Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Pixieboy 05-07-04, 04:45 AM	OKAY WIZARDS SUX!!! HERE IS MY LATEST DRUIDIC CHARATER FROM ED 3.0. WE DON'T ALLOW COHORTS AND I MADE IT WITH PHB, MM, MM2, DMG, MOTW AND SAF. WE ARE HAVING A DOWNTIME FROM ADVENTURING RIGHT NOW AND I'M STILL MAKING MAGIC ITEMS SO IT LOOKS A LITLLE BLEAK. HERE IT IS: Ganondorf, Emblem of All Evil, Omen of Armageddon, Mutilator of the Living Human Drd10/Beastmaster10 HD: 10d8+20+10d8+20 (130hp) SPEED: 30’ ARMOR CLASS: 10 BASE ATTACK: +14 ATTACKS: I don’t attack SPACE/REACH: 5’ by 5’, 5’ SPECIAL ATTACKS: N/A SPECIAL QUALITIES:Nature Sense, Wild Empathy, Woodland Stride, Trackless Step, Resist Nature’s Lure, Wild Shape, Venom Immunity, Animal intelligence, Empathic Link, Animal Senses, Speak with companions, Inspire Greatness, Animal Companions (82 HD) SAVES: fort:+18 ,ref:+10 ,will:+13 ABILITIES: Str:8, Dex:10, Con:18, Int:10, Wis:16, Cha:18 SKILLS: As if you need them FEATS: Create Infusion, Brachiation, Natural Spell, Blindsight, Improved Iniatitive, Maximise Spell, Skill Focus (AE) ALIGMENT: Neutral Good (MAGIC) ITEMS: 3 Rings of Animal Friendship, Hand of Glory, Club, Dagger, Druidic Cloths OMG I SUX!!! GANONDORF’S ANIMAL COMPANIONS: (All of which receive the following special qualities: Bloodbond, Improved Intelligence, Improved Natural armor, Command Creature’s of Kind) Phoenix Eldrith Iceheart (40/82HD) HD: 20d10+40 (150hp) SPEED: 12ft., fly 200ft. (average) ARMOR CLASS: 29 BASE ATTACK: +20 ATTACKS: 2 claws +23 (1d8+4/19-20), or bite (2d6+4) SPACE/REACH: 10’ by 15’, 5’ SPECIAL ATTACKS: Shriek, Spell like Abilities SPECIAL QUALITIES: Darkvision 60’, Defencive Aura, DR 20/+3, Immolation, LL-vision, Planar Travel, Spell-like Metamagic, SR 35, Telepathy 60’, Uncanny Dodge SAVES: fort:+14 ,ref:+15 ,will:+11 ABILITIES: Str:18, Dex:16, Con:15, Int:18, Wis:17, Cha:21 SKILLS: As if you need them FEATS: Empower Spell, Enlarge Spell, Extend Spell, Flyby Attack, Heighten Spell, Improved Critical (Claw), Improved Iniatitive, Iron Will, Maximize Spell ALIGMENT: Neutral Good (MAGIC) ITEMS: --------------------------------- Awakened Ape Wong Fei Hong, Reaper of Angels Mnk6/Drunken Master10 (20/82HD) HD: 4d8+11+6d8+12+10d8+20 (133 hp) SPEED: 30ft., climb 30ft. ARMOR CLASS: 32 BASE ATTACK: +17 ATTACKS: 2 Claws +25 (1d6+9) and Bite +20 (1d6+4) or Unarmed Strikes(HeavyDamage) SPACE/REACH: 10’ by 10’, 10’ SPECIAL ATTACKS: Flurry of Blows, Ki Strike (Magic), Breath of Flame SPECIAL QUALITIES: LL-vision, Scent, Speed Bonus, Evasion, Still Mind, Slow Fall, Purity of Body, Drink like a Demon, Stagger, Swaying Wasit, Drunken Rage, Lurch, Drunken Embrace, For Medicinal Purposes, Corckscrew Rush SAVES: fort:+19 ,ref:+21 ,will:+14 ABILITIES: Str:28, Dex:22, Con:14, Int:12, Wis:20, Cha:9 SKILLS: As if you need them FEATS: Alertness, Toughness, Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist, Combat Reflexes, Improved Trip, Improved Grapple, Circle