Post/Author/DateTime	Post
doomXL 11-03-07, 03:18 PM	can someone help me? I was thinking of having a character that revolves around weapons and whatnot. I was thinking like a double sword samurai thats fleet of feet and fast but can take on mobs of enemies. can anyone think of like a class or character? im sorry if this has already been done or if there is a rule against this. Im kinda new so if Im breaking any rules feel free to close this topic
Tema69 11-03-07, 03:29 PM	How high level are you thinking of? Scout (CA), Monk or Barbarian for bonus movement. Samurai (CW) or Fighter for fighting abilities. Possibly Ranger for 2WF. Edit: Weapon Specialist with Bastard Sword as a Focus. Btw. Do you mean two-bladed sword, or two twin swords?
doomXL 11-03-07, 03:36 PM	two twin swords...sry i was thinking at starting at level one (anything else seems like cheating to me) and just good at kicking *****. i dont think barbarian would work since I dont want him to be a dumb brute but if samurai is a subclass I would think maybe like a monk samurai?
The_Shaman 11-03-07, 03:38 PM	Err, you should maybe look at the fighter, samurai (the CWarrior and the OA versions), barbarian, warblade, crusader, swashbuckler, sohei, psychic warrior, paladin, and, hmm, swordsage classes. Ok, not the Cwarrior samurai - between the fighter, the OA samurai and just being a bad class, it's not worth it. Seriously, there are a lot of classes that do what you want - to some degree, and with different extra abilities. I'd say the warblade (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060802a&page=2) (don't be fooled by the description - just because the iconic warblade thinks or acts in some way, doesn't mean they all do) or the psychic warrior (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/classes/psychicWarrior.htm) might be the best for you, but I still think you should refine your character's concept - a lot. Any of the classes I mentioned above - and probably more I did not include - can be used to make agile, skilled warriors that can deal with numerous attackers. Add in the PrCs and you have a LOT of choice. Edit: doomXL, don't think the barbarian has to be a uncouth brute, much less dumb. While their class skills mark them as expert survivalists, the only feature that marks them as dumb is the lack of writing language skill, which costs 2 skill points to fix. At heart, they are aware and tough warriors who use their fury to fuel their blows. Rokugan - one of the settings most closely modeled after medieval Japan - has a lot of samurai with berserker/barbarian levels. The fact that no one (without a death wish, at least) would call them "barbarians" doesn't mean they don't use the abilities and mechanics of the barbarian class as per the PHB
Tema69 11-03-07, 03:49 PM	We use alternative classes, and for the monk and the samurai, we use the following: Samurai "My ancestors had words for people who would do such a thing. They were not nice words." The war torn countrysides of many a land are held together with tremendous amounts of dedicated work by masters of weaponry and honor. These martial specialists represent the structure of society by their very existence, and beat the living crap out of any who would dare to stand against it. At least, that's the idea. In truth, there are those who take upon the mantle of the Samurai only to betray its ideals. Those who trample the fabric of the social network they are supposedly sworn to protect. Alignment: The Samurai can be of any alignment. All of them must maintain the veneer of honor and civility, though there is no reason that they have to actually be Lawful. Races: The Samurai is primarily found in societies where the law of the land is held in primacy over other things. So while a Samurai himself does not have to be Lawful, Lawful races bear the vast majority of Samurai. Starting Gold: 4d6x10 gp (140 gold), plus one masterwork weapon Starting Age: As Fighter. Hit Die: d8 Class Skills: The Samurai's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (all skills individually) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Swim (Str), and Tumble (Dex). Skills/Level: 4 + Intelligence Bonus BAB: Good (1/1), Saves: Fort: Poor; Reflex: Poor; Will: Good Level, Benefit 1 Ancestral Weaponry, Pledge of Loyalty 2 Horde Breaker 3 Kiai! 4 Whirlwind Attack 5 Ancestral Guidance 6 Blindfighting, Terrible Blows 7 Iaijutsu 8 Parry Magic 9 Subtle Cut 10 Blade of Devastation 11 Iaijutsu Focus 12 Cut Magic 13 Deny Arcane Defenses 14 Final Cut 15 Iaijatsu Master 16 Reflect Magic 17 Blade of Souls 18 Deny Armor 19 Iaijutsu Grandmaster 20 Scrolls of Wisdom All of the following are Class Features of the Samurai class: Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Samurai are proficient with all simple and martial weapons, as well as a single Exotic weapon appropriate to the Samurai's tradition. Samurai are proficient with Light and Medium Armor, but not with shields of any kind. Ancestral Weaponry: Every culture with a Samurai tradition has a signature weapon that Samurai from that culture use. Whether it is the Spiked Chain of the Hobgoblin Khanate of Khadun or the Katana of the Human Empire of Rokugan, the weapon serves as a symbol of the office and prowess of the Samurai. A samurai can only have one weapon designated as his Ancestral Weapon at a time, and this weapon must be a masterwork weapon exalted by the Samurai's warrior culture. He must perform a 24 hour ritual to call his ancestral spirits into the weapon and designate it as his Ancestral Weapon. This ritual costs 100 gp in incense and offerings, and once