About the Dread Necromancer... [Archive] - Wizards Community

About the Dread Necromancer... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Zalakhiel
05-22-07, 03:49 PM It says in Heroes of Horror tha the DN can learn a new spell of the Necromancy school via Advanced Learning, choosing from the Cleric and Wizard list. My question is, can I choose a spell that Clerics can cast but have access ONLY as a Domain spell? (The spell I have my eyes on is Eternity of Torture from BOVD...)

Thanks in advance!
windscar18
05-22-07, 05:04 PM I'm pretty sure you CAN NOT do this, but I could be wrong.
Crimson_Concerto
05-22-07, 09:18 PM Tough one, but I'm inclined to say no, simply because it implies that the intention is that you pick a necromancy spell from the cleric or wizard list, and exclusive Domain spells aren't on the cleric list. That'd be my ruling anyways, but it's probably something you shoudl ask your DM, since it doesn't specifically say, at least not where I can see...
Magius_Rerecros
05-23-07, 12:23 PM Hmm.... Well, last time I checked, the Domain spell lists are NOT the same as the Cleric spell list OR the Sorcerer/Wizard spell list, so I'm inclined to stamp this with a big fat no.
Mr.$mith
05-23-07, 12:59 PM I'm leaning towards yes, and only if its a necromancy spell as thats what the ability says it can do. Also you got to remember a lot of the stuff from BoVD is pretty powerufl stuff so just run it past your DM too.
Magius_Rerecros
05-24-07, 12:24 PM Hmm... Let's look at this, shall we?

Advanced Learning (Ex): At 4th level, the Dread Necromancer can add a new spell to her spell list, representing the result of her personal study and experimentation. The spell must be a cleric or wizard spell of the necromancy school and cannot be <blah blah blah>
(bolded for effect)

Domain spells are NOT 'cleric' spells. They're effectively an additional spell list that the cleric just happens to have access to. If Domain spells were the same as Cleric spells, they would have just put them under the Cleric spell list instead of coming up with a whole new set of lists that probably took forever to work out. Now, this is just my take on this. If someone finds something that proves me wrong, by all means, go with it. I'm just sayin' is all...
Arcane Guyver
05-24-07, 01:00 PM I'd recommend picking up the 'Extra Spell' feat if you really want the spell as an option. If it doesn't work out for you, retrain it.
Zalakhiel
05-24-07, 04:52 PM I see... I was afraid I wouldn`t be getting that spell... :(
Oh well, thanks for the info! :)
Nykidemus
05-25-07, 05:59 AM I honestly dont think it's out of the spirit of the ability. Run it by your DM, the worst that could happen is he says no.
risner
05-25-07, 08:18 AM My question is, can I choose a spell that Clerics can cast but have access ONLY as a Domain spell?

Absolutely not.

A domain only spell is not on the cleric spell list until it is taken as a domain by a cleric. So by it's very definition (backed up by the PHB and the FAQ) it is not a cleric spell.

Not being a cleric spell, prevents you from selecting it via Advanced Learning.

I'd recommend picking up the 'Extra Spell' feat if you really want the spell as an option. If it doesn't work out for you, retrain it.

Extra Spell can't do anything for a DN, they already know all the spells on their spell list so there are no spells to snag with Extra Spell (which is limited of course to their class spell list.)
Arcane Guyver
05-25-07, 11:53 AM Extra Spell can't do anything for a DN, they already know all the spells on their spell list so there are no spells to snag with Extra Spell (which is limited of course to their class spell list.)

Was there eratta or a FAQ ruling on this that I missed? Because the feat gives no such limitations.
Magius_Rerecros
05-25-07, 11:35 PM I didn't see anything about it in the Errata, so either I missed it or it's in FAQ, or he's just making an assumption. Personally, as the feat describes no such limitations, I'd say go with the feat and hope to god that your DM allows it to work.

Of course, this assumes that you're at least epic level, as Extra Spell specifically states that the level of the spell you gain can be no higher then the highest level you can cast - 1. You can't cast 10th level spells until epic, and Eternity of Torture is a 9th level spell. And a pretty mean one at that.
risner
05-25-07, 11:42 PM Was there eratta or a FAQ ruling on this that I missed? Because the feat gives no such limitations.

FAQ since there was nothing to errata (the text of the PHB and the Extra Spell feat is clear and not printed incorrectly.)

The feat doesn't provide for selecting spells from alternate lists. Core rules (PHB) prohibit spell casters from selecting spells from alternate lists unless specifically spelled out they are allowed to do so. Extra Spell absolutely does nothing of this sort.
Arcane Guyver
05-26-07, 07:04 PM FAQ since there was nothing to errata (the text of the PHB and the Extra Spell feat is clear and not printed incorrectly.)

