Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Hell_Bane 01-01-05, 01:19 AM	What's the use for a Monk to use weapons? They end up doing much more damage with their bare fists anyway...
Vorel-Aurixsveargith 01-01-05, 02:17 AM	They have the advantage of adding a different type of damage, and can be enchanted. This means that while your hands will be more powerful at some point, the advantage of enchaments can balance this. Unless you use certain feats your hands are bludgeoning weapons, and can't be enchanted (for the most part). Also there is no real penalty with using monk weapons, since you can interchange unarmed strikes and monk weapon strikes in a flurry of blows. One question I have on the Sai is why they have it listed as bludgeoning, seems to me it should be bludgeoning or piercing considering what it is.
Dracoulis The Phyrexian 01-01-05, 02:42 AM	Also, no matter how hard you try, you're not very likely to get Silver or Cold Iron fists. Well, barring some very bizarre (and likely painful) 'modifications.'
Vorel-Aurixsveargith 01-01-05, 04:50 AM	I had an avarial with mercurial fists. :D The DM agreed that since Avarials have hollow bones I could have the bones of my hands partially filled with mercury. If however, I ever had my fists broken I would have to make a pretty high fort save or go insane and then die due to the posion. :P
MetalGemini 01-01-05, 09:29 AM	Also, no matter how hard you try, you're not very likely to get Silver or Cold Iron fists. Well, barring some very bizarre (and likely painful) 'modifications.' Actually, there is a feat in Races of Stone that allows the character to treat unarmed strikes as cold iron. :D Painful? not really. Otherwise, Vorel covered most of it. Only other thing I can think to add is when attacking things with abilities like Heat, where unarmed strikes would also hurt you if you touched them. Then the melee weapons would let you attack still and even use flurry without worrying about taking damage every time you do damage.
Red_Decker 01-01-05, 10:00 AM	AH, the age old question. 'Should a monk fight armed?' A few points have been touched upon but I feel I should submit my view point. From a RP pov the character might carry weapons based on schools and style. Mechanics pov, weapons are easier to enchant and don't take up item slots that might be needed for something else. i.e. amulet of natural armor, periapt of wisdom. Weapons allow the character different types of damage, when fighting skeletons you want bludgeoning but zombies slashing is prefered. System wise it's all about flavor. In Eberron Monks can fight with swords, spears, and 2bladed swords as monk weapons with proper feat selection of course. Plus a weapon of defending can boost an already potent AC at mid to high levels. Funny story, playing 18th level characters and when adding up ac I forgot to add the base 10 to ac and I still had the highest AC of the group. 47 after correction. http://www.geocities.com/customsmiliesbyswordmaster/inthered.txt
Kulthos 01-01-05, 02:52 PM	What's the use for a Monk to use weapons? They end up doing much more damage with their bare fists anyway... Monks should use greatswords or polearms with reach when they can only make one attack and flurry when they can make full attacks. Monk weapons are useful when they are flaming, shocking, etc.
(Psi)SeveredHead 01-01-05, 03:29 PM	Monks have a low BAB, so a cheap enchanted weapon is very useful. IMO monk unarmed damage should be lower (say max 1d10) but carry an actual enhancement bonus. Even if you could only use it a certain number of minutes per day.
Vorel-Aurixsveargith 01-01-05, 03:32 PM	The problem with your suggestion is that Monks are not proficient with great swords or pole arms. At early levels that -4 is really gonna hurt. And taking proficiency in those weapons would cost a feat, which would be better spent on other things. Use an unarmed striked: +9 +Str Bonus, 2d6+Str Bonus Damage Or With A Great Sword +9 +Str Bonus -4, 2d6+1.5 Str Bonus Damage So you are sacrificing a 20% increase in chance to hit, for a .5 x Str Bonus extra damage. Now if that same 12 level monk wanted to sacrifice that much accuracy for extra damage, use power attack. A -4 on the to hit = +4 damage, which would be like having a strength modifier of +8! Better than the greatsword!
tiluvias99 01-01-05, 03:38 PM	of course, by the RAW monks aren't proficient with their unarmed strikes either... but always carry a glaive or other reach weapon if you are a monk. you dont even have to attack with it at all, just use it so you can make AoOs against all opponents within 10 feet.
Vorel-Aurixsveargith 01-01-05, 03:57 PM	Reading the rules as I am...and you might think differently. This all comes from page 139 of the 3.5 PHB. Not quoting exactly...: An Unarmed Attack is a type of attack (Like ranged or melee) It is not counted as armed unless you are a monk...etc, in which case it is "armed" for the purposes of making AoO. An unarmed strike deals non-lethal damage. Now the quote... Dealing Lethal Damage: You can specificy that your unarmed strike will deal lethal damage before you make your attack roll, but you take a -4 penalty on your attack roll because you have to strike a particularly vulernable spot to deal lethal damage. If you have the Improved Unarmed Strike feat, you can deal lethal damage with an unarmed strike without taking a penalty on the attack roll. (PHB 139) So in a sense everyone is proficient with unarmed strikes that deal non-lethal damage. Anyone with the Improved Unarmed Strike feat is proficient with dealing lethal as well as non-lethal. They worded it differently but the penealty is the same. In a sense Improved Unarmed Strike is similar to "weapon proficieny [unarmed]".
Hell_Bane 01-01-05, 04:30 PM	One question I have on the Sai is why they have it listed as bludgeoning, seems to me it should be bludgeoning or piercing considering what it is. Historically, many sais were not pointy (as in piercing) since their main use was disarming. Still, there were also pointy sais, so I think you could allow a monk to choose between a piercing sai or a bludgeoning sai, but not both. If your sai is piercing, then you cannot do bludgeoning, since the weapon was never meant to be used to strike with it's side.
Vorel-Aurixsveargith 01-01-05, 04:39 PM	Okie, that makes sense. I'm not much of an expert or anything on Asian weaponry.
Red_Decker 01-01-05, 05:31 PM	Historically, many sais were not pointy (as in piercing) since their main use was disarming. Still, there were also pointy sais, so I think you could allow a monk to choose between a piercing sai or a bludgeoning sai, but not both. If your sai is piercing, then you cannot do bludgeoning, since the weapon was never meant to be used to strike with it's side. At the same time a fairly common method for striking was with the pommel. So, I could see having it piercing or bludgeoning but not both at the same time. http://www.geocities.com/customsmiliesbyswordmaster/inthered.txt
questionc 01-01-05, 10:48 PM	The enhancement bonus to hit on a magic weapon is generally worth more than the damage bonus. Arguably, the money saved from not owning an enhanced weapon could be better invested, but still, at least there is feasably some point to having a magic weapon. Comparison of Monk Armed vs Unarmed... (Dam is based on average roll, and assumes a 1d6 weapon). Lvl1, no difference Lvl 2, no difference Weapons upgrade Lvl 3, +1 Att +1Dam Armed Unarmed Ugrade Lvl 4, +1 Att Armed Lvl 5, +1 Att Armed Lvl 6, +1 Att Armed Lvl 7, +1 Att Armed Unarmed Upgrade Lvl 8, +1 Att Armed vs +1 Dam Unarmed Lvl 9, +1 Att Armed vs +1 Dam Unarmed Weapons Upgrade Lvl 10, +2 Att Armed Lvl 11, +2 Att Armed Unarmed Upgrade Lvl 12, +2 Att Armed vs +1.5 Dam Unarmed Lvl 13, +2 Att Armed vs +1.5 Dam Unarmed Weapons Upgrade Lvl 14, +3 Att Armed vs +.5 Dam Unarmed Lvl 15, +3 Att Armed vs +.5 Dam Unarmed Lvl 16, +3 Att Armed vs +.5 Dam Unarmed Weapons Upgrade Lvl 17, +4 Att +.5 Dam Armed Weapons Upgrade, Unarmed Upgrade Lvl 18, +5 Att Armed vs +.5 Dam Unarmed Lvl 19, +5 Att Armed vs +.5 Dam Unarmed Unarmed Upgrade Lvl 20, +5 Att Armed vs +2.5 Dam Unarmed
RatFlail OF DOOM!!!! 01-01-05, 11:14 PM	this is where ECS come in. Serpent strike. Meheheheheheheheh u can make AoO with ur fist and ur spear and flurry from 10 feet away!