Kick, Knockdown, Dodge, Defensive Throw, Great Fortitude ALIGMENT: Lawful Good (MAGIC) ITEMS: Headband of perfect excellence, Ki Straps, Sandal’s of the Tiger’s Leap, Gloves of Fearsome Grip, Ring of Shocking Blows, Monk’s Belt, Mug of Grog, 20 Tankards of Ale ------------------------------------------ Awakened Rat Stuart the Despoiler Drd20 (20/82HD) HD: 20d8 (90 hp) SPEED: 12 ft., swim 15ft., climb 15 ft. ARMOR CLASS: 22 BASE ATTACK: +15 ATTACKS: Bite +19 (1d3-4) SPACE/REACH: 2,5’ by 2,5’, 0’ SPECIAL ATTACKS: N/A SPECIAL QUALITIES: LL-vision, Scent, Nature Sense, Woodland Stride, Wild Empathy, Trackless Step, Resist Nature’s Lure, Wild Shape, Venom Immunity, A Thousand Faces, Timeless Body, Animal Companions (42HD) SAVES: fort:+12 ,ref:+8 ,will:+19 ABILITIES: Str:2, Dex:15, Con:10, Int:10, Wis:25, Cha:5 SKILLS: As if you need them FEATS: Weapon Finesse, Brew Potion, Create Infusion, Maximize Spell, Quicken Spell, Extend Spell, Spell Focus (conjuration), Augment Summoning ALIGMENT: Lawful Good (MAGIC) ITEMS: 2 Rings of Animal Friendship, Periapt of wisdom +6 ------------------------------------- Stuart’s Animal Companions: Awakened Raven Asmodeus the Black Wiz20 (20/44HD) HD: 20d4 (50hp) SPEED: 10 ft., fly 40ft. (average) ARMOR CLASS: 22 BASE ATTACK: +10 ATTACKS: Claws +14 (1d2-5) SPACE/REACH: 2,5’ by 2,5’, 0’ SPECIAL ATTACKS: N/A SPECIAL QUALITIES: LL-vision SAVES: fort:+6 ,ref:+7 ,will:+14 ABILITIES: Str:1, Dex:15, Con:10, Int:28, Wis:14, Cha:8 SKILLS: As if you need them FEATS: Weapon Finesse, Scribe Scroll, Craft Rod, Craft Wondrous Item, Forge Ring, Craft Magic Arms and armor, Craft Construct, Maximize Spell, Quicken Spell, Empower Spell, Improved Iniatitive, Craft Wand ALIGMENT: Lawful Good SPELLS KNOWN: LVL0: All, LVL1:Protection from evil, Mage armor, Mount, Unseen Servant, Comprehend Languages, Identify, True Strike, Charm Person, Magic Missile, Nystul’s Magic Aura, Ray of Enfeeblement, Feather Fall, Jump, LVL2:Summon Swarm, Web, Detect Thoughts, See invisibility, Touch of Idiocy, Darkness, Invisibility, Mirror Image, False Life, Command Undead, Spectral Hand, Fox’s Cunning, Knock, Spider CLimb, LVL3:Dispel Magic, Protection from energy, Arcane Sight, Tongues, Hold Person, Fireball, Lightning Bolt, Blink, Fly, Haste, Keen Edge, Slow, Water Breathing, LVL4:Dimensional Anchor, Stoneskin, Dimension Door, Evard’s Balck Tentacles, Charm Monster, Otiluke’s Resilient Sphere, Greater Invisibility, Animate dead, Enervation, Polymorph, LVL5:Break Enchantment, Cloudkill, Teleport, Dominate Person, Feebelemind, Hold Monster, Magic Jar, Permanency, LVL6:Antimagic Field, Greater Dispel Magic, Repulsion, Planar Bingding, Legend Lore, True Seeing, Quest, Contingency, Permanent Image, Create Undead, Circle of Death, Disintegrate, Tenser’s Transformation , LVL7:Spell Turning, Greater Teleport, Mass Hold Person, Insanity, Symbol of Stunning, Forcecage, Prismatic Spray, Simulacrum, Control Undead, Finger of Death, Ethreal Jaunt, Reverse Gravity , LVL8:Dimensional Lock, Mind Blank, Maze, Trap the Soul, Binding, Antipathy, Mass Charm Monster, Otto’s Irressistible Dance, Power Word Stun, Clone, LVL9: Freedom, Imprisonment, Mordenkainen’s Disjunction, Summon Monster 9, Time Stop, Shapechange, Wish (MAGIC) ITEMS: Headband of intellect +6 --------------------------------------- Awakened Toad Ansem the Seeker of Darkness Clr15/Thaumaturgist5 (20/42HD) HD: 15d8+5d4 (80hp) SPEED: 5ft. ARMOR CLASS: 15 BASE ATTACK: +13 ATTACKS: N/A SPACE/REACH: 1’ by 1’, 0’ SPECIAL ATTACKS: N/A SPECIAL QUALITIES: Amphibious, LL-vision, Turn Undead, Improved Ally, Extended Summoning, Contingent Conjuration, Planar Cohort, Spell Focus (Conjuration), SAVES: fort:+10 ,ref:+7 ,will:+20 ABILITIES: Str:1, Dex:12, Con:11, Int:10, Wis:25, Cha:6 SKILLS: As if you need them FEATS: Alertness, Augment Summoning, Spell Penetration, Greater Spell Penetration, Quicken Spell, Scribe Scrolls, Extend Spell ALIGMENT: Lawful Good (MAGIC) ITEMS: Periapt of wisdom +6, Phylactery of Undead Turning ----------------------------------- Ansem’s Planar Ally: Redeemed Greater Barghest Ahriman, Devourer of Souls Fght9 HD: 9d8+27+9d8+27 (134hp) SPEED: 40ft. ARMOR CLASS: 20 BASE ATTACK: +18 ATTACKS: Bite +24 (1d8+6) and 2 Claws +19 (1d6+3) or +30/+25/+20 Magic Weapon SPACE/REACH: 10’ by 10’, 5’ SPECIAL ATTACKS: Spell-like abilities, Feed SPECIAL QUALITIES: Change Shape, Damage Reduction 10/Magic, Darkvision 60’, Scent SAVES: fort:+15,ref:+11,will:+13 ABILITIES: Str:22, Dex:15, Con:16, Int:18, Wis:18, Cha:18 SKILLS: As if you need them FEATS: Combat Casting, Combat Reflexes, Improved Iniatitve, Track, Combat Expertise, Power Attack, Cleave, Weapon Focus (Great Sword), Weapon Specialization (Great Sword), Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Whirlwind Attack, Improved Trip ALIGMENT: Lawful Good (MAGIC) ITEMS: +5 Holy Vorpal Greatsword (3d6+16)
Advanced 05-07-04, 07:30 AM	You sir are a fool. Quit Trolling.
Pixieboy 05-07-04, 07:38 AM	I WAS JUST POINTING OUT TO ALL THOSE WHO THINKS WIZARDS RULE AND MAKE NEW THREADS EVERYDAY LIKE SHOULD WE NERF THE WIZZIES THAT THE DRUID IS THE MOST POWERFULL CLASS SINCE IT CAN CREATE AN EXPONENTIALLY INCREASING LINE OF PLAYABLE CHARACTERS AT THE EARLIEST POINT OF THE GAME BY GIVING DRUID LEVELS TO AN AWAKENED ANIMAL COMPANIONS WHICH THEN TAKE ANIMAL COMPANIONS OF THEIR OWN AND DO THE SAME TO THEM. -->WHICH WILL DUE TO THE ENDLESS MULTITUDE OF PLANES WHERE YOU CAN TAKE ANIMALS LEADING TO THE FACT THAT YOU WILL HAVE AN UNLIMITED NUMBER OF PLAYBLE CHARACTERS WHICH WILL EVENTUALLY LEAD TO A SITUATION WHERE ALL YOUR ROLLS ARE 20 AND THE WIZARDS 1 SO THE WIZARDS LOSES.
Sensei Gith 05-07-04, 07:45 AM	1. It doesn't work. 2. It's nothing new. 3. Even if it worked, no DM would allow it. 4. No one will read it anyway.
Pixieboy 05-07-04, 07:47 AM	LOL 1.IT'S BY THE BOOK 2.NO, BECAUSE I INVENTED IT ALREADY LAST WEEK 3.I ALREADY DID 4.YOU READ IT.