performed grants the following abilities: -Counts as his Ancestral Weapon for all Samurai abilities. -Has a minimum enhancement bonus to attack and damage equal to his level divided by three (maximum of +5 for a samurai of 20th level or lower). -The Ancestral weapon has double HPs and +10 Hardness, and has the Ghost Touch special property. · Example: Bandy Humaido is a halfling samurai, and his people greatly extort the halfling skiprock as a weapon of war – but because the skiprock is thrown weapon ammunition, it is inappropriate as an Ancestral Weapon (which, of course, you could only have one of). As such, Bandy instead draws the power of his ancestors into a short sword. Pledge of Loyalty: Samurai pledge their loyalty to a Lord, a figure of temporal power and head of a noble family or clan. To retain this Lord, they must follow this Lord's orders and uphold any Code of Conduct the Lord obeys. As long as a Samurai does these two things, he cannot be forced to act against his Lord or Lord's family by mind-affecting effects. Samurai who have broken their vows to their lord are called ronin, while samurai who have never been pledged to a lord or are unwilling to do so are weaponmasters called kensai, sword saints, or simply "master swordsman" or other descriptive title. Regardless of their name, Samurai without a Lord receive a +4 bonus against mind-affecting effects. Horde Breaker: A Samurai gains Horde Breaker as a bonus feat at 2nd level. If the Samurai already has this feat, he may choose a [Combat] Feat instead, but only if he meets the prerequisites of that feat. Kiai! (Ex): At 3rd level, a Samurai may convert a successful strike into a confirmed critical hit. He may use this ability a number of times per day equal to his half his Samurai level +2. This ability is a free action that is declared after the strike is rolled and confirmed as a hit, but before damage is rolled. This ability cannot be used on Attacks of Opportunity. Whirlwind Attack: A Samurai gains Whirlwind Attack as a bonus feat at 4th level. Ancestral Guidance(Sp): At 5th level, a Samurai may seek guidance from his ancestors. This counts as a commune effect that can be used once a day. A samurai can also seek guidance from other peoples' ancestors if they are available. This works like a speak with dead effect that may be used once per day. Blindfighting: A Samurai gains Blindfighting as a bonus feat at 6th level. If the Samurai already has this feat, he may choose a [Combat] Feat instead, but only if he meets the prerequisites of that feat. Terrible Blows (Su): At 6th level, a Samurai's Ancestral Weapon bypasses Damage Reduction and ignores Hardness. Iaijutsu (Ex): When a 7th level Samurai has the Edge on an opponent, he may take an attack of opportunity against that opponent as an immediate action at any time. Parry Magic (Su): At 8th level, a Samurai may use his Ancestral Weapon to parry magic targeted at him. When the Samurai is targeted by a spell or supernatural ability, he may take an Attacks of Opportunity against the targeted effect. If he can make an attack roll against an AC equal to the spell or effect's DC with this Attack of Opportunity, the effect does not affect him. Subtle Cut A Samurai gains Subtle Cut as a bonus feat at 9th level. If the Samurai already has this feat, he may choose another [Combat] Feat instead, but only if he meets the prerequisites of that feat. Blade of Devastation (Su) At 10th level, the Samurai may attack enemies within his reach through objects and walls, his Ancestral Weapon automatically destroying any unattended object or wall in the way with a Hardness less than 20. As a result, enemies do not gain cover bonuses against an attacking Samurai. This effect can also pierce [force] effects. As a standard action, he can also destroy unattended objects of any Hardness with a successful Ancestral weapon attack, or dispel up to a 10' by 10' section of a [force] effect. Iaijutsu Focus (Ex): At 11th level, a Samurai may make up to his per round limit of Attacks of Opportunity against any opponent(s) that he threatens as an immediate action. Cut Magic (Su): At 12th level, a Samurai may attack ongoing spell effects by attacking the square they are in for Area of Effect effects or the object or person for targeted effects (which does damage as normal to the object or person). This attack is handled like the Samurai's Parry Magic ability, but it only dispels a 10' by 10' section of an Area of Effect spell or spell-like ability. Deny Caster Defenses (Ex): At 13th level, a Samurai attacking with his Ancestral Weapon ignores any AC bonuses on his targets that come from spells or spell-like abilities. Final Cut(Ex): At 14th level, a Samurai's Ancestral Weapon gains the Vorpal Special quality, even if it is not a slashing weapon. Iaijatsu Master(Ex) : At 15th level, any enemy struck by a Samurai's Attacks of Opportunity must make a Fortitude save against a DC equal to 10 + half the Samurai's HD +the Samurai's Wisdom bonus or be dazed for one round. A successful save against this effect makes the enemy immune to this effect for five rounds. Reflect Magic(Su) : At 16th level, an spell effect that would be dispelled by a successful use of the Samurai's Parry Magic ability can instead be reflected back on the caster, as per a spell turning effect. Blade of Souls: At 17th level, any enemy killed by a Samurai's Ancestral Weapon has his soul sucked into it, and this enemy cannot be raised, resurrected, or otherwise returned to life until the Ancestral Blade is broken. Each time the Ancestral Weapon takes a soul, the Samurai gains a single bonus use of