Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Of Flame And Ash 07-25-05, 11:51 AM	I know that this Warlock may seem similar to the one in Complete Arcane, but it was not my intention for it to be so. This is supposed to be a class representing sinister, calculating, controlling beings kind of like the sort of warlocks in horror films. They aren't some kind of namby-pamby sorcerer that just uses the same abilities over and over; no, they're much darker and frightening than that. (If you can't tell already, I really hate the Warlock from Complete Arcane, and I think it's incredibly boring and corny). This version of the Warlock (the real Warlock, IMO) is a horrifying being that strikes fear into the hearts of his enemies, plays with their minds as if they were putty, and dominates them with his will. Now that I've gotten that off my chest, enjoy the class! THE WARLOCK Hit Dice: d6. BAB: Medium. Saves: Will Good, Fortitude and Reflex Poor. Skill Points/Level: 4 + Intelligence modifier. Class Skills: As a Wizard, plus Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), and Sense Motive (Wis). Alignment: Any Evil. Class Abilities: 1. Spellcasting, Familiar 2. Eerie 3. Eye of Terror 4. 5. Eerie 6. 7. I Know Your Thoughts! 8. Eerie 9. Slave 10. Waking Nightmare 11. Eerie 12. Silent Screams 13. Bloodcurdling Laughter 14. Eerie 15. 16. In Your Dreams 17. Eerie 18. If Looks Could Kill 19. You Are Mine! 20. From Darkest Night, Eerie, Phantasmagoria Spellcasting: Starting at 1st level, Warlocks gain the ability to cast arcane spells. Like Sorcerers, they cast spells spontaneously and do not need to prepare them ahead of time. The DC of a spell cast by a Warlock is equal to 10 + the spell's level + the Warlock's Wisdom modifier. The Warlock follows the Wizard's Spell Progression and has access to the following spells: 0-Level: Detect magic, detect poison, fire eyes, ghost sound, phantasmal whisperer, preserve organ, read magic, scarecrow, unnerving gaze. 1st-Level: Arcane bolt, bane, burning hands, cause fear, comprehend languages, detect secret doors, chill touch, death grimace, detect undead, disguise self, grave strike, hypnotism, identify, mage armor, magic missile, net of shadows, nether trail, omen of peril, ray of enfeeblement, shocking grasp, stupor, tenser's floating disk, ventriloquism. 2nd-Level: Aganazzar's scorcher, blood wind, blur, boneblast, darkbolt, darkness, death armor, death knell, desecrate, detect thoughts, devil's eye, familiar's sense, familiar's touch, gust of wind, hold person, hypnotic pattern, invisibility, locate object, mark of the outcast, mesmerizing glare, minor image, mirror image, phantasmal assailants, sadism, scare, see invisibility, shatter, shrivelling, spectral hand, tasha's hideous laughter, touch of idiocy, understand object, veil of shadow, wracking touch, wraithstrike. 3rd-level: Affliction, analyze portal, arcane sight, clairaudience/clairvoyance, curse of the putrid husk, darkfire, deeper darkness, dispel magic, displacement, evil eye, fireball, fly, lightning bolt, major image, phantom plow, phantom steed, ray of exhaustion, shatterfloor, skull watch, speak with dead, sticks to snakes, tongues, vampiric touch, vile lance, weather eye. 4th-Level: Arc of lightning, bane weapon, bestow curse, blight, circle of cold, damning darkness, detect scrying, divination, enervation, evard's black tentacles, evil glare, fear, fire shield, fire trap, giant vermin, greater invisibility, hallucinatory terrain, ice storm, lesser geas, liquid pain, locate creature, murderous mist, orb of force, phantasmal killer, scrying, shadow conjuration, shadowblast, thunderlance, wall of evil, wall of fire, wall of pain. 5th-Level: Animate dead, ball lightning, cacophonic burst, cone of cold, contact other plane, cyclonic blast, death throes, dominate person, everlasting terror, feeblemind, ghost storm, greater spectral hand, hold monster, indomitability, insect plague, lesser planar binding, magic jar, mass mage armor, mass trance, mind fog, mirage arcana, night's caress, nightmare, prying eyes, rary's telepathic bond, seeming, shadow evocation, shadow form, shadow hand, shard storm, shroud of flame, slay living, soul shackles, stop heart, symbol of pain, teleport, unhallow, wall of limbs. 6th-Level: Analyze dweomer, animate dread warrior, arrow of bone, aura of terror, cacophonic shield, circle of death, chain lightning, dominate person or ghost, dream casting, entomb, eyebite, fiendform, freezing glance, geas, greater dispel magic, greater scrying, harm, howling chain, mass lesser geas, mislead, otiluke's freezing sphere, planar binding, probe thoughts, rary's interplanar telepathic bond, roaring wall, shadow shield, shadow walk, spectral touch, symbol of fear, symphonic nightmare, tenser's transformation, transfix, true seeing, veil, wave of pain. 7th-level: Control undead, delayed blast fireball, emerald flame fist, eye of the beholder, finger of death, greater arcane sight, greater bestow curse, greater teleport, insanity, mass harm, mass hold person, mass teleport, phase door, plane shift, simulacrum, wall of eyes, whirlwind of teeth, withering palm. 8th-Level: Befoul, blackfire, death pact, demand, discern location, earthquake, flensing, greater familiarity of place, greater prying eyes, greater shadow evocation, horrid wilting, maddening whispers, mass dominate person, maze, mind blank, speak with anything, steal life, symbol of death, trap the soul, whirlwind. 9th-Level: Black blade of disaster, dominate monster, energy drain, eye of power, foresight, gate, greater whirlwind, hellish horde, imprisonment, invoke magic, mass hold monster, meteor swarm, shades, soul bind, stasis clone, teleportation circle, undermaster, wail of the banshee, weird. Familiar (ex): At 1st level, Warlocks gain the service of a faithful familiar. This ability works exactly the same as the Wizard ability of the same name. Eerie (ex): Starting at 2nd level, the Warlock gains unnerving attributes that cause normal creatures to shun him. At the listed levels, the Warlock may gain one of the following: Sinister: The Warlock's whole countenance becomes frightening. He gains a +3 bonus to all his Intimidate checks, and a +1 bonus to the DCs of all fear-based spells and abilities. Claws: The Warlock grows a hideous pair of sharp claws. The Warlock is always considered armed even when not holding a weapon, and his claws deal 1d4 points of slashing damage. Horns: The Warlock grows a pair of curved horns that look like those of a ram. He is considered armed when attacking with the horns, and they deal 1d4 points of bludgeoning damage. Twisted: The Warlock's face becomes deformed and horrifying to look at. All creatures with an Intelligence score of 3 or better wishing to attack the Warlock must pass a Concentration check with a DC equal to 10 + half the Warlock's class level + his Charisma modifier or suffer a -2 penalty to their attacks against him for the duration of the encounter. Demonskin: The Warlock's skin becomes ruddy and tough, like that of a demon. He gains fire resistance equal to 5 + half his class level (that improves with additional levels). Third Eye: The Warlock grows a fully functional third eye in the center of his forehead that shines with eldritch light. Spot is now a class skill, and he gains a +2 bonus to all of his Spot checks. Chilling Touch: The Warlock's hands are always cold to the touch. Attacks made with his bare fists (not claws) deal 1d3 points of cold damage in addition to any other damage they would normally deal. Blackhearted: The Warlock's heart darkens with cold cruelty that only one such as himself is capable of. He receives a +2 bonus to all the DCs of spells and abilities with the [Evil] descriptor, but suffers a -2 penalty to his Diplomacy checks. Eye of Terror (su): At 3rd level, the Warlock can send brave warriors fleeing in terror with but a glance. Once per day, he may use a move-equivalent action to make a frightening gaze attack at one enemy within 25 ft./level. The enemy must pass a Will save with a DC of 10 + half the Warlock's class level (rounding down) + his Wisdom modifier or flee in terror for 1 round/level. This is a mind-affecting effect. I Know Your Thoughts! (su): The Warlock sees into the minds of his enemies with piercing, malevolent clarity. Once per day, as a supernatural effect, he may read the thoughts of any creature within 25 ft./level with complete accuracy. Slave (ex): At 9th level, the Warlock gains the service of a creature who is but a slave to his desires and whims. This ability functions exactly like a cohort from the Leadership feat, except that the slave always does exactly what the Warlock wishes, and cannot have more Hit Dice than half the Warlock's class level. If his slave is killed, a new one will arrive to serve him in 3d10 days. Waking Nightmare (su): The Warlock can turn your thoughts into a living hell. Once per day, he may cause one enemy within 25 ft./level to have intense nightmares while still awake. The enemy must pass a Will save with a DC of 10 + half the Warlock's class level (rounding down) + his Wisdom modifier, or be able to do nothing but experience nightmares (for purposes of combat, as if he were stunned) for 1 round/level. Creatures who fail their Will saves are also mentally deranged by this experience, and suffer 2 points of Wisdom damage. This is a mind-affecting effect. Silent Screams (su): The Warlock can cause his enemies pain beyond their wildest imagination that is so intense that they can only utter a pitiful whimper. Once per day, he may cause one enemy within 25 ft./level such pain that he must pass a Concentration check with a DC equal to 14 + half the Warlock's class level + his Wisdom modifier, or pass out from the excrutiating pain for 1 round/level. Additionally, because of the unbearable trauma, the victim suffers 2d4 points of Wisdom damage if he fails his check. Bloodcurdling Laughter (su): The Warlock can literally curdle his enemies' blood with his unnerving laughter. Once per day, he may use a full-round action to make a bloodcurdling laugh. Up to one enemy per 4 full class levels within 10 ft./level must pass a Will save with a DC equal to 10 + half the Warlock's class level (rounding down) + his Wisdom modifier, or be so stricken with fear that they can only stand motionless where they are and do nothing (for purposes of combat, they are considered stunned) for 1 round/level. Additionally, all enemies who fail the save have their blood thickened beyond healthy levels, and suffer a point of Constitution damage. This is a mind-affecting effect. In Your Dreams (su): At 16th level, the Warlock can enter the dreams of others and literally kill them while they sleep. Once per day, whether the Warlock is awake or asleep, he may enter the dreams of any sleeping enemy within 400 ft./level, and try to kill them. He must succeed at a Wisdom check equal to half the enemy's character level + his Intelligence modifier + his Wisdom modifier; failure means that the Warlock suffers 2d4 points of both Constitution and Wisdom damage, but success means that the Warlock's deadly thoughts manifest physically, and his enemy is slain in some gruesome way from the deep, dark depths of the Warlock's twisted mind. This is a mind-affecting effect. If Looks Could Kill (su): At 18th level, the Warlock can fell powerful creatures with a mere glance. Once per day, he may use a move-equivalent action to make a gaze attack at one creature within 25 ft./level. The creature must pass a Will save with a DC of 10 + half the Warlock's class level (rounding down) + his Wisdom modifier, or be instantly slain. This is a death effect. You Are Mine! (su): At 19th level, the Warlock can control the actions of his foes as if they were mere puppets. Once per day, the Warlock may make a beckoning gesture toward any creature within 25 ft./level. The creature must then pass a Will save with a DC equal to 10 + half the Warlock's class level (rounding down) + his Wisdom modifier, or fall under the control of the Warlock for 1 rounds/level. From Darkest Night (ex): At 20th level, the Warlock's way of life and his practice of magic darken his soul to the point where even his body changes in response to his evil thoughts and intentions. This hair becomes jet black, his skin becomes pale, and his whole face always seems to be covered by a shadow, even in the brightest of lights. The Warlock gains the Outsider (Evil) template, and also gains damage reduction of 10/magic. Phantasmagoria (su): At 20th level, the Warlock's sinister thoughts manifest as an ever-changing nightmare that always accompanies him wherever he goes. All enemies within 10 feet of the Warlock must pass a Will save with a DC equal to 10 + half the Warlock's class level + his Wisdom modifier, or be so overwhelmed with the horrifying sensations that they suffer a -3 penalty to their attack rolls, skill checks, and saving throws as long as they remain within 10 feet of the Warlock. Any creature who fails their saving throw is vulnerable to the sensations for 24 hours, and only one save per creature per day may be attempted. This is a mind-affecting effect. Just a clarification: The Warlock knows as many spells as a Sorcerer, but can only cast a number per day of a Wizard, so he has the worst of both worlds. He CANNOT cast a spell an infinite number of times per day. *Update* It's finished! -Of Flame And Ash-
Kynn Elfson 07-25-05, 12:03 PM	Wizard progression....sorceror known list?? ...seriously?? This class already outshines either class. Suddenly we've got a wizard who can cast fireball at level 5 as many times as he wants. Not to mention all the other benefits. I say nay.
Nephlite 07-25-05, 12:45 PM	Wizard progression....sorceror known list?? ...seriously?? This class already outshines either class. Suddenly we've got a wizard who can cast fireball at level 5 as many times as he wants. Not to mention all the other benefits. I say nay. False while the Warlock would have a 3rd level slot, he has no 3rd level spells till level 6. Remember Wizard Progression plus Sorceror known list. Sorceror know 0 level 3's till level 6. So he cast fireball at level 6 up to twice + Modifier. Wizards can't cast inifinity. You are confusing Warlock in Complete Arcane with this one. What did you mean as many times as he wants? I have to ask why does a Warlock have to look deformed? Third Eye: The Warlock grows a fully functional third eye in the center of his forehead that shines with eldritch light. Spot is now a class skill, and he gains a +2 bonus to all of his Spot checks. I Know Your Thoughts! (su): The Warlock sees into the minds of his enemies with piercing, malevolent clarity. Once per day, as a supernatural effect, he may read the thoughts of any creature within 100 ft./level with complete accuracy. A Third eye is cool at least. I know your thoughts affects all creatures in that 100 feet/level raduis or 1 creature? I know it is 1/day, but specify. 10 + Spell level + Wisdom...shouldn't it be charisma?
Of Flame And Ash 07-25-05, 05:37 PM	The class abilities which target creatures within 100 ft./level only target one creature. Also, I added a new ability for the "Eerie" class ability, so the Warlock doesn't have to be deformed now. I'll probably get around to adding several more, so players don't feel constricted when playing this class. Does anyone have any comments or criticisms regarding the flavor of this class, or new ideas I should add/substitute in? -Of Flame And Ash-
Dark Voivode 07-26-05, 02:09 AM	Personally, the bonus feats makes it a little much for me. No specific list to choose from... Heck, the bonus feats just bug me, period. Why two good saves?