Zelphi 05-07-04, 07:59 AM	Doesn't PWK defeat most of them, then there's Symbols and Weirds and the like... and why are you constantly posting in caps?
jokotoko 05-07-04, 08:02 AM	Dude..you suck...right after I read the part of "who needs skills anyway?" I decided to block you....have a nice life....
UndeadPenguin 05-07-04, 08:03 AM	Edit- I am too good to post here. This is a pathetic attempt at powergaming.
Thorak 05-07-04, 08:05 AM	Ahh. Reasons 3.0 had problems. In 3.5 at least; Awakened critters can't be animal companions. You only get one animal companion. Rings of animal friendship in no way affect or grant additional animal companions. It allows you to Charm Animal at will, which has a duration, and a save. And nothing in either version grants Awakened animals classes, nor does it let a druid set them for their animal companions, when they are awakened. I also (though it's not in MOTW, the DMG, or the 3.0 SRD) suspect the Phoenix is a Magical Beast at least. Animal companions have to be Animals. Though perhaps there's something about the Beastmaster I don't know; I assume it's in S&F, which I don't have access to. I'll also point out that while technically there might be nothing wrong with your monk-ape, some of your other critters are in trouble with their classes. You need to be able to hold material components and gesture to cast spells. You need hands for both. So your druid-rat, mage-raven, and mage-toad all can't cast spells. I originally thought the rat could get around it by Wildshaping into a human, but then I remembered that Wildshape only lets you become an animal, not a humanoid. Though I suppose he could take Natural Spell, if you were using 3.5, though he still would only be able to cast when in a wildshape form, not his natural rat form. But a quick check reveals you haven't given any of the three caster animals any ability to do so. So none of your three caster animals can actually cast anything.
Zelphi 05-07-04, 08:07 AM	You've also got to get them to that state, by that time anyone else has already outstripped you.
Pixieboy 05-07-04, 08:33 AM	SO DRAGONS CAN'T CAST SPELLS BECAUSE THEY ARE TOO FUMBLE TO HANDLE MATERIAL COMPONENTS AND SOMATIC COMPONENTS?
Sensei Gith 05-07-04, 08:34 AM	Jokoto and Penguin, you both have the right of it. I'm gone.
Pixieboy 05-07-04, 08:45 AM	LOL IF ABOLETHS, LAMMASUS, COUATLS, SPIRIT NAGAS, UNICORN CELESTIAL CHARGERS AND DRAGONS CAN CAST SPELLS WITH NO PROBLEMS SO CAN MY AWAKENED ANIMALS.
q'afuu 05-07-04, 10:29 AM	Originally posted by Pixieboy SO DRAGONS CAN'T CAST SPELLS BECAUSE THEY ARE TOO FUMBLE TO HANDLE MATERIAL COMPONENTS AND SOMATIC COMPONENTS? What material components? The ones your toad is carrying in a backpack and can't get out? Sure your animals can cast - but if the spell requires material components, that's going to be difficult. You seem to very easily ignore all the other points made, btw. Also, you can't benefit from more than two magical rings at once. Oh, and individual animal companions can't have more HD than the druid character they're a companion to.
Zelphi 05-07-04, 10:32 AM	Aren't most of those spell like abilities, making them - not spells, but spell like... hence being called spell like abilities? Generally they have to have still spell and the like, or some beast like variation (Demi-liches get Perfect Still and Silent spell - and need it), none of yours do. Still ... Timestop - PWK and the odd Meteor Swarm should work easy.