his Kiai! ability that must be used before the next sunrise. Deny Armor(Su): At 18th level, a Samurai attacking with his Ancestral Weapon ignores any AC bonuses on his targets that come from armor or natural armor. Iaijutsu Grandmaster (Ex): At 19th level, any Attack of opportunity made by the Samurai is automatically a confirmed critical hit. Scrolls of Wisdom: At 20th level, the Samurai has reached the pinnacle of his art, and he may compose a treatise of his collected wisdom. If he spends one month composing this treatise, he may distribute it and spread his wisdom. Anyone who reads this treatise gains a +2 competence bonus to attack characters with Samurai levels, but a -8 penalty to attack the writer of the treatise. In addition, a Samurai who writes his treatise no longer takes ability penalties for aging as long as one copy of the treatise exists. Iconic Samurai: In examples, we will always use Bandy Humaido, the Iconic Halfling Samurai. Monk "I am a Grand Master of Flowers. You are not." Fantasy literature's view of the "martial artist" has about as much to do with a real martial artist as its view of salamanders has to do with real salamanders. But let's face the facts: Monks are totally sweet. They flip out and kill people with their hands. A Monk does not practice any "real" martial art, we call those people "Fighters" – a Monk practices an entirely magical martial art that only works in areas where badgers can talk and winged horses can fly. Every Monk follows a different martial path that involves jumping super high and having glowing things coming off of their hands when they perform their super moves. Some monks use weapons, but most just use their hands and feet to devastating effect. Some Monks shout the names of their techniques in battle to demoralize their opponents, others stay aloof and silent during even the toughest of challenges. Alignment: Monks may be of any alignment. Really. If a bar brawl breaks out, some Monks will try to break it up, other Monks will join in. Whatever. Races: Because the martial paths of a Monk embrace all manners of comportment, from Stoic Lawfulness to Boisterous Chaos, almost every sapient race has those who take up the monk's path. With its lack of emphasis on ranged weaponry, few of the slower races turn towards these magical combat styles, and halflings and dwarves rarely become monks. The discipline emphasizes physical strength as much as it emphasizes perceptiveness and inner strength, so orcs are as likely to become monks as Kuo-Toa are. Starting Gold: 2d4x10 gp (50 gold) Starting Age: As Monk. Hit Die: d8 Class Skills: The Monk's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (all skills individually) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), and Tumble (Dex). Skills/Level: 4 + Intelligence Bonus BAB: Good (1/1), Saves: Fort: Good; Reflex: Good; Will: Good Level, Benefit 1 Armored in Life, Fatal Strike, Willow Step, Fighting Style 2 Rain of Flowers, Abundant Leap 3 Fighting Style 4 Diamond Soul 5 Fighting Style 6 Walk of a Thousand Steps 7 Fighting Style 8 Immaculate Diamond Soul 9 Master Fighting Style 10 Leap of the Clouds 11 Master Fighting Style 12 Master of the Four Winds 13 Master Fighting Style 14 Master of the Four Seasons 15 Grand Master Fighting Style 16 Master of Diamond Soul 17 Grand Master Fighting Style 18 Perfect Mastery 19 Grand Master Fighting Style 20 Grand Master of Flowers All of the following are Class Features of the Monk class: Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Monks are proficient with all simple weapons, as well any weapon defined as a special monk weapon, such as the sai, the nunchuka, the kama, the shuriken, and the triple staff. Monks are not proficient with any armor or shields of any kind. Armored in Life (Su): A Monk has a special Armor bonus whenever they are not using armor or shields that he is not proficient in. This Armor Bonus applies against Touch Attacks and Incorporeal Touch Attacks, and has a value of +4. Every even numbered class level, the Armored in Life bonus increases by 1. If the Monk wears armor which he is proficient in (for example: normal clothing) that has an enhancement bonus, that enhancement bonus applies to his Armored in Life Armor Bonus. Wilow Step (Su): A true monk does not seek to outrun the fist, but to anticipate it. If a Monk would be allowed to add his Dexterity modifier to a Reflex Save or Armor Class, he may add his Wisdom bonus (if positive) instead. Fatal Strike (Su): A Monk has a natural weapon Slam in addition to whatever else he is capable of doing. As a natural slam attack, if he uses no other natural or manufactured weapons he adds his Strength and a half to damage and may make iterative attacks if he has sufficient BAB. If the slam is used with other weaponry, it becomes a secondary natural attack, suffers a -5 penalty to-hit, and adds only half his Strength modifier to damage. A monk's slam attack does a base of 1d8 damage for a medium sized monk and does more or less damage as appropriate if the Monk is larger or smaller than medium size. Fighting Style (Su): At levels 1, 3, 5, and 7, the Monk learns a Fighting Style. Each Fighting style requires a Swift Action to activate, lasts one round, and is usable at will. Each Fighting Style must have a name (see Naming Your Fighting Style below), and provides two bonuses from the Fighting Style Abilities: · Fighting Style Abilities · While Active, your Fighting Style provides a +4 Dodge Bonus to AC. · While Active, your Fighting Style provides a +4 Dodge Bonus to Saving Throws. · While Active, your Fighting Style forces any opponent struck by your slam attack to make a Fortitude Save (DC 10 + ½ your character level + your Wisdom Modifier) or become stunned for one round. · While Active, your Fighting Style allows you to make an attack of opportunity against any opponent who attacks you. This attack of opportunity must be a trip or disarm attempt. · While Active, your Fighting Style provides you with concealment. · While Active, your Fighting Style provides a +30' Insight Bonus to your movement rate. · While Active, your Fighting Style allows your slam attacks to ignore hardness and DR. · While Active, your Fighting Style provides any bonuses it gives to your slam attack to any attack you make with any weapon. · While Active, your Fighting Style causes your slam attack to inflict piercing damage and to inflict 2 points of Constitution damage. · While Active, your Fighting Style causes your slam attack to inflict slashing damage and to reduce your opponent's movement rate by 10' every time they suffer damage from it. This movement rate reduction can be healed like ability damage (treating 5' of movement as 1 point of ability damage). · While Active, your Fighting Style allows you to move through occupied spaces as if they were unoccupied and you provoke no attacks of opportunity for your movement. Rain of Flowers (Su): Any time a 2nd level Monk inflicts lethal damage, he may elect to inflict non-lethal damage instead. Any time a Monk inflicts non-lethal damage, he may elect to inflict lethal damage instead. Abundant Leap (Su): At 2nd level, a Monk's ability to jump is unbounded by his height. In addition, the DC for any jump check is divided by two. Diamond Soul (Su): At 4th level, the Monk gains Spell Resistance equal to 5 + his character level. At 8th level, his soul becomes immaculate and his Spell Resistance improves to 10 + character level, and at 16th level he masters his diamond soul and his spell resistance improves to 15 + character level. Walk of a Thousand Steps: Once per day, a Monk of sixth level or higher may activate a Fighting Style and extend its duration to 1 round/level rather than 1 round. Activating this Fighting Style is still a Swift Action. Other Fighting Styles may be activated during this period, though their duration is normally going to be only 1 round. Master Fighting Style (Su): At levels 9, 11, and 13, the Monk learns a Master Fighting Style. Each Master Fighting style requires a Swift Action to activate, lasts one round, and is usable at will. Each Master Fighting Style must have a name (see Naming Your Fighting Style below), and provides two bonuses from the Master Fighting Style Abilities. When a Monk gains a new Master Fighting Style, he may replace one of his Fighting Styles with a different Fighting Style. · Master Fighting Style Abilities: · While Active, your Master Fighting Style allows you to teleport yourself and everything you are physically carrying 60 feet in any direction as a free action usable once per round. · While Active, your Master Fighting Style provides total concealment. · While Active, your Master Fighting Style transforms your slam attacks into Force effects that inflict Force damage. · While Active, your Master Fighting Style affects any creature struck with your slam attack with a banishment effect that transports it back to its home plane unless it succeeds at a Will save (DC 10 + ½ character level + Wisdom Modifier). Outsiders suffer a -4 penalty to their saving throw. A creature so banished, may not return to the plane it was banished from for a year. · While Active, your Master Fighting Style forces any creature struck by your slam attack to make a Reflex Save (DC 10 + ½ character level + Wisdom Modifier) or be helpless for one round. · While Active, your Master Fighting Style provides you the effect of an air walk spell, and gives you a +20' Competence bonus to your speed. · While Active, your Master Fighting Style affects any opponent you successfully trip or bulrush with the violent thrust version of telekinesis, with a caster level equal to your character level. There is no saving throw against this effect. · While Active, your Master Fighting Style allows you to shoot fire out of your hands or mouth as a standard action. The fire can be shot out to medium range, requires a ranged touch attack, and inflicts 1d6 of fire damage per character level if it hits. · While Active, your Master Fighting Style causes your slam attack to inflict vile damage. · While Active, your Master Fighting Style forces every creature within 10 feet of you to make a Will save (DC 10 + ½ character level + Wisdom Modifier) or become panicked for one minute. · While Active, your Master Fighting Style affects any target you strike with your slam attack with a targeted version greater dispelling with a caster level equal to your character level. · While Active, your Master Fighting Style causes 5d6 of Sonic damage to everything within 30 feet of you when you inflict damage with your slam attack against any target. You are immune to Sonic damage while your Master Fighting Style is active. · Instead of gaining a Master Fighting Style Ability, you may choose two regular Fighting Style Abilties. Leap of the Clouds (Su): At 10th level, the DC for any jump check is divided by 5. Master of the Four Winds (Su): The Monk's breath of life is carried on the winds of fate. At 12th level, if the monk is restored to life, he doesn't lose a level for doing so. Master of the Four Seasons: Time passes relentlessly in the world, but for a monk of 14th level, the change of seasons is as no change at all. He no longer appears to age, never accumulates any additional penalties for growing older and will never die of old age. Grand Master Fighting Style (Su): At levels 15, 17, and 19, the Monk learns a Grand Master Fighting Style. Each Grand Master Fighting style requires a Swift Action to activate, lasts one round, and is usable at will. Each Grand Master Fighting Style must have a name (see Naming Your Fighting Style below), and provides two bonuses from the Grand Master Fighting Style Abilities. When a Monk gains a new Grand Master Fighting Style, he may replace one of his Fighting Styles or Master Fighting Style with a different Style of the same type. · Grand Master Fighting Style Abilities: · While Active, your Grand Master Fighting Style makes you and everything you are carrying incorporeal, your slam attacks are incorporeal touch attacks. · While Active, your Grand Master Fighting Style slows down time to the point where you can act twice each round, you do not gain an extra Swift Action during your extra actions. · While Active, your Grand Master Fighting Style allows you to punch a hole through space and time, allowing you to open a travel version of gate with a slam attack. · While Active, your Grand Master Fighting Style prevents all [Teleport] effects from entering or exiting within 1 mile of your location. · While Active, your Grand Master Fighting Style causes your slam attacks to reduce the spell resistance of enemies by an equal amount to the damage the slam attack inflicts. · While Active, your Grand Master Fighting Style forces every creature struck with your slam attack to make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + ½ character level + Wisdom Modifier) or die. · While Active, your Grand Master Fighting Style affects any target you strike with your slam attack with a disintegrate effect, with a caster level equal to your character level. · While Active, your Grand Master Fighting Style causes you to regenerate. You recover a number of points of nonlethal damage each round equal to your character level. Unarmed or Slam attacks inflict regular damage. · While Active, your Grand Master Fighting Style forces any opponent you strike with your slam attack to make a Willpower save (DC 10 + ½ character level + Wisdom Modifier) or become feeble minded. · While Active, your Grand Master Fighting Style affects every target you strike with a slam attack with the violent thrust version of telekinesis, with a caster level equal to your character level. There is no saving throw against this effect. · Instead of gaining a Grand Master Fighting Style Ability, you may choose two Master Fighting Style Abilties. Perfect Mastery: Once per day, a Monk of 18th level or higher may activate a Fighting Style, Master Fighting Style, or Grand Master Fighting Style and extend its duration to 1 round/level rather than 1 round. Activating this style is still a Swift Action. Other styles may be activated during this period, though their duration is normally going to be only 1 round Grand Master of Flowers: At 20th level, the Monk becomes an Outsider, and immortal of legend. He gains the augmented subtype of his previous type, and has Damage Reduction of 20/Epic. Naming your Fighting Style: Roll a d10, or choose an adjective, an animal, and a noun: Adjective Chart: 1. Running 2. Hungry 3. Angry 4. Naked 5. Drunken 6. Fortunate 7. Lazy 8. Swift 9. Powerful 10. Enlightened Animal Chart: 1. Ox 2. Tiger 3. Dragon 4. Crane 5. Monkey 6. Turtle 7. Manticore 8. Serpent 9. Hummingbird 10. Demon Noun Chart: 1. Fist 2. Stance 3. Spinning Kick 4. Attack 5. Technique 6. Style 7. Dance 8. Movement 9. Touch 10. Fu · Note from the authors: Feel free to add any adjectives, animals, or nouns that you want. There's no reason that your character's fighting style has to be called "Naked Tiger Stance" rather than "Astonished Centaur Defense". These are from a guy on the boards called "K". I'm planning on creating a character Monk1/Samurai < with a bow as ancestral weapon, and unarmed strike for close combat.
Marcus Majarra 11-03-07, 05:51 PM	If you want things to be simple, you can always go Fighter 20, and focus on fighting with dual bastard swords. Or, better yet, Fighter 18 / Exotic Weapon Master 2. As it is, you can now get many PHB2 feats as bonus fighter feats (including Weapon Supremacy), and you can pretty much achieve the desired fighting style. Your focus should be two-weapon fighting and bastard sword specialization. Interesting feats to consider: TWF Tree: TWF, ITWF, GTWF, Oversized TWF Specialization Tree: Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, Greater Weapon Focus, Greater Weapon Specialization, Melee Weapon Mastery (Slashing), Slashing Flurry, Weapon Supremacy That's 11 feats right there. As a human Fighter 18 / Exotic Weapon Master 2, you'll be entitled to 18. That leaves you with 7 feats to delve into other areas: Dodge, Karmic Strike, Combat Reflexes, Robilar's Gambit, and Double Hit for AoO goodness Combat Expertise and Improved Trip if you plan on taking the trip attack stunt as an EWM Power Attack is always good when fighting with Oversized TWF, since you can use it with both weapons.
navar100 11-03-07, 06:08 PM	Warblade, taking most if not all maneuvers from Iron Heart and Tiger Claw. Fighter can do it too. Look for multi-feat synergies. If you're really into two-weapon fighting I think warblade does it a little better than fighter because a couple of warblade maneuvers allow you to move and still get multiple attacks, but the many feats a fighter gets still allow you to do something fun and useful when you only get one attack like Sunder Cleave or Improved Trip.
Tema69 11-04-07, 06:40 AM	i was thinking at starting at level one Did you guys miss this? He wants to start lvl 1, not lvl 20... So writing that he should be lvl 20 fighter is just as appropriate as saying "Go for Fighter 15/Rogue 15/Ranger 20/Warblade 15 and possibly Exotic Weapon Master 3". With the following feats, you should be able to kick some ass with dual katanas: Two Weapon Fighting, Improved Two Weapon Fighting, Ambidexterity (if allowed by GM), Oversized Two Weapon Fighting, Two Weapon Pounce, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Bastard Sword), Weapon Focus (Bastard Sword), Weapon Specialisation (Bastard Sword). This is achievable by a 6th level human fighter.
Rulebook 11-05-07, 02:09 PM	hmm... two swords, fleet of foot, mobs of enemies... you sir are playing a Dervish. Yep.
bkdubs123 11-05-07, 02:32 PM	Did you guys miss this? He wants to start lvl 1, not lvl 20... So writing that he should be lvl 20 fighter is just as appropriate as saying "Go for Fighter 15/Rogue 15/Ranger 20/Warblade 15 and possibly Exotic Weapon Master 3". With the following feats, you should be able to kick some ass with dual katanas: Two Weapon Fighting, Improved Two Weapon Fighting, Ambidexterity (if allowed by GM), Oversized Two Weapon Fighting, Two Weapon Pounce, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Bastard Sword), Weapon Focus (Bastard Sword), Weapon Specialisation (Bastard Sword). This is achievable by a 6th level human fighter. They weren't telling him to play a 20th level fighter, they were giving examples of Fighter and/or Warblade builds through the 20 levels that two-weapon fight. And then you turn around and give him a 6th level build! Practice what you preach, even if you are wrong about it... But, yes you're going to want to start out as a fighter just because those early feats are critical. Human Fighter 1 - Weapon Proficiency (Bastard Sword), Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting, Two-Weapon Fighting Fighter 2 - Weapon Focus (Bastard Sword) From Fighter 2 I suggest heading over to the Scout class. Why? Skirmish is a nice way to get extra damage and mobility, you pick up speed increases, and a TON of useful extra skills. Level 3, Scout 1 - Combat Expertise Level 6, Scout 4 - Dodge, Mobility* (*Bonus feat) After 4 levels of scout you could branch off into the Dervish PrC in Complete Warrior, but I would prefer to go one more level of Scout because while you lose 1 point of attack bonus you gain Evasion and an extra 1d6 on your skirmish damage. Regardless of when you go into Dervish you have another choice to make when you get there. Dervish Dance is very strong, but so is the AC bonus, the lessened two-weapon fighting penalties, and Two-Weapon Spring Attack granted by the Tempest PrC in Complete Adventurer. With 3 levels of Dervish behind you, you can qualify for Tempest gaining Spring Attack and Improved Two-Weapon Fighting. I think I might put off Tempest until I had 5 levels of Dervish under my belt but I like the Speed boosts granted by Dervish and that Dance of Death feature. The build I want to try? Fighter 2/Scout 5/Dervish 5/Tempest 5/Combat Trickster 3. You can play around with it however you like, just make sure to pick up Complete Warrior and Complete Adventurer and weigh your options. Other feats to look at while you're gaining the higher tiers of two-weapon fighting: Two-Weapon Rend, Two-Weapon Pounce, Dual Strike, Greater Skirmish, Two-Weapon Defense (and Improved). Since you have Combat Expertise you could also pick up Improved Trip. That along with Dual Strike equals two free attacks and a prone opponent. Pretty nifty.
doomXL 11-05-07, 02:55 PM	hey I was thinking...what do you think about a monk warblade? I think i like warblade but what class would be good to start as before becoming a warblade
bkdubs123 11-05-07, 03:09 PM	Warblade is the kind of class you want to stick with throughout all your levels, unless you're going for a more specialized role, or for a gish type character. If you want my opinion a Monk does not synergize at all well with a Warblade. If you just want Monk flavor than take levels in Swordsage and Warblade together and shoot for the Master of Nine Prestige class.
doomXL 11-05-07, 03:23 PM	thanks...hey by the way whats a dervish....I know it...i just cant remember...And anyway what should my starting class be if im not a monk?