RatFlail OF DOOM!!!! 01-01-05, 11:22 PM	Ive played two monks. A ranged monk in FR and a spear monk in Eberron. Monk weapons can have enhancements which will come in use. Can u say vorpal flaming kamas with flenzing strikes.
-Defiler of Souls- 01-02-05, 12:04 AM	1). fists cant be enchanted by noral methods(exception being the kensia) 2). unarmed attacks have no off hand ttacks, monk weapons often do 3). fists rarely come in adamantium, cold iron, or silver 4). special monk weapons can do slashing or piercing damage 5). some monk special weapons can give bonuses to trip and/or disarm 6). special weapons can be targetted by certain arcane/divine spells that improve melee weapons 7). flavor 8). flensing strike from eberron campaign setting
Vorel-Aurixsveargith 01-02-05, 03:17 AM	The comparison for monk weapons vs unarmed had a few hiccups, one of which was the fact the damage die of the unarmed strike continues to increase. Now there is no reason you can't use both. One advantage of using monk weapons is that you can use unarmed strikes as well as monk weapons during a flurry of blows. As for the slashing damage, I believe there are either feats or just naturally the strike can become slashing at some point. And while it cannot overcome cold iron damage reduction, at 16th level they are considered adamantine.
Red_Decker 01-02-05, 05:30 PM	Monk weapons don't have an off hand penalty. Magic can affect their fists the same as weapons. Of course weapons can be important for RP reasons as well. Unarmed strikes can be use when weapons aren't available. http://www.geocities.com/customsmiliesbyswordmaster/inthered.txt
SmiloDan 01-02-05, 07:57 PM	In 3.5, Power Attack with 2 handed weapons got a big boost, and quarterstaffs became monk weapons. Granted, you can't flurry and benefit from the 2 handed weapon power attack in the same round, but that Power Attack has saved my party's bupkiss when were fighting earth elementals with DR 10/-.
(Psi)SeveredHead 01-03-05, 09:48 AM	Monk weapons don't have an off hand penalty. Magic can affect their fists the same as weapons. No it can't. Have you ever cast greater magic weapon on a monk? You have to cast it on both hands, both feet, both knees, his forehead... The magic items that enhance unarmed strikes kind of suck for monks, too (and are way too good for my favorite race, the thri-kreen).
Vorel-Aurixsveargith 01-03-05, 03:37 PM	I asked this earlier but no one ever actually answered it. Does a monk's unarmed strike damage continue to progress beyond 20th level. The Epic Level Handbook says it doesn't increase beyond 16th level, and I guess in 3.0 it didn't. But in 3.5 it most decidedly does. The progression seems apparant to me. (1 step every 4 levels) Thoughts?
Pinky's brain 01-03-05, 04:52 PM	2). unarmed attacks have no off hand ttacks, monk weapons often do The official faq disagrees. 3). fists rarely come in adamantium, cold iron, or silver Gauntlets do, although you will obviously have to give up flurry. 6). special weapons can be targetted by certain arcane/divine spells that improve melee weapons A monk's unarmed strike specifically allows these kinds of spells to be applied too.
solbergb 01-03-05, 05:56 PM	Adamantium Kama is nice until you are 16th level for sundering/door removal Silver Kama is cheaper than Silversheen Cold Iron Kama is much easier to access than a feat in a races book Any Kama is nice against zombies You can drop a kama if you fail your trip and countertrip roll. Having 3 kamas on belt or in hand protects your stuff when you roll a "1" on the fireball save (well, except for your cloak and headband. Oh well) Sai can be hurled if you drop the nearby guy with your early flurry attacks and still have another target close but not in 5' step range. It does a touch more damage than shuriken. Nunchuck can accept the "Spikes" spell. Enough said. Quarterstaff can accept shillelagh oil or spikes spell, and is a 2-handed weapon if you only get one attack and/or want to power attack past something. A monk doesn't want to invest a fortune in his weapons compared to his overall equipment, but a moderate investment in monk weapons can help get the most out of his flurry attacks and can be very helpful for overcoming DR.