I guess this is one instance where "dummy text" would go a long way. The last sentence in the feat description makes it sound like it works differently. "...Extra Spell is generally used to learn a specific spell that the character lacks access to and would be unable to research." That, combined with the fact the character is dropping one of their seven feats to learn one spell would normally suggest a lightening of restrictions. But your adjudication of the feat sounds fine to me.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Zalakhiel 05-22-07, 03:49 PM	It says in Heroes of Horror tha the DN can learn a new spell of the Necromancy school via Advanced Learning, choosing from the Cleric and Wizard list. My question is, can I choose a spell that Clerics can cast but have access ONLY as a Domain spell? (The spell I have my eyes on is Eternity of Torture from BOVD...) Thanks in advance!
windscar18 05-22-07, 05:04 PM	I'm pretty sure you CAN NOT do this, but I could be wrong.
Crimson_Concerto 05-22-07, 09:18 PM	Tough one, but I'm inclined to say no, simply because it implies that the intention is that you pick a necromancy spell from the cleric or wizard list, and exclusive Domain spells aren't on the cleric list. That'd be my ruling anyways, but it's probably something you shoudl ask your DM, since it doesn't specifically say, at least not where I can see...
Magius_Rerecros 05-23-07, 12:23 PM	Hmm.... Well, last time I checked, the Domain spell lists are NOT the same as the Cleric spell list OR the Sorcerer/Wizard spell list, so I'm inclined to stamp this with a big fat no.
Mr.$mith 05-23-07, 12:59 PM	I'm leaning towards yes, and only if its a necromancy spell as thats what the ability says it can do. Also you got to remember a lot of the stuff from BoVD is pretty powerufl stuff so just run it past your DM too.
Magius_Rerecros 05-24-07, 12:24 PM	Hmm... Let's look at this, shall we? Advanced Learning (Ex): At 4th level, the Dread Necromancer can add a new spell to her spell list, representing the result of her personal study and experimentation. The spell must be a cleric or wizard spell of the necromancy school and cannot be <blah blah blah> (bolded for effect) Domain spells are NOT 'cleric' spells. They're effectively an additional spell list that the cleric just happens to have access to. If Domain spells were the same as Cleric spells, they would have just put them under the Cleric spell list instead of coming up with a whole new set of lists that probably took forever to work out. Now, this is just my take on this. If someone finds something that proves me wrong, by all means, go with it. I'm just sayin' is all...
Arcane Guyver 05-24-07, 01:00 PM	I'd recommend picking up the 'Extra Spell' feat if you really want the spell as an option. If it doesn't work out for you, retrain it.
Zalakhiel 05-24-07, 04:52 PM	I see... I was afraid I wouldn`t be getting that spell... :( Oh well, thanks for the info! :)
Nykidemus 05-25-07, 05:59 AM	I honestly dont think it's out of the spirit of the ability. Run it by your DM, the worst that could happen is he says no.
risner 05-25-07, 08:18 AM	My question is, can I choose a spell that Clerics can cast but have access ONLY as a Domain spell? Absolutely not. A domain only spell is not on the cleric spell list until it is taken as a domain by a cleric. So by it's very definition (backed up by the PHB and the FAQ) it is not a cleric spell. Not being a cleric spell, prevents you from selecting it via Advanced Learning. I'd recommend picking up the 'Extra Spell' feat if you really want the spell as an option. If it doesn't work out for you, retrain it. Extra Spell can't do anything for a DN, they already know all the spells on their spell list so there are no spells to snag with Extra Spell (which is limited of course to their class spell list.)
Arcane Guyver 05-25-07, 11:53 AM	Extra Spell can't do anything for a DN, they already know all the spells on their spell list so there are no spells to snag with Extra Spell (which is limited of course to their class spell list.) Was there eratta or a FAQ ruling on this that I missed? Because the feat gives no such limitations.
Magius_Rerecros 05-25-07, 11:35 PM	I didn't see anything about it in the Errata, so either I missed it or it's in FAQ, or he's just making an assumption. Personally, as the feat describes no such limitations, I'd say go with the feat and hope to god that your DM allows it to work. Of course, this assumes that you're at least epic level, as Extra Spell specifically states that the level of the spell you gain can be no higher then the highest level you can cast - 1. You can't cast 10th level spells until epic, and Eternity of Torture is a 9th level spell. And a pretty mean one at that.
risner 05-25-07, 11:42 PM	Was there eratta or a FAQ ruling on this that I missed? Because the feat gives no such limitations. FAQ since there was nothing to errata (the text of the PHB and the Extra Spell feat is clear and not printed incorrectly.) The feat doesn't provide for selecting spells from alternate lists. Core rules (PHB) prohibit spell casters from selecting spells from alternate lists unless specifically spelled out they are allowed to do so. Extra Spell absolutely does nothing of this sort.
Arcane Guyver 05-26-07, 07:04 PM	FAQ since there was nothing to errata (the text of the PHB and the Extra Spell feat is clear and not printed incorrectly.) I guess this is one instance where "dummy text" would go a long way. The last sentence in the feat description makes it sound like it works differently. "...Extra Spell is generally used to learn a specific spell that the character lacks access to and would be unable to research." That, combined with the fact the character is dropping one of their seven feats to learn one spell would normally suggest a lightening of restrictions. But your adjudication of the feat sounds fine to me.