game content. And while I am ranting: Wotc sould give more credit to Green ronin than they do! The dread necromancer is taken strait from one of GR's bokks but no credit as far as I could see. Nope! :yuck:
Sephiroth Do'Urden 01-11-06, 01:27 AM	At first this sound like it should be a PrC, but with so many options for class abilities I can see it be a base class. I've always liked the idea of TK powers ever since I played Psi Ops for the PS2 (awsome game by-the-way). I'm interested how this turns out. :) Psi ops is great but I was scared to death when I was attacked by those mind beasts! :weep: Still, I would pick Second Sight over Psi Ops anyday. And by the way; The Psychic I mentioned earlier uses strain as a balancing factor. This means that he takes nonleathal damage everytime he uses his pwers (Exept for trifle things like moving your whiskey from one end of the bar disk to another) I hope that helped^^.
Zepherin 01-11-06, 08:10 AM	I don't know if this is anything what you want but the force savant class in my sig is also based around telekinesis and unseen walls and projectiles though he uses force instead of mind to move stuff. Might give you some ideas.
Wrong 01-11-06, 08:46 AM	Perhaps a ranged touch attack (telekinetic blast) 1d6/ 2 levels to help the low levels without fully developped TK. d6 HD poor BAB (but equal to your level with telekinesis) Telekinesis lift 25 pounds/level, without the spell limitation it's 500 pounds, with a Twin spell, you would lift 1000. I think that your 2500 pounds would be ok with a limitation like a full round action that provokes attacks of opportunity to do this. Ability to fly, speed and maneuverability increases with levels. Implosion effect Instant feather fall effect Ability to sense the surrounding telekinetically (surfaces, sounds), even at great distances. Haste and slow effects Too much possibilities…
ssvegeta555 01-11-06, 02:40 PM	Heres a few ideas that might help you. these are only basic low-level abilities. Force Punch: At level 1 the TK mage learns the basic ability to damage foes indirectly with force alone. As a standard action the TK mage can “punch” an enemy. This is a ranged touch attack that deals 1d4 points of force damage. The TK mage can only target creatures that are within 30ft of range. At every other level the damage increases another 1d4 points of force damage to a maximum of 10d4 at level 19. Mage Hand: The TK mage can use the mage hand at will as a spell-like ability. His caster level is equal to his TK mage level. Deflect Arrows: This works like the deflect arrows feat, except you don’t need any hands free to use this ability. At level 6 the TK mage can use this ability even if he is flat-footed.
Zepherin 01-11-06, 04:04 PM	Trying to promote my class, it has most of the abilities that you describe here including flight, telekinesis (it should be able to qualify for MotUH), mage hand arrow deflection, force/telekinesis armor and more. The only problem is that some of the powers manifest a bit more visibly than you might like since invisible flying objects would either hit automatically or at least negate dexterity.
Crimson_Concerto 01-11-06, 05:53 PM	Actually what you described in a class sound pretty good, I could add a little of it to my class. Since you brought up saves and gave them good reflex saves, and since I am going to add a little secretcy to the class i will give them good reflex saves too. Also they will have good will saves, I mean it takes a lot of will to control an object telekinetically but even more so to lift like 5000lbs. So yeah please dig it up and thanks. NeoOkay, I found the old class and put it in a new topic, because: A) I thought it would be too long. B) I don't want to hijack the thread with it. Feel free to use any part of it as inspiration. :)
KingNeo 01-11-06, 07:06 PM	Thank you all for your suggestions and help. I mean I never expected to get this much help. Now I have many of ideas coming in my head on what kind of abilites, just having a hard time creating that one centralized ability, telekinesis. What I was thinking was having this a supernatural ability, mainly because once the class is all made and done it won't have any real resemblence to any type of spell. So when using telekinesis the character could lift 25lbs/level and would have this ability greatly increased as the character gains levels. (Please see below) Grasp of the Heavens 1st x2 6th x3 11th x5 16th x7 2nd x2 7th x4 12th x5 17th x7 3rd x2 8th x4 13th x6 18th x7 4th x3 9th x4 14th x6 19th x8 5th x3 10th x5 15th x6 20th x8 Ok as you gain levels you have an ability called Grasp of the Heavens. Grasp of the Heavens allows you to multiply the amount of total weight that you can manipulate with telekinesis which is shown above. So if you had a character with this class and you where say level 10 then you would be able to lift 1,250lbs. So at 20th level you could lift a total weight of 4,000lbs. Pretty impressive if I may say so myself. Basically I wanted the character to be able to use his abilities with out worrying to much about the maximum weight, since all of their abilites are tied to this one thing. I think it is fair and balanced, but since I am bad at such things I was wondering if it was balanced or not. Yeah I know one detailed thing. I have more ideas coming, but for some reason I have a lot of organizations calling so I keep losing my connection so I am going to post more ideas in seperate posts. Sorry for the multiple posts. P.S. Please tell me how to make a table on the message boards. Yes, I know embarrasing.
KingNeo 01-11-06, 08:03 PM	This is another ability I wanted to include. A force AC bonus, got the idea from someone mentioning mage armor. Basically at 1st level you would get a +1 force bonus to AC then every couple of levels it would get better. (See below) Force Armor Bonus 1st +1 6th +2 11th +3 16th +4 2nd +1 7th +2 12th +3 17th +5 3rd +1 8th +2 13th +4 18th +5 4th +1 9th +3 14th +4 19th +5 5th +2 10th +3 15th +4 20th +5 At later levels I would like to have the character able to expand its Armor Bonus to a given area, protecting his teammates or innocent people. So basically at later levels a character would be able to protect a small area, the same amount equal to his range which for now is 25ft.+5ft/level. The only drawback to this ability is that it reduces the ability by half (rounded down of course). At higher levels the class would be able to project this defense without losing any of its protective capabilities. Then I would create a innovation to have this temporaily turn into damage reduction, of course the differents arts a chacter learns to alter and improve its telekinetic abilites would be called something different than innovation. So is the AC bonus balanced? How about when it is turned into a damage reduction?
psionichamster 01-11-06, 09:22 PM	ac bonus seems ok...although i would probably call it a deflection or armor bonus (probably deflection), so you couldn't stack everything under the sun under it wt limit seems ok...25 lbs/lvl w/ concentration to move things around seems reasonable. i would definitely limit them to wizard type weapons...sling, xbow, staff, dagger, dart, club. all reasonably throwable, and he does't need the weapon abilities lets look at the various telekinesis abilities, as they stand right now Telekinesis spell:Telekinesis Transmutation Level: Sor/Wiz 5 Components: V, S Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level) Target or Targets: See text Duration: Concentration (up to 1 round/ level) or instantaneous; see text Saving Throw: Will negates (object) or None; see text Spell Resistance: Yes (object); see text You move objects or creatures by concentrating on them. Depending on the version selected, the spell can provide a gentle, sustained force, perform a variety of combat maneuvers, or exert a single short, violent thrust. Sustained Force A sustained force moves an object weighing no more than 25 pounds per caster level (maximum 375 pounds at 15th level) up to 20 feet per round. A creature can negate the effect on an object it possesses with a successful Will save or with spell resistance. This version of the spell can last 1 round per caster level, but it ends if you cease concentration. The weight can be moved vertically, horizontally, or in both directions. An object cannot be moved beyond your range. The spell ends if the object is forced beyond the range. If you cease concentration for any reason, the object falls or stops. An object can be telekinetically manipulated as if with one hand. For example, a lever or rope can be pulled, a key can be turned, an object rotated, and so on, if the force required is within the weight limitation. You might even be able to untie simple knots, though delicate activities such as these require Intelligence checks. Combat Maneuver Alternatively, once per round, you can use telekinesis to perform a bull rush, disarm, grapple (including pin), or trip. Resolve these attempts as normal, except that they don’t provoke attacks of opportunity, you use your caster level in place of your base attack bonus (for disarm and grapple), you use your Intelligence modifier (if a wizard) or Charisma modifier (if a sorcerer) in place of your Strength or Dexterity modifier, and a failed attempt doesn’t allow a reactive attempt by the target (such as for disarm or trip). No save is allowed against these attempts, but spell resistance applies normally. This version of the spell can last 1 round per caster level, but it ends if you cease concentration. Violent Thrust Alternatively, the spell energy can be spent in a single round. You can hurl one object or creature per caster level (maximum 15) that are within range and all within 10 feet of each other toward any target within 10 feet per level of all the objects. You can hurl up to a total weight of 25 pounds per caster level (maximum 375 pounds at 15th level). You must succeed on attack rolls (one per creature or object thrown) to hit the target with the items, using your base attack bonus + your Intelligence modifier (if a wizard) or Charisma modifier (if a sorcerer). Weapons cause standard damage (with no Strength bonus; note that arrows or bolts deal damage as daggers of their size when used in this manner). Other objects cause damage ranging from 1 point per 25 pounds (for less dangerous objects) to 1d6 points of damage per 25 pounds (for hard, dense objects). Creatures who fall within the weight capacity of the spell can be hurled, but they are allowed Will saves (and spell resistance) to negate the effect, as are those whose held possessions are targeted by the spell. If a telekinesed creature is hurled against a solid surface, it takes damage as if it had fallen 10 feet (1d6 points). note limitations on the various tricks: 1: force moves something 20'/round, allows will save and SR to negate 2: maneuver is usable 1/rd, uses CL instead of BAB and Int instead of Str/Dex, no save, allows SR 3: both force and maneuver end if you break concentration (more on that shortly) 4: violent thrust. no more that 25lb/lvl, nor 1 object thrown/lvl, all of same kind. creatures can be thrown, but allows for Will save. ends spell. the TK savant should be able to negate or lessen some of these limitations (especially the violent thrust = end o' TK) now, on to concentration, the prime skill for this (or any mental-power based) class. Concentraion Skill: You must make a Concentration check whenever you might potentially be distracted (by taking damage, by harsh weather, and so on) while engaged in some action that requires your full attention. Such actions include casting a spell, concentrating on an active spell, directing a spell, using a spell-like ability, or using a skill that would provoke an attack of opportunity. In general, if an action wouldn’t normally provoke an attack of opportunity, you need not make a Concentration check to avoid being distracted. If the Concentration check succeeds, you may continue with the action as normal. If the check fails, the action automatically fails and is wasted. If you were in the process of casting a spell, the spell is lost. If you were concentrating on an active spell, the spell ends as if you had ceased concentrating on it. If you were directing a spell, the direction fails but the spell remains active. If you were using a spell-like ability, that use of the ability is lost. A skill use also fails, and in some cases a failed skill check may have other ramifications as well. The table below summarizes various types of distractions that cause you to make a Concentration check. If the distraction occurs while you are trying to cast a spell, you must add the level of the spell you are trying to cast to the appropriate Concentration DC. If more than one type of distraction is present, make a check for each one; any failed Concentration check indicates that the task is not completed. Concentration DC1 Distraction If you are trying to cast, concentrate on, or direct a spell when the distraction occurs, add the level of the spell to the indicated DC. Such as during the casting of a spell with a casting time of 1 round or more, or the execution of an activity that takes more than a single full-round action (such as Disable Device). Also, damage stemming from an attack of opportunity or readied attack made in response to the spell being cast (for spells with a casting time of 1 standard action) or the action being taken (for activities requiring no more than a full-round action). Such as from acid arrow. If the spell allows no save, use the save DC it would have if it did allow a save. 10 + damage dealt Damaged during the action.2 10 + half of continuous damage last dealt Taking continuous damage during the action.3 Distracting spell’s save DC Distracted by nondamaging spell.4 10 Vigorous motion (on a moving mount, taking a bouncy wagon ride, in a small boat in rough water, belowdecks in a stormtossed ship). 15 Violent motion (on a galloping horse, taking a very rough wagon ride, in a small boat in rapids, on the deck of a storm-tossed ship). 20 Extraordinarily violent motion (earthquake). 15 Entangled. 20 Grappling or pinned. (You can cast only spells without somatic components for which you have any required material component in hand.) 5 Weather is a high wind carrying blinding rain or sleet. 10 Weather is wind-driven hail, dust, or debris. Distracting spell’s save DC Weather caused by a spell, such as storm of vengeance.4 Action None. Making a Concentration check doesn’t take an action; it is either a free action (when attempted reactively) or part of another action (when attempted actively). Try Again Yes, though a success doesn’t cancel the effect of a previous failure, such as the loss of a spell you were casting or the disruption of a spell you were concentrating on. Special You can use Concentration to cast a spell, use a spell-like ability, or use a skill defensively, so as to avoid attacks of opportunity altogether. This doesn’t apply to other actions that might provoke attacks of opportunity. The DC of the check is 15 (plus the spell’s level, if casting a spell or using a spell-like ability defensively). If the Concentration check succeeds, you may attempt the action normally without provoking any attacks of opportunity. A successful Concentration check still doesn’t allow you to take 10 on another check if you are in a stressful situation; you must make the check normally. If the Concentration check fails, the related action also automatically fails (with any appropriate ramifications), and the action is wasted, just as if your concentration had been disrupted by a distraction. A character with the Combat Casting feat gets a +4 bonus on Concentration checks made to cast a spell or use a spell-like ability while on the defensive or while grappling or pinned. that shoudl give you an idea about what you can hold onto while fighting, horseriding, being wounded, etc... and finally, psionic focus. seems to me that this TK-Savant will be able to pull off some major attack combos...grapple/pin/fling skywards comes to mind...so, perhaps initiating a kind of TK focus, similar to psionic focus, that must be expended to power some of the better attack modes. then, it's either a full-round, or move action (with appropriate feat) and a DC 20 concentration check, to regain TK focus. namaste' the hamster
Sephiroth Do'Urden 01-11-06, 10:00 PM	Ok as you gain levels you have an ability called Grasp of the Heavens. Grasp of the Heavens allows you to multiply the amount of total weight that you can manipulate with telekinesis which is shown above. So if you had a character with this class and you where say level 10 then you would be able to lift 1,250lbs. So at 20th level you could lift a total weight of 4,000lbs. Pretty impressive if I may say so myself. Yup, your work on the meach part is a very good job! But I still think that you should be able to lift some more. The Psychic that I mentioned before can lift about 10,000,000 lbs at level 20. I am not kiding :D .
KingNeo 01-11-06, 10:27 PM	Ok now that thats out the way I can just talk about the kinds of abilities that would like to include and some of things that confuse me. One idea I keep imagining in my head is having the Wielder of the Unseen Hand (I know not very original I am thinking of a better one; I am open to suggestions) focusing the telekinetic energy around his hand, feet, sword, or whatever and having it deal extra damage having it store within the weapon and suddenly releasing. This I want to make into an innvocation (yes I am trying to find a better name than innvocation), a weakest type so that a character could use it to dish out some decent damage before he gains access to his better capabilites. Another idea I have to be able to shape telekinetic energy, creating a sword or small daggers, but it resembles the mind blade ability too much to maybe do that, but I do have an idea to alter it to make these small telekinetic acupuncture needles that he can form and have them fly everywhere hitting enemies and making them take cover. Not dealing a lot of damage, really just flash but good flash. The last idea that I have had is called the Puppet of the Unseen, I have this detailed some what (see below). Puppet of the Unseen (This is an innvocation and a very high level one) -You have been to many battles and seen the actions of war and able to use your telekinetic powers to wield a weapon just as any other warrior, but by learning these lessons you have mastered a clarified form of war telekinesis. When using Full Attack Telekinesis (see below) a Wielder of the Unseen Hand can make a full attack against a number of opponents equal to your levels in this class divided by 4. You can only make one full attack per opponent. (no double or triple teaming.) When using this ability you are completely focused on attacking your opponents, making you unable to use any other innvocations. Full Attack Telekinesis -This is one of the class's special abilities. As you can tell it deals with fighting and is from the Master of the Unseen Hand in Complete Warrior. -You are skilled in combat as a fighter in melee combat. When wielding a weapon telekinitically you can make a full attack, bull rush, disarm, grapple, or trip an enemy. Also I was thinking of having the character use his levels in the class for his base attack when using his abilities, which would give it some good advantages but I don't know if this is a good balance factor, I mean this would give the class base attack equal to that of a fighter or barbarian, while dealing damage equal to a wizard (or something close to it). Something that has been bothering me though for the class is this. Since it is a supernatual ability, making it immune to spell resistance, and because it requires a save, a Will Save, this would be the ultimate bane to any character with weak will saves. The character could essentially lose his half his HP to this ability. But I guess its no less than a warlock's blast or a Wizard's incredible spells. But if you can find a way to give them a better chance please tell me. Also how are we going to handle concentration? Like are we going to let them concentrate as a swift action at level one, or are we going to let them concentrate as a standard action, then as a move action, then as a swift action, and ultimately as a free action? If it is the latter then I have an idea. Concentration At 1st level you must concentrate as a standard action, but can concentrate as a move action at a -4 penalty, and as a swift action at a -8 penalty. At 5th level you can concentrate as a move action at a 0 penalty, a swift action as a -4 penalty, and a -8 penalty as a immediate action. At 10th level you can concentrate as a swift action at a 0 penalty, a immediate action at a -4 penalty, and a free action at a -8 penalty. At 15th level you can concentrate as a immediate action at no penalty, and can concentrate as a free action at a -4 penalty. At 20th level you can concentrate as a free action at no penalty. So what do you think.
KingNeo 01-11-06, 11:47 PM	ac bonus seems ok...although i would probably call it a deflection or armor bonus (probably deflection), so you couldn't stack everything under the sun under it Sounds good to me so the force bonus becomes a deflection bonus, but there is a little irony to this. You are controlling telekinetic force, basically force, and can a bonus to it, a deflection bonus. So if a wizard casts mage armor the effects would stack. But all in all it sounds good to me. Thanks for the help. seems to me that this TK-Savant will be able to pull off some major attack combos...grapple/pin/fling skywards comes to mind...so, perhaps initiating a kind of TK focus, similar to psionic focus, that must be expended to power some of the better attack modes. Yeah the class is going to have some pretty over the top capabilites. I have been thinking of things that deal with motion and telekinesis and adding them to my list of innovocations (still looking for a better name, open to suggestions). Basically think about a character who is able to fight from afar with all your own weapons, break those weapons, your shields, etc., grab and steal your magical items and hurt you with them, grab your fellow fighter and send him 50ft. away from the nearest teammate, gains the ability to fly and allow his firends to fly, and so many other things because of innvocations (help me with a name :weep:its that sad.) then, it's either a full-round, or move action (with appropriate feat) and a DC 20 concentration check, to regain TK focus. Just before your post I made a suggestion for concentration, which does deal with the application of the class's various abilites. Again thanks for the help. Neo
KingNeo 01-12-06, 12:09 AM	Yup, your work on the meach part is a very good job! But I still think that you should be able to lift some more. The Psychic that I mentioned before can lift about 10,000,000 lbs at level 20. I am not kiding :D . The class could lift 10,000,000lbs!? :eek: It just doesn't seem right for a character to lift several hundred fully grown dragons and send them up then down into the ground with a massive concussion. 10,000,000lbs thats a lot of weight, that character could lift the entire Karrnath undead army send them flying 80ft in the air and kill every single one of them in about 6 seconds. Forget the Dragonic Prophecy, that right there would scare Khyber. Yeah as much as I want to make able to do that, I just can't do it. Think about it if I had made a character even close to that level he/she could lift an entire metapolis, concentrate on the city a little while, and send the city smashing into the ground, killing almost all of them. It would greater than any magic, it would have no defense against it. Everyone would die. That would be tril :D . But I have to create balance for it. Thanks for the help though. At least I have a stable weight for the class now.
KingNeo 01-12-06, 02:47 PM	Hello again. I have another ability the class would be able to possess, Telekinetic Flight (I know need to get a better name). As you advance in level you are barely able to fly, but as you gain levels you move with the grace of the best of flying creatures. (See below for details) Telekinetic Flight 1st --------------6th Average 20ft. 2nd --------------7th Average 20ft. 3rd --------------8th Average 20ft. 4th --------------9th Average 30ft. 5th Average 20ft. 10th Good 30ft. 11th Good 30ft. 16th Perfect 40th 12th Good 30ft. 17th Perfect 50th 13th Good 40ft. 18th Perfect 50th 14th Good 40ft. 19th Perfect 50th 15th Perfect 40ft. 20th Perfect 50th Ok as you can see above as a character gains level his fly manuverability improves as does its speed. The Master of the Unseen Hand prestige class allowed a character to fly using telekinesis, so since this is a class based on telekinesis I felt it only appropiate to have this class do the same thing, but since it is a base class after all I decided to give the class a better boost than th prestige class originally made. At 5th level a Wielder of the Unseen Hand can use his telekinetic capabilites to allow him to fly. He gains a fly speed of 20ft with average mobility. A Wielder of the Unseen Hand may not only give himself flight but also his allies and other people. The only catch to this though is that they must stay within a certain area of the Wielder of the Unseen Hand (25ft.+ 5ft. per level in Wielder of the Unseen Hand). So what do you guys think? Neo P.S. Could someone please tell me how to make a table on the message boards.
psionichamster 01-12-06, 04:31 PM	as to the tables: don't know, can't help you as to the WotUH... i would recommend against flight at 1-4th lvl. the earliest a char can fly via arcane magic for free is 5th lvl (wiz) or 6th (sorc) maybe levitation at 3rd or 4th lvl, but with 20 average, you couldn't even go straight up or down 20'. here's another 1-20 shot: Wilder of the Unseen Hand (Working Title) 3/4 BAB, Good fort/will, 2+int skill points (perhaps 4) skills: craft, concentration, psi/spell craft???, know: arcana/psionics???, diplomacy, spot???, listen???. crafting TK constructs (or making large objects w/ scuplting "Hands") would be craft sculpture, possibly pottery. TK wt AC bonus ability 1: 50 +0 Telekinesis, Grasp of the Heavens 2: 100 +1 Force Armor, Featherfall 3: 150 +1 Deflect Arrows, Levitate 4: 300 +1 Rapid Thoughts, Versatile TK 5: 375 +2 Telekinetic Wielder, Dancing Shield 6: 450 +2 Fly 60' good, Improved Disarm (TK) 7: 700 +2 Imp Bull Rush (TK) ??? 8: 800 +2 TK Full Attack 9: 900 +3 10: 1250 +3 Chuck 'Em All! 11: 1375 +3 12: 1500 +3 Large in Mind, Third Hand 13: 1900 +4 Spd Increase +10' 14: 2100 +4 15: 2250 +4 Wall of Force 1/day 16: 2800 +4 17: 2975 +5 (i am at a loss for high lvl abilities, i do 18: 3150 +5 not usually play at this power lvl) 19: 3800 +5 20: 4000 +5 *Telekinesis as the spell, CL = WotUH level *Grasp of the Heavens through supreme concentration, the WotUH is able to exceed the normal amount of telekinetic force. this ability increases in power (increasing the lift multplier) as indicated on table *Force Armor the WotUH wraps her body in a layer of TK force, cushioning blows and deflecting ranged attacks. (Deflection bonus to AC as indicated) *Featherfall as the spell, activates when WotUH falls more than 5’, can be switched off/on as an immediate action. *Deflect Arrows as the monk ability, except the WotUH uses TK force, rather than arms/legs to deflect arrows, and need not have hands empty. She must, however, be aware of the attack. *Levitate as the sor/wiz spell. *Rapid Thoughts At 1st level you must concentrate as a standard action, but can concentrate as a move action at a -4 penalty, and as a swift action at a -8 penalty. At 5th level you can concentrate as a move action at a 0 penalty, a swift action as a -4 penalty, and a -8 penalty as a immediate action. At 10th level you can concentrate as a swift action at a 0 penalty, a immediate action at a -4 penalty, and a free action at a -8 penalty. At 15th level you can concentrate as a immediate action at no penalty, and can concentrate as a free action at a -4 penalty. At 20th level you can concentrate as a free action at no penalty. So what do you think. *Versatile Telekinesis as the Master of Unseen Hand Ability *Telekinetic Wielder as the Master of Unseen Hand Ability *Dancing Shield same as wielder, but w/ shield *Improved Disarm as the feat, but applies to TK maneuver only *Improved Bull Rush as the feat, but applies to TK maneuver only *Telekinetic Full Attack as the Master of Unseen Hand Ability *Chuck ‘Em All Using the full attack action, a WotUH can violently thrust half as many objects as in the previous iterative attack. IE: A 14th lvl WotUH has a BAB of +10/+4, and can throw 14 objects w/ the first attack(at +10), and 7 objects w/ the second (at +4). This ability applies to extra attacks due to rapid shot, haste, or similar effects, with successive attacks allowing for ½ the prior amount. *Large in Life when using the TK maneuver ability, the WotUH counts as 1 size category larger. *Third Hand The WotUH can wield a 2nd weapon, while maintaining hold on a shield. This hand may also be used as a normal hand, holding weapons, drawing supplies, writing, etc. It may also be used to wield a 2-handed weapon while holding a shield, or throwing 3 (or more) thrown weapons. (normal penalties apply for multi-weapon fighting) *Wall of Force as the spell, once per day well, that's enough typing for a little bit. not too sure about all the abilities...armor and wt are just as you had them, w/ +0 AC at 1st lvl. noone should get free armor bonus at 1st lvl. put it back if you really like it, 'snot so big a deal. all around, this char could fling around cars and giants w/ impunity. medium and small creatures would be playthings, or buried under mounds of large, possibly sharp and/or on fire things. carry around a portable hole w/ the captured weapons of your enemies...imagine a medium human unfolding a blanket and raining spear/sword/axe/halberd/chainsaw doom on them. namaste' the hamster
KingNeo 01-12-06, 06:09 PM	as to the tables: don't know, can't help you as to the WotUH... i would recommend against flight at 1-4th lvl. the earliest a char can fly via arcane magic for free is 5th lvl (wiz) or 6th (sorc) Actually the class is unable to fly until 5th level, so no problem there. Now I don't have much experience in flight so maybe I should have them get good mobility first and move straight into perfect, or should I just make them gain average mobility and enter good and perfect mobility faster? maybe levitation at 3rd or 4th lvl, but with 20 average, you couldn't even go straight up or down 20'. If anything though a Wielder of the Unseen Hand would be able to use sustain force to gain lift and fly before 4th or 5th level but it would be sitting duck since it would not have no mobility just floating. 3/4 BAB, Good fort/will, 2+int skill points (perhaps 4) skills: craft, concentration, psi/spell craft???, know: arcana/psionics???, diplomacy, spot???, listen???. Well I have been going around the abilities I want to include and the basic calculations in my head and I want characters who go against this class, especially melee characters, to have a better chance than originally so I will give the class a average base attack, which would apply to most of the class's abilites. Yeah since this is a class tied closely to willpower a good will save is a must. Now the second good save is a little harder for me to tie in. For now I am still thing of the concept of the class as far as flavor goes. Right now I am thinking of some stealthy concepts for the class, not a lot like the rogue or ranger, but just enough for flavor. Then I am tying the class, for now anyway, to a seeker of lost knowledge, trying to find knowledge on the unseen forces that they can manipulate and gain greater control over it. This I beleive would make adaptation for any campaign rather simple and straight forward. The skills I can think of that will be included would be the skills that would allow a character to sense his surroundings, such as listen and spot, because what good would telekinesis be if you always got surprised? Then of course there is concentration, then there is knowledge skills. Thats all I have now, but I will have more soon. Your friend Neo
Germytech 01-12-06, 06:26 PM	Another idea, spawned by a previous poster's mentioning of using telekinesis on amorphous/liquids: Gain a variation of summon monster with the following restrictions: Limited to elementals only, and only when that element is present. Perhaps a progression in the level of summon monster or a gradual increase in the size of the elemental, starting at Tiny and eventually reaching Large or Huge? Just an idea to throw out... The character would not actually summon an elemental, but manipulate an already present element to act in the same manner as an elemental creature...
