Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Elven Doritos 01-09-05, 01:01 AM	The first in a series of similar posts, feel free to comment. The Balance, by Nothlias Rubra (c. 170 RA) [The basis of Naturalism and Rubrinism] ---In Noting the Absolution--- All life is governed by Three Principles confined within one ideology. This doctrine, hereafter named in proper as “The Balance,” is a necessary and sound assessment of the natural world. ---In Noting the 1st--- If, upon the instance a life is taken, an Ally of Nature is directly responsible, unless the case in question is in the intent of predation, it is only Right and Proper that a life be created. ---In Noting the 2nd--- The Axioms of Good and Evil, in addition to those of Law and Chaos, are present simultaneously in and of nature, and as such, Nature’s Allies must be diligent in their efforts to represent all beliefs in equal value. ---In Noting the 3rd--- Thus, the various Ladies and Lords of this natural world shall be honored of Equal and Balanced proportion, regardless of, but keen to, their differences as such. ---In Reflection--- Whereupon this Doctrine is believed and extolled shall the Blessings of The Balance be bestowed, in accordance to the study and veneration of our natural world. ---In the Bestowment--- Sono Isto Ieb Some of the above text is for flavor, and the dates and names are from my homebrew. This is a philosophy I wrote up for some NPC druids and rangers, but feel free to critique it.
Bladesinger Boy 01-09-05, 02:07 AM	Heh, I'll fire off a few and see how they hit the mark. THE DUAL TRUTHS OF THE BALANCE One shall act and think with the freedom to serve their own truth. One shall act and think with the justice to serve others truths. One shall think and see with the wisdom to become all truths. One shall act and know with the courage to preserve all truths. One shall be collaborative and synergistic when the many persue one truth. One shall be independant and philosophic when the one persues many truths. One shall realize the infinite multitude of truth. One shall realize the singular unity of truth. All earthen things grow and shall be let do so. All earthen things die and shall be let do so. Suffering is a lost battle of the mind. Happiness is a won battle of the mind. (is it obvious I'm a Buddhist?) ;)
Zitchas 01-09-05, 02:16 AM	Looks like a prettty good text for True Neutral Druids/Rangers. Depending on how you want to portray them, a pretty good creed for all Druids/Rangers, although some may follow their concience/heart to emphasise different facets (neutral good druids, for example, may focus on helping nature, whereas neuntral chaotic ones may focus on killing those who would harm nature) Druids, and to a lesser extent Rangers, have an inherant dilema: They're intrinsincly tied to nature, which is TN, and tend to match it's philosophy. On the other hand, many have other beliefs that, while not counter to True Neutrality, don't follow it as absolutly. (the shades of neutral)
Elven Doritos 01-09-05, 02:20 AM	The purpose of this particular philosophy was to display a true neutral aspect of druid philosophy. Within the next week or so, I plan on posting a druidic tenet for each of the branches of neutrality, as well. And as for the dualistic additions, all i have to say is, "Yes!" That's the kind of stuff I was trying to hit upon, and I'll definitely add that to the Balance philosophy sheets.
Reticent 01-09-05, 02:39 AM	I tend to envision/portray Druids as pragmatic animists. It's a great fit, except in FR where they're kind of shoehorned into specialty priests of specific nature dieties. Animism is a perfect fit for just about all of a Druid's abilities and spells.
angryman 01-09-05, 10:14 AM	The Axioms of Good and Evil...are present simultaneously in and of nature...Nature’s Allies must be diligent in their efforts to represent all beliefs in equal value. Do you believe that evil is an inherent part of nature? Or good? It must at least in part contain an element of self-motivation and conscious choice to commit an evil or a good act. A lion killing a baby is not evil, it's acting on instinct which, imo, can never be evil, since it is not consciously motivated, it just acts according to programmed instinctual.
Nani? 01-09-05, 11:52 AM	I don't think I like to have quite as spelled out unless you have players which are so reletively clueless that they shouldn't play a druid (or a Paladin for example) in the first place. To be a druid is to know hoof, horn, claw intimately. It is to know that tragedy, pain, selfish actions teach us valuble lessons. It is to know that joy and pain come are each a part of life. It is to know that the civilization, for all it's achievements, is something that will pass, perhaps after doing great damage to the web of life. All of these things are easy to use words but it is the experince that makes a druid a druid. Most of all, being a Druid is to know in ways that just doesn't have words. All the Best, Nani?
Zitchas 01-09-05, 01:15 PM	All very true. But note, is the gryphon on high or the dragon in the depths of the mountains any less a part of the natural world that the lion or hawk? There are varying degrees of inteligence, some more so, some less so, than others. And some are most deffinitly intligent enough to comprehend and act in manners other than those they are instinctively conditioned to do.
Elven Doritos 01-09-05, 09:05 PM	I don't think I like to have quite as spelled out unless you have players which are so reletively clueless that they shouldn't play a druid (or a Paladin for example) in the first place. That wasn't the point, really. The point of this is to flesh out an NPC ideal that if players wanted to take interest in would be OK. It's the fundamental beliefs of one true neutral druid, and he tried to convey them through the written word. As for the Paladin line, don't paladins most often belong to churches? And don't churches almost always have dogma and written texts that they venerate? This is a similar idea, and if you don't like it, fine. It's not for you, and you have a different view on how druids work.
Nani? 01-09-05, 10:36 PM	That wasn't the point, really. The point of this is to flesh out an NPC ideal that if players wanted to take interest in would be OK. It's the fundamental beliefs of one true neutral druid, and he tried to convey them through the written word. I guess I misunderstood your intent, I thought you were trying give a "dogma" to Druids. Personally I think a better route to go would be to describe what Druid goes through "pre-game" so that they get an understanding of what is to be a Druid. As for the Paladin line, don't paladins most often belong to churches? And don't churches almost always have dogma and written texts that they venerate? Yes, they do. But if they only have text, it's pretty hollow. The purpose of any divine spellcaster is to "make those words flesh" whether spoken or unspoken though thier example. Think of the real world example of people who attend services but lack insight into what the words of thier religion mean and generally do a spotty job of exemplifying those ideals. Now compare this to people who are exemplers of thier ideals, whether Mother Theresa or The Dali Lama. These people have an intuitive (wisdom based) understanding and have internalised the ideals to the extent that they can live up to those ideals to thier best understanding. In game, a Paladin or Druid has this type of understanding and this is what is hard to put into words. In the case of the mundane and the exemplers, both have the text, the dogma. The difference it the dedication to those ideals and the personal insightthey get from trying to live up to those ideals. It is a passion, and it is very hard to make another person understand such a passion. Certainly, you can't use words directly. That is why I'm saying a player who can't "get" this religous mindset for either a Paladin or Druid, both of which have strong "non-mundane" motives, would be better off playing something less exotic like a fighter or a rogue. This is a similar idea, and if you don't like it, fine. It's not for you, and you have a different view on how druids work. And that's fine too. My intent was not to offend. All the Best, Nani?
Elven Doritos 01-09-05, 10:59 PM	My attempt was to create a portion of the religious texts that others would interpret individually. It's supposed to be one of the religious texts that is the basis, not the interpretation, of a certain sect of druidic faith.
Nani? 01-09-05, 11:46 PM	My attempt was to create a portion of the religious texts that others would interpret individually. It's supposed to be one of the religious texts that is the basis, not the interpretation, of a certain sect of druidic faith. Fair enough, Flavor wise though, I don't think a Druid would have a religous text. Historically, the Druids distrusted words and only used a simple alphabet (Ogham: A cousin to the better known Runes) which was used in spellcraft or for simple messages but not for anything really important like lore. Everything was memorization or experince. In these ways they resembled something between a Shaman and Cleric, with the organization of a "church" and the one on one training individual--initiation of a Shaman. What we know of Druids historically comes from Roman sources and what creapt into Catholic practice (private confession for example) from the "Celtic" Church of the 500-900's that Patrick created. BTW a good piece of fiction is "Druids" by Morgan Lywellen, about the Roman conquest of Gaul from a Druid's perspective. The first chapter in particular is a very good "druidic mentality" piece on it's own. A good book about the "Celtic" Church and the Druidic influence I talked about is "How the Irish Saved Civilization" by Thomas Cahill. Very readable even if you don't generally like "history". I tend to envision/portray Druids as pragmatic animists. It's a great fit, except in FR where they're kind of shoehorned into specialty priests of specific nature dieties. Animism is a perfect fit for just about all of a Druid's abilities and spells. Very well put, and very undogmatic. All the Best, Nani?
Ancient Wyrm 01-10-05, 12:53 AM	I've always had a bit of a problem with "strong" or "active" neutrality or whatever you choose to call it, the doctrine of actively attempting to preserve a balance between the extremes of alignment. It jars my suspension of disbelief, for several reasons: Item: So neither Good nor Evil, Law nor Chaos, can be allowed to win? Why? A balance of power can produce the worst of both worlds: take a gander at the horror of World War I. Item: Good fights for Good to bring about a better world. Evil fights for Evil because it expects to come out on top. Why does Neutral fight? Item: Some radical Balancists are described as fighting with both sides on different occasions. But after a few such performances, why would anyone trust such a being, be he druid or mighty goateed Greyhawk archmage? (Possibly a bad example; no one does trust the big M.) I'm going to second the notion that nature is neutral not because it represents all alignments in balance (the alignment system is such that being in balance means being poised for mutual destruction), but rather because it's too stupid to be anything else. An absence of good/evil/law/chaos, not these quantities in equal amounts. Obad-Hai is just a silly old man who reads way too much into these things, and Ehlonna's much closer to the right idea. Those who selflessly seek to protect and nurture the forests and the cute furry woodland creatures are good. True neutral druids are the hermit types, who don't work to conserve the natural world but just live in it, like the animals. They may act to save their forest, but it's because that's their home.
Elven Doritos 01-10-05, 10:12 PM	And people thought there was no interest in druids anymore. Well, I suppose I'll post a neutral good druid's response to the above Balance, and subject it to your criticism. The Five Extensions to the Natural Doctrine, by Miliardo Teron (915 RA) To the Ladies and Lords of Nature, I give unto thee my being. To the friends and animals of Nature, I give unto thee my life. To the blighters and the unnatural, I give unto thee my wrath. It has become necessary, in the course of nature’s adaptation to the present circumstances, to note The Balance to be more sophisticated than previously thought. Upon discovering this notion, the original Three Principles of Cycling, Axioms, and Veneration are but a trio of the octet that governs all natural life. In addition to the aforementioned governing principles, the natural Balance of Life is essential. A Dark Balance exists as well, an unfortunate but necessary cycle of undeath. The Cycle of Succession is a ruling force of the Balance unlike any other; however, it is mostly maintained by non-interaction. Also, the protection and defense of these principles is a task that is proven to be necessary for their duration. Whereupon these principles are considered fallible, the Doctrine of Adaptation is worthy of defense. A delicate Balance transpires between the natural predator and prey, apparent through the fluctuations of numbers in effect with each other. It therefore holds true that all beings are dependent on all others for life to exist. A shadow of this Balance, known tentatively as the Dark Balance, exists to bring contrast to the natural world. The world of the supernatural is necessary for the definition and existence of the natural to be possible. The Cycle of Succession is a complex process that involves the clearing and repopulation of an existing territory. If the need arises for a reduction of an area’s population, it will happen in one form or another, as is Nature’s Law. Thus, it is necessary to allow nature to run its course, and any true Ally of Nature is to observe and preserve the sanctity of this Cycle. The Defense of the Cycle of Succession, and of the octet in general, is a task to be fulfilled at all times, and a commitment that requires unfaltering resolve. It is a vital role in the natural world to fulfill, and it is the All of Nature’s place to take up this task. In any event that proves that Nature is unable to abide by any of this laws, it is Nature’s way to shift and change to Adapt to the circumstance. Any of the octet can be disabled to maintain the sanctity of the Balance. Sono Isto Ieb.
Elven Doritos 01-11-05, 09:47 PM	:bump: