Abjuration specialist... Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil [Archive] - Wizards Community

Abjuration specialist... Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Simontastic
05-05-07, 02:29 PM I have to create a new character for a campaign (as mine died).

The player who was playing the party's mage is also leaving town so I'm gonna go from a barbarian/cleric to a mage.

This is a standard 25 points buy campaign, with less than average wealth for now but we're gonna catch up soon.

I was thinking of making an abjuration specialist after seeing the initiate of the sevenfold veil prestige class and wondered if anyone had any ideas for classes or prestige classes that could work well with that.

I was thinking of finding a way to make abjurant champion fit somewhere in there to go with the abjuration specialist thing but realized the requirements for entry were a bit hard to get for a wizard without fighter levels.

So, here I am, asking for ideas for spells, classes, prestige classes etc. to fit with the idea.

Thanks in advance!
kalstrand
05-05-07, 04:13 PM Master Specialist in Complete Mage
forsaken1111
05-05-07, 05:13 PM For an abjuration specialist I would recommend:

Wizard 3/Master Specialist 8/Abjurant Champion 2/Master Specialist +2/Wizard +5

That gives you the master specialist's scholl esoterica and it automatically quickens and extends ALL of your abjuration spells for free, no level adjustment. It also increases your shield spell's AC bonus by +2 along with any other abjuration spell which grants a shield or armor bonus to AC.

Insert feats as you wish, the only feats you require is Spell Focus (abjuration) before 4th level, and Combat Casting sometime before 11th.

If you must work in Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil, you could do Wizard 3/Master Specialist 6/Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil 2/Abjurant Champion 2/Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil +7.

Personally I've never understood the attraction of that class. Its neat but not all that helpful.

Alternatly you could tack on initiate at the end instead of dead wizard levels.

Wizard 3/Master Specialist 8/Abjurant Champion 2/Master Specialist +2/Initiate +5
Einvaldurinn_mikli
05-05-07, 06:51 PM Personally I've never understood the attraction of that class. Its neat but not all that helpful.

The Intiate is quite possibly the most powerful Wizard prestige class ever published. It's either it or the Incantatrix.
forsaken1111
05-05-07, 08:20 PM The Intiate is quite possibly the most powerful Wizard prestige class ever published. It's either him or the Incantatrix.

Really? Huh, well I'll take your word for it. I don't play straight casters often so my knowledge of how to trick them out is limited. Still, I think the Abjurant Champion build above is pretty solid. Having automatically quickened/extended all of your primary school's spells is nice, and its full caster progression too so you don't miss even one level.
windscar18
05-05-07, 08:42 PM Initiate is powerful, indeed, but I wouldn't exactly call them the best. It's very difficult to force anyone to pass through the warding ability, so it's most useful as a standoff tactic. Still, it's damn useful.

As for Abjurant Champion, I personally dislike it, but I do recognize that it is also pretty damn solid. It's nice to have such a high AC and be able to fight decently.
forsaken1111
05-05-07, 08:45 PM Initiate is powerful, indeed, but I wouldn't exactly call them the best. It's very difficult to force anyone to pass through the warding ability, so it's most useful as a standoff tactic. Still, it's damn useful.

As for Abjurant Champion, I personally dislike it, but I do recognize that it is also pretty damn solid. It's nice to have such a high AC and be able to fight decently.

Well yes, but here I was just using it for the auto-quicken and extend abilities. If you're an abjuration focused caster, those two are a godsend.

If you want more melee power you can take more levels of the champion, but I don't think thats what the original poster intended.
Einvaldurinn_mikli
05-05-07, 08:48 PM Initiate is powerful, indeed, but I wouldn't exactly call them the best. It's very difficult to force anyone to pass through the warding ability, so it's most useful as a standoff tactic. Still, it's damn useful.

It's not so much force them to pass through, as it is, make it so painful for them to reach you that taking care of the tattered husk that emerges is a piece of cake.

The Veils also make incredible defenses from other spellcasters. What with either forcing them to counter your Veil(which was raised with an immediate action on his turn, thus foiling one of his actions) or have their effectiveness reduced dramatically. I mean come on, look at the last two veils and then tell me with a straight face that they aren't pure awesome.(You can even have both at the same time)
windscar18
05-05-07, 10:45 PM Well, yeah. : P
Osedox
05-06-07, 02:00 AM Well yes, but here I was just using it for the auto-quicken and extend abilities. If you're an abjuration focused caster, those two are a godsend.