Sephiroth Do'Urden 01-12-06, 08:32 PM	The class could lift 10,000,000lbs!? It just doesn't seem right for a character to lift several hundred fully grown dragons and send them up then down into the ground with a massive concussion. 10,000,000lbs thats a lot of weight, that character could lift the entire Karrnath undead army send them flying 80ft in the air and kill every single one of them in about 6 seconds. Forget the Dragonic Prophecy, that right there would scare Khyber. Yeah as much as I want to make able to do that, I just can't do it. Think about it if I had made a character even close to that level he/she could lift an entire metapolis, concentrate on the city a little while, and send the city smashing into the ground, killing almost all of them. It would greater than any magic, it would have no defense against it. Everyone would die. That would be tril . But I have to create balance for it. MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!! :rofl: :heehee :bounce: I guess that I didn't let you know enough details. The class is not as Dangerous as it seems at first glance. It is a class that deals with special skills and feats that enhance those skills. They are called Psychic skills and are sorted into categories: Clairsentience, Telepathy, Psychometabolism, Psychoportation and Psychokinesis. The P-Kinesis skills include four TK skills: Telekinesis: Lifting and interacting. Sort of an powerful version of the spell with the same name. Strsin: A lot. See below. TK-Grip: Aka the Goblin chrusher, this brutal skill can be used to squese the life (or unlife) out of your foes. Damage: 1d6 + 1d6 per 5 skill ranks. Strain: 4 TK-Blast: Deals damage from far away and knocks your opponents of their feet. Reqiures a touch attack. Damage is calculated as above. Strain: 4 TK-Sheild: Gives you a deflection bonus to AC. One skill check gives you an exelent protection for one minute. Strain: 2 So whats strain? That is how much nonleathal damage you take when you use this skill. Here is some of the things you can do with Telekinesis. Fun with TK. Lifting: DC Max Mass moved Strain 10 10 lb 1 15 100 lb 2 20 1000 lb 4 25 10,000 lb 8 30 100,000 lb 16 35 1,000,000 lb 32 40 10,000,000 lb 64 (The Psychic uses a d6 for hp and can't lift things as often as he wishes). Note: This skill can't move mountains with this skill as mountains are anchored to the ground. This limits the skills power severly as there is not many objects around that weighs 10,000,000 lbs. Moving multiple objects: As a full-round action you can move multiple objects. use the dc for the heviest object and increase the skill check DC and strain by 2. Flying: DC 30, Strain 8 (or DC 20, Strain 2 with a Feat) gives you a flight speed equal to 5x skill rank. Allways a pleasure to help.
KingNeo 01-12-06, 08:49 PM	Ok I got a little more ideas for the class. When using its telekinetic powers it is able to move, lift, throw, etc. objects and creatures at a speed of 5ft./level. This is used for all telekinetic abilities. Yes, I know this decreases the overall damage of the class by half (10d6 at 20th instead of 20d6 at 20th like normal), but with them being able to carry far more weight, attack far more people, and do this an unlimited amount of times I had to create a balancing factor. Also as another balancing factor the Wielder of the Unseen had has a range of 25+5ft/level. This allows it to be a good overall ranged combatant, but not dominate ranged combat. This I think acts pretty good. One it has its own advantages, and disadvantages, to the spell telekinsis and doesn't outshine the wizard. So what do you think?
klode_me 01-13-06, 10:08 AM	as to the tables: don't know, can't help you as to the WotUH... i would recommend against flight at 1-4th lvl. the earliest a char can fly via arcane magic for free is 5th lvl (wiz) or 6th (sorc) maybe levitation at 3rd or 4th lvl, but with 20 average, you couldn't even go straight up or down 20'. here's another 1-20 shot: Wilder of the Unseen Hand (Working Title) 3/4 BAB, Good fort/will, 2+int skill points (perhaps 4) skills: craft, concentration, psi/spell craft???, know: arcana/psionics???, diplomacy, spot???, listen???. crafting TK constructs (or making large objects w/ scuplting "Hands") would be craft sculpture, possibly pottery. TK wt AC bonus ability 1: 50 +0 Telekinesis, Grasp of the Heavens 2: 100 +1 Force Armor, Featherfall 3: 150 +1 Deflect Arrows, Levitate 4: 300 +1 Rapid Thoughts, Versatile TK 5: 375 +2 Telekinetic Wielder, Dancing Shield 6: 450 +2 Fly 60' good, Improved Disarm (TK) 7: 700 +2 Imp Bull Rush (TK) ??? 8: 800 +2 TK Full Attack 9: 900 +3 10: 1250 +3 Chuck 'Em All! 11: 1375 +3 12: 1500 +3 Large in Mind, Third Hand 13: 1900 +4 Spd Increase +10' 14: 2100 +4 15: 2250 +4 Wall of Force 1/day 16: 2800 +4 17: 2975 +5 (i am at a loss for high lvl abilities, i do 18: 3150 +5 not usually play at this power lvl) 19: 3800 +5 20: 4000 +5 *Telekinesis as the spell, CL = WotUH level *Grasp of the Heavens through supreme concentration, the WotUH is able to exceed the normal amount of telekinetic force. this ability increases in power (increasing the lift multplier) as indicated on table *Force Armor the WotUH wraps her body in a layer of TK force, cushioning blows and deflecting ranged attacks. (Deflection bonus to AC as indicated) *Featherfall as the spell, activates when WotUH falls more than 5’, can be switched off/on as an immediate action. *Deflect Arrows as the monk ability, except the WotUH uses TK force, rather than arms/legs to deflect arrows, and need not have hands empty. She must, however, be aware of the attack. *Levitate as the sor/wiz spell. *Rapid Thoughts At 1st level you must concentrate as a standard action, but can concentrate as a move action at a -4 penalty, and as a swift action at a -8 penalty. At 5th level you can concentrate as a move action at a 0 penalty, a swift action as a -4 penalty, and a -8 penalty as a immediate action. At 10th level you can concentrate as a swift action at a 0 penalty, a immediate action at a -4 penalty, and a free action at a -8 penalty. At 15th level you can concentrate as a immediate action at no penalty, and can concentrate as a free action at a -4 penalty. At 20th level you can concentrate as a free action at no penalty. So what do you think. *Versatile Telekinesis as the Master of Unseen Hand Ability *Telekinetic Wielder as the Master of Unseen Hand Ability *Dancing Shield same as wielder, but w/ shield *Improved Disarm as the feat, but applies to TK maneuver only *Improved Bull Rush as the feat, but applies to TK maneuver only *Telekinetic Full Attack as the Master of Unseen Hand Ability *Chuck ‘Em All Using the full attack action, a WotUH can violently thrust half as many objects as in the previous iterative attack. IE: A 14th lvl WotUH has a BAB of +10/+4, and can throw 14 objects w/ the first attack(at +10), and 7 objects w/ the second (at +4). This ability applies to extra attacks due to rapid shot, haste, or similar effects, with successive attacks allowing for ½ the prior amount. *Large in Life when using the TK maneuver ability, the WotUH counts as 1 size category larger. *Third Hand The WotUH can wield a 2nd weapon, while maintaining hold on a shield. This hand may also be used as a normal hand, holding weapons, drawing supplies, writing, etc. It may also be used to wield a 2-handed weapon while holding a shield, or throwing 3 (or more) thrown weapons. (normal penalties apply for multi-weapon fighting) *Wall of Force as the spell, once per day well, that's enough typing for a little bit. not too sure about all the abilities...armor and wt are just as you had them, w/ +0 AC at 1st lvl. noone should get free armor bonus at 1st lvl. put it back if you really like it, 'snot so big a deal. all around, this char could fling around cars and giants w/ impunity. medium and small creatures would be playthings, or buried under mounds of large, possibly sharp and/or on fire things. carry around a portable hole w/ the captured weapons of your enemies...imagine a medium human unfolding a blanket and raining spear/sword/axe/halberd/chainsaw doom on them. namaste' the hamster Loosing the edges. Wielder of the Unseen hand "Look over there, a 4000 Ib mountain flying against us!" The adept of the unseen hand is a master with Telekinesis. It is the only ability it focuses at.(more to add). level BAB Fort Ref Will Special AC bonus G.o.H. 1st +0 +2 +0 +2 Telekinesis 1/1/2 level/day, Grasp of the Heavens +0 50Ib 2nd +1 +3 +0 +3 Force Armor, Featherfall +1 100Ib 3th +2 +3 +1 +3 Deflect Arrows, Levitate +1 150Ib 4th +3 +4 +1 +4 Rapid Thoughts, Versatile TK +1 300Ib 5th +3 +4 +1 +4 Telekinetic Wielder, Dancing Shield +2 375Ib 6th +4 +5 +2 +5 Fly 60' good, Improved Disarm (TK) +2 450Ib 7th +5 +5 +2 +5 Imp Bull Rush (TK) +2 700Ib 8th +6/+1 +6 +2 +6 TK Full Attack +2 800Ib 9th +6/+1 +6 +3 +6 +3 900Ib 10th +7/+2 +7 +3 +7 Chuck 'Em All! +3 1250Ib 11th +8/+3 +7 +3 +7 +3 1375Ib 12th +9/+4 +8 +4 +8 Large in Mind, Third Hand +3 1500Ib 13th +9/+4 +8 +4 +8 Spd Increase +10' +4 1900Ib 14th +10/+5 +9 +4 +9 +4 2100Ib 15th +11/+6/+1 +9 +5 +9 Wall of Force 1/day +4 2250Ib 16th +12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10 +4 2800Ib 17th +12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10 Power wielder +5 2975Ib 18th +13/+8/+3 +11 +6 +11 +5 3150Ib 19th +14/+9/+4 +11 +6 +11 Multi weapon +5 3800Ib 20th +15/+10/+5 +12 +6 +12 Pure telekinesis wielder +5 4000Ib Weapon and armor profiencies: You gain profiency in all simple weapons and material weapons. You have profiency with all kinds of armor and shields(Except tower shield). Telekinesis:You can cast telekinesis 1/1/2 level/day as a spell-like ability. Save DC:15+cha. modifier. CL = WotUH level. There are no limit on how many Ib they can wield with sustained force. Grasp of the Heavens: through supreme concentration, the WotUH is able to exceed the normal amount of telekinetic force. this ability increases in power (increasing the lift multplier) as indicated on table Force Armor: the WotUH wraps her body in a layer of TK force, cushioning blows and deflecting ranged attacks. (Deflection bonus to AC as indicated) Featherfall: as the spell, activates when WotUH falls more than 5’, can be switched off/on as an immediate action. Deflect Arrows: as the monk ability, except the WotUH uses TK force, rather than arms/legs to deflect arrows, and need not have hands empty. She must, however, be aware of the attack. Levitate: as the sor/wiz spell. Useable at will as Spell-like ability. CL=Class level. Rapid Thoughts: At 1st level you must concentrate as a standard action, but can concentrate as a move action at a -4 penalty, and as a swift action at a -8 penalty. At 5th level you can concentrate as a move action at a 0 penalty, a swift action as a -4 penalty, and a -8 penalty as a immediate action. At 10th level you can concentrate as a swift action at a 0 penalty, a immediate action at a -4 penalty, and a free action at a -8 penalty. At 15th level you can concentrate as a immediate action at no penalty, and can concentrate as a free action at a -4 penalty. At 20th level you can concentrate as a free action at no penalty. So what do you think. Versatile Telekinesis: as the Master of Unseen Hand Ability Telekinetic Wielder: as the Master of Unseen Hand Ability Dancing Shield: same as wielder, but w/ shield Improved Disarm: as the feat, but applies to TK maneuver only Improved Bull Rush: as the feat, but applies to TK maneuver only Telekinetic Full Attack: as the Master of Unseen Hand Ability Chuck ‘Em All: Using the full attack action, a WotUH can violently thrust half as many objects as in the previous iterative attack. IE: A 14th lvl WotUH has a BAB of +10/+4, and can throw 14 objects w/ the first attack(at +10), and 7 objects w/ the second (at +4). This ability applies to extra attacks due to rapid shot, haste, or similar effects, with successive attacks allowing for ½ the prior amount. Large in Life: when using the TK maneuver ability, the WotUH counts as 1 size category larger. Third Hand: The WotUH can wield a 2nd weapon, while maintaining hold on a shield. This hand may also be used as a normal hand, holding weapons, drawing supplies, writing, etc. It may also be used to wield a 2-handed weapon while holding a shield, or throwing 3 (or more) thrown weapons. (normal penalties apply for multi-weapon fighting) Wall of Force: as the spell, once per day Power wielder: You have now learned to apply feats to telekinetic wielded weapons. So now when you telekinetically wield a weapon you are profiencied in you can apply the following feats: Weapon Focus, Greater Weapon focus, Weapon specialization, Greater weapon specialization, improved critical. Multi weapon: When you use your telekinesis ability you can wield up to 4 one-handed weapons, you take penality equal to wielding two weapons. If you have two-weapon fighting, you can use them while wielding 4 weapons. Improved and greater and perfect do also apply. Gaining 1 more attack with each weapon which isn't in your primary hand. Pure telekinesis wielder: You have now mastered telekinesis fully. You can use it at will as a supernatural ability. When you attack telekinetically with Weapons you are profiencied in you add your cha. modifier to damage. You can now negate up to 1+Cha. modifier ranged attacks per round. There are no limit on how many Ib they can wield with sustained. The save DC becomes 10+1/2 class level+cha. modifier. Note: as a SU ability it ignores SR.
psionichamster 01-13-06, 11:08 AM	Klode_me: :cookie: thanks for that clean up! any pointers on how to formulate tables? PM is fine, as is email (im listed) thank you namaste' the hamster
Michale 01-13-06, 03:19 PM	klode_me: There are no limit on how many Ib they can wield with sustained force. are you saying that i could lift as much as i want with sustined force or am i reading that wrong if i am not then the possibilties are endless
KingNeo 01-13-06, 03:39 PM	Ok I have a lot of questions, but I need to create a possible solution to them first, but I will ask this why would we need leviate. I know I asked this a little late, but really if a person can use sustain force why would he/she need it? I mean you can move 5ft./level, of course you get no dex bonus and is considered flat-footed, but you are more capable than simple leviation. And can we please simply make telekinesis a supernatural ability at 1st level. I mean it is the bases for all other abilites, appyling its DC applies to all offensive telekinetic abilities, and it can be done at 1st level anyway. You take one feat (sorry forgot the name) and it becomes a supernatural ability. And the telekinetic ability doesn't really resemble the spell anymore, the range has been reduced greatly, the duration is reduced to just concentration, and violent thrust has had its damage cut in half. It becoming a supernatural ability also keeps it balanced at low levels and keeps it workable at higher ones. So supernatural please. Thank you Neo
KingNeo 01-13-06, 03:43 PM	klode_me: There are no limit on how many Ib they can wield with sustained force. are you saying that i could lift as much as i want with sustined force or am i reading that wrong if i am not then the possibilties are endless Ok they can only lift so much weight, 25lbs per level times grasp of the heavens.
klode_me 01-13-06, 04:25 PM	If i understanded correctly this is what it does: 25Ib per level is with the normal telekinesis spell, but with grasp of the heavens the 25Ib becomes the Grasp of heavens amount; thus at 1st level 50Ib per level, 2nd level 100Ib per level, at 3rd level 150Ib per level Etc. I would remove the limit, but i think it should be added in the 20th level ability. at all other level 15*Grasp of the heavens Ib would be maximum. or would it be overpowered to break through that limit?
klode_me 01-13-06, 04:30 PM	Ok I have a lot of questions, but I need to create a possible solution to them first, but I will ask this why would we need leviate. I know I asked this a little late, but really if a person can use sustain force why would he/she need it? I mean you can move 5ft./level, of course you get no dex bonus and is considered flat-footed, but you are more capable than simple leviation. And can we please simply make telekinesis a supernatural ability at 1st level. I mean it is the bases for all other abilites, appyling its DC applies to all offensive telekinetic abilities, and it can be done at 1st level anyway. You take one feat (sorry forgot the name) and it becomes a supernatural ability. And the telekinetic ability doesn't really resemble the spell anymore, the range has been reduced greatly, the duration is reduced to just concentration, and violent thrust has had its damage cut in half. It becoming a supernatural ability also keeps it balanced at low levels and keeps it workable at higher ones. So supernatural please. Thank you Neo Nope that is not how it works. That would make the class overpowered, even a ghost with La. +5 can only use telekinesis as a supernatural ability every 1d4 rounds. So it starts off as a Spell-like ability.
KingNeo 01-14-06, 12:34 AM	Nope that is not how it works. That would make the class overpowered, even a ghost with La. +5 can only use telekinesis as a supernatural ability every 1d4 rounds. So it starts off as a Spell-like ability. Ok how does it being a supernatural ability make it overpowered? I mean the DC is 10 + half its levels + int modifier, so it will only be as powerful as the most up to date spell. The only thing I can think of that would make it possibly overpowered would it being able to completely negate spell resistance, which is very good, but to make up for this I reduced the range greatly, and weakened its overall damage potential. And anyway its not like a character couldn't open the savage species book, look up the feat that makes it a supernatural ability, and take it at level 1. Even if it was a spell-like ability once the class is created everyone would use their first feat to make it a supernatural abiltiy as soon as it would be inconvienent.
KingNeo 01-14-06, 01:16 AM	If i understanded correctly this is what it does: 25Ib per level is with the normal telekinesis spell, but with grasp of the heavens the 25Ib becomes the Grasp of heavens amount; thus at 1st level 50Ib per level, 2nd level 100Ib per level, at 3rd level 150Ib per level Etc. I would remove the limit, but i think it should be added in the 20th level ability. at all other level 15*Grasp of the heavens Ib would be maximum. or would it be overpowered to break through that limit? The weight limit for the class is this. 25lbs x levels in class x number given by grasp of heaven (see the table in the earlier posts for details). Now I hate to say this but we would have to give the Wielder of the Unseen Hand Grasp of Heaven at level one. Its a telekinetic class, its been designed to have abilities associated with this ability, and have had its abilites reduced and spread out to make it much weaker than it would otherwise be. Also Grasp of the Heavens represents a greater understanding of the telekinetic forces that is part of the world and great concentration so it is as much an ability about learning and conviction than it is for balance and flavor. Think about it this way, if I were to take out Grasp of the Heavens until level 15th how could I explain where all that sudden power was coming from? At level 14th he did not have such ability, but at 15th he was triple the power, that doesn't make sense. This would ruin the class in a way, the Wizard would beat the class in the area in which it has specialized in. The class has a good number of drawbacks, which the Wizard does not, and has nothing to make the player really enjoy the fruit of his bounty until its almost too late. One reason why I made Grasp of the Heavens was so that the player would be able to enjoy the class more and not worry about weight when he was playing and just have fun. Everything is tied in with the weight restriction, it being able to fly, carry equipment, attack, all of it is part of the weight restriction. Thats one of the reasons why I don't want it to be a spell-like ability and a supernatural ability, it simply is not the spell it wasn't designed like that. So Grasp of the Heavens begins at first level and only gets better as time goes by. But don't worry if this causes some form of inbalance then I will find a way to make it balanced, but it will be there at 1st level and get stronger. Also if I got your message wrong please forgive me because I think I might have. Your Friend Neo
klode_me 01-14-06, 04:04 AM	Ok how does it being a supernatural ability make it overpowered? I mean the DC is 10 + half its levels + int modifier, so it will only be as powerful as the most up to date spell. The only thing I can think of that would make it possibly overpowered would it being able to completely negate spell resistance, which is very good, but to make up for this I reduced the range greatly, and weakened its overall damage potential. And anyway its not like a character couldn't open the savage species book, look up the feat that makes it a supernatural ability, and take it at level 1. Even if it was a spell-like ability once the class is created everyone would use their first feat to make it a supernatural abiltiy as soon as it would be inconvienent. May i remind you that the spell-like ability needs to be inherent, this one is gained through class levels and therefore it ain't inherent. So you can't take the feat to make it supernatural. BTW. when it becomes a SU ability, i should add that the DC would become: 10+1/2 class level+Cha. modifier. I think Cha. makes most sense. Cheers klode_me
KingNeo 01-15-06, 05:33 PM	May i remind you that the spell-like ability needs to be inherent, this one is gained through class levels and therefore it ain't inherent. So you can't take the feat to make it supernatural. BTW. when it becomes a SU ability, i should add that the DC would become: 10+1/2 class level+Cha. modifier. I think Cha. makes most sense. Cheers klode_me Well that sucks, oh well. Anyway I tell you what give me three days to make a telekinesis supernatural abiltiy. I will build it from the bottom up, and show parts of it on the message boards so that you and the others can see if its balanced or not. If it does not work then we will use the spell-like ability, but I am really trying to make the class into something other than a class that uses the spell-like ability telekinesis, something memorable, not that it is not know but you know what I mean. So you can check every once in a while to see what this supernatural abiltiy will be, like I said I sould be done in three days. So bare with me. Your Friend Neo P.S. Yeah after thinking it over I think that Cha would be better than Int. The class really is one part sience the other part art, so I guess this is when the art comes out. By the way should I put perform into the list of skills also, it would be good addition put I don't want them to have an overwhelming number of skills (yes I am still creating the skills list). Bu again give me three days to see whats up.
sombrus 01-15-06, 06:25 PM	With a little twisting it's easy to convert the Wilder class into what you're looking for. Level 1. Change energy ray into a force spell, such as force blast, dropping all the other benefits.... it autohits, does 1d6 per level. No save. Level 2. Inertial armor. lasts hours, can be augmented. Good AC bonus. Level 4: Vigor Temporary Hitpoints by the truckload. This is your "damage reduction" v All. Level 6.Touchsight. Essentially like truesight, but also blindsight. Neat power. Level 8. Energy Adaptation... protection from elements, good power. Level 10. Telekinesis, as per the spell. This allows you three abilities with one spell. The spell also ads your modifiers based on your cvaster type. Further, see if you can keep augmentation. Nice ability. (This is the same level as the spell) Level 12. Wall of Force, as per the spell. (This is two levels higher than the spell) Level 14. Power Resistance (Further augments your defenses) Level 16. Matter Manipulation Level 18. Etherealness (or timeless body) Level 20. Timeless body (or etherealness).
KingNeo 01-15-06, 09:51 PM	Ok for now I have at least the basis for the telekinesis supernatural ability, which will be called Art of Telekinesis (yes i am going to come up with a better name). It will be divided into three different catagories: force telekinesis, fluid telekinesis, and war telekinesis (I know I need to come up with better names). As you can expect each catagory deals with a different source of power to which a character may attain power from. Force Telekinesis will be the first lesson in which a characters learns and may gain power from. It has a small foundation with sustained force, but far greater than that. What this basically is gaining the ability of telekinesis and strengthening it. Which basically translates into gaining telekinesis, and being able to use it in a versitle of ways, like creating a force field (something close to a wall of force but a little weaker). Fluid Telekinesis would be the second lesson in which this type character learns and getting stronger as a result. It has a small foundation in Battle Maneuvers, but like Force Telekinesis, it will be far from this. What Fluid Telekinesis deals with is a delicate touch, like being able to use your abilities like you would use a hand. What this basically does is affect a small number of creatures or objects, but in a way equvilant to a character actually picking it up using its hands. War Telekinesis is pretty much self explanitory. Its about learning how to put a pure onslaught on ones foes and destroying anything in a characters way. Imagine a character focusing on the ground beneath him and after a few seconds you see huge cracks appear in the ground and begin to lift into the air. So you could say that the three teachings focus on three things. Force telekinesis focuses on the increasing of the potential on a character. Fluid Telekinesis increases the standard of manipulation a character may use with its abilities. And War Telekinesis is the ability to affect wide areas of things causing potent effects around it. Thanks for bearing with me on this, like I said before I will have this ability done in three days. Then, and if, it meets your satisfation we can move beyond this and create a better portion of the class. Thanks for your help and time, and most of all patience Your Friend Neo
Deviston 01-16-06, 11:27 AM	I love this idea! I support it fully and can't wait until it is finished! I want to play it in the next camp im joining in for this Saturday! And Psi-Ops is frikin awsome, I am in the middle of building a Psi-Op like PRC, give it a look, I'm not done yet, so bear with it. http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=565772
Deviston 01-16-06, 02:20 PM	This is another guys Force class, maybe it will help you out! http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=545071&page=1&pp=20
KingNeo 01-16-06, 05:05 PM	This is another guys Force class, maybe it will help you out! http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=545071&page=1&pp=20 Thanks for the info. I will try and hurry up and finish the class so that you can play it saturday, I just got to concentrate and start thinking and writing, have a hard time doing that sometimes. Your Friend Neo
KingNeo 01-18-06, 11:42 PM	Ok I said that I would have the supernatural ability done today, and I actually have it done, a matter of fact I have a lot of the class done. I was going to go ahead and release it on the message boards, but after hearing about that girl being raped by her adopted father I am a little too upset to type all of it. So I will go ahead and release everything tommorrow and see what things I will have to do to balance the class as best as possible. Well see you later. Your Friend Neo
skibumpyro 01-30-06, 07:05 PM	Are u going to post your class soon? I'm really interested in how it's going to turn out.
klode_me 02-26-06, 05:32 PM	Has this been released yet? Cheers klode_me
Michale 04-02-06, 02:23 PM	no, but hopefully he will soon i have PMed him about it though
Aktariel 04-03-06, 04:23 PM	Take a look at Arcana Evolved for some new Telekinetic Spells...eight levels of TK...including a 10th level version that allows you to lift 1,000 lbs per caster level Great idea, by the way. Love Teeks. And, just because I'd like to see more feedback, consider this a *bump*
Michale 06-27-06, 01:21 PM	Neo has PMed me and he will probably finish the class here.
klode_me 06-27-06, 01:55 PM	Neo has PMed me and he will probably finish the class here. When!? Cheers klode_me
KingNeo 06-28-06, 06:02 AM	Well I see I am not going to get some sleep in a while. Anyway yeah the class will be done pretty soon, I just can't solve the multiple weapon problem and possible innvocations. Ok I have an idea on solving the innvocations idea. I will make it into a tech tree. You will just learn how to focus and use your telekinetic powers in different ways. Anyway I have to ask how in the world did you find this thread? I searched for this thread myself, and I couldn't find it. Anyway just so you know I am currently making a prestige class for the Elans (check the psionics section for the development), and I will be finishing the prestige class first before this class. (Running for cover for incoming rocks) Don't worry the prestige class is almost done, I just got to organize the abilities in the levels, and after that I can get back to this class. Anyway since this class is still in the development stages what would you definately want your telekinetic character to do? Make abilities up so I can add extra touches to it. Also since I took so long, and since you like this class so much I want to add some additional flavor and make a secret organization for it or something of the like. Make suggestions here to. Heres to the telekinetic class Your Friend Neo
Purple Yin 06-28-06, 11:52 AM	Use a warlock. Just make a few homebrewed invocations for the telekinesis. Like a least invocation of unseen hand for the first lvl, and by the time you have dark invocations, you could have a permanent telekinetic manouver or some crazy hybrid of telekinetic abilities.
KingNeo 06-28-06, 03:05 PM	Use a warlock. Just make a few homebrewed invocations for the telekinesis. Like a least invocation of unseen hand for the first lvl, and by the time you have dark invocations, you could have a permanent telekinetic manouver or some crazy hybrid of telekinetic abilities. Well thats already decided, I am just trying to figure out anything special a person may want to do in this class, just so they will be able to do it when I am done. Right now I ave ways for the to disarm opponents at a range, destroy weapons at a range, throw opponents/weapons hundreds of feet, a way for them to use telekinesis as a blade of sorts and destroy enemies in a whrilwind of fury. I have ways for them to protect themselves and there allies, I have ways for them to fly, thats where I am stuck. I want them t be able to do more and I can't think of nothing. Any ideas anyone? Your Friend Neo I stood up all night trying to update this class. I have a lot of stuff down, but I still need the crunchy stuff (stuff that will say wow to characters). Then I will add fluff later since this is a class that deserves such a thing. I have been thinking on organizations that may specifically use Wielders of the Unseen Hand. Right now I am thinking of a special military task force that does such a thing, but if anyone wants something different please post it or pm me. I will have this done.
Michale 09-17-06, 03:02 PM	This deserves a bump and someone to finish it and love and use it. :bump:
KingNeo 09-17-06, 03:06 PM	This deserves a bump and someone to finish it and love and use it. :bump: Actually I believe someone already has, its some where here on the boards. I even gave a thumbs up.
TheCook 09-17-06, 04:18 PM	Post it, so we can give feedback on the near-completed class
KingNeo 09-17-06, 04:22 PM	Post it, so we can give feedback on the near-completed class ....uhhh sorry but I never finished it. It was just too overpowered nad complicated, I do know someone who did a pretty good job with the same idea though. I'll post the link.
klode_me 09-17-06, 06:42 PM	This is the perfect class for this flavor: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=694603 Cheers to LordPendragon! Cheers klode_me
KingNeo 09-17-06, 08:03 PM	This is the perfect class for this flavor: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=694603 Cheers to LordPendragon! Cheers klode_me You must have saved the link because I looked through at least 20 pages to find this class, anyway lets give it to LordPendragon!
Michale 09-17-06, 10:37 PM	Thank you!:)
klode_me 09-18-06, 11:34 AM	You must have saved the link because I looked through at least 20 pages to find this class, anyway lets give it to LordPendragon! Nope... I just checked his sig... But yeah! Cheers once more LordPendragon! Cheers klode_me