Abjurant Champion. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Abjurant Champion. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Iliyan
08-11-07, 04:22 AM How many swift actions can you have in one round?

And, does this rule apply only to Abjurant Champion level, or CL, or Character Level?

"The maximum level of spell you can quicken in this
way is equal to 1/2 your class level (rounded up)."

Thank you.
andinel
08-11-07, 05:02 AM You have 1 swift action per turn (not round, but it's really the same unless you can get multiple turns in a single round). I'm not sure if there are any ways to get more swift actions per round, though.
Paitlan
08-11-07, 06:12 AM I have another question about the Abjurant Champion

It states that it relies on spells like Mage Armor and Shield.

But according to PHB Mage Armor is a conjuration spell. (Is there an errata?, and if so please point me to it, thx)

If not how can their sample encounter get +9 armor with Mage armor it shouldn't be affected by the Abjurant Armor feature.
Pentagram
08-11-07, 08:53 AM Although Abjurant Champion relies on Mage Armor (to avoid arcane spell failure), the Mage Armor spell is a conjuration spell and does not benefit from the Abjurant Armor class feature. The example character has his AC miscalculated and should have an AC of 19, not 24.

And to answer an earlier question; if a class ability refers to "class levels" it means levels in the class that grants the given ability, unless otherwise noted. A 5th level Abjurant Champion can quicken up to 3rd level abjuration spells and whatevel levels he has in other classes don't matter.
zorgling25
08-11-07, 08:55 AM You have 1 swift action per turn (not round, but it's really the same unless you can get multiple turns in a single round). I'm not sure if there are any ways to get more swift actions per round, though.

As a useful addendum, if you use an immediate action, it goes against your NEXT turn's swift action.
LoneFlame
08-11-07, 12:00 PM And sadly, I've learned that Quickened Spells are now swift actions(and apparently have been so for quite some time), which sucks cause I liked the idea of having the potential to cast 3 spells in one round.
OneWinged4ngel
08-11-07, 02:42 PM And sadly, I've learned that Quickened Spells are now swift actions(and apparently have been so for quite some time), which sucks cause I liked the idea of having the potential to cast 3 spells in one round.

You still can cast 3 spells (or more!) in one round. Remember, Immediate uses your *next* round's swift action.
Tempest Stormwind
08-11-07, 02:53 PM 1) Even when quickened spells were "free" actions, they were still limited to 1/round.

2) The current spells-in-one-round record was "more spells than you can possibly have per day". As of January 2006, it was 4778 spells in one round. Nowadays, the proper answer to "how many spells can you cast in one round" is "all of them (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=777565)."

3) The Abjurant Champion: proof that designers don't bother to double-check the rules first. (It would be like making a summoning class that assumes summoning is evocation.)

4) You can think of the round structure like this:
A) during any round, you have a swift, a standard, and a move action.
B) You can combine the standard and move to take a full-round action.
C) You can spend the standard action to take another move action.
D) If you use an immediate action on your turn, it counts as your swift action.
E) If you use an immediate action when it isn't your turn, it counts as NEXT turn's swift action.

Swifts first showed up in the Miniatures Handbook, with a few swift spells that were later reprinted in Complete Adventurer, and notably the Marshal (changing auras was a swift action). Quicken was changed to a swift action here, and Feather Fall was changed to a swift action that could be taken at any time.

Immediates were introduced in the Expanded Psionics Handbook, likely to replace the clunky rules text of the 3.0 psionic defense modes. Several "counter"-style powers were written with the immediate action in mind, most of which were conversions of the old defense modes. At the time, Feather Fall was revised to an immediate action.

Since then, nearly every book has used those action types, mostly for spells since everything else was spoken for. The Tome of Battle extended it to include melee.

The fact that you only have one swift action per round is a major balancing point; try playing a martial adept in particular and you'll see just how much effort you need to spend on choosing what to use that swift action for. (Psions and prepared wizards work the same way.)

To date, there is EXACTLY one method of gettng additional swift actions (in particular; I'm not talking about get-another-full-turn effects): Divine Impetus, an ability of the Ruby Knight Vindicator prestige class in the Tome of Battle. It's powered by turn undead attempts, which basically means it isn't balanced at all, especially if nightsticks are allowed in the game.
StruckingFuggle
08-11-07, 05:01 PM 1) Even when quickened spells were "free" actions, they were still limited to 1/round.