If you want more melee power you can take more levels of the champion, but I don't think thats what the original poster intended.Auto Extend, but with only 2 levels of Abjurant Champ you can only quicken 1st level abjurations.
My reccomendation is Abjurer3/Master Specialist6/Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil7/Master Specialist+4, Abjurant Champion is nice, but i think it is more worthwile for a Gish. If you wanted to use it you could do an elf Abj3/MS6/IotSV7/Abjurant Champ4, but then your out a feat, and some nice Master specialist abilities.
forsaken1111
05-06-07, 08:01 AM Auto Extend, but with only 2 levels of Abjurant Champ you can only quicken 1st level abjurations.

Good catch, so just take one level to make them all extended. Still helpful! : )
Osedox
05-06-07, 09:53 PM Good catch, so just take one level to make them all extended. Still helpful! : )True, but that last level of Master Specialist has a bigger benifit, IMHO.
Nausicaa
05-07-07, 12:59 AM The Intiate is quite possibly the most powerful Wizard prestige class ever published. It's either it or the Incantatrix.

You're totally right. The IoSV was the unique character to remain alive in a freaking-hard campaign i made.. it was nearly impossible to kill, and made his party harder to kill. A 100% useful character.. expecially coupled with master specialist.. i'd suggest the simple Wiz 3/MSpecialist 6/IoSV 7/MS +3/Archmage 1
Simontastic
05-07-07, 12:58 PM I don't have complete mage yet... is the prestige class worth the cost of the book? can someone give me an idea of what it does?
windscar18
05-07-07, 03:35 PM The Abjurant Champion? It's probably in contention for the most powerful wizard/fighter prestige class ever printed. It gets a bonus to any abjuration spell that grants armor or shield bonus to their AC, equal to their class level (assuming that you cast both, that's about +10 to their AC there), and it gets all sorts of neat abjuration stuff. At it's max level (5), it then can use its base attack for its caster level, which is not bad at all. Still, it's not as powerful as a full caster though -_-.
AllisterH
05-07-07, 03:43 PM The Abjurant Champion? It's probably in contention for the most powerful wizard/fighter prestige class ever printed. It gets a bonus to any abjuration spell that grants armor or shield bonus to their AC, equal to their class level (assuming that you cast both, that's about +10 to their AC there), and it gets all sorts of neat abjuration stuff. At it's max level (5), it then can use its base attack for its caster level, which is not bad at all. Still, it's not as powerful as a full caster though -_-.

Um, how not? It gets full spellcasting so it is at the least equal to a core only wizard/sorceror. Not as powerful as the initiate but definitely at least the equivalent of non-PrC wizard.
Derren S.
05-07-07, 03:48 PM The IoSV is a very good class especially in a Fr Campaign when you can take Reactive Counterspell. Pick a low power ward (imo orange is good) and take the spell which is used to counter it together with Reactive Counterspell. Now whenever a enemy tries to destroy your ward you can counterspell it (not to mention that Gust of Wind in this case is not a very common spell). And with Double Warding you can have an additional high level ward (indigo) which is indestructable unless the enemy destroys the orange one.

Kaleidoscopic Doom is probably one of the best wizard, cleric or druid killer in the game. And the most powerfull combination, indigo/violet, protects you from nearly anything. Ranged attacks, spells and any melee attacker has to make two will saves, one against confusion and one against random planeshifting.
Simontastic
05-07-07, 04:42 PM heh, I'm an idiot, I should have mentionned it in my earlier post, but I was more thinking of master specialist...

I'm pretty much thinking of going with Wiz 3 / Master Specialist 6 / IotSFV 7 / Master Specialist 4 if the prestige class is any good.

I'm playing tonight but my DM is lenient with these things I can start the character and change a few things later when I get the book to meet the pre-requisites.
Osedox
05-07-07, 05:03 PM heh, I'm an idiot, I should have mentionned it in my earlier post, but I was more thinking of master specialist...

I'm pretty much thinking of going with Wiz 3 / Master Specialist 6 / IotSFV 7 / Master Specialist 4 if the prestige class is any good.

I'm playing tonight but my DM is lenient with these things I can start the character and change a few things later when I get the book to meet the pre-requisites.Complete Mage is my favorite suppliment in a long time. It has several things which IMHO make it good. Ultimate Magus, Master Specialist, and Abjurant Champion all make it worth it.

Master specialist is a class that any specialized wizard can take as his fourth level. It gives several abilities for each magic school, depending on your speciality.
SirGeshko
04-23-08, 08:44 AM I'm pretty much thinking of going with Wiz 3 / Master Specialist 6 / IotSFV 7 / Master Specialist 4 if the prestige class is any good.

I'm jumping into a defunct thread, but on the off chance you're not at 10th level yet...
Might I recommend staying in MS until 7th level before hopping into IoSV? The ability to shrug off the partial or half effect's for ALL saves (Evasion +) is nothing to sneeze at.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Simontastic 05-05-07, 02:29 PM	I have to create a new character for a campaign (as mine died). The player who was playing the party's mage is also leaving town so I'm gonna go from a barbarian/cleric to a mage. This is a standard 25 points buy campaign, with less than average wealth for now but we're gonna catch up soon. I was thinking of making an abjuration specialist after seeing the initiate of the sevenfold veil prestige class and wondered if anyone had any ideas for classes or prestige classes that could work well with that. I was thinking of finding a way to make abjurant champion fit somewhere in there to go with the abjuration specialist thing but realized the requirements for entry were a bit hard to get for a wizard without fighter levels. So, here I am, asking for ideas for spells, classes, prestige classes etc. to fit with the idea. Thanks in advance!
kalstrand 05-05-07, 04:13 PM	Master Specialist in Complete Mage
forsaken1111 05-05-07, 05:13 PM	For an abjuration specialist I would recommend: Wizard 3/Master Specialist 8/Abjurant Champion 2/Master Specialist +2/Wizard +5 That gives you the master specialist's scholl esoterica and it automatically quickens and extends ALL of your abjuration spells for free, no level adjustment. It also increases your shield spell's AC bonus by +2 along with any other abjuration spell which grants a shield or armor bonus to AC. Insert feats as you wish, the only feats you require is Spell Focus (abjuration) before 4th level, and Combat Casting sometime before 11th. If you must work in Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil, you could do Wizard 3/Master Specialist 6/Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil 2/Abjurant Champion 2/Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil +7. Personally I've never understood the attraction of that class. Its neat but not all that helpful. Alternatly you could tack on initiate at the end instead of dead wizard levels. Wizard 3/Master Specialist 8/Abjurant Champion 2/Master Specialist +2/Initiate +5
Einvaldurinn_mikli 05-05-07, 06:51 PM	Personally I've never understood the attraction of that class. Its neat but not all that helpful. The Intiate is quite possibly the most powerful Wizard prestige class ever published. It's either it or the Incantatrix.
forsaken1111 05-05-07, 08:20 PM	The Intiate is quite possibly the most powerful Wizard prestige class ever published. It's either him or the Incantatrix. Really? Huh, well I'll take your word for it. I don't play straight casters often so my knowledge of how to trick them out is limited. Still, I think the Abjurant Champion build above is pretty solid. Having automatically quickened/extended all of your primary school's spells is nice, and its full caster progression too so you don't miss even one level.
windscar18 05-05-07, 08:42 PM	Initiate is powerful, indeed, but I wouldn't exactly call them the best. It's very difficult to force anyone to pass through the warding ability, so it's most useful as a standoff tactic. Still, it's damn useful. As for Abjurant Champion, I personally dislike it, but I do recognize that it is also pretty damn solid. It's nice to have such a high AC and be able to fight decently.
forsaken1111 05-05-07, 08:45 PM	Initiate is powerful, indeed, but I wouldn't exactly call them the best. It's very difficult to force anyone to pass through the warding ability, so it's most useful as a standoff tactic. Still, it's damn useful. As for Abjurant Champion, I personally dislike it, but I do recognize that it is also pretty damn solid. It's nice to have such a high AC and be able to fight decently. Well yes, but here I was just using it for the auto-quicken and extend abilities. If you're an abjuration focused caster, those two are a godsend. If you want more melee power you can take more levels of the champion, but I don't think thats what the original poster intended.
Einvaldurinn_mikli 05-05-07, 08:48 PM	Initiate is powerful, indeed, but I wouldn't exactly call them the best. It's very difficult to force anyone to pass through the warding ability, so it's most useful as a standoff tactic. Still, it's damn useful. It's not so much force them to pass through, as it is, make it so painful for them to reach you that taking care of the tattered husk that emerges is a piece of cake. The Veils also make incredible defenses from other spellcasters. What with either forcing them to counter your Veil(which was raised with an immediate action on his turn, thus foiling one of his actions) or have their effectiveness reduced dramatically. I mean come on, look at the last two veils and then tell me with a straight face that they aren't pure awesome.(You can even have both at the same time)
windscar18 05-05-07, 10:45 PM	Well, yeah. : P