Pixieboy 05-07-04, 10:41 AM	WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE??? THE HAND OF GLORY FROM DMG ALLOWS ME TO WEAR A THIRD RING IN MY NECK. ABOLETHS, LAMMASUS, COUATLS, SPIRIT NAGAS, UNICORN CELESTIAL CHARGERS THESE ONES AREN'T (ONLY) USING SPELL-LIKE ABILITIES BUT HAVE BEEN (IN THE 3.5 MM) GIVEN CLASS LEVELS IN WIZARD/SORCERER/CLERIC REQUIRING ALL THE COMPONENTS THAT HUMANS CASTERS REQUIRE (SOMATIC/VOCAL/FOCUS/MATERIAL) NOT ALL OF THEM HAVE METAMAGIC FEATS AND STILL THE BOOK IMPLIES THAT THEY CAN CAST SPELLS QUITE ALRIGHT EVEN IF THEY ONLY HAVE HOOVES/ NO BODILY PROTRUSIONS AT ALL. "What material components? The ones your toad is carrying in a backpack and can't get out?" SO WHERE DO YOU THINK A COUATL OR AN ABOLETH / UNICORN CELESTIAL CHARGER IS GOING TO KEPP/DRAW THEM OUT? "Sure your animals can cast - but if the spell requires material components, that's going to be difficult." SAME "You seem to very easily ignore all the other points made, btw. Also, you can't benefit from more than two magical rings at once. Oh, and individual animal companions can't have more HD than the druid character they're a companion to." SO IS THERE A PROBLEM??? I'M LVL 20 SO MY ANIMAL COMPANIONS CAN HAVE 20 HD. THE PHOENIX HAS 20. THE RAT HAS 20. THE TOAD HAS 20. THE RAVEN HAS 20. THE MONKEY HAS 20 (4 BASE AND 16 CLASS)
Pixieboy 05-07-04, 10:44 AM	"Still ... Timestop - PWK and the odd Meteor Swarm should work easy." AS EASILY AS AGAINST ANY CHARACTER BUT WHERE AS OTHERS HAVE TO RELY ON THEMSELVES I HAVE 3 MAGES OF MY OWN COUNTERING/DISPELLING THEM.
Zelphi 05-07-04, 10:49 AM	If they're even valid characters... Why didn't you adress that issue? Then you'll see that Thorak's point kinda shoot you down... Wizard/Rogue/Azn/ArcaneTrickster... recon I'd pawn you anyway.
Zelphi 05-07-04, 10:53 AM	Also, I don't know the Beastmaster class, but last time I checked 3.0 you couldn't get multiple animal companions that equaled your character level. They had to be at least half?
Pixieboy 05-07-04, 10:54 AM	IN FACT I HAVE ADDRESSED EVERY ISSUE AT HAND. TO THORAKS'S POST. I'M PLAYING 3.0 ANIMAL COMPANIONS CAN BE AWAKENED. THE PHOENIX IS A MAGICAL BEAST WHICH MY TAMER OF BEATS LVL 10 CAN BEFRIEND. ABOUT THE SPELL CASTING READ THE EDITED ABOVE POST,
Zelphi 05-07-04, 10:56 AM	Do they get classes then? Still think i'd beat you anyway... not that I care, I've always liked Druids.
Pixieboy 05-07-04, 10:58 AM	THE BEASTMASTER CLASS GIVES YOU 2HD PER CASTER LVL OF ANIMAL FRIENDSHIP PLUS 2HD PER LVL OF THE CLASS. SINCE IT GIVES YOU 3 CASTER LEVELS. YOUR DRUID10/TAMER10 IS ABLE TO BEFRIEND 13*2+10*2=46HD OF ANIMAL COMPANIONS NONE OF WICH CAN CAN HAVE MORE HD THAN YOUR CHARACTER LVL. THE 3 RINGS OF ANIMAL FRIENDSHIP ONE OF WHICH HANGS IN THE HAND OF GLORY GIVE ME AN ADDITIONAL OF 12*3=36 SO MY TOTAL NOW IS 46+36 WHICH IS 82HD THE PHOENIX AS A MAGICAL BEAST COUNTS AS 40HD FOR THAT TOTAL BEFRIEND LIMIT BUT I CAN STILL KEEP IT SINCE IT'S CREATURE HD IS NOT OVER MY CHARACTER LVL.
Pixieboy 05-07-04, 11:00 AM	SURE YOU'D BEAT ME BUT THIS CLASS STILL PWNS THE WIZARDS WHICH WAS MY AIN POINT FOR ALL THOSE SUCKY WE MUST NERF THE WIZARDS THREADS
Pixieboy 05-07-04, 11:01 AM	AND BY TAH WAY THORAK IN 3.5 I DON'T NEED TO AWAKEN THEM SINCE FROM TAMER OF BEASTS FROM 10 LVLS MY ANIMAL COMPANIONS ARE GOING TO HAVE A MINIMUM INTELLIGENCE OF 12 AS A CLASS FEATURE.
q'afuu 05-07-04, 11:22 AM	Originally posted by Pixieboy 1) Awakened Ape Wong Fei Hong, Reaper of Angels Mnk6/Drunken Master10 (20/82HD) 2) Awakened Rat Stuart the Despoiler Drd20 (20/82HD) 3) Awakened Raven Asmodeus the Black Wiz20 (20/44HD) 4) Awakened Toad Ansem the Seeker of Darkness Clr15/Thaumaturgist5 (20/42HD) 1) 16 HD from class levels + 4 racial +2 Awakened = 22. 2) 20 HD from class levels + 2 Awakened = 22 3) 20 HD from class levels + 2 Awakaned = 22 4) 20 HD from class levels + 2 Awakened = 22 Starting to see a pattern?
Thorak 05-07-04, 12:10 PM	Originally posted by Pixieboy AND BY TAH WAY THORAK IN 3.5 I DON'T NEED TO AWAKEN THEM SINCE FROM TAMER OF BEASTS FROM 10 LVLS MY ANIMAL COMPANIONS ARE GOING TO HAVE A MINIMUM INTELLIGENCE OF 12 AS A CLASS FEATURE. Except that Tamer of Beasts is a 3.0 prestige class that doesn't work in 3.5, because they completely changed how animal companions work and that's what the PrC is based on. Technically, that same intelligence boost makes them magical beasts, not animals. Meaning, in 3.5, they would cease to be animal companions at all when you took your first Tamer of Beasts level. Not to mention intelligence isn't necessarily enough for a critter to earn class levels. And you still haven't answered my point about animals being incapable of casting spells. You mention a few critters that can cast spells, and they're all relatively powerful. However, they're exceptions to the usual rule. I'll have to use the 3.5 definition, but I doubt the 3.0 definition was much different; Somatic: A somatic component is a measured and precise movement of the hand. You must have at least one free hand to provide a somatic component. When you show how animals have hands, I'll admit they can cast spells. As it stands, the rules state you need one free hand to cast anything with a somatic component. Of course, you could use Stilled Spells and the Eschew Materials feat to get around that not having a hand bit, but I notice those are two feats none of your critters have. Saying "But this monster can do it!" is a bad argument. I can just as easily say "But a Thri-kreen has 4 arms!" to prove that my human has 4 arms. See? It's completely illogical.
Pixieboy 05-07-04, 01:04 PM	Originally posted by q'afuu 1) 16 HD from class levels + 4 racial +2 Awakened = 22. 2) 20 HD from class levels + 2 Awakened = 22 3) 20 HD from class levels + 2 Awakaned = 22 4) 20 HD from class levels + 2 Awakened = 22 Starting to see a pattern? No since I changed the +2 HD into CLASS LEVELS. IF IT*S IMPORTANT TO YOU I CAN TAKE 2 CLASS LEVELS OUT FROM THEM. Originally posted by Thorak Except that Tamer of Beasts is a 3.0 prestige class that doesn't work in 3.5, because they completely changed how animal companions work and that's what the PrC is based on. Technically, that same intelligence boost makes them magical beasts, not animals. Meaning, in 3.5, they would cease to be animal companions at all when you took your first Tamer of Beasts level. WotC has stated that all the splat books are usable in 3.5 ED. It does make them magical animals not only technicly but as they say in the class descriptions they still count as animals for all purposes of the druid. "Not to mention intelligence isn't necessarily enough for a critter to earn class levels. " By the book it is.. "And you still haven't answered my point about animals being incapable of casting spells. You mention a few critters that can cast spells, and they're all relatively powerful. However, they're exceptions to the usual rule. I'll have to use the 3.5 definition, but I doubt the 3.0 definition was much different;" Your main argument here, is that my animal comps have no hands. Now you counteract your own point by saying that being powerful (the critters I mentioned) can make you cast spells without hands. Aren't my lvl 20 (or18 as you wish) animals powerfull? "When you show how animals have hands, I'll admit they can cast spells. As it stands, the rules state you need one free hand to cast anything with a somatic component. Of course, you could use Stilled Spells and the Eschew Materials feat to get around that not having a hand bit, but I notice those are two feats none of your critters have." If you go by this you are saying that the critters I mentioned can't cast spells. "Saying "But this monster can do it!" is a bad argument. I can just as easily say "But a Thri-kreen has 4 arms!" to prove that my human has 4 arms. See? It's completely illogical. " This was more stupid than my comments. Can't admit that you were utterly totally completely wrong on the rules, eh? lol
q'afuu 05-07-04, 01:09 PM	Originally posted by Pixieboy 1) No since I changed the +2 HD into CLASS LEVELS. 2) IF IT*S IMPORTANT TO YOU I CAN TAKE 2 CLASS LEVELS OUT FROM THEM. 1) Which you can't do by the rules. 2) It's not important to me. I'm just pointing out your build is not conform with the rules.