Rulebook 11-05-07, 04:04 PM	a well-made dervish is an avatar of whirling, spinning, slashing doom. they do thier "Dervish Dance" which (eventually) lets you double your number of attacks, and move while doing it (but you cant attack the same guy twice in a row) they -really- like scimitars, and the class works with just about any slashing weapon (i favor the glaive) its in Complete Warrior, and while not the greatest one-on-one (though still mighty) they cut through mobs like childs play. your first class should be one of these three for it as well... Fighter, Ranger, or swashbuckler. Scout works quite well too, but you'll probably want some fighter in there to beef it too. (ive also seen good results with Barbarians, but they werent twf'ers)
The_Shaman 11-05-07, 04:18 PM	As Rulebook says, the dervish is a warrior PrC from Complete Warrior. It specializes in mobility, including tumbling, and while it works with any slashing weapon, it gets extra options with the good old scimitar. Think Prince of Persia in his newer incarnations. It offers a relatively okay way to get extra mileage out of two-weapon builds as when in a "dance" (might as well call it homicidal flurry, that's what it does) it gives a bonus to attack and damage with any slashing weapon you're currently using. The class is stable, all in all, and is often considered the benchmark of mobile warrior builds/classes. Rulebook is somewhat wrong on the dance mechanics: you can attack the same enemy several times in a row, you just have to move 5 feet for every attack. As you can imagine, this means dervishes excel when they have ample space to duck and weave around their opponent/s. Still, with their virtual skill mastery in jump, tumble and balance, they can move quite freely around the battlefield.
doomXL 11-05-07, 04:21 PM	a dervish eh? well since i have a fighter with incredibly good stats I might have one of them. maybe...a fighter dervish...or a monk dervish...some kinda starting class-dervish....thank you...can you provide some insight...Sorry if im asking for alot I just like experimenting and so far Ive seen bulky dudes with axes are not my things and magic isnt as fun as a good scimitar wielding fast guy.
Rulebook 11-05-07, 04:39 PM	oh right! i forgot about the ol "dance around the enemy" trick! (its been a while since i played a dervish!) but what base class you should take really depends on what kind of dervish you want. Monk: takes a while to get into dervish (+5 bab), but it can SERIOUSLY up the number of attacks you can deliver. kamas work as a light slashing weapon i think, and even if it dont... VERSATILE UNARMED STRIKE. barehanded dervishes could be SUPER cool (and the wis bonus thing would help a lot) Fighter: this is what being a dervish is all about. the Perform(dance) hurts a little, but its doable, and you get all the FEATS that bring you to new levels of awesome Ranger: free twf, favored enemy bonus (if you know what you'll be against), and who knows, a couple spells if you stick around long enough. the d8's i think kinda hurt em as a melee class, but they're solid enough. Swashbuckler: first level of Dervish makes scimitars light weapons + insightful strike, free weapon finesse (though only useful with scimitars once a dervish) also a good selection of skills (including perform!) Bard: Bards make suprisingly good dervishes, because you can sing while you dervish dance. also perform as a class skill means your dervish dances last all freaking day long. Barbarian: even though you cant rage and dance at the same time, it lends a level of versatility you might need. plus faster movement, full BAB, and big ol d12's really really help. Scouts: As long as you dont mind the low BAB, thier fast movement and skirmish make these guys FEARSOME dervishes.
doomXL 11-05-07, 04:59 PM	thanks...what did you mean by +5 bab. what would you reccomend? I didnt know swashbuckeler was a starting class....im going by the 3.5 rules by the way if that makes a difference. maybe swashbuckeler. were you being sarastic about the singing during the dervish dance
bkdubs123 11-05-07, 05:13 PM	Read my post earlier up. The one that outlines an entire dervish build from 1st level on (right before you asked about being a Monk/Warblade). You need to pick up a Copy of Complete Warrior if you want to get the build done right. That's where Dervish is. My build uses the Scout class from Complete Adventurer and the Tempest class also from complete adventurer, so if you want to experiment with it you'll need both complete warrior and complete adventurer.
Rulebook 11-05-07, 05:16 PM	a +5 base attack bonus is one of the pre-reqs for entry into the dervish class. the swashbuckler is one of the new classes introduced in the Complete Warrior (convienently where the Dervish is as well!) the description of dervish dance says a bard can sing during. and personally, it really depends on what you like to play. ive played about 4 dervishes, and they were all different classed. the most fun ive had was with my barbarian/dervish, and the most butt-whuppin ive done was with a Fighter/Scout/Dervish. my Bard/Dervish was just an experiment that went fairly well (i wouldnt reccomend it unless you're either good, or you know your game isnt going to hinge on you) if you're still learning the game, and still really like the dervish (it can be a tough class to master) i'd reccomend a straight fighter/dervish. it'll be the easiest to manage without having to plan out every step you'll be taking
doomXL 11-06-07, 07:08 AM	thank you. I know now what I must do. but can you do this without complete fighters guide? is there like an online resourse that like...you know tells you all the stats and feats...thank you
The_Shaman 11-06-07, 10:41 AM	BTW, didn't dervish dance and Snowflake Wardance bonuses stack? That's another reason bard-dervishes can be quite cool. @ DoomXL: the character optimization boards have a lot of "handbook" threads discussing how to get the best mileage out of different classes and PrCs, and they certainly have one for the dervish. They are probably the best way to optimize your character's potential, but they are rather quirky in that they very much prefer if you post your question according to the forum guidelines. As I said, there are a LOT of base classes, and even more PrCs and combos, that can give you what you want.
Rulebook 11-06-07, 01:24 PM	doom, what books do you have? if you're just running core, just play a ranger or fighter, just flavor yourself better. any idea can be made with any class, remember that. your character is more than his abilities
doomXL 11-06-07, 04:12 PM	I only have core. and by stick to the basics do you mean ranger-dervish or just regular ranger?
bkdubs123 11-06-07, 04:42 PM	Hmm, core only eh... Well, using core only you can a decent damage boost from a Ranger's favored enemy, and/or a rogue's sneak attack. As far as PrCs go you might want to consider the Shadowdancer (DMG) and/or the Duelist (DMG). So you could go with... *bonus feats Human Ranger 1 - Exotic Proficiency (Bastard Sword)*, Weapon Focus (Bastard Sword) Ranger 2 - Two Weapon Fighting* (level 3) Fighter 1 - Oversized Two Weapon Fighting (Now you dual wield katanas)*, Dodge (level 4) Fighter 2 - Mobility (level 5) Ranger 3 (level 6) Ranger 4 - Combat Reflexes (level 7) Ranger 5 (level 8) Ranger 6 - Improved Two Weapon Fighting* From level 9 on you can go Shadowdancer from there to pick up some interesting combat tricks and some of the best mobility options in the game. After Shadowdancer you might consider the Duelist PrC, but you aren't exactly optimized for it by this point. Duelists can't wear armor so you'll really want options that can raise your AC without resorting to armor. Combat Expertise is a must here. If you don't go the Duelist route you can grab all ten levels of Shadowdancer for nice mobility and then go back to some base class (not really sure here. fighter/ranger/rogue won't give you a lot here. honestly maybe barbarian would be the way to go). If you do want to give the Duelist a try grab at least 6 levels of Shadowdancer before you go in order to get Improved Uncanny Dodge and 40ft of shadowjumps. The problem with the Duelist is that its power comes late in the class. You won't see a noticable return for your investment until around level 5, but adding your Int to AC, getting a bit of a damage boost, and then being able to fight defensively for a huge bonus can really help you out (Elaborate Parry at 7th if you get the far). OH! AND I ALMOST FORGOT! While you're picking up feats do not ignore Elusive Target! I hope you can find it online somewhere, because it is such a good feat considering you've already met all the prerequisites! It'll help you stay alive and stay mobile. If you don't like either of those PrCs then don't worry about it. Pick up 6 Ranger levels, 2 Fighter levels and go the rest Rogue. You'll have a great damage output, but you're attack bonus might be a bit lacking. The best way I've found to circumvent this is the Snap Attack feat. It is the exact opposite of Power Attack and requires Dex 13. You can subtract a number from your damage to add to your attack rolls, but you can't subract more than the maximum your weapon can deal -1 (so with a short sword you could subract up to 5 from your damage to add 5 to your attack). I like to grab Snap Attack and Power Attack so I can change it up when I want to hit hard, or when I want to be accurate. Make sure during the Rogue levels you pick up Improved Toughness. Its from Complete Warrior, but you can find it anywhere. It requires a +2 base fortitude save (which you'll have) and gives you hitpoints equal to your current HD and an additional 1 hitpoint every level. That'll help offset your d6 HD as a rogue. Hope I've helped!
The_Shaman 11-06-07, 06:56 PM	Core as only PHB and DMG, core as the SRD material (PHB and UA included), or core + the completes? The dervish, and some of the other options here, are from the complete books. From Core proper, I'd probably go for a fighter build, perhaps with some rogue levels. If the DM accepts PHB II, good, but most don't. Again, if the game is only in core, I'd start with fighter 4/rogue 4, going for TWF/WF/Wspec with short swords: this way you can get the bonuses to both weapons at once, only take -2/-2 to your attacks (oversized TWF is from CAdv, so it might not be allowed), and you get some extra damage on your attack (+2 from wspec, possibly more if you flank/surprise an opponent). You could get ranger instead of either, of course. Just try not to get XP penalties from having your base class levels too far apart. Afterwards, advance TWF, get combat reflexes and possibly advance the combat expertise/improved trip line. Greater WF/Wspec can get a little more attack and damage, but unless you go very heavy on the fighter levels you won't be able to get it. The DMG PrCs are imo a little lacking in that respect. Duelist requires you to wear no armor and only pays if you have an impressive intelligence and dexterity; shadowdancer gives you only medium BAB.
doomXL 11-06-07, 08:22 PM	what book is shadowdancers in? aside from that the ranger/fighter/shadowdancer sounds great. are there any feats or skills in particular I should invest in?
bkdubs123 11-06-07, 09:19 PM	Other than your standard two weapon fighting feats, you'll need lots of hide and move silently ranks which you can pick up from your ranger levels. EDIT: Oh, and the Shadowdancer is in the Dungeon Master's Guide 3.5, as I said above (DMG).