Osedox 05-06-07, 02:00 AM	Well yes, but here I was just using it for the auto-quicken and extend abilities. If you're an abjuration focused caster, those two are a godsend. If you want more melee power you can take more levels of the champion, but I don't think thats what the original poster intended.Auto Extend, but with only 2 levels of Abjurant Champ you can only quicken 1st level abjurations. My reccomendation is Abjurer3/Master Specialist6/Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil7/Master Specialist+4, Abjurant Champion is nice, but i think it is more worthwile for a Gish. If you wanted to use it you could do an elf Abj3/MS6/IotSV7/Abjurant Champ4, but then your out a feat, and some nice Master specialist abilities.
forsaken1111 05-06-07, 08:01 AM	Auto Extend, but with only 2 levels of Abjurant Champ you can only quicken 1st level abjurations. Good catch, so just take one level to make them all extended. Still helpful! : )
Osedox 05-06-07, 09:53 PM	Good catch, so just take one level to make them all extended. Still helpful! : )True, but that last level of Master Specialist has a bigger benifit, IMHO.
Nausicaa 05-07-07, 12:59 AM	The Intiate is quite possibly the most powerful Wizard prestige class ever published. It's either it or the Incantatrix. You're totally right. The IoSV was the unique character to remain alive in a freaking-hard campaign i made.. it was nearly impossible to kill, and made his party harder to kill. A 100% useful character.. expecially coupled with master specialist.. i'd suggest the simple Wiz 3/MSpecialist 6/IoSV 7/MS +3/Archmage 1
Simontastic 05-07-07, 12:58 PM	I don't have complete mage yet... is the prestige class worth the cost of the book? can someone give me an idea of what it does?
windscar18 05-07-07, 03:35 PM	The Abjurant Champion? It's probably in contention for the most powerful wizard/fighter prestige class ever printed. It gets a bonus to any abjuration spell that grants armor or shield bonus to their AC, equal to their class level (assuming that you cast both, that's about +10 to their AC there), and it gets all sorts of neat abjuration stuff. At it's max level (5), it then can use its base attack for its caster level, which is not bad at all. Still, it's not as powerful as a full caster though -_-.
AllisterH 05-07-07, 03:43 PM	The Abjurant Champion? It's probably in contention for the most powerful wizard/fighter prestige class ever printed. It gets a bonus to any abjuration spell that grants armor or shield bonus to their AC, equal to their class level (assuming that you cast both, that's about +10 to their AC there), and it gets all sorts of neat abjuration stuff. At it's max level (5), it then can use its base attack for its caster level, which is not bad at all. Still, it's not as powerful as a full caster though -_-. Um, how not? It gets full spellcasting so it is at the least equal to a core only wizard/sorceror. Not as powerful as the initiate but definitely at least the equivalent of non-PrC wizard.
Derren S. 05-07-07, 03:48 PM	The IoSV is a very good class especially in a Fr Campaign when you can take Reactive Counterspell. Pick a low power ward (imo orange is good) and take the spell which is used to counter it together with Reactive Counterspell. Now whenever a enemy tries to destroy your ward you can counterspell it (not to mention that Gust of Wind in this case is not a very common spell). And with Double Warding you can have an additional high level ward (indigo) which is indestructable unless the enemy destroys the orange one. Kaleidoscopic Doom is probably one of the best wizard, cleric or druid killer in the game. And the most powerfull combination, indigo/violet, protects you from nearly anything. Ranged attacks, spells and any melee attacker has to make two will saves, one against confusion and one against random planeshifting.
Simontastic 05-07-07, 04:42 PM	heh, I'm an idiot, I should have mentionned it in my earlier post, but I was more thinking of master specialist... I'm pretty much thinking of going with Wiz 3 / Master Specialist 6 / IotSFV 7 / Master Specialist 4 if the prestige class is any good. I'm playing tonight but my DM is lenient with these things I can start the character and change a few things later when I get the book to meet the pre-requisites.
Osedox 05-07-07, 05:03 PM	heh, I'm an idiot, I should have mentionned it in my earlier post, but I was more thinking of master specialist... I'm pretty much thinking of going with Wiz 3 / Master Specialist 6 / IotSFV 7 / Master Specialist 4 if the prestige class is any good. I'm playing tonight but my DM is lenient with these things I can start the character and change a few things later when I get the book to meet the pre-requisites.Complete Mage is my favorite suppliment in a long time. It has several things which IMHO make it good. Ultimate Magus, Master Specialist, and Abjurant Champion all make it worth it. Master specialist is a class that any specialized wizard can take as his fourth level. It gives several abilities for each magic school, depending on your speciality.
SirGeshko 04-23-08, 08:44 AM	I'm pretty much thinking of going with Wiz 3 / Master Specialist 6 / IotSFV 7 / Master Specialist 4 if the prestige class is any good. I'm jumping into a defunct thread, but on the off chance you're not at 10th level yet... Might I recommend staying in MS until 7th level before hopping into IoSV? The ability to shrug off the partial or half effect's for ALL saves (Evasion +) is nothing to sneeze at.