Manyfist 07-26-05, 02:52 AM	It has some good ablities, but I think its a bit TOO good. Why M/C when most the CA PrCs you can get here. I am sorry but when I think of a Warlock, I don't see all this. I see a mage that comes back again and again, flinging spells after you with no stop. I picture Warlocks more like WOTC warlocks. It's an alright class, a bit too powerful, maybe make it into a PrC and it would be Ok.
OamuTheMonk 07-26-05, 02:59 AM	Yeah, there's no good reason someone would play as a Sorceror or Wizard when they could play as this guy. Why not boost the BAB and throw in a couple d6s of Sneak attack while you're at it? Let em' get a favored enemy too. And Rage. Oh! And a free Flesh Golem at level 15! This fellow is broken. Cut the spellcasting progression way back, drop the Fort save, the hitdie, the bonus feats, and the BAB, and you'll have a pretty flavorful class that could coexist with the other base classes. But hey, I have a feeling you don't really want my opinion anyway--do what you like.
Kynn Elfson 07-26-05, 03:15 AM	no I didnt mix anything up, I was just near exhaustion when I wrote that and it came out a little garbled lol. by the by of flame and ash a warlock was merely a witch who abandoned their coven, and is viewed to be highly offensive in certain pagan circles. Just thought I'd give ya an idea of what their real world meaning is
OamuTheMonk 07-26-05, 04:32 AM	Eye of Terror (su): At 3rd level, the Warlock can send brave warriors fleeing in terror with but a glance. Once per day, he may use a move-equivalent action to make a frightening gaze attack at one enemy within 100 ft./level. The enemy must pass a Will save with a DC of 10 + the Warlock's class level (rounding down) + his Wisdom modifier or flee in terror for 10 rounds/level. Lets just look at this one ability. Assuming you mean half the Warlock's class level (rounding down), and assuming a Wisdom modifier of...say...sixteen (not unreasonable, considering that's his spell-driving stat). That set's the DC of this third level supernatural ability at 14. Fine. This warlock is traveling with a typical third level party (four members). They are beset by two Ogres. Encounter Level? About 4--tough for a third level party. On his first turn in the initiative, the "Warlock" uses a standard action to cast sleep (DC 14) on the first Ogre. The Ogre has a Will save of +1, so he needs to roll 13 or better to not doze off. The "Warlock" then uses his move action to use his supernatural gaze attack on the second Ogre (DC 14 again), who needs to roll 13 or better or flee for thirty rounds. Three minutes--this Ogre is tear-assing across the countryside like he knocked up the Terrasque's teenage daughter. Ridiculous. So, basically, the "Warlock" has a better than 50 percent chance of ending the fight himself on his first turn. All thats left is to coup de grace the sleeping Ogre, and the fight is pretty much done. You'll still have Two and a half minutes to loot the body before the other Ogre begins coming back. Let's compare this to the 3rd-level Sorceror's option along these lines: Cause Fear. DC 14 (assuming a Charisma score of sixteen) to make that same Ogre run for 1d4 rounds. The Wizard's best available option, Scare, is only marginally better. Spells are subject to spell resistence, Supernatural abilities are not. The spells are limited to close range (30' at level three), Eye of Terror is not (300' at third level). Worst of all, Scare and Cause Fear both have caps on the amount of hit die they can affect, limiting their use at higher levels. Eye of Terror, however, has no such limitation, and continues to get better as the "Warlock" levels up. Let's take a look at that phenomena. Let's say the "Warlock" want's to optimise his Eye of Terror. At second level, he becomes Sinister, adding +1 to the DC of Eye of Terror. He uses his third level feat (why not, he's got a free feat coming at fourth level--something no other class gets) for Ability Focus: Eye of Terror. This adds another +2 to the DC. Now that same third-level "Warlock's" Eye of Terror move action supernatural gaze attack has a DC of 17. A Troll now has a pretty good chance (about 75%?) of running from this guy. But lets go forward a few levels. At fourth and eighth level, the "Warlock" puts his ability points into Wisdom (a good idea, considering it's the only stat he has need of--Gaze attacks for every other creature use Charisma), and spends his adventuring wealth on a Priapt of Wisdom +4. So, at eighth level, the "Warlock's" Eye of Terror has a Save DC of 23. His party is attacked by a Frost worm (CR12), an overpowering challenge for eighth level party. Fortunately, before the Frost Worm can get the party within the range of any of his attacks (Trilling's max range: 100'), the "Warlock" can fire his Eye of Terror as a move action eight hundred feet--farther than any gaze attack posessed by any creature in the Manual. The Frost Worm will be hard pressed to roll the 17 or better that it needs to to resist or flee at top speed for eight minutes. By the time it's done fleeing, it will literally be more than a mile away! Overpowering encounter, thwarted by just one of this broken class' broken abilities. This guy needs to go back to the drawing board--and burned.
Of Flame And Ash 07-26-05, 08:46 AM	Alright, I totally toned down his class abilities. All the gaze attacks have a range of 25 ft./level and durations of 1 round/level. That should do the trick. As far as the rest, this Warlock is basically a Sorcerer with 1/3 less spell power. Gaining one additional good save, 1 hp/level, Medium BAB, and a few (now minor) special abilities seems like a fair trade-off, considering how powerful magic is. He neither has versatility in his spell selection nor the ability to cast lots of spells per day like a sorcerer. And his d6 hit dice and Medium BAB are certainly not enough to make him viable in physical combat, and if he wants to have spells that boost his combat ability, he'll have to use up very precious Spells Known slots. This class looks alot more powerful than it really is. It has many minor enhancements, none of which really synergize all that well (with the exception of Sinister class ability), at the cost of his magic. Neverthless, thank you for pointing out where he was overpowered. That has all been fixed.
DogOnWheels 07-26-05, 09:58 AM	Nice ideas, but I disagree with your initial assesment of the CA Warlock as "corny". You're just paying too much attention to that horrible leather daddy reject Morthos, as illustrated throughout CA. Almost as horrible as Kerwyn on page 168 of the PH... :yuck:. I think you should consider dropping the hd back down to earth to a d4. One could also approximate some of these abilities by taking on a PrC, otherwise, competent roleplaying should save the Warlock from complete corniness...
Manyfist 07-26-05, 10:03 AM	Nice ideas, but I disagree with your initial assesment of the CA Warlock as "corny". You're just paying too much attention to that horrible leather daddy reject Morthos, as illustrated throughout CA. Almost as horrible as Kerwyn on page 168 of the PH... :yuck:. I think you should consider dropping the hd back down to earth to a d4. One could also approximate some of these abilities by taking on a PrC, otherwise, competent roleplaying should save the Warlock from complete corniness... Lol! Morthos is cool, look at him when he's epic... he has Style! :D - Drop the HD to D4 - Boost the Spellcasting - Take away some of the ablities
DogOnWheels 07-26-05, 10:15 AM	Lol! Morthos is cool, look at him when he's epic... he has Style! :D - Drop the HD to D4 - Boost the Spellcasting - Take away some of the ablities ...and with class features like "slave" & "you are mine",it all sounds like something you might find in the Blue Oyster bar from those old Police Academy movies. Is Warm Leatherette also a class feature? How about Fiend's Tango?
Hochi-min trail 07-26-05, 10:17 AM	Lol! Morthos is cool, look at him when he's epic... he has Style! I disagree. though having d6 HD is quite uselss for a mage-type (the warlock has a few combat abilities, like the ability to use his blast while in melee, and thus needs a little boost), the whole points of this class, as it seems, is to have less spellcasting and to have some abilities. Though i can see that is a little overpowered (losing feats can handle that), the trade in of abilities for boostong spellcasting seems contradicting to the points of the class.
Manyfist 07-26-05, 10:36 AM	I disagree. though having d6 HD is quite uselss for a mage-type (the warlock has a few combat abilities, like the ability to use his blast while in melee, and thus needs a little boost), the whole points of this class, as it seems, is to have less spellcasting and to have some abilities. Though i can see that is a little overpowered (losing feats can handle that), the trade in of abilities for boostong spellcasting seems contradicting to the points of the class. Who needs to go into combat when you can sit back and watch the Wizard, Cleric, and Druid fail so many of their spells because you have Unlimited Shatter? You got Medium BAB, and with Incovations like Hideous Blow, which he can channel his Eldritich Blast through his Melee attack... and Fly unlimited... really fun. :evillaugh You can just go around and shatter the Mages Focus', Clerics Holy/unholy symbols, and Druids Holy symbol. :cool: Take a lvl in Mindbender... Dangerous indeed.
Of Flame And Ash 07-26-05, 11:31 AM	As far as Unlimited Shatter is concerned, I have two words for you: Eschew Materials. This little feat completely negates the Uber-ness of the WOTC Warlock. As far as "Slave" and "You Are Mine!", my intent was to be sort of Freddy Kreuger-ish, not some dominatrix at a night club. The same holds true for his other abilities, like his gaze attacks and Waking Nightmare. Hochi-min, you are absolutely right, the point of this class is to have less spellcasting, more abilities, and lots of flavor. Perhaps I failed in my effort, but at least it's clear enough to be understood. Any other suggestions on how to make this class more sinister/creepy? -Of Flame and Ash-
Dark Voivode 07-26-05, 03:40 PM	Bonuses to Enchantment spells (I know the guy's all about domination, but most mind-effecting spells are enchantment or illusions). Illusions could probably use a boost too. I know I'm giving you suggestions on adding more junk in, but all I really have a problem with is Bonus Feats. I think they're a cop-out. You could also scale up Sinister, unless you can take it multiple times, that isn't really clear. How overpowered it is really depends on your campaign. If you run a high-powered campaign, then you should be able to easily compensate for it. If you're not running that kind of game, yeah this class is overpowered. I'd suggest breaking down into a series of PrCs that each have a unique requirement other than having a level in the previous PrC.
OamuTheMonk 07-26-05, 05:01 PM	Bloodcurdling Laughter (su): The Warlock can literally curdle his enemies' blood with his unnerving laughter. Once per day, he may use a full-round action to make a bloodcurdling laugh. All enemies within 10 ft./level must pass a Will save with a DC equal to 10 + half the Warlock's class level (rounding down) + his Wisdom modifier, or be so stricken with fear that they can only stand motionless where they are and do nothing (for purposes of combat, they are considered stunned) for 1 round/level. Additionally, all enemies who fail the save have their blood thickened beyond healthy levels, and suffer a point of Constitution damage. At thirteenth level, this guy can (as a standard action, I assume? Or is it a move action again?) laugh, and have all enemies--regardless of hit die, type, or intelligence--within a 130' radius who fail his DC 26 will save (assuming the optimisations I mentioned before, only for this ability, plus a 12th level ability point)--drop their weapons (as if stunned) and stand still for one minute and eighteen seconds while his compatriots hack at them. Go to the middle of the room and look at your watch for a minute and eighteen seconds. Imagine someone's hammering at you that whole time. With this power, the Warlock could lead his 13th level party of 3 Warriors against...say...four twelve-headed pyrohydras (each CR 13, making another seriously overpowering Encounter Level). Each Pyrohydra would need to roll a natural 20 on their save to avoid the affect, giving the party a pretty good chance of getting twelve unanswered full attacks (and one standard attack, after moving into position) on each hydra's reduced (-2 plus flat-footed) AC--enough to probably decimate them. Oh, and in addition? Each Hydra would lose 12hp from the loss of that single point of Constitution. B-R-O-K-E-N. Broken! It ain't fixed, buddy, it's still Bro-KEN.
Of Flame And Ash 07-26-05, 05:29 PM	Well, I thought I'd get this kind of feedback. I'd like to humbly point out, however, that Hold Person, a meager 1st level spell, does the same thing as Bloodburdling Laugh, and spells death for anyone who fails their save against it. Also, Mass Hold Person is a level 4 spell, attainable at a much lower level than the class ability you referred to, and works against all humanoids, which comprise most of the creatures PCs fight in the majority of campaigns, and, like Bloodcurdling Laughter, can target many humanoids. The truth is that Bloodcurdling Laughter has a DC equal to spells that are attainable at 13th level for Wizards, yet has an effect that is attainable for both Clerics AND Wizards at a much lower level (think level 7!). Now, I hope you'll agree with me when I declare Bloodcurdling Laughter not to be overpowered, but fairly well balanced. -Of Flame And Ash-
Solamar 07-26-05, 06:18 PM	I must say an interesting take on the whole concept of a warlock. I like how you renforce the element of darkness and evil with the eerie mutations. That being said why does the horn mutation give a +1 natural AC shouldn't give a gore attack or something? I think you should also come up with a few more mutations just give the class more variation. How about: Eyes of the Beast The eyes of the Warlock seem to reflect an unearthly light (think cats eyes) giveing the Warlock Darkvision 60ft and a +2 to intimidate in poorly illuminated areas. just an idea if I have any more I'll let you know(that is if you like this one :) )
OamuTheMonk 07-26-05, 06:23 PM	Well, I thought I'd get this kind of feedback. I'd like to humbly point out, however, that Hold Person, a meager 1st level spell, does the same thing as Bloodburdling Laugh, and spells death for anyone who fails their save against it. Also, Mass Hold Person is a level 4 spell, attainable at a much lower level than the class ability you referred to, and works against all humanoids, which comprise most of the creatures PCs fight in the majority of campaigns, and, like Bloodcurdling Laughter, can target many humanoids. The truth is that Bloodcurdling Laughter has a DC equal to spells that are attainable at 13th level for Wizards, yet has an effect that is attainable for both Clerics AND Wizards at a much lower level (think level 7!). Now, I hope you'll agree with me when I declare Bloodcurdling Laughter not to be overpowered, but fairly well balanced. -Of Flame And Ash- Mass Hold person is a SEVENTH level spell (available to Wizards at level 13, Sorcerors at level 14), it only functions against humanoids; it is subject to spell resistance; it can only be used on a group of targets within a 15' radius of each other (no two targets can be more than 30' apart), meaning the maximum targets hit would be like 18 (medium creatures), if they were all standing cheek-to-cheek; and it must be prepared each day, taking up a spell slot. Bloodcurdling Laughter is a supernatural ability given for free at the requisite level. It does not need to be prepared. It does not take up a spell-slot. It functions against all types of creature--Outsiders, Animals (why would an animal even know what laughter is?), Giants, Aberrations--even Dragons. Which is good, because, due to it's being a supernatural ability, it bypasses a Dragon's spell resistance without any problem. It affects all enemies within a 130' radius, meaning it could affect 25 Mohrgs, 10 Pyrohydras, 13 Hill giants, 13 Nessian Hellhounds, and 4 adult White Dragons. With some space left over. Only the Adult White Dragons would have a decent chance of making the save (about 50%). Considering his complete immunity to Mass Hold person, and spell resistance 18, a 50% chance to fail against this 13th level ability is staggeringly, bonecrushingly, all-encompassingly broken. And it only gets more broken as the character levels up. So, no, I don't agree that this ability is balanced. Sorry, buddy. Hell, this would be broken for an epic character! I'm starting to realize that you must be either very young, or generally unfamiliar with the rules to believe otherwise.
Of Flame And Ash 07-30-05, 10:46 PM	K, so Bloodcurdling Laughter is now balanced, as it affects one creature/4 full class levels. I also took away the bonus feats and added some new abilities, as was suggested. I must give credit to Shadowfoot for the Phantasmagoria ability, as I simply couldn't resist incorporating it into this rather sinister class. I'd like to know what people think of this class, and any suggestions on how to make it more fun/balanced. -Of Flame And Ash-
OamuTheMonk 07-31-05, 02:35 AM	Not only did you accept criticism, you accepted criticism from someone being rude! Much strength of character. P.S. Sorry for being rude. P.P.S. This guy still looks overpowered to me. If I didn't like the flavor as much as I do, I'd quit lookin at it. I'll try to have some constructive criticism, and a civil tongue when I return.
hiryuu 07-31-05, 09:16 AM	a warlock was merely a witch who abandoned their coven, and is viewed to be highly offensive in certain pagan circles. Just thought I'd give ya an idea of what their real world meaning is I smell the scent of words being misused! Warlock is actually a term meaning "oath breaker" as it applies to the devil; an agent noun for "to lie." It was also a term used to describe anyone deformed or a cannibal. Also can be used as "one in league with the devil," which ties into the connatatins above. The use of it as a male equivalent of witch is an old (I'm talking mid-1500s) Scottish use, which makes the "abandonded their coven" use a modern corruption of the term.
Of Flame And Ash 07-31-05, 11:22 AM	I can see how this class is a little overpowered. I'm thinking that perhaps making a restrictive spell list might be the last key to balancing it, as there are some spells which a Warlock like this shouldn't be able to use, like Glitterdust, Light, and other "cute" spells. His spells will be dark, frightening, insidious, and destructive, and he'll also have lots of divinations, as the Warlock is a malevolently insightful creature. He'll have many curses, death effects, and weird effects (like form-changing and control spells), but nothing that smacks of gentleness, nature, or cuteness. What does everyone think about that?
ravendm 07-31-05, 11:58 AM	You were right, i do really like this class. :) Just a couple of questions on this one. First, are the claws and horns natural weapons? I assume they are since the chilling touch doesnt effect them, but you should make that clear. Second, what are the weapon and armor profs? Finally, why does he have a good Fort save? Good Will i can see(with his use of so many fear effects he should develope a strong will of his own), but i dont see the reason for good Fortitude. I think that if you drop the fort save to poor, and implement your restricted spell access list this class will be done...and i will have a new BBEG.
OamuTheMonk 07-31-05, 03:15 PM	I can see how this class is a little overpowered. I'm thinking that perhaps making a restrictive spell list might be the last key to balancing it, as there are some spells which a Warlock like this shouldn't be able to use, like Glitterdust, Light, and other "cute" spells. His spells will be dark, frightening, insidious, and destructive, and he'll also have lots of divinations, as the Warlock is a malevolently insightful creature. He'll have many curses, death effects, and weird effects (like form-changing and control spells), but nothing that smacks of gentleness, nature, or cuteness. What does everyone think about that? Necromancy, Enchantment (focusing on domination), illusion and evocation. You should probably consider adopting the Warmage-style spell list--a Warmage "knows" all spells on her (very limited) list, as soon as she can cast them.