But if they weren't swift actions, even if they were 1/round, you'd be able to cast a Quickened Spell and then a Swift spell, or an Immediate spell and then a quickened spell next round, or do something else other than cast a spell that's a swift action (say, initiate a counter).

To date, there is EXACTLY one method of gettng additional swift actions (in particular; I'm not talking about get-another-full-turn effects): Divine Impetus, an ability of the Ruby Knight Vindicator prestige class in the Tome of Battle. It's powered by turn undead attempts, which basically means it isn't balanced at all, especially if nightsticks are allowed in the game.

That's mostly, 99% true, but there's also a Setting Sun stance (AFB at the moment but I don't know the exact one) that gives you the ability to, IIRC, initiate one boost or counter a round and not have it "count" against your "one swift action a round" limit. It barely counts, but it's a way of sometimes getting more than one swift action a round.

Technically.

Please don't smite me.
Tempest Stormwind
08-11-07, 05:07 PM Relax, I don't smite.

But if they weren't swift actions, even if they were 1/round, you'd be able to cast a Quickened Spell and then a Swift spell, or an Immediate spell and then a quickened spell next round, or do something else other than cast a spell that's a swift action (say, initiate a counter).

Except the moment the swift action was introduced, Quicken was no longer free. You can't have both.

Pre-swifts, the best you could do without using spells that granted more actions (Haste being obvious choice from 3.0) was two per round. Post-swifts, the best you can get without similar spells is two per round (swift+standard). Post-immediates, you could still only get two per round, but every so often you could decide to steal from the future and use a third in one round (at the cost of only one the next round).

That's mostly, 99% true, but there's also a Setting Sun stance (AFB at the moment but I don't know the exact one) that gives you the ability to, IIRC, initiate one boost or counter a round and not have it "count" against your "one swift action a round" limit. It barely counts, but it's a way of sometimes getting more than one swift action a round.

Stance of Alacrity, Diamond Mind 8, and it doesn't give you extra swifts at all. Rather, it says that your first counter of the round doesn't count as an immediate action. Thus, you could counter an attack and cast Feather Fall in the same round, for instance. It's more a matter of changing action types rather than granting additional swifts.

If it granted additional swifts, you could use it for multiple boosts, for instance. Which would lead to even sicker Spank the Monkey builds (even though that was recently shot down on the WRT front).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Iliyan 08-11-07, 04:22 AM	How many swift actions can you have in one round? And, does this rule apply only to Abjurant Champion level, or CL, or Character Level? "The maximum level of spell you can quicken in this way is equal to 1/2 your class level (rounded up)." Thank you.
andinel 08-11-07, 05:02 AM	You have 1 swift action per turn (not round, but it's really the same unless you can get multiple turns in a single round). I'm not sure if there are any ways to get more swift actions per round, though.
Paitlan 08-11-07, 06:12 AM	I have another question about the Abjurant Champion It states that it relies on spells like Mage Armor and Shield. But according to PHB Mage Armor is a conjuration spell. (Is there an errata?, and if so please point me to it, thx) If not how can their sample encounter get +9 armor with Mage armor it shouldn't be affected by the Abjurant Armor feature.
Pentagram 08-11-07, 08:53 AM	Although Abjurant Champion relies on Mage Armor (to avoid arcane spell failure), the Mage Armor spell is a conjuration spell and does not benefit from the Abjurant Armor class feature. The example character has his AC miscalculated and should have an AC of 19, not 24. And to answer an earlier question; if a class ability refers to "class levels" it means levels in the class that grants the given ability, unless otherwise noted. A 5th level Abjurant Champion can quicken up to 3rd level abjuration spells and whatevel levels he has in other classes don't matter.
zorgling25 08-11-07, 08:55 AM	You have 1 swift action per turn (not round, but it's really the same unless you can get multiple turns in a single round). I'm not sure if there are any ways to get more swift actions per round, though. As a useful addendum, if you use an immediate action, it goes against your NEXT turn's swift action.
LoneFlame 08-11-07, 12:00 PM	And sadly, I've learned that Quickened Spells are now swift actions(and apparently have been so for quite some time), which sucks cause I liked the idea of having the potential to cast 3 spells in one round.
OneWinged4ngel 08-11-07, 02:42 PM	And sadly, I've learned that Quickened Spells are now swift actions(and apparently have been so for quite some time), which sucks cause I liked the idea of having the potential to cast 3 spells in one round. You still can cast 3 spells (or more!) in one round. Remember, Immediate uses your next round's swift action.
Tempest Stormwind 08-11-07, 02:53 PM	1) Even when quickened spells were "free" actions, they were still limited to 1/round. 2) The current spells-in-one-round record was "more spells than you can possibly have per day". As of January 2006, it was 4778 spells in one round. Nowadays, the proper answer to "how many spells can you cast in one round" is "all of them (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=777565)." 3) The Abjurant Champion: proof that designers don't bother to double-check the rules first. (It would be like making a summoning class that assumes summoning is evocation.) 4) You can think of the round structure like this: A) during any round, you have a swift, a standard, and a move action. B) You can combine the standard and move to take a full-round action. C) You can spend the standard action to take another move action. D) If you use an immediate action on your turn, it counts as your swift action. E) If you use an immediate action when it isn't your turn, it counts as NEXT turn's swift action. Swifts first showed up in the Miniatures Handbook, with a few swift spells that were later reprinted in Complete Adventurer, and notably the Marshal (changing auras was a swift action). Quicken was changed to a swift action here, and Feather Fall was changed to a swift action that could be taken at any time. Immediates were introduced in the Expanded Psionics Handbook, likely to replace the clunky rules text of the 3.0 psionic defense modes. Several "counter"-style powers were written with the immediate action in mind, most of which were conversions of the old defense modes. At the time, Feather Fall was revised to an immediate action. Since then, nearly every book has used those action types, mostly for spells since everything else was spoken for. The Tome of Battle extended it to include melee. The fact that you only have one swift action per round is a major balancing point; try playing a martial adept in particular and you'll see just how much effort you need to spend on choosing what to use that swift action for. (Psions and prepared wizards work the same way.) To date, there is EXACTLY one method of gettng additional swift actions (in particular; I'm not talking about get-another-full-turn effects): Divine Impetus, an ability of the Ruby Knight Vindicator prestige class in the Tome of Battle. It's powered by turn undead attempts, which basically means it isn't balanced at all, especially if nightsticks are allowed in the game.
StruckingFuggle 08-11-07, 05:01 PM	1) Even when quickened spells were "free" actions, they were still limited to 1/round. But if they weren't swift actions, even if they were 1/round, you'd be able to cast a Quickened Spell and then a Swift spell, or an Immediate spell and then a quickened spell next round, or do something else other than cast a spell that's a swift action (say, initiate a counter). To date, there is EXACTLY one method of gettng additional swift actions (in particular; I'm not talking about get-another-full-turn effects): Divine Impetus, an ability of the Ruby Knight Vindicator prestige class in the Tome of Battle. It's powered by turn undead attempts, which basically means it isn't balanced at all, especially if nightsticks are allowed in the game. That's mostly, 99% true, but there's also a Setting Sun stance (AFB at the moment but I don't know the exact one) that gives you the ability to, IIRC, initiate one boost or counter a round and not have it "count" against your "one swift action a round" limit. It barely counts, but it's a way of sometimes getting more than one swift action a round. Technically. Please don't smite me.
Tempest Stormwind 08-11-07, 05:07 PM	Relax, I don't smite. But if they weren't swift actions, even if they were 1/round, you'd be able to cast a Quickened Spell and then a Swift spell, or an Immediate spell and then a quickened spell next round, or do something else other than cast a spell that's a swift action (say, initiate a counter). Except the moment the swift action was introduced, Quicken was no longer free. You can't have both. Pre-swifts, the best you could do without using spells that granted more actions (Haste being obvious choice from 3.0) was two per round. Post-swifts, the best you can get without similar spells is two per round (swift+standard). Post-immediates, you could still only get two per round, but every so often you could decide to steal from the future and use a third in one round (at the cost of only one the next round). That's mostly, 99% true, but there's also a Setting Sun stance (AFB at the moment but I don't know the exact one) that gives you the ability to, IIRC, initiate one boost or counter a round and not have it "count" against your "one swift action a round" limit. It barely counts, but it's a way of sometimes getting more than one swift action a round. Stance of Alacrity, Diamond Mind 8, and it doesn't give you extra swifts at all. Rather, it says that your first counter of the round doesn't count as an immediate action. Thus, you could counter an attack and cast Feather Fall in the same round, for instance. It's more a matter of changing action types rather than granting additional swifts. If it granted additional swifts, you could use it for multiple boosts, for instance. Which would lead to even sicker Spank the Monkey builds (even though that was recently shot down on the WRT front).