poulin76 05-07-04, 01:58 PM	Originally posted by Pixieboy Ganondorf, Emblem of All Evil, Omen of Armageddon, Mutilator of the Living Human Drd10/Beastmaster10 Ganondorf ?!? man, can't you use a name you didn't stole from a video game ? Somewhere along the player's handbook they specifically discourage people from ripping name. Ain't ganon a cheezy legend of zelda bad guy (final boss if i remember my gaming days correctly). You sir should really start to use your IMAGINATION ! (readl imagination with echo in your voice and big gleamy eyes. Yeah, like spongebob does in one of his show). IMAGINATION (echo again, bla bla bla) is a sure way to stop acting like a troll. I mean, "no caps" in the title and first ting you know, he's using caps... damn... How lame can this get. Well, it,s been fun flaming a troll a bit, but i got some constructive tough to post somewhere else. Oh, and just FYI, up to now I used pretty much every class in the books (even the oriental adventure shaman) and I managed to make real cool and strong char. With average stats too ! (some high and many low). I even made a paladin arse kicking bard. And they were equivalent levels. So "my char is better than yours" always depend on the situation and your char planning. Altough i'm forced to admin that the awakened toad is kinda neat. Not sure how usefull it can be, but i'm sure it got a great personnality lol No seriously, I can picture your char (with a un-original-totally-ripped name) having a conversation with his toad in a bar... :D :D Have fun (and get a life) :D
Tsuul 05-07-04, 02:57 PM	If thats how you play then at 6th level a wizard can make a truestrike sword and give it to his cohort to use to destroy the dro0d before he ever gets to do this crazy crud. WiZaDz = teh win But only if you play the game shou-lin-broken style.
Thorak 05-07-04, 05:33 PM	Originally posted by Pixieboy WotC has stated that all the splat books are usable in 3.5 ED. It does make them magical animals not only technicly but as they say in the class descriptions they still count as animals for all purposes of the druid. Fine. Use the PrC. Once you get your first level, and the animal companions become magical beasts instead, they're no longer animal companions. Animal companions in 3.5 have to have the animal type. And his Magical Beast Mastery is entirely useless. Because Animal Friendship no longer exists. So you can't legally have the Phoenix as an animal companion in 3.5 either, at least not with that PrC. I'm sure you could houserule to allow these. But those are houserules, and as such aren't any basis for discussing how l33t your druid is. Any more than my "I get to have any 5 templates for free" houserule would. "And you still haven't answered my point about animals being incapable of casting spells. You mention a few critters that can cast spells, and they're all relatively powerful. However, they're exceptions to the usual rule. I'll have to use the 3.5 definition, but I doubt the 3.0 definition was much different;" Your main argument here, is that my animal comps have no hands. Now you counteract your own point by saying that being powerful (the critters I mentioned) can make you cast spells without hands. Aren't my lvl 20 (or18 as you wish) animals powerfull? Are they powerful by virtue of their inherent race? No. Are they an explicit exemption to the standard rules? No. Animals can't cast spells requiring somatic components unless they Still them, and none of your animals have that feat. "When you show how animals have hands, I'll admit they can cast spells. As it stands, the rules state you need one free hand to cast anything with a somatic component. Of course, you could use Stilled Spells and the Eschew Materials feat to get around that not having a hand bit, but I notice those are two feats none of your critters have." If you go by this you are saying that the critters I mentioned can't cast spells. No, I'm saying they're explicit exemptions to the rules. Just because a monster can do it doesn't mean a PC of an entirely different species can too. And the Tamer of Beasts isn't explicit exemptions; it's based on an outdated Animal Companion mechanic revolving around Animal Friendship. I've even been giving you the benefit of the doubt on it, because you're playing 3.0 and thus it would apply. But even in 3.0, animals can't perform somatic components. "Saying "But this monster can do it!" is a bad argument. I can just as easily say "But a Thri-kreen has 4 arms!" to prove that my human has 4 arms. See? It's completely illogical. " This was more stupid than my comments. Can't admit that you were utterly totally completely wrong on the rules, eh? lol I don't see any difference between saying "I can have 4 arms because a thri-kreen does!" and saying "I can cast spells without hands, because an aboleth does!" Both are assuming that because a monster has a special ability, it's available for free to every other creature. Yes, my example was inherently 'more stupid' than yours, but that was intended to point out how stupid your assumption was in the first place. If mine is 'more stupid', than yours is by assumption 'less stupid', and thus still stupid. And since semantically, they're the same thing, it's just as ridiculous. I've been pretty open about the fact that I'm limited in my knowledge of 3.0. I can prove you're utterly ridiculously wrong in 3.5, but I've been trying to show the inconsistencies even within 3.0. Again, show that animals have hands, and I'll allow that your animals can cast non-stilled spells.
Aluroon 05-07-04, 07:59 PM	OMFG! :OMG! :OMG! :OMG! I WANT MY 20 MINUTES BACK! I cannot belive that I just wasted 20 minutes of my life on a post that is so incredobly redicullus. I would point out why but A. Thorak has already done that several times. B. It would waste more of my time C. You would just use my words out of context like you have done to everyone else and pick apart each word outside of the arguemnt it was placed in D. This character would never be allowed into any game, EVER!. There is no way anyone will ever allow a level twenty character with a large number of broken level 20 creatures with him into a game. E. Well looking back real quick I nodiced that someone pointed out you cant have awakened animal compainions in 3.5, so there for all your arguments about why your character would be 3.5 adaptable are null and void. Adue, fool Aluroon
NightScreamer20 05-08-04, 08:21 AM	Wow...um...no...just this thread is null. Next: How do you have 3 rings of animal friendship? You know how? You don't. Plus how would this help you at all? Oh wait it doesn't. Again: null. All your creatures need Natural Spell in order to cast spells. Animals companions ARE CHANGED in 3.5 and therefore the PrC would be completely changed! It WONT WORK. Even in 3E it just WONT WORK. Your animal companions can be NO MORE than TWICE your HD. That means the MOST HS your animal companions can have in total at 20th level is 40. No creature can have more HD than you. Magical beasts count as TWICE their HD, so you can have no more than 20 HD worth of Magical Beasts as Companions. You are mixing 3.0 AND 3.5...if you're following 1 set of rules THAN YOU FOLLOW THAT SET! And I have proven that in EITHER rule set you idea is BROKEN AND IMPOSSIBLE. You are a powergaming munchkin who need to be shot in the face with a hammer and beaten brutally with the DMG.
Zelphi 05-08-04, 09:08 AM	As been said, numer of issues. 1. 3.0 Animal Friendship.. As stated - Only your HD for an adventuring Druid. So 20 HD creatures for you then 2. Awaken adds 2HD, so only 18HD Creatures... 3. Levels + Effective Character Level = Greater levels than you can handle 4. Experience tables How much experience does it take to get all those companions upto those levels? Because if you're fighting a Wizard with the same amount then you're screwed 5. Use 3.5 and you're naffed. One has to wonder, if people are talking about nerfing the Wizard in 3.5, then why are you using a dodgy 3.0 character to show them up? 6. The Wizard levels some of your characters are Wizards, odd huh? 7. If you don't use all those books, then you're screwed If you do use extra caster books, then you're screwed and outclassed. 8. Nothing in Awaken says they can actually start to take levels. And as stated before, you've then got to get them to that level.
Cross Hatch 05-08-04, 09:24 AM	You know, it takes an awful lot of exp to raise all those beasts to 20th level. I wonder what level the Druid would be if he didn't have to divert some of the exp to those creatures. (of course, this is taking, just for the sake of the arguement, that everything else is legal)
WizO_Catoblepas 05-08-04, 12:50 PM	There is way too much trolling and baiting going on in this thread. Thus, time to close the thread. In the future, please keep the posts to the subject matter of the thread, not other guests. Thanks.