Of Flame And Ash 07-31-05, 04:48 PM	Oamu, that's a very good idea...but I'm going to give him some divinations as well, because this Warlock is sinister and kind of a BBEG. He likes to see into the future so he can scheme. He's kind of like a witch in that regard, but more evil and terrifying than a witch ever could be. So, it'll be Necromancy, Enchantment (focusing on domination), anything to do with death, anything to do with fear, Evocation, the darker Illusion spells (like phantasmal killer and weird), and most of the PHB divination spells. -Of Flame And Ash-
I_am_an_undead 08-01-05, 03:06 PM	I think... it's still too strong. The thing is: he has a medium BAB, d6 at each levels, 4+intelligence skill points per levels, and 1,2,3... 14 special class features. and one of them is gained multiple times. Now let's comparate it with... let's say a wizard. The wizard as a bigger variety of spells, of course, but spellcasting is one of his only class features. He also have a familiar (witch is a class feature of your Warlock), the scribe scroll feat free and 1 bonus feat each 5 levels. Now that was the class features. Let's look at the rest of the things I mansioned. Wizard has low BAB, d4 hit point, and 2+intelligence skill points. I like the class, and I'd like very much to see it balanced so I could use it. I hope you continue working on it. Don't give up! :P Edit: Sorry, I skipped the last part, the clarification thing. With that, He is Ok. Maybe not perfectly balanced but then again none of the classes (and I talk about the official classes too) are perfectly balanced. Good work! I like it.
Of Flame And Ash 08-01-05, 05:41 PM	Undead, I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you here. Having access to protection/stat boosting/form-changing/every other type of spell is extremely significant. It may be only one of the Wizard's class abilities, but it makes an incredible difference. This Warlock is really less powerful than the Wizard, and most of his special abilities grant minor bonuses or both target only one creature and are limited to one use per day. If you ask me, not all that powerful. The Warlock's Medium BAB is there only for one reason: spells that require ranged touch attacks. With his d6 hit dice, he won't be any kind of threat in close combat. Essentially, the Warlock is limited to the following kinds of spells: 1.) Direct damage; 2.) Death effects; 3.) Illusions; 4.) Divinations; 5.) "Binding" spells (require favors in return for service by an extraplanar creature, or require some agreement); 6.) "Direct" Enchantments (hold or dominate Enchantments); 7.) Miscellaneous "creepy" spells added for flavor, like Wall of Limbs, Spectral Hand, etc., most of which are either Evocation, Illusion, or Necromancy (like his other spells). The Warlock's biggest disadvantage is his lack of stat boosting spells (which means the DCs of his spells will be lower than those of other magic users without costly magic items), and his lack of protective spells. In fact, he is frighteningly vulnerable, especially when asleep, as he doesn't have "Sentry" type spells. As he is a spontaneous caster, Metamagic is also difficult for him, and he doesn't gain any additional bonus feats to help him out there either. I think this class needs to be seen in context with the others, with all strengths and weaknesses carefully considered. I believe it to ultimately be balanced; it just doesn't look like that at first glance. -Of Flame And Ash-
I_am_an_undead 08-01-05, 06:35 PM	Thank you to be polite. But then I will answer simply because I can't help to argue, even when I know I shouldn't. The fact is, spellcasting classes always have less class features (not including spellcasting), and your Warlock has a lot of them. It isn't a bad thing in itself but giving it spellcasting (however limited it may be), lots of class features and hit dice of more than the minimum is dificult to balance. He also have a good number of skill points per level. But as I said, even if it is not yet perfectly balanced, it is very, very good. I don't think you should change it anyway (I would if I decide to include this class in my D&D games but that's just me), I just state my opinion on the matter. Anyway, I think I'll shut up now. Hope you can see my point. Bye! :P
Of Flame And Ash 08-01-05, 07:03 PM	Well Undead, if you see the class as overpowered, you can always modify it if you wish to use it in any of your campaigns. The class as presented is basically one big suggestion; I invite you to tinker with it until you are satisfied. -Of Flame And Ash-
Nephlite 08-01-05, 09:29 PM	Thank you to be polite. But then I will answer simply because I can't help to argue, even when I know I shouldn't. The fact is, spellcasting classes always have less class features (not including spellcasting), and your Warlock has a lot of them. It isn't a bad thing in itself but giving it spellcasting (however limited it may be), lots of class features and hit dice of more than the minimum is dificult to balance. He also have a good number of skill points per level. But as I said, even if it is not yet perfectly balanced, it is very, very good. I don't think you should change it anyway (I would if I decide to include this class in my D&D games but that's just me), I just state my opinion on the matter. Anyway, I think I'll shut up now. Hope you can see my point. Bye! :P Exhibit A: The Druid, tons of class features + Spellcasting + Wildshape (this is overpowered aspect so it is seperate). Exhibit B: Bard: Lots of class features + Spellcasting (not overpowered, powerful in skill/good with spell glibness) Exhibit C: Warlock in Complete Arcane: Class features + Limited spellcasting + Ray atytack (balanced from what I heard) So having class features + spellcasting doesn't always over power a class.
I_am_an_undead 08-02-05, 08:19 AM	...I beleive I said "difficult" to balance. Not "impossible". Yes, I know the druid has a lot of class features (9 actually) but really? I still think it is somewhat unbalanced. But as I said, it is probably just because I like to argue. Oh, and Of Flame And Ash? could you put the base money and weapons and armor profiency there too? Just